Now Germany started ww2, and the blank cheque pretty much pushed Austria into starting ww1.
Now I don't believe you can blame politics for everything since after all it's the common man who fights the war, and if he refuses to fight, there is no war. So why were the German people so willing to fight two long world wars? Clearly the generals knew that a quick victory was a pipe-dream and that both conflicts would escalate into long wars and that even a victory would be at a massive loss of life. Yet they went to war.
I've lived and traveled in Germany quite a bit, and they're awfully nice people. They're also great at building states, companies, and organizing things - after all, they're the biggest European country in population size. But that's just that. They lack culture. Everybody has a notion of French culture, Italian culture, Greek, British, Spanish, Russian, Austrian culture. But what is German culture? Nobody knows. What's a German movie? What's German fashion? How does a German city look like? What's German cuisine?
What defines the German nation? Some gigantic reproductions of Greco-Roman art? If you asked a German "what is your nation best at?", he couldn't give you an answer. Every other European nationality could, be it yet so comical.
You see, and this is why I think they started the world wars, to have something to be recognized by. Basically a "notice me senpai". Now this may sound "pulled out of my ass", but it isn't. I've researched many of finer (cultural) points, but won't list them for brevity's sake.
So what's your opinion on this? Please post only if you have an educated opinion, and you're not some kind of redneck or /pol/tard.
German inferiority complex
Eternal kraut love to ruined everything
Funny fact
Poland's territory is increased everytime Germany waged a war.
German movie Das Boot
German fashion Hugo Boss
German city look like old and new
Sausages, potatoes asparagus, shrimps on toast, bread, beer
What is your nation best at football
>>894085
t. Adolf
They wanted their place in the sun.
>>894095
is true.
>>894044
you're plebtrash, sorry
>>893849
Germany gave Austria the blank cheque because they foolishly assumed that Austria could get anything done in a short amount of time
With the world looking unfavorably on the Serbians after the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, Austria would have been rather justified in invading Serbia in retaliation (or rather, countries would be less willing to aid Serbia) and Russia's mobilization hadn't begun nor had their land technologies caught up enough with Austria and Germany that they could efficiently cobble together an army to raise resistance if Serbia had been invaded in the timeline that Germany thought Austria would take
The Kaiser also didn't believe anything world-wide in warfare would happen, hence why he took a three week vacation where he couldn't be reached, showing how confident that they believed WW1 wouldn't happened.
What happened is Austrian incompetence and indecision, and that is what resulted in WW1, and ultimately set the stage for WW2.
The Germany nation is an amalgamation of the unification of the various German countries of the Holy Roman Empire. That is their definition. You don't need to be "best" at anything to be of note, Germany happened to be top tier at a lot of things (not necessarily the best, mind you) and they became a giant economic powerhouse despite being a relatively young nation.
WW2 can be seen as a continuation of WW1, so really the question boils down to the causes of WW1
so this >>894324
Germans did not start ww1
>>894324
>Holy Roman Empire
voltaire.jpg
Cause Germany was the last big nation to be consolidated in Europe, before WWI Germany was still the new kid on the block, causing a shift in the power dynamics of Europe. Other nations were worried about Germany's growing power and Germany was worried about getting gangbanged by everyone since they were right in the middle of Europe, so there was a lot of anxiety all over the place.
Plus no one thought WWI would be long, they all thought they would go out, shoot each other in their lines or whatever antiquated strategy they had and have a jolly good time for a little while then it would be over. The advancements in technology pretty much took everyone by surprise.
>>893849
>If you asked a German "what is your nation best at?", he couldn't give you an answer.
Are you referring to the commoner on the street? As with any nation, they know little of their society's strengths. It is the men of industry who will proudly return an answer, palavering on about their efficiency and quality of production of high-end consumer goods from electrical to automotive.
While they do not produce the world's highest quality consumer goods, save for bespoke innovations, I believe it is the nation's strong suit.
Isn't it pretty much universally accepted that Germans make the best cars, and that they also have the most competitive and versatile industries?
Sure is better than making the best waffles or DIY furniture like other European countries
The assumption that the common man is allowed any say in who his nation does or does not go to war with -particularly in non-democratic states -is inherently flawed.
Why did Germany start two world wars? Well WW1 was a big misunderstanding, a little thing that got out of hand and snowballed. WW2 then was basically bitterness over WW1.
Relatedly, I'm really curious as to how Europeans are educated in regards to the roles the Allied powers played in creating the circumstances in WW2. As an America, in school we were taught that Woodrow Wilson pushed for a treaty at Versailles that wasn't very hard on the Germans, but that Britain and France wouldn't hear any of it and insisted that Germany get assfucked. Do British/French educations of Versailles put the blame on themselves, or do they similarly point the finger at the other powers?
>>893849
>movie
In Nacht und Eis
>fashion
Prussian dress and Nazi uniforms are iconic as fuck.
>city
Industrial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-m9A8mY-U0
>cuisine
Kraut. Horseradish. Dark breads. Sausage. Beer.
>what is your nation best at
Music and literature. Their composers were some of the most famous and renown in all the world from 1700's and on. Their literature and folklore is very well known, Siegfried to name one.
I know you'll just call me /pol/ since that's what all the other autistic redditors do, but take a suggestion: fuck off and read a book
>>894428
Danish ww1 history goes pretty much like this:
> everyone is militaristic as fuck, everyone wants the war
> Stalemate
> Russia leaves, America and Italy enter
> France highly revanchistic
> Britain wants weak Germany
> America works hard to secure lasting peace
> Wilson has a major headache over the French and his own congress
> Wilson has a stroke, the whole thing becomes a disaster
> stage is set for ww2
>>893849
They thought they could win.
>>894428
>Well WW1 was a big misunderstanding, a little thing that got out of hand and snowballed. WW2 then was basically bitterness over WW1.
no
>>894428
At my school we were taught it went like this, America sets out 13 articles wanting independence for tonnes of little countries as they thought this prevents big wars, but don't want massive burdens on Germany as they don't want another war, partly influenced by the amount of Germans in America
England wants moderate reperations so that England is the best superpower and thus can remain neutral, major reason England joins France instead of Germany is because Arms race of dreadnoughts between the two and also u boats, but due to Wilhelm being related to English monarchy lenient charges
French just want Germany dead, Clemenceau had seen the Germans invade before and didn't want it happening again so was the major pusher for limiting army to 100,000 or something, also wants alsas-lehraine back as Bismarck stole it in the last Franco-German war.
Russians telling everyone about the Bret-Litvisk treaty gets France and England even more incensed as they thought similar things would happen to them if they had lost the war
Japan also partly to blame because they get all the former German colonies which stops Germany being good at trading
It all fails because Wilson and clemanceau are two old men who can't compromise, and also congress dosent ratify the treaty as such the now major power isn't impeding Germany so it could recover as quickly
In conclusion Americas fault
Source British education
Germany has a long history of doing some cool shit for a while before looking at all of its neighbors and saying "Fuck you people." under its breath.
>>894546
>Japan also partly to blame because they get all the former German colonies which stops Germany being good at trading
British education really tells you that those shitty Pacific islands Japan got was what made Germany "good at trading"?
>>894546
>Russians telling everyone about the Bret-Litvisk treaty gets France and England even more incensed as they thought similar things would happen to them if they had lost the war
The British had nothing to fear but the German Post War Plan was to Turn France and Belgium into a Vassal and take all of their colonies plus Portugals Colonies in Africa
>So why were the German people so willing to fight two long world wars?
Nationalistic feelings, fueled by propaganda and pride.
You are looking at this question the wrong way, by trying to look at today's Germany, while the situation has changed oh so much.
A lot of the time, the conditions and situation one is in explain why that person thinks or does a certain way.
Only after WW1 Germany became extremely divided in terms of politics. It's not like Germans were either a nazi or apolitical. Communist party hated the national-socialist party and vice versa, socialist party had trouble working together with the communist party, Jews were getting the fault by many because a lot of Jews were in the government, etc. etc.
In the end, mostly nazi's went into the war (ww2) willingly.
The only prominent cultural reason I can think of that played an important factor into getting Germans to head into war, is propaganda. Along with that, the cultural points that gave them those nationalistic feels.
