How could it be said that eating meat was vital for the human species when from prehistoric times through the ancient civilisations and middle ages the vast majority of the population was almost completely vegetarian or (in more arid areas) vegan? Until the advent of industrial farming in late 19th century, throughout the vast majority of farming cultures animal products(probably with the exception of milk) were an extreme luxury only accessible to nobles, and only available to the rest of the population during ceremonies and religious holidays?
Nnot to mention the average vegetarian medieval peasant or khanaanite farmer were far hardier than today's average meat eating person, so clearly meat isn't that necessary for the survival of the human species.
>from prehistoric times through the ancient civilisations and middle ages the vast majority of the population was almost completely vegetarian
Most of human history is pre Neolithic. We were hunter-gatherers.
As for medieval peasants, look at their heights and life spans.
>>890205
>How could it be said that eating meat was vital for the human species when from prehistoric times through the ancient civilisations and middle ages the vast majority of the population was almost completely vegetarian or (in more arid areas) vegan?
CROMAGNIDS, AND NEANDERTHALIDS, FEEL COMPELLED TO RATIONALIZE THEIR PREDILECTION FOR FLESH IN A WORLD WHICH IS INCREASINGLY BECOMING AWARE OF ANIMALS AS FELLOW BEINGS.
>>890217
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point eating pork is viewed on the same level as eating whale or dog in non-asian cultures, but most of the other food animals are dumb as shit.
>>890205
Meat provides a considerable amount of protein and nutrients that are necessary for developing sophisticated brains.
Just because we've developed agricultural products that can replace a lot of that in the last 10000 years doesn't mean we've lost the instinctive desire to consume meat.
>>890205
yes, most people are too hedonistic not to eat meat.
>>890256
FLESHEATING IS NOT PRACTICED DUE TO HEDONISM, BUT BY BIOLOGICAL PREDISPOSITION, AND IGNOBLE ETHICOMORALITY.
FLESHEATING IS NOT A "PLEASURABLE ACT", THEREFORE IT CANNOT BE A HEDONISTIC PRACTICE.
People were vegetarian before the flood.
After it, God told us we can eat meat (but not blood).
>>890267
>"... BUT BY..."
OBVIOUSLY, I MEAN: "... BUT TO..."
>>890285
1. YOU MEAN "YHWH", NOT "GOD"; YHWH IS NOT GOD.
2. YOU MEAN "JEWS", NOT "US" —WHOMEVER YOU MEAN BY THAT.
>>890288
The God of the Bible is the creator of the universe, angels and mankind.
>>890217
>>890222
>>890267
>>890286
>>890288
Hi there!
You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your posts. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!
Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bait to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!
>>890205
So here is my take. Meat was a prestige and trading food, it is arguably one of the earliest trade items in the post-agrarian world and before that provided proficient hunters with a level of recognition no tenderer or farmer could ever attain.
Animal protein has an undeniable effect on human size and build, it has an effect on our very faces that no substitute can replicate.
I know long time and life long vegans, I know children raised on vegan diets who do not have the opportunity to sneak animal protein (which many vegan kids do at schools or by accident). I know all sorts of vegans and with all that said and done there is something very, very disharmonious to the born and raised vegans looks and bodies.
With all that said and done; even insects/Seafood, bone broths, eggs and/or the occasional access to organ meats can be a vital source of nutrients to build healthy well rounded human beings.
This is no attack on vegans just my observation.
The fact is however that humans base their identities on food. Having lived in a country and be a part of a community and land where diet and identity are so interlinked with ethnicity/culture/wealth getting meat eaters who eat large amounts to quite is foolhardy. Especially in the west.
Dietary laws and price make beef, lamb and goat is a deterrent alone, my distaste for red meats only helps reduce meat consumption.
>>890252
Tbf our evolutionary trajectory relating to diet came from our scavenging bone marrow and eating insects/shellfish/organs more than muscle tissue.
>>890292
You must be new because this guy has probs seen this a million times over the months and possibly years on /int/ and /pol/, he won't change.
>>890214
>As for medieval peasants, look at their heights and life spans.
that was due to lack of hygiene, constant starvation, and lack of medical knowledge, not diet.
>>890305
>bad hygiene
Fuck off, revisionist.
>Even more troll threads
>>890302
>FYI Rizo...
"RIZO"?
