If you lived in 1917 Russia would you have listened to this guy?
If you say no, you never worked minimum wage, or even worked in general.
>>887655
Why do that when I can join Makhno in building a free state instead
>>887674
Because the Black Army didn't form until 1918.
No. I'd (begrudgingly) be for the constitutional monarchy set up in 1905. Communism is a scourge on the earth.
I've worked minimum wage jobs, plenty of them. Rather than whining and asking for hand outs, I busted my ass and found myself an apprenticeship that provides me with a living wage (non union position)
Fuck that balding fag.
>>887713
I mean I agree now, but if I'd be working a shitty factory job for more than 50 hours a week for a shitty boss, I'd listen to any guy against that
>>887655
These questions are incoherent per se
Are you asking me, knowing what I know now?
or
Are you asking me to empathize with someone at that time, maybe from a specific milieu?
Me. No.
Me, a poor farmer 1917: Maybe, probably. Do I have kids fighting? How religious am I?
Me, a Romanov: No.
The general form of these questions is pointless, because they only seem interesting when unspecified, left vague to the point of being meaningless If you would ask them more specific, the answers become so obvious (because the specification necessarily has to be so fine as to make answering the question meaningful, the answers themselves start to beg the question/assume the initial point) that asking the question ALSO is meaningless.
This, in turn, makes any reasonable interpretation of the question meaningless, which is why it is nothing more than a creative writing prompt - and after having read the answers, you will have learnt not one thing.
>>887718
Then you are a cuck. You are busting your ass off doing something you don't like just to stay alive, pathetic honestly.
Go into crime or live from the government, stop being such a baby doing what society tells you to do.
>>887655
if i had the benefit of hindsight, fuck no
if i was a miserable russian factory worker, probably
If I lived in the time, I may have fallen for the bluepill. If I could've seen the future I wouldn't, as wouldn't most. We're lucky to have countless communism failures to learn from, but sadly some still shamefully take the bluepill anyway, for which there is no excuse.
The Marxists and Bolsheviks were upper middle class intellectuals who wanted power for themselves and didn't give a shit about the working class, seeing them merely as a means to exploit. All following communist/socialist movements have replicated this.
>>887728
???
Where did I say I don't like my job?
Time to leave the house there m8
>>887744
If you enjoy working you are of low personality
>>887720
same thing was going on in America at the time and they didn't have a communist revolution. They created unions. That's what the Russians should have done. It is not entirely the government's fault. Lenin manipulated people into placing the blame on someone who had nearly nothing to do with it. He never even tried for a moderate or diplomatic solution. He went immediately to revolution. It's sickening.
>>887750
Do you even have a job?
>>887765
I do, but if I had the choice I'd be at home all day enjoying my life
>>887756
Because a violent revolution is the only solution according to Das Kapital
>>887772
> wanna sit at home all day bumming it up
> and I'm of low personality
Like my ex girlfriends would say - we're done here.
No, but it's not like I had a choice. Socialism is always forced upon people, and it is always by a minority.
I'd rather wait for the monarchy to modernise than to starve during a massive famine or die in a labour camp for not being dedicated enough.
>>887655
Of course I would, who the fuck wouldn't?
Lenin was one of the most rational people living in Russia at the time, although that really isn't saying much all things considered. His main problem was that his plans for Russia needed about fifty to sixty years to actually be finalized and made the fatal mistake of assuming that he had that time.
>>887788
Exactly.
>>887784
>bumming it up
I am talking about enlightening myself reading literature and philosophy, like a monk sits in a monastery all day, I wanna be at home all day
Working a job doesn't mentally stimulate me
>>887734
>russian factory worker
nice meme
Things were pretty shitty in pre-Revolutionary Russia, so who knows exactly. But knowing myself and being a pretty religious fellow, I probably would not have turned my back on the Tsar and the Orthodox Church.
>>887655
I probably would have and regretted it later once my family was starving.
I probably would. I'd be an ignorant peasant after all, who doesn't have the virtue of hindsight.
I mean the Tsarist regime treats my like shit, I'm conscripted to fight a terrible war I have no business in, there are bread shortages, 1 in 3 men have a rifle to hold, I have to go back to basically be a slave to a wealth landlord.
Why wouldn't anyone in that position take that chance on something new? People who say "no" are literally just saying "no" because of political and historical hindsight. I doubt they would say "no" if they were actually there.
>>888055
Because since the dawn of humanity people have known that when something sounds too good to be true, than it probably is.
>>888065
And yet they keep falling for it over and over and over and over again. Desperation and poverty does weird things to people, friend.
If I lived in different material and historical conditions, I wouldn't be the same person I am now. So I couldn't say what I'd feel, because I wouldn't be me.