>>893849
German culture died 1945, that's why you can't find it
>>894413
>Isn't it pretty much universally accepted that Germans make the best cars
Thats Japan
>>893849
Adolf Hitler the Greatest Story Never Told is a good place to start, OP!
>>893849
This is bait right?
>>894782
GSNT is a great documentary, and a great place to start if you never want to be taken seriously in any WW2 discussion.
>>894770
*within Europe, I should have said.
Besides, Japanese cars are for poorfags
>>894413
Fun fact: The thing about the car is mostly post WWII. American was dominating the mass market so Porsche etc. decided to make high class cars Ford wasn't covering. I know a guy who wrote his thesis about this.
>>894429
>In Nacht und Eis
Directed by a Romanian (and Austrian).
A military uniform is not fashion. Sausage and Beer is not cuisine. I read many German books, and while they do have some great literature, it's no greater than that of other big nations. /pol/ or not, you're stupid.
>>895399
This post literally defies logic.
>>894547
This. Germans are passive aggressive and two-faced as a people.
>>895449
How does it defy logic? Because you disagree with it?
>>895453
Literally look up the definition of cuisine and fashion retard. The literature argument is just your opinion too. You're forgetting philosophers like Kant and Nietzsche.
>>895460
I'm not even the guy you replied to, but how fucking dense are you that you can't understand his extremely simple and obvious point?
>>893849
>But what is German culture?
Tons of important poets, philosophers and scientists were from germany.
Goethe, Schiller, Hesse
Kant, Niezsche, Wittgenstein, Heidegger, Hegel, Marx, Leibnitz, Frege, Husserl, Feuerbach, Stirner
Einstein, Schrödinger, Heisenberg, Planck, Helmholtz
To name a from the top of my head
German bread is very different from bread you get in other european countries.
There are special cakes like Schwarzwälder kirsch torte
stuff like cattle roulades, potato dumplings and various types of cabbage are typical for german cuisine. Also schnitzel.
Germany also has interesting card games, like Schafkopf, Skat and Doppelkopf.
>>894462
Swedish ww1 history:
>We found ourselves in an era of poverty and butthurt over Norway
>WW1 starts
>Britain is BBEG
>British trade blockade caused famine and widespread starvation in Sweden
>the englishmen are the reason your great grandparents had to eat bark and coffee powder
>unfair treaties pushed by the anglo-saxon makes Germany want to kill people again
>>895641
>Tons of important poets, philosophers and scientists were from germany.
And even more were from France.
I won't repeat the point for you, if you're unable to understand it just don't post.
>>894870
>Infiniti
>for poorfags
>Nissan
>for poorfags
>VW
>not for poorfags
btw Japanese companies, especially Toyota, have extremely efficient production and distribution.
>inb4 weeb
>>895453
>food and drinks are not cuisine
>clothes are not fashion
>>893849
>German culture? Nobody knows.
Just because you don't know doesn't mean that nobody knows. Christ.
>>894844
Why?
>>894324
/thread
>>895690
>And even more were from France.
More philosophers than from Germany? Nigger please. Not to mention that hardly anyone can name a French composer of note. The most famous one is probably Chopin and that's a Pollack.
>>895847
I still agree with your point, but Debussy was a pretty GOAT French composer. Also OP is either clinically retarded or Australian.
>>893849
Is this a joke?
>>895847
>More philosophers than from Germany?
There were countless philosophers on both sides. In sheer prominence of scientists/mathematicians/philosophers France outperforms Germany easily. If you can't figure this by yourself, you shouldn't post here anyway.
>>896399
Italy has everything Germany has, and more
France has everything Germany has, and more
Britain has everything Germany has, and more
>>895847
Alkan
>>896811
Germany has the most influential philosophers and the best mathematicians though
>>896811
If you look at influence: Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Hegel, and Kant outperformed France. All 4 of them also came from about the same time period, when Germany was a larger empire.
They are the founders of a specific style of warfare. You have to realize one thing and one thing only. No nation or military strategist is crazy enough to kill 100m people or order the killing of 100m people. There are two important resources one acquires through war, land and people. So one may ask, what about the survivors? And when that question arises the survivors welfare is up for debate. This is where foreign investments come in and hard working domestic laborers play. This is why even though they lost wars they havent lost their spirit of progress. We are not in a feudal state and many people forget that. The stability of this world revolves around jobs. And they knew that. Even hitler knew it. No one can say otherwise in an international court. War is not about killing of millions for vengeful purposes. Or to stop the progression of a state but to neutralize the one aspect of a culture everyone seems to blame.
>>896811
>In sheer prominence of scientists/mathematicians/philosophers France outperforms Germany easily.
You must be truly delusional if you actually believe that.
>>897016
You overdosed on memes my friend. You cherry-picked one single period in 2000 years when Germany had great philosophers - a national identity that doesn't make. That they were outplayed so hard by Descartes, Montesquieu, Voltaire and Rousseau, that all intellectuals in Germany spoke French, you conveniently ignore.
>>897041
No, just well read.
>>897012
>Germany has the best mathematicians
Fields Medals France: 12
Fields Medals Germany: 1
>>893986
interwar Poland was slightly bigger senpai
>>894360
>Plus no one thought WWI would be long
nonsense
plenty of people including for example the british leadership were wary of a prolonged conflict that would take several years at least
the "home by christmas" meme is literally that, a meme
>>893849
>Implying the common man can refuse to fight
You do realize that refusing to serve when conscripted can lead to imprisonment or execution, right? At least in those times it could.
And actually, the first world war was believed by many of the military elite to be over before christmas of the first year, but eventually the battles would drag on and take longer and longer until trenches became more sophisticated and then the western front stagnated. No one saw it coming, but trench warfare was necessary to prevent the enemy forces from advancing any further. Many generals were out of touch with the reality of what modern war would bring. British didn't adopt the machine gun widely until after the Germans showed how effective it was to them... Austrians and French didn't have grenades at the beginning. French uniforms were bright red and easy to see. Many soldiers didn't have helmets. Much had to be learned the hard way.
>>898883
well, no, if you think about it battles used to be decisive and mobile. Also, there hasn't been a major conflict among world powers in a long time before the great war.
>>898896
and if you think about the actual opinions and writings and thoughts of the people at the time - as opposed to conjuring up your feelings and assumptions - you will see that they fully realized the war could very well turn out to be several years long
haig, smith dorrien, kitchener all expressed this belief, and indeed the entire kitchener volunteers force was raised with the full knowledge that they would only take part in the conflict from, surprise surprise, 1916 onwards, that is two years after the start of hostilities and a far cry from "home by christmas" memery - which incidentally only appears in writing after 1914
even the germans acknowledged this and their economic planning underwent several changes in the years leading up to the war, going from the optimistic predictions of hoarding supplies for only nine months or a year of war to the general staff realizing the folly and calling for supplies of at least a year and a half worth, then there is falkenhayn who mentioned a war of two years, and there is haushofer who was even more cautious, warning a war might take three+ years
You know what's sad? That rabid anti-German poster is probably German.
>>895399
>Directed by a Romanian (and Austrian).
It's a German movie, doesn't make a difference who directed it, it was produced by a German company, and to all non-autistic, dumbasses it is a German movie.
>A military uniform is not fashion
You're an idiot. Napoleonic dress isn't a fashion now?
>Sausage and Beer is not cuisine
A large variety of unique sausage and a very large beer culture isn't cuisine? Well fuck me right in the ass, what arbitrary line makes French or British food a "cuisine?"
> it's no greater than that of other big nations
Are you an idiot or what? That's a 100% subjective point and you simply asked for shit Germans were good at. Nice concession and damage control you dumb nigger.
>>895690
>quantity
You asked for a list of shit they're good at, you got shit, what difference does it make if France has more? Does that diminish the quality of German shit?
>>895847
Hey, that's not fair. France has good composers too. Berlioz is goat, Charpentier and Lully too
you're a blight on this board, OP. I bet you took that little "A Brief History of Germany" video too seriously, huh? Let me guess, you saw it on reddit yesterday and indignation swelled in your autistic mind, did the German reich(s) rape your mother?
>>899052
>doesn't make a difference who directed it
Goes to show you know nothing about movies.