>.. it's not just annoying White pride fags who do this. Many pastoralist peoples living among farmers boast and take pride in dairy consumption.
I KNOW; IT IS A SPECIFIC IMAGE THAT I MADE YEARS AGO FOR A THREAD IN WHICH THE "ORIGINAL POSTER" —A "WHITE SUPREMACIST"— CLAIMED TO BE ARYAN, AND TO CONSUME "ARYAN FOOD" (MEAT, AND DAIRY).
meats good!
>>890205
Meat was actually quite common in Europe for quite a long while. Many areas in Northern Europe remained hunter gatherer until quite recently and when they became sedentary they only raised cattle and not staple crops. Even Tacitus or Caesar remarks how the Ancient Germans chiefly ate cattle and dairy products with normal growing and planting of corn was left to slaves and mostly neglected.
As for Medieval Europe, even the lowest of the lowest order could raise a pig on scraps. You have a rather twisted image of the period my friend. Parisians averaged around 1 kg of meat per week, when you remember the catholic church banned meat consumption close to 40% of the days of the year you will see that it translates nicely to a piece of meat every other day. Sure at the very top of the scale people ate more meat and down the ladder less but to say the average man ate meat weekly is probably closer to the truth than saying they rarely at it at all.
>>890316
t.Rizo
>>890214
>As for medieval peasants, look at their heights and life spans
Human height immediately plummeted when people started to farm. Depending on fat years or lean years, this may have deviated somewhat, but it stayed relatively the same among agrarians, actually got even lower during the Industrial Revolution, and only now is human height in the western world about the same as it was for hunter gatherers. As for lifespan, infant mortality is always the key. Hunter-Gatherers and peasants routinely lived into their 60s and 70s.
>>890291
>The God of the Bible is the creator of the universe, angels and mankind.
1. "THE BIBLE" IS A PASTICHE OF SCRIPTURES OF TWO DIFFERENT RELIGIONS: JUDAISM, AND CHRISTIANITY.
THE DEITY OF THE "OLD TESTAMENT" IS YHWH; "GOD" OF THE "NEW TESTAMENT" IS ACTUALLY GOD.
2. GOD DID NOT CREATE ANYTHING; GOD EMANATED PERSONAS; THE ACTUAL CREATOR OF THE KOSMOS IS ONE OF THOSE PERSONAS; ID EST: SOFIA.
>>890300
>So here is my take. Meat was a prestige and trading food, it is arguably one of the earliest trade items in the post-agrarian world and before that provided proficient hunters with a level of recognition no tenderer or farmer could ever attain.
I doubt it, salt and flint are way more valuable and in days of old wild fish and game was more abundant than nowadays. I live in an area with many bronze age farms and finds and man the place is absolutely littered with freshwater fish. The population density here allowed farmsteads to be islands in a sea of forest and wetlands.
>>890328
Do you think God is the demiurge, then?
>>890333
WHAT PART OF WHAT I POSTED MADE YOU ASK THAT?
>>890338
From what you've posted, I'm gathering that you're a Gnostic. Gnostics believe that the God of the Old Testament is the demiurge.
>>890332
Fish does not hold the same prestige as a stag, whale or bear neither are insects or shellfish.
It's universal enough to warrant the statement that meat and the exchange of meat and animal derived products for agricultural products is a long standing tradition seen in the early modern period the farmer turn buffalo hunters who traded with farmers in the northern plains, the pygmy hunter and farmer interrelationship, etc... We have a growing body of evidence to prove this as well throughout the World from the early neolithic.
>>890340
There is no difference. The same God who cleaved open the Earth to kill the Korahites while upon their journey is the same God who created Jesus, who quickened the dead for Jesus, who sent down Gabriel with his word, who showed his face to Moses with his word, who sent down a telepath in this millenium
>>890205
Eating meat is only vital for the human species when we are not able to obtain adequate nutrition from other sources, i.e. farming.
For much of our evolution it is what kept us alive most of the time but now that we can easily obtain 100% of what our body needs from vegan sources it is not something which is needed to be healthy.
>inb4 b12
there are certain types of seaweed high in b12 and growing food fertilized with human poop causes the veggies grown in it to have some b12, and of course there are supplements.
