What would have been the outcome of the second Peloponnesian War if the ill fated Sicilian expedition would have never happened and the Athenians wouldn't have lost the bulk of their navy, leading strategoi and countless hoplites, would they have won the war?
>>892592
The war would have definitely gone on longer. However, the whole Sicilian debacle showed just how much the people of Athens could be convinced to support insane strategies, so there's no guaranteeing that the Athenians wouldn't vote for another venture just as disastrous as the Sicilian one. (I have to admit, though, the Sicilian expedition came very close to succeeding a number of times during the campaign, and total disaster could have been averted as well)
>>892636
True, if the Athenians had followed Lamachus' strategy and attacked Syracuse early it could have been a different story or at least given Athens more of a chance with a foothold in Sicilicy, Alciabiades even had plans to use Sicily as a stepping stone to Carthage, now thats a conflict i would have loved to see!
>>892669
yeah, had Athens took Sicily it well could have won the war against Sparta and its empire would have been perpetuated. The balance of power would have shifted irreversibly as Athens now had a resource and strategic base vaster than Sparta or the Thebans had they joined. It also would have been interesting to see how it dealt with Carthage. Considering their similar political structures and economic might they might well become trading partners or allies. imo Carthage was not really that much of a warmongering nation.
>>892692
Well Carthage is seems was more of a trading empire than one of force so it would have been interesting to see Athens match up against them, especially considering the sicilians very well may have followed the custom of paying tribute to Athens if they had defeated the natives before Gylippus arrived only adding to Athens' wealth and power. With a similar state such as Syracuse on their side (democracy, strong navy) it is hard to believe that the Peloponnesians could have overcome them, i wonder how history would have changed with a longer lasting and stronger Athenian Empire.
>>892713
Gylippus's force was insignificant iirc. The only significance it had was boosting the morale of the Syracuse's at a vital moment during the siege of their city.
>>892754
It was probably the position of Gylippus as Spartan General that raised morale,if one thing was sought after in ancient greece, it was a Spartan general. His arrival was enough for Nicias to finally write home an ask them to relieve him (although he didnt want to be there from the start)
>>892794
yeah true, though gylippus was part helot kek
>>892825
Not so much of a pro with financial responsibilities, like father like son kek