>you simply asked for shit Germans were good at.
No. OP:
>If you asked a German "what is your nation best at?"
You people are insufferably stupid. Not only do you not understand a point, but you insist on attacking some non-existing enemy image.
I never argued "Germany is a bad country", no one in his right mind would argue that. I argued that when the time came to form national identities (which is a recent idea, for the historically uneducated), Germany had less to work with than other big nation states. Then I presumed this might have been a reason for an aggressive foreign policy, as an urge in the German people to "prove themselves to the world".
Of course, you ignore both points, and instead go on about how "Germany had some culture after all, let me give you an example I found on Wikipedia". You are morons.
>>901453
Also, to further illustrate my point. Here's the first 5 links on "most beautiful cities in the world" that Google returns, not a single German city:
http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2016-01-08/the-50-most-beautiful-cities-in-the-world/50
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mayathebee/the-20-most-beautiful-cities-in-the-world-r9ot
http://www.ucityguides.com/cities/top-10-most-beautiful-cities.html
http://lifestyle9.org/top-10-beautiful-cities-world/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/college-tourist/10-of-the-worlds-most-bea_b_8507448.html
>>894428
I'm British, generally kids are taught that Wilson was in favour of lax terms, the Brits wanted punitive but not destructive measures and the French wanted to completely cripple Germanys ability to start another war or even maintain a functional economy.
>>893849
>Germany
>No Culture
Post 1945 Krautrock, Werner Herzog, and a lot of German artists, such as Anselm Kiefer and Georg Baselitz, Joseph Beuys, Wolf Vostell, Sigma Polka, Gerard Richter, Lupertz, Penck, Kippenberger
>>901474
it certainly doesn't help that german cities were bombed to a crisp
>>901495
Do they also teach you about British Fear of France becoming too strong if Germany was weakened too much?
>>901453
>Goes to show you know nothing about movies.
Oh, so the producer determines the nationality of a movie. Since you want to talk about the formation of national identity, movies weren't even a crucial thing in that period. Hell, movies have never been a massive cultural mark until recently
OP:
>They lack culture. Everybody has a notion of French culture, Italian culture, Greek, British, Spanish, Russian, Austrian culture. But what is German culture? Nobody knows. What's a German movie? What's German fashion? How does a German city look like? What's German cuisine?
>What defines the German nation? Some gigantic reproductions of Greco-Roman art? If you asked a German "what is your nation best at?", he couldn't give you an answer. Every other European nationality could, be it yet so comical.
Re-read that first block. You got your answer. But now, that doesn't matter because "France has more,"
>Germany had less to work with than other big nation states
The backpedaling is incredible. First off, you didn't even mention that in OP. Second, the only actual point you made was:
>this is why I think they started the world wars, to have something to be recognized by
>>901474
What point? Because 5 rather shitty websites in the 21st century didn't list a german city, that means the Germans don't have culture and this is why they started World War 1 and 2, despite them not even starting the former?
Does this make you happy?
http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2014-10-20/top-25-cities-in-the-world-readers-choice-awards-2014/2
There, a German city in a list. wew lad
You're a fucking idiot. Just stop replying and save face.
>>894085
>>894107
>Teh joos made germony invade dem countries. Dey good boys, dey dindo nuffin!
>>894338
>invade a neutral country, knowing that another, more powerful country will come to help them, while launching a preemptive attack on another country
They didn't fire the first shots, but they escalated it up a dozen notches into a world war.
>>901620
Wait, wait, so you are implying that "But what is German culture? Nobody knows." is supposed to mean that "Nobody knows a single item of German culture" instead of "Nobody has such as clear perception of German culture as of the cultures in the preceding list"?
Now, not only does that make no sense in the context, but you are also assuming that somebody who has lived in Germany and Austria for years, does not know what German culture is. That's a serious case of Dunning-Kruger's I've ever seen one.
>There, a German city in a list. wew lad
"Best cities", not "most beautiful cities". You are just grabbing onto straws now. What's next, are you gonna find me some obscure blogger who claims Germany is best at everything?
>>893849
Just to start, I completely disagree that Germans lack culture. They have a very good sense of their history and culture. I also love their cuisine, personally. If you ask a German what they're best at, they know it's production and especially technologically speaking. That has been a long and important element of German history. Even in the Dark Ages, neighbouring warlords would have their weapons crafted and traded from today's Germany - the roots of craftsmanship in Germany are empirical to the nation's identity.
On that note, I also think you're completely wrong as to thinking they had an inferiority complex to which they started two wars. It's much more political and less emotional than that.
Firstly, I'd say it's important for me to declare that Germany (historically, before the last few years of embarrassing leftist immigrant enrichment) is one of my favourite countries, and that's because their history is so rich and full. I speak German at a strong beginner's level, having taken the language for over a year in school, and German friends often compliment my skills with their language even though I certainly have a long way to go.
When you look to pre-WW1 Germany, their main reason to want war was because they wanted the same imperium that France, and specifically which Britain enjoyed. Up to the start of the war and the idiocy of Wilhelm II (who thought he could 'force' Britain into an alliance with him), Germany and the states which existed prior that became Germany generally shared very good relations with Great Britain, specifically Hannover and Prussia, the former for obvious reasons, and the latter for anti-French pro-protestant ones. Germans idealized Britain and her empire - they wanted the same, and rightfully so, as they were losing the colonial race. They had few colonies whilst France and Britain enjoyed a great many.
Continued....
>>901692
...
The Germans promised their soldiers an enormous imperial glory which would come from their great victory, which was well deserved for their expanding empire! The men loved this, and fought very hard for it. It's what they thought their nation deserved, and needed.
Naturally, the years afterwards were an enormous embarrassment and it was an incredibly shameful time. Everyone felt back-stabbed and abused by their monarchy, and the country was plummeted into massive economic debt after being blamed for the entire war. Still today, I find Germany to be at no more fault than anyone else for WW1. Everyone is equally to blame - that war was so incredibly stupid and quite frankly, avoidable.
The promises of great glory were nowhere in sight, and Germany suffered a terrible economic depression until the rise of the Nazis. The Weimar Republic was problematic and weak, but the Nazis, who very much promoted and promised the same as their prior German monarchy empire, were oh so appealing to a country of embarrassment of such massive proportions. Finally, the nation, under staunch leadership and undying nationalism, would rise up and become the empire it was always meant to be - this was the will of the people who felt that they had been stamped upon and pushed around. Finally, it was their time to rise up and become a glorious empire. Essentially, from all of my own reading and studying, this was truly the reason for both wars - Nationalism. plain and simple.
I'm always saying, if there's one lesson to be learned from the wars, especially the second, it's the dangers of nationalism. Look what happened, after all.
>>901692
>>901778
This post is gushing with ignorance and Germanbooism. The culture creators in the inter-war period were all leftists.
Nationalism was the demise of Germany, leftism was the revival.
I suggest you live in Germany before your make your inane observations of Germans that visit the US. A Tanzanian has a very strong sense of his culture when he visits the US.
>The Germans promised their soldiers an enormous imperial glory
Don't you notice that you're agreeing with me?
God has not created a dumber creature on the planet than the average American.
>>894404
Not a German, but basically this. Germans are known for their discipline, punctuality and efficiency.
Too bad they get beaten on that by their small neighbors besides the punctuality part which is overrated anyways.
Greetings,
t. Jan-Kees
>>901994
Ignorance? How so?
All I attempted to do was explain from, what I've learned, why Germans wanted both wars.
I did notice that we agreed, but the way you referenced it on your OP title, presuming that you are OP, made it sound very juvenile and inane.
Also I'm not from the US, and I have been to Germany. I also dated a German girl for a few months.
>God has not created a dumber creature on the planet than the average American.
Couldn't agree more!
>>901994
Also I know tons of German culture came from the interwar period. Germans changed the fact of cinema with films such as Nosferatu and Dr Caligari, as well as with many many literary successes such as Im Westen Nicht Neues. But we weren't talking about just the interwar period, nor German culture aside. Your main point was asking for educated opinions towards the war(s), and that's exactly what I gave you.