Also, OP if I can correct you a bit even in farming societies where meat consumption is very low it is common in most of them for people to still eat things like bugs, small mammal like racoons and rabbits, turtles, birds and bird eggs etc. I'm not saying you can't be healthy while vegan but in most of these types of societies that is the case.
hemp and chia masterrace reporting in
>>890205
>vegetarian
if they were lucky enough to get meat they'd eat it, what the fuck are you on about
>>890390
B-12 has more than one form, only one is bioavaliable. Humans do no produce b-12 so any humanured field that somehow had b-12 survive the composting process would have to come from a animal source with the proper bacteria.
>>890409
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/
Purple seaweed has large amounts of the regular active non-analogue type of b12
>>890435
Nice google searching but nah
>>890292
Wow fuck off
Because the meat industry is worth a lot, so it's important to keep people from understanding (also through dumb and never-ending debates) that murdering billions of animals each year is doing tons of damage to the earth and to ourselves, without any benefit whatsoever. Go vegan, it's one of the best choices you can ever make in you life.
>>890546
>this is what retarded vegans believe
Yeah everything is a conspiracy.
You can't even explain this retardedness with lack of proteins, this has to be genetic.
>>890214
Average height for a male peasant in 14th century England was 5' 8" - it's only the last few decades that we've surpassed that. And they were WAY tougher and stronger than us. As for longevity, childhood mortlaity was huge which drags the figures down but if you lived through childhood you would probably live into your fifties or sixties. Again we have only recently surpassed that.
>>890205
>this is what vegan believes
Why not just go off what professionals say, instead of making black/white moral pronouncements about it? Meat shouldn't be glorified or banned, it should just be eaten less often than it currently is. Make our consumption reflect the recommended intakes.
best to worst:
>produce
>grains, legumes, seeds
>insects, seafood, fish
>eggs, organs
>dairy, meat, etc
So following this, fatty and nutritionally bland ("lean" / protein) meat consumption would be much less, and the consumers more healthy. But the glorious organs and more sophisticated animal products much more popular.
>>890747
gr9 b9 m9
>>890504
You forgot your trip, friend.
>>891231
I'm not your friend, pal
>>890810
Um bushmen/San ate mostly tree nuts, tree fruit and roasted beans for I think 80-85% of their daily calories.
>>891258
but you need to get back to upvoting something
>>890813
lol, most people only eat carbs, dairy and meat, they never work out and dont give a shit about alcohol in moderation. This pyramd is for losers anyway, I eat all of this but skip all the bread
>>890319
>Roman era Europe
>corn
Uwotm8
>>890205
So what? Even if (if!) it's true, what are the normative implications?
>>890205
ACtually the protein poor medieval diet is one of the contributing factors to the noblitites domination in warfare. a medeviel knight as much taller and muscular than the peasantry,
Its notable the first group to challenge this domination, the Swiss, also had a very different diet than peasants in northern Europe
>>890292
lol
>>890205
No they weren't
What we had was nobility taking all the meat for themselves to raise children who were stronger and more aggressive so they could keep the anaemic vegetearians downtrodden
Most peasant dishes are vegetables and animal innards - tripe kidneys liver etc
The chinese are even worse for that shit
>>890311
/pol/tards are shitting their own board with trump posting so much they have to spread elsewhere
>>891915
>China
>Nobility
AFAIK when china *had* nobility, during the Zhou/Warring States period, beef was heavily regulated due to the leather industry, which Nobles needed for shitloads of stuff like armor.
Leading to pork recipes.
>>891736
corn is an english term for grain doesn't need to mean just maize
>>891736
Corn comes for kernel
It was used for any grain harvested for it seeds - millet barley etc as opposed to harvesting for hay
Amerindian corn was maize - but it became generically associated with only maize via cornflakes corn on the cob etc
It's part of how English has developed in different countries eg Americans get butthurt when they hear about hot and cold water taps instead of faucets but use the word TAPwater not FAUCETwater
>>891955
Chinese peasant recipes are disgusting is what I'm saying
>>891981
Ah sorry.
If that's the case: I disagree. Sichuan vegetable dishes are pretty ok.
>>891996
I'm talking about Cantonese non vegetarian shit
>>890205
Think of food as energy
To get the same amount of calories found in meat you need to eat a considerable quantity of plants
The growing of plants takes time, is labor intensive
Pound for pound meat provides more calories than plants
No type of plants/fruits can compete with Liver.
>>890205
Peasants weren't vegetarians by choice hippie.