>>902077
>I speak German at a strong beginner's level, having taken the language for over a year in school, therefore my historical opinion of Germany is more valid
fallacy #1
>When you look to pre-WW1 Germany, their main reason to want war was because they wanted the same imperium that France
>they
>the common man wants "an imperium"
fallacy #2
The last time a regent wanted something ridiculous in Europe he got overthrown.
>Still today, I find Germany to be at no more fault than anyone else for WW1
fallacy #3
Germany handed Austria the blank cheque despite knowing very well that the Serbian government wasn't responsible (the Austrian investigation concluded that themselves). Germany is just as responsible for ww1 as Austria, and nobody else. All historians (apart from some contrarian attention whores) agree on this.
>Finally, the nation, under staunch leadership and undying nationalism, would rise up and become the empire it was always meant to be
Which is exactly my point. You think killing people for "glory" is justified, I don't. But maybe you will grow up one day.
>>893849
Anyone who studies WWI or II enough comes to the conclusion eventually that the "World" part of it was mostly the British Empire and Winston Churchill's creation. They turned a flame into a conflagration. If Britain just fucked off in the first place in WWI and just let Germany annex the shitty French Europe would be doubtless the seat of the world right now, and the Empire moved to prevent mainland Europe from becoming precisely that in WWI.
>>902181
>If Britain just let Germany annexed those shitty countries like France everything would be OK. Its all Britains fault. Trust me, I study history
You know you do not sound like an intelligent person, right?
>>901778
I find Germany to be at no more fault than anyone else for WW1
hahaha
>>902164
>I speak German at a strong beginner's level, having taken the language for over a year in school, therefore my historical opinion of Germany is more valid
Oh yes, that's exactly what I said and meant! No, you fucking clown. I was merely just expressing that I find Germany to be a very interesting place, and that the area is somewhere I've dedicated me time to in academics.
>the common man wants "an imperium"
They, being the government, and then perhaps also the propagated man who would later be entrenched.
>Germany handed Austria the blank cheque
Oh my god, I had NO IDEA that Germany gave Austria military support! What a fucking new thing I learned today.
I do agree that Austria is at the high seat of responsibility, but compared to Germany they of course got away without a slap on the wrist come November 1918. It seems like you're still stuck in a world where no other nation is at all responsible and that Germany is the big ol' bad guy still. Everyone is responsible, since everyone had deadly alliances which would cap off at something slight - as it did.
>You think killing people for "glory" is justified
What the fuck are you reading? Where the hell do I say that? In no way do I think so, and I'm completely lost on to how you came to such a ridiculous conclusion. You're absolutely retarded. I certainly do not believe "killing people for glory is justified" - where did I even imply this? I was simply writing in such a style which would be understood from the perspective of the common voter here, obviously.
If anyone needs to grow up here, it's seriously you. You're attempting to nitpick the slightest shit, which I have the easiest time defending.
>>903270
>Everyone is responsible
Even Britain, who only got dragged into the conflict because of the German invasion of a neutral country?
Even France, who literally did not want war in any shape or form during the crisis?
>>903281
France was itching for a fight. They had lost significant disputed territory to Germany a few decades prior, and wanted to re-establish themselves as a powerful European nation. If you've never noticed before, worldwide military clothing changed from French style to German very quickly after the Franco-Prussian war, since Germany had taken France's place as the best soldiers of the world. Everyone started wearing pickelhaubes (or pith helmets very similarly) to imitate German military fashion. France was embarrassed, and they sure as shit wanted to participate in a war to show Germany who was boss. Saying that they did not want war is a far stretch from the truth.
I would argue that Britain too certainly is responsible. The only reason they had made their certain alliances was because the expansion of Germany threatened them, especially when you compare their industrial arms race before the war. Kaiser Wilhelm II was as much of a cousin to King George as Czar Nicholas was, yet there was an alliance with Russia (who they had previously been against in Crimea) and not one with Germany.
>>893849
You're ignorant af. German philosophy is especially well known, as well as German composers, Goethe was such a famous writer that Napoleon refused to be in the same room as him, etc.
They were the pinnacle of culture in the 19th century.
>>893849
>But what is German culture? Nobody knows.
Really?
>If you asked a German "what is your nation best at?", he couldn't give you an answer.
Did you try it? Did you try it in other countries?
How did you come to these assumptions? You're indeed just pulling this out of your ass.
>Basically a "notice me senpai".
Yeah, this sounds like a well-researched hypothesis for why the World Wars happened. Why don't you fuck off back to /b/ or /int/, mate?
>>893849
quest for world relevance.
Not bothering to read through this whole thread, but no way did the Germans push Austria into starting WWI. They had been eyeing attacking Serbia(and probably annexing it too) for a very long time and the assassination just gave them a good pretext. They went to the Germans to ask if they had their backs in the event the Russians went full crazy and backed their Serbian cousins.
Not saying the Germans don't deserve a lot of the blame of WWI, but there is often a tendency I see to portray the Austrians as half-witted stooges of the Germans. That only really became the case after WWI started and their army fell apart attacking Serbia.
>>893849
> Clearly the generals knew that a quick victory was a pipe-dream and that both conflicts would escalate into long wars and that even a victory would be at a massive loss of life.
The generals thought they could win. Especially in the early stages of WWI. In WWII they weren't expecting the invasion of Poland to be the start of a general war. After the swift victory over France, Germany was confident they could achieve a similarly fast victory against Russia.
>>893849
>and organizing things
It's not that they're more organized per se but it's easier to organize them if you understand what I mean.
It's a form of autism.
>>903525
/pol/-tier post.
>>893986
Thats not a fact. Poladnd used to be 1 milion square kilometers. Now look at it now
>>903520
Exactly. People often forget that mid-war, there was a real fear that Germany would win.
>>903438
>France was itching for a fight.
Is that why they had elected a Socialist, anti war, anti revanchist government?
Is that why they had retreated their troops several miles from the border in order not to antagonize Germany?
Is that why they urged Russia not to do anything that might provoke the Germans?
Is that why they had imposed heavy handed civilian checks and balances on the military and even prevented a proper build up of forces and mobilization during the crisis?
You literally know nothing about the issue bar incorrect "muh revanchism" memery.
>>901685
>"But what is German culture? Nobody knows." is supposed to mean that "Nobody knows a single item of German culture"
Yes. That's exactly what it connotes. You just said nobody knows what german culture is, so why would I assume that people would know german cultural items without knowing german culture.
>"Nobody has such as clear perception of German culture as of the cultures in the preceding list"?
Maybe you should have posted that instead. Again, nice backpedaling, it amazes me that you can even attempt to tend this position.
>somebody who has lived in Germany and Austria for years
Nice anecdote. I don't believe you. :^)
>does not know what German culture is
Clearly you do not because you started this thread with ignorance and idiocy.
>"Best cities", not "most beautiful cities". You are just grabbing onto straws now
It's from the same website that you listed, and this one is by users and tourists not single individuals.
>What's next, are you gonna find me some obscure blogger who claims Germany is best at everything?
What? Where did you even get this? I've been completely objective in just about everything I've said, unless you're going to tell me Mozart and Beethoven are obscure and clearly Salieri is better, or the monumental prowess of Bach is somehow dwarfed because "Italy had more."
For fucks sake, you literally need to be told that Germany has been recognized for more than just starting World Wars. Are you reddit incarnate? You make Naziboos and /pol/ look preferable
>>903604
Gah, you're right. The French cared not at all for their worldwide reputation nor their lost territory.
Nigger please. If you're going to make such claims, provide some evidence with them. I've literally never heard of any of this, and if you wish to side with it, you'd be wise to support it with indisputable facts I can read.
>>903840
If you google search "famous composers" they appear in the following order:
>Beethoven
>Mozart
>Bach
>Brahms
>Haydn
>Tchaikovsky
>Schubert
>Chopin
>Handel
>Liszt
Wagner and Mendelssohn coming in 11th and 12th most popularity.
Considering that 8 ou of the top 10 are German/Austrian, I'm inclined to agree with OP. Germans simply have no culture!
When you google "famous philosophers" many of the names too are German naturally.
OP is a fucking fag. An arrogant, ignorant fag.
>>895452
Living in Germany for 15 years from Britain I can only acknowledge this. You can see it with the "Welcome Syrian refugees" crap they spilled the last year and got whole of Europe from Greece to Austria in turmoil, which is now turning into, "Burn their fucking houses down", which will also spill in shit by making those same refugees thinking "fuck europe and the assholes inside it". Germany is the cancer of Europe, they are good workers no doubt about that, but idiotic and extremly retarded politicians. If they are not doing shit on their own and destroying Europe by straightout warfare, they are having the american dick so far up their ass that they sabotage anything that could benefit europe just by acting as subservient slaves.
>>899052
>what arbitrary line makes French or British food a "cuisine?"
Common, how can you speak of British food as "cuisine"?
>>903908
>they are having the american dick so far up their ass
Most Germans quite dislike the US though.
>>903908
Diese Aussage kannst Du sicherlich nach 15 Jahren durch Deine Sprachkenntnisse untermauern, korrekt? In meinem wie in Deinem Land gibt es tatsächlich Menschen, die unterschiedliche Meinungen vertreten. Und jedwede europäische Bestrebung zu sabotieren ist eigentlich ein englisches Phänomen.
>>903887
>Nigger please. If you're going to make such claims, provide some evidence with them.
You mean like your claims that the French were itching for a fight? :^)
>I've literally never heard of any of this,
Your lack of knowledge is not really my problem. I mean, just stop and think about it. You have entered this thread, claimed something, and now you confess to not knowing about fairly basic things, such as who was in power in France at the time.
But in the unlikely case you do actually wish to learn, you can read Fromink's Europe's Last Summer. Or Holger Herwig's The Opening of World War I. Or 1914, How the French Entered the War by Jean Jacques Becker. Or virtually any history book about WW1 because these things are not a mystical secret kept away from the unwashed masses.
Even if you don't have access to actual books, you could, you know, go on wikipedia and read a couple of articles. Such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis - well sourced throughout - or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Poincar%C3%A9 - also well sourced, especially the bits about anti revanchism, avoiding war, pulling back troops or ordering Viviani to tell the Russians to chill.
>>902181
>Britain should just have ignored its treaties with Belgium and France
>Britain should have just let Germany freely annex countries because reasons
How about Germany shouldn't have tried invading people. Do you also think we should let China take what it wants from all the disputed territories? Because that's what you sound like
>>903929
I firmly believe that's common knowledge, and not just my own opinion. I've sat through enough lectures by excellent professors who I know would agree with me.
>Raymond Poincaré
>He was noted for his strongly anti-German attitudes, and twice visited Russia to maintain strategic ties
Yeah, sounds like real pacifist. I did some decent reading of this page, and he could certainly be seen as not wanting war, but some of this just sounds outright pro-war. Like, firstly before the war he wants to improve relations with Germany, and then afterwards he's noted for thinking they French army should've been more aggressive and penetrative to Germany. Seems like a bit of a flip-flop here.
Not sure where exactly you'd want me to read with the July Crisis article. What I did pick up from it was that France firmly supported Russia the same way German supported Austria...
>>903936
>How about Germany shouldn't have tried invading people.
Are you serious?
>>903955
yes. i don't know why Britain should be under some moral obligation to stand aside, abandon her allies and treaties, and let Germany shit all over the rest of Europe
>>903951
different anon
Poincare was certainly trying to prepare France and Russia for a military confrontation, but his actual philosophy appeared to be one of deterrence not provocation. When he and Viviani traveled to St Petersburg in late July they only spoke of diplomatic solutions with Russia, and when they returned to Paris on the 29th of July they cabled the Russians telling them not to do anything to provoke German mobilization. On top of this, France deliberately remained one step behind Germany in mobilization and withdrew troops 10 kilometers from the border to ensure there were no accidents (not that it stopped the Germans from falsifying claims).
And on top of that, the socalist party (the SFIO) was opposed to any non-defensive war, and they gained in the May-June 1914 elections. The trade union federation was opposed to any war what so ever. The idea that the French were in some sort of revanchism frenzy is preposterous
>>903980
Britain shouldn't stand aside. But it should get off the high horse. The very country that has invaded all but 22 countries on this planet shouldnt be the one to point fingers for decades.
>>903951
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Poincar%C3%A9
>He wanted to strengthen both France and Russia to such a point that they presented such a decisive margin of superiority as to deter Germany from going to war with either power, but at same time his foreign policy was not relentlessly anti-German.[23]
>Although he rejected Caillaux's ideas about a Franco-German alliance, he was prepared to improve Franco-German relations on specific issues.[24]
>Despite being from Lorraine, he was not a revancharde (revanchist). He had been left with a life-long distaste for war after seeing, aged ten, horribly wounded and mutilated soldiers during the Franco-German war.
>He asserted his personality and took a special interest in foreign policy.[27] On 20 January 1914 he became the first French president to visit the German embassy in Paris, a gesture clearly meant to show that he wanted to continue his policy of trying to improve relations with Germany.[28]
>It was not until Poincaré had arrived back in Paris on 30 July 1914 that he finally learned of the crisis, and immediately attempted to stop matters from escalating into war.[37]
>With Poincaré's full approval Viviani sent a telegram to Nicholas stating: "in the precautionary measures and defensive measures to which Russia believes herself obliged to resort, she should not immediately proceed to any measure which might offer Germany a pretext for a total or partial mobilization of her forces".[38]
>Additionally, orders were given for French forces to pull back six miles from the frontier with Germany.[39]
>>903951
>>904007
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis
>Moltke argued that due to the alleged superiority of German weaponry and training, combined with the recent change in the French Army from a two-year to a three-year period of service, Germany could easily defeat both France and Russia in 1914.[73]
>Both Russia and France, because of their military weaknesses, were most disinclined to risk a war with Germany in 1914, and hence the pressure on Serbia to accede to the terms of the Austrian ultimatum.[100]
>The French Foreign Minister informed the German Ambassador in Paris, von Schoen, that France was anxious to find a peaceful solution
>The French Foreign Minister informed the German Ambassador in Paris, von Schoen, that France was anxious to find a peaceful solution, and was prepared to do his utmost with his influence in St. Petersburg if Germany should “counsel moderation in Vienna, since Serbia had fulfilled nearly every point”.[127]
>Lichnowsky wrote that the King desired that “British-German joint participation, with the assistance of France and Italy, may be successful in mastering in the interest of peace the present extremely serious situation.”[145]
> Moltke supported Falkenhayn by submitting the assessment that 1914 was a “singularly favourable situation” for Germany to go to war as both Russia and France were not prepared whereas Germany was.[150]
>In St. Petersburg, the French Ambassador Maurice Paléologue, upon learning belatedly on the night of 29/30 July of Russia's partial mobilization, protested against the Russian move.[173]
>French troops were ordered to pull back six miles (10 km) from the German frontier as a sign of France’s peaceful intentions.[188]
> Marshal Joseph Joffre of the French Army asked for permission to order a general mobilization.[192] His request was refused.[192]
ITCHING FOR A WAR YEAH
>>903998
Asking a Brit (English) to get off their high horse is like asking a Yank not to clap and eat burgers, and Aussie not to shitpost or a slav not to squat. It's not happening.
>>898890
>British didn't adopt the machine gun widely until after the Germans showed how effective it was to them
the reason the British Army didn't widely employ machine guns was doctrinal, not because they thought them ineffective. The British vision of a land war would be one of manouevre, so light, mobile infantry and rapid rifle fire were the orders of the day. Machine guns were heavy, crew-served weapons that limited tactical mobility so were not widely employed.
>>903438
>The only reason they had made their certain alliances was because the expansion of Germany threatened them
The treaty guaranteeing Belgian neutrality pre-dated German unification by 40-odd years.
>>903998
>But it should get off the high horse
there's no high horse here. Germany invaded countries that had treaties with the UK. End of story.
>>903438
As you state, they had been against Russia during the Crimea. After Napoleon was defeated anti-Russian sentiment escalated quickly in Great Britain. The Belgian treaty was done to protect against Russian involvement in the region. Belgium was harboring a proportionally large percentage of Polish revolutionaries that had fled years before. The Tsar was, of course, bitter about this and regularly voiced his desire to see the Belgian government deposed. The Treaty of London was Russian containment, not German containment.
>>904288
You make it too easy for yourself. That is the High Horse.
Poland actually wasn't on Britain's good side in the interwar period. Britain was scared that Hitler would revise more of Germany's borders and might demand German colonies back. Thus Halifax gave Poland a blank cheque which turned Polish even more anti-german and much bolder. Fun fact: Britain didn't have a problem with the USSR invading Poland.
tl;dr British doublethink at work
>>893849
>what is german culture
motherfucker have you ever read a book?
listened to music?
do you know anything about art?
had a weissbier?
been to a kneipe?
i bet you never wore a lederhösen
>>904311
I was talking about WW1
>>904322
>lederhösen
>>904340
Then your previous post doesn't make sense at all unless you're shitposting and/or are a simpleton.
>>904311
>Britain didn't have a problem with the USSR invading Poland.
Good point, often forgotten.
>>903270
Let him revel in his ignorance. If anything I believe OP is the American....
>projecting much?
Hey OP, get fucked with your mentally ill germanophobia.
>Google 'Important Quotations For A Better Understanding Of WWII + WWI'
>archive.org/download/WhatTheWorldRejectedHitlersPeaceOffers1933-1939/WhatTheWorldRejectedHitlersPeaceOffers1933-1939ByDr.FriedrichStieve.pdf
>>904923
>mentally ill germanophobia
>crash the roman empire
>crash christianity
>crash socialism with marxism bullshit
>crash marxism with frankfurt school bullshit
>ruin nationalism for everyone else following a manlet on meth and killing millions of europeas
>import millions of muslims and give turkey a free hand to europe
>blame britain for not doing enough to cooperate solving the refugee crisis they themself created
Sure germanophobia is a mental illness, fuck off retard.
>le hitler dindu nuffin he was a good boy may may
>>905121
>woop woop! dats da sound of da /pol/ice
>>905121
It is difficult to ascertain how sad your life must be if you put this much autism into your spewing of germanophobic hatred and post-war atoricty propaganda as well as vicious anti-german lies.
I feel sorry for you, i truly do. I hope you will manage to turn your life around at some point and lose your virginity, although knowing that you're a germanophobe buying into retard-tier propaganda this seems increasingly unlikely.
>>893849
>american """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""education""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>>905170
>implying german economy and rest of continental europe won't crash as soon as britain leave the eu this summer
The Eternal Kraut has always been driven by a terrible inferiority complex.
>>903840
>You just said nobody knows what german culture is, so why would I assume that people would know german cultural items without knowing german culture.
>Nice anecdote. I don't believe you. :^)
>unless you're going to tell me Mozart and Beethoven are obscure and clearly Salieri is better
Thanks for confirming that all Germanboos are embarrassingly stupid.
>>905170
>>ruin nationalism for everyone else following a manlet on meth and killing millions of europeas
>>import millions of muslims and give turkey a free hand to europe
How is that vicious anti-German lies you moron?
>>904007
>>904011
So much this.
Germanboos, back to your containment board:
>>>/pol/
>>903928
>Sprachkenntnisse
It's part of culture to, in a discussion, speak only the language that everybody else understands. So I'm sorry, but I won't oblige you (not even that guy).
Merkel has been sabotaging EU politics in the last few months, no doubt about it. Not even Seehofer or Austria agree with her anymore. She is the only one who pushes giving billions to Turkey (what for exactly?) or not closing borders despite every other EU prime minister staunchly disagreeing. And Merkel was the only one that voted for renewing the trade-embargo with Russia.
I don't know what is going on, but certainly something is. How the eternal Kraut intends to fuck over Europe this time, nobody knows.
>>905299
>not even that guy
So get lost then. This wasn't directed at you. And I don't think Mr Hatespeech needs a lawyer 8 hours later
>>903887
>google ranks Beethoven over Bach
this perturbs me
>>905244
lmao butthurt. Can't even address the points any more. So you actually think Salieri is better than Mozart? Because that's some objective wrongness right there, simply on the fact that most people wouldn't even recognize Salieri or what he did
>>905496
>Salieri
>Thinks Salieri is a measure for Italian composers because he watched some Hollywood movie
You don't know jackshit. You are dumb, as dumb can be.
>>google ranks Beethoven over Bach
>this perturbs me
Stop pretending you know anything you brainlet.
Austrians started the wars
>>903528
In my eyes it's still White Croatia
>>905613
>you don't know anything
>says the dumbass who thinks WW1 and 2 were started because of "notice me senpai"
No, I've never even watched Amadeus, I just know that he's a contemporary of Mozart. But keep replying, your butthurt could power cities.
>>893849
Because it's a nation of cattle who are easily lead into whatever the leader tells them is good.
>>905121
>>crash the roman empire
A good thing desu
>>crash christianity
Protestantism is an improvement
>>crash socialism with marxism bullshit
It was never good to begin with, and Marxism was advanced by non-Germans. Germany was the largest anti-Marxist nation of the second world war
>>crash marxism with frankfurt school bullshit
Jews and Soviets desu
>>ruin nationalism for everyone else following a manlet on meth and killing millions of europeas
Nope
>>import millions of muslims and give turkey a free hand to europe
That's true, but that's anti-German in any case
>>blame britain for not doing enough to cooperate solving the refugee crisis they themself created
Britain is plenty on board, sadly
>>906698
>implying I'm /pol/
What triggered you in any case?
>>906704
>"da joos"
>"hitler a good boi"
>>906716
This isn't a justification for any racism or ethnic discrimination, but it's pretty established that the Jewish community was pretty communist-sympathetic.
Hitler was a dickhead, but I'm sorry facts offend you.
>>906737
>but it's pretty established that the Jewish community was pretty communist-sympathetic
[citation needed]
>Hitler was a dickhead, but I'm sorry facts offend you.
In the previous post you said Hitler didn't ruin nationalism.
Anyhow, those are really fucking obvious points. Lurk more, I won't correct you and I don't care.
>>906698
>trying "to win an Internet fight"
I'm not trying to win. Someone has to put up an opposition for me to try and win :^)
If anything, it's for your benefit, maybe you won't make shitty threads in the future.
>Go read a book instead, clearly you're lacking in that department
How so? You're the only idiot who doesn't know about WW1 or 2 or composers. I like how this conversation has slowly been constrained, I had 5 points originally, but now you need to latch onto a simple comparison.
>>906528
>Protestantism is an improvement
Indeed, why be happy with one church when you can have thousands memecults istead?
>>906759
>[citation needed]
I get the feeling you just hear a notion and decide it's correct. You ever wonder what made Jews such easy targets? Jewish-Americans were at the leadership of the communist revolution in the Weimar republic, and with fascism being a reactionary ideology to Marxism and Nazism employing racialism, it laid the perfect groundwork for the holocaust.
>In the previous post you said Hitler didn't ruin nationalism.
This makes me a Nazi? My sides.
He may have ruined fascism (at least until the conditions are right for another revival), but I just personally don't think he ruined nationalism setting as how we've seen nationalist movements since then, but I guess you're too retarded to see this.
>Anyhow, those are really fucking obvious points. Lurk more, I won't correct you and I don't care.
t. Baseless Faggot
>>906779
Not all protestants are correct, but neither is the RCC. This is for another thread anyhow.
>>893849
this has to be bait
>>906797
All protestants are correct, bible is my personal colour book I'm supposed to do whatever I want.
Do you even sola scriptura?
>>898883
no they didnt. what are you even saying
>>906793
FUCK. I wrote Jewish-Americans, when I meant Jewish-Germans. That changes the tone quite a bit.
I think this should answer most of your questions about the eternal teuton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
>>906779
dude the church was hella corrupt back only a retard could defend them
>>906833
>dude the church was hella corrupt back
Indeed, that's why he married a former nun and invited german princes that liquidated church assets to his marriage.
>germans not even once
>Now I don't believe you can blame politics for everything since after all it's the common man who fights the war, and if he refuses to fight, there is no war.
This is reductionist as fuck - German citizens were not given the option to refuse service, and you're discounting the genuine ideological motivations of many German soldiers in both World Wars. Politics doesn't explain everything, but politics + universal conscription + facing an existential outside threat to the national body (the USSR), you can understand why the German people were willing to fight the second World War. Same with the first, albeit to a slightly less significant degree, since most people understood a loss likely didn't mean the dissolution of the German nation (though some feared it), but losing was still something that terrified the large, nationalistic, militaristic population of the Kaiserreich.
>Clearly the generals knew that a quick victory was a pipe-dream....
They really, really didn't. I mean obviously some people began to realize the problems in WWI in relatively short order, but it was too late - the Western front had already become a static, entrenched entity, and then the only option was to continue a conflict you hadn't really anticipated. WWII is even more absurd to mischaracterize this way - wehrmacht generals thought they could win in the early years, and they largely did. They were successful all over Western Europe and North Africa, and pushed really fucking far into Russia. They could've taken Moscow if they played their cards right. So they correctly believed they could defeat almost everyone quickly, except the Russians and the USA, where they obviously made severe miscalculations.
>What defines the German nation? Some gigantic reproductions of Greco-Roman art?
Muh simple-minded essentialism. Also you're retarded if you think you can reduce German art to "reproductions" - German culture since the Renaissance has been vibrant as fuck and German
>>906884
Cont'd
German contributions to the worlds of art, music, science, sociology, history, political thinking, and so on really can't be understated or disregarded, and they're so varied I think any attempt to pretend they represent a homogeneous, essentially "German" cultural artifice is disingenuous. There are lots of strains of Germanic thought that sometimes intersect and are sometimes contradictory, and I'd say that about any nation, because nationhood is the deliberate stitching together of semi-discrete, unique cultures that happen to share some common characteristics into a modern bureaucratic entity, not a legitimate reference to some kind of biological or inherent trait.
>You see, and this is why I think they started the world wars, to have something to be recognized by. Basically a "notice me senpai". Now this may sound "pulled out of my ass", but it isn't. I've researched many of finer (cultural) points, but won't list them for brevity's sake.
Which brings me to my main point - this is straight up fucking retarded. If you found yourself in Berlin in the 1700s you'd find yourself in the company of some of the world's finest philosophers, mathematicians and musicians. Germany has always been a dominant power in Europe, with a tremendous, influential culture. If you think one of the titans of the continent started wars to "get attention", you should just kill yourself already.
ww1-ww2 was basically pre-emptive strikes against the jews.
>>902181
This is absolutely incorrect, dude. WWII was a war driven, specifically, by ideological Nazism. It was a crusade for land and soil, for European colonial holdings, specifically located in the East. Hitler was clear that lebensraum was unequivocally an Eastern European process, that the Ukraine and European Russia would be Germany's manifest destiny, the golden, productive plains where the "Aryan" people could settle and live some kind of idealized farmer/warrior lifestyle, tending their fields and banging their fat wives, ever on duty to defend their homestead against the asiatic hordes.
If everyone had just let the French get annexed (and Poland, and Norway, and Denmark, and the Netherlands, and Austria, and Czechoslovakia, and Estonia, and Lithuania, and Latvia, and the Balkans, and Greece....), which is literally inconceivable, then they still would have faced Russia, which would have ignited a global conflict like inherently.
>>899052
>Berlioz is goat, Charpentier and Lully too
Lully being the most influential French composer, who was ironically an Italian.
>>897623
>Descartes, Montesquieu, Voltaire and Rousseau
None of them can compare to the aforementioned Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Hegel, and Kant.
>Fields Medals France: 12
>Fields Medals Germany: 1
Most of the "French" fields medals were not even handed to ethnic Frenchmen. There are even Germans among those "French" mathematicians. Just like the most famous "French" warlord is actually Italian and the most famous "French" composer is Polish.
Also, you're ignoring personalities like Gauss who shit all over any French mathematician who ever lived.
>>906793
>Jewish-Americans were at the leadership of the communist revolution in the Weimar republic
Karl Liebknecht wasn't a Jew, Ernst Thälmann wasn't a Jew, loads of other Weimar-German communist leaders weren't Jews. It's just another Nazi meme in their shitty eclectic Ideology.
>but I just personally don't think he ruined nationalism setting as how we've seen nationalist movements since then
In a way, that's correct, but the same would be true for fascism. However, you do often see politicians refraining from certain laws and practices that are considered Hitleresque, especially in Germany/Austria. They wouldn't f.e. contain the now refugees in camps (which every other country does), because of association with "concentration camps".
Oh, and he did ruin the Swastika completely.
my theory is that wilhelm shaved his mustache a little and then pretended to be a changed man after coming out of hiding
>>906884
>>906900
>politics + universal conscription + facing an existential outside threat
le "following orders" maymay
>German Generals believed in a quick victory
Have you read the Schlieffen plan you dumbass? It required a quick victory in the west, and then a campagin in the east - it never foresaw a British involvement. But a British involvement was there from the start. German high command knew it would become a trench war, and they hoped to win in the east quicker than they lost in the west. They knew it would at the loss of (at least) hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.
And as for WW2, Hitler generals believed so much in a "quick victory" that they advised Hitler to not to go to war at all! It was only by the dumbest luck and the laziness of the French that the Germans managed to win so quickly.
>because nationhood is the deliberate stitching together of semi-discrete, unique cultures
Well, some nations have more to stitch together, others have less. That's exactly my point.
>Berlin
>company of some of the world's finest philosophers, mathematicians and musicians
That would be Paris.
>>907329
>like Gauss
Gauss was great, just great. Evidently you know nothing about maths, so explaining details to you is pointless. However, suffice to say, the French had Descartes, Pascal, Laplace, Fermat, Cauchy, Poincaré, Galois, ...
"Country of Mathematics" will always be France.
>>906809
haig, smith dorrien, kitchener all expressed their beliefs that the war would be a prolonged affair, and indeed the entire kitchener volunteers force was raised with the full knowledge that they would only take part in the conflict from, surprise surprise, 1916 onwards, that is two years after the start of hostilities and a far cry from "home by christmas" memery - which incidentally only appears in writing _after_ 1914
even the germans acknowledged this and their economic planning underwent several changes in the years leading up to the war, going from the optimistic predictions of hoarding supplies for only nine months or a year of war (which still would mean the war would not be "over by christmas") to the general staff realizing the folly and calling for supplies of at least a year and a half worth, then there is falkenhayn who mentioned a war of two years, and there is haushofer who was even more cautious, warning a war might take three+ years
>be german
>try to be nice
>everybody thrashes our country
>weep
this certainly wont result in a happy ending
>>907650
>Rosa Luxemburg
>Kurt Eisner
>Paul Levi
>Franz Mehring
>Emil Barth
>Gustav Landauer
>Eugen Levine
>Karl Radek
>Emil Eichhorn
All Jews, and that's 9 of the 14 commanders and leaders of the Free Socialist Republic of Germany, the rest are associated with the ones who are.
>>907650
While certainly fascist-associated (if, even) things are repressed in the former Third Reich, nationalism is not dead.
And yah, he ruined most Indo-European terms and symbolism in the public's eyes.
>Austria starts the first one
>Austrian starts the second one
Sure is German in here.
>>904372
I was clearly talking about Belgium you utter fuckwit
>>907745
>Evidently you know nothing about maths
But I do.
>French had Descartes, Pascal, Laplace, Fermat, Cauchy, Poincaré, Galois, ...
Which all pale in comparison with Gauss.
>"Country of Mathematics" will always be France.
No, France will always be the country that surrenders as soon as a German decides to cross the border. France had its time before Germany was unified, but ever since then it's doomed to play second fiddle on the continent.
>>908053
Don't go around starting World Wars you can't win then
>>909568
>France loses to Germany in 1870 and 1940
>ergo, France is a nation of cowards that surrender at the first "angriff" they hear
I might expect this shit from /pol/ or /b/, but this is /his/ and here we're expected to know a little bit more.
>>907722
>Have you read the Schlieffen plan you dumbass? It required a quick victory in the west, and then a campagin in the east - it never foresaw a British involvement. But a British involvement was there from the start. German high command knew it would become a trench war, and they hoped to win in the east quicker than they lost in the west. They knew it would at the loss of (at least) hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides.
Not the guy you're talking to, but this is wrong - or rather, it does not characterise the situation properly.
The initial German planning believed indeed in a quick victory - or rather than believing in a quick victory it believed in certain defeat if a quick victory was not to be achieved, which was one of the reason for the rashness of the German military staff in regards to leading a war as soon as possible. They considered themselves ill-prepared in relation to their enemies, and technically not ready for a war, but feared that the situation would be even worse in the future. Planning for a quick victory is what characterises all the military planning on the continent. The French plans with their fast push towards the Rhine-Ruhr area to take the industrial heartland of Germany as well as the Russian planning was offensive too. All the continental powers knew that a lengthy war would be their ruin. Whether they realised that it would become a lengthy war and their planning was essentially denial of reality is a different question, but their planning was offensive - not with lengthy war in mind, and in that regard they must have believed it achievable or at least saw no other way.
The exception is of course the British planning, but this has less something to do with extraordinary foresight but more with the geo-strategic disposition of an island nation. To them, anything but a lengthy war would be disastrous, due to their professional army with its low recruitment rate and their tactical strengths being at sea.
>>909622
A unified Germany will always be the dominant power on the continent. The time of France is over - permanently.
>>909639
/his != /pol/
>>909568
>No, France will always be the country that surrenders as soon as a German decides to cross the border. France had its time before Germany was unified, but ever since then it's doomed to play second fiddle on the continent.
2.8 million german soldiers surrended to western allies alone
11 million total in pow camps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II#German_Prisoners_of_War
Whatever you want to use the 1939 census (79 mil) or the 1946 one (65 mil) that's about one german pow for every six or seven german including women child and pensioneer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_prisoners_of_war_in_World_War_II
>is generally recognised around 1.8 million, equivalent to around 10 percent of the total adult male population of France at the time
Go back to /pol/ you humongous retard.
Germans are like that shut-in, insecure autistic beta with inferiority complex who fapped in their basement through most of history while their normie neighbors around them thrived and built great empires. This caused a lot of beta German butthurt and thus they desperately attempted to become relevant for once by any means necessary, and lots of autism was unleashed and lots of people died
Luckily Germans were shown their place and are now beta and docile again like they should be.
>>909681
What has that got to do with the fact that France is a country that is known to surrender to Germany?
>>909703
>KC
kek
>>909665
Which is why we're talking facts rather than opinions.
>>909703
You should read more from Ludwig Woltmann on the italian renaissance, seems like the we wuz thing was pioneered by germans first and african-americans only copied it half century later.
It's cringy as fuck.
>>909568
>But I do [know something about maths]
No you don't. You're probably some high schooler or Engineering student at a CC. You've never studied group theory, complex analysis, or topology, or you would know how much more prominent French mathematicians are than German.
Other than that you're a pleb too, so >>>/pol/ .
>>909741
And if you did the same you would know how much more prominent German mathematicians are than French. Your claims are baseless.
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:German_mathematicians
>The following 200 pages are in this category, out of 385 total.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_mathematicians
>The following 200 pages are in this category, out of 267 total.
>>909741
http://fabpedigree.com/james/mathmen.htm
>1. Isaac Newton
>2. Archimedes
>3. Carl F. Gauss
>4. Leonhard Euler
>5. Bernhard Riemann
>no Frenchman in the top 5
>>909703
Get out >>>/int/
t. OP
This is a serious thread. I think that if Germany invested in art schools and built some culture once they got their economy going, instead of chimping out into world politics, they would be a lot happier, and eventually they would catch up to France and Italy.
As an example, see how many art schools (painting/sculpting/fashion/film/architecture) you will find in Germany and France/Italy/Britain respectively. The only art where Germany is on par with the other big national states is classical music, but that's just too little.
>>909797
>The only art where Germany is on par with the other big national states is classical music
How are they just on par when the majority of the most famous composers in the world come from Germany? What other country can compete? Maybe Italy and Russia, but mostly in the 19th century.
>>909804
So the whole world is biased against France?
How come in literally all of these lists where someone compiles the world's most influential mathematicians you find more German names than French?
As much as I'd like to believe your interesting opinions I fear it's rather unlikely that everyone out there is wrong and you're the only one who knows it better. It seems like Germany is ahead of France in terms of mathematical importance.
>>901631
>Russia Escalated it by mobilizing
>Austria escalated it by mobilizing/declaring war
>Great Britain escalated it by joining
Everybody "escalated" the war.
>>902164
>All historians (apart from some contrarian attention whores) agree on this.
This is the furthest from the truth there is.
Most historians agree that pointing fingers simplifies the chain of events too much.
>>903281
>Even Britain, who only got dragged into the conflict because of the German invasion of a neutral country?
Britain didn't have any obligations to defend Belgium if its neutrality was violated by a 3rd state.
>Even France, who literally did not want war in any shape or form during the crisis?
girlslaughing.jpeg
>>903604
This was because the French hadn't yet finished their army buildup
>>909815
>How come in literally all of these lists
Which lists? There is one list by one guy who admits he ranked people not by mathematical merit alone, and there are 2 Wikipedia articles that just list a bunch of people.
Like I said, if you studied maths, you would know that every 2nd name you run across in a higher maths textbook is French. Every 4th or 5th is German. Test is yourself, get a maths textbook where you understand nothing (you can download one in PDF), and then count the names only. Look up "Graduate Texts in Mathematics" if you like. That is what "influential mathematician" means.
>>909824
>nobody is ever truly responsible for something
You're on the right board m8, but the philosophy thread is elsewhere.
>>909861
>Which lists?
Lists by people, often rather knowledgeable people in the field of mathematics, who compiled the most important mathematicians. And I can guarantee you that you won't find any of these without Carl Friedric Gauss. He's a constant like Archimedes.
Cauchy, Descartes, Laplace, Galois, - all of them might be important, but are they more important than a Leibniz, Weierstrass, Riemann, Hausdorff, Cantor, Hilbert, etc.? That's debatable.
And that's my entire point.
AmiBurger here
>>893849
>What defines the German nation?
The same things as all other true nations: One People, One Language, One Clay
>"what is your nation best at?
Germans are world famous for engineering and precision manufacturing.
>what is German culture? Germany has called it self for centuries "Das Land der Dichter und Denker" or Country of thinkers and poets. This is the place that generated Martin Luther,
Goethe, Friedrich Schiller, the Brothers Grimm, Thomas Mann, Hermann Hesse, Schopenhauer, Kant, Nietzsche. Most famous classical composers are German including: Brahms, Wagner, Haydn, Schubert, Händel, Schumann, Mendelssohn Bartholdy, Johann Strauss II, Bruckner, Mahler, Telemann, Richard Strauss, Schoenberg. Even today Germany is the largest market for music in europe and 3rd largest in the world.
>What's a German movie?
Lola Rennt, Der Krieger und die Kaiserin, Der Untergang, Die Brücke, Im Westen Nichts Neues, Der brave Soldat Schwejk, etc.
>>909902
>but are they more important than...
That's a logical fallacy right there. You see, comparing "top picks" of two lists is not representative of the entire lists, especially when they are so close together. Everybody would agree that historically Brazil was a greater country at football than Italy, but in picking the top 10 players, you wouldn't find a difference.
When it comes to pre-ww1 maths, Germany was clearly the 2nd greatest country (after France). By now, Germany has fallen behind considerably of course.
It's actually quite sad when you think about it. Who knows what would've become of Germany if they didn't start two world wars. If their soldiers laid down their weapons every time Germany went to war, maybe Göttingen would still be the greatest maths uni in Europe, maybe Germany would've finally outperformed France. And Unter den Linden would be as beautiful as the Champs-Élysées.
So much beauty ruined by idiots. I swear to god, people who get involved in foreign politics in this day and age should hang from the trees.
>>895665
French ww1 history
>c'est l'Alsace-Lorraine
>nein es ist Elsass-Lothringen
>millions of deaths intensifies
>>910149
>That's a logical fallacy right there. You see, comparing "top picks" of two lists is not representative of the entire lists, especially when they are so close together. Everybody would agree that historically Brazil was a greater country at football than Italy, but in picking the top 10 players, you wouldn't find a difference.
Unlike soccer, math is not a team sport. Quantifying the number of footnotes isn't going to give you any more of an accurate picture; important are the meaningful contributions.
>If their soldiers laid down their weapons every time Germany went to war
That's what French soldiers do when Germany goes to war.
>>910570
>a high level of discourse is expected