>>887655
I'm a blue collar worker. I wouldn't have followed Lenin because he'd be trying to put me out of a job.
>>888072
Not most people. Only a brainwashed / idealistic / really desperate minority.
>>888124
And yet most peasants don't revolt against socialism when it is introduced to them and they usually last for a while before their destruction.
>>888135
Because if they try to protest they'll be either shot or sent to Siberia. That usually prevents any kind of opposition.
>>887810
>a monk sits in a monastery all day
Are you retarded?
Yes at the time (Tsarist Russia was hell on earth) and Yes with hindsight, actually with Hindsight I would have stopped Lenins assassination, warned him about Stalin and then told the USSR about automatic rifles, Helicopters and Computers.
>>887810
>psuedointellectual commie
Every time
>>888316
>tzarist Russia was hell on earth
Proofs?
>>887655
Absolutely
>>887810
Then why are you here? Is this your definition of enlightening?
>>887788
This may have happened in Russia, but if you were in China under the Qing dynasty I bed you'd disagree, they were incompetent as fuck
Lenin did nothing wrong
>>888590
for example it was an illiterate shithole
>>888704
He didn't explicitly name a successor, that's a pretty big fuck up
>>888715
and stalin did nothing wrong too
>even tough lenin was scared of him BTW
>>887655
I side with Kadets, as a decent human being.
>>887728
How's high school treating you friend :^)
>>888721
>as a decent human being.
you are a subhuman
>>888716
Trotsky is the one who did nothing wrong
>>887736
>I can only talk about history and politics in terms of a pop sci fi 90s action movie
People who use the terms 'blue pill' and 'red pill' in serious conversation are mental children and should be disregarded.
>>887655
right on peace, wrong on workers control
>>888816
>waah idioms
You people realize there were more options than just Bolshevism that would be appealing to lower class Russians right?
Fuck Bolsheviks.
Fuck the Tsar.
I'm going Green.
>>888710
There is literally nothing wrong with not knowing how to read.
>>888867
american detected
>>888867
There's nothing WRONG with it but you miss out on a lot.
>>888710
That has nothing to do with the Tsar.
>>888939
gr8 argument
>>888952
What's your argument faggot?
>correlation equals causation
>>888959
the tsar was not giving a fuck about russia and its people
>>888970
That's not an argument.
>>887655
Well, I'd be still be assravaged about the russo-japanese war, earlier that decade, and I really don't like what Nikolas did, or understand what the fuck he was thinking. Then some idealist comes along and starts speaking about an economic philosophy where everything is perfect
Hell yeah I would have followed the dude
>>887655
Well, I'd be still be assravaged about the russo-japanese war, earlier that decade, and I really don't like what Nicolas II did, or understand what the fuck he was thinking. Then some idealist comes along and starts speaking about an economic philosophy where everything is perfect
Hell yeah I would have followed the dude
>>888873
We really need flags on /his/
An hiro pls
>>887765
That person is most likely someone who's parents are paying for their tuition for a major in communist studies, who works about two hours a week (because their parents refuse to pay for their weed), and complains about muh minimum wage and muh bourgeoisie oppression.
I'd fight for the Czar
>>887756
Not really the same situation. Russia wasn't even close to a democracy, there wasn't really an avenue for peaceful change and reform like there was in the US.
>>887788
>Socialism is always forced upon people
Except all those times Socialist parties were democratically elected.
>>887788
>socialism is forced!
Name one fucking ideology that isn't
>>887718
>you see I busted my ass to get a job that provides a decent standard of living
>please ignore it's statically impossible for everyone to have that standard of living under the current system and that if every poor and working class person did what I did it would mean jack shit.
It's literally impossible for everyone who worked or is working as hard as you did if not harder to get this living wage. So what's the fucking point?
>hurr muh handouts
I'm sorry people aren't cucks and want to do something in their self interest like not being paid a shitty wage.
>>889799
No dice. Czar abdicated
>>887756
> That's what the Russians should have done.
They did. How do you think the Soviets were formed?
USSR is basically a bunch of unions that decided to get shit done, when the government proved to be incapable of anything (in 1917 Russian govenment collapsed 4 times; I'm not including attempt at junta by Kornilov or the October itself) and people were literally dying from hunger on the streets.
>>889859
Liberalism.
>>887728
Is that what you tell you so you can sleep at night?
>>890015
>cuts off head
>>890031
Not French "liberalism".
>>887655
Fuck no I wouldn't, and I'd join the White Armies to boot.
God bless the Tsar
ITT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZvXiUlRWKg
Of course I would have listened.
Live was harsh and exiting new events would have been observed by most out of curiosity and the wish to experience something different.
But if I would have liked it would be another question and dependent on my contency with being in a low position.
When im fed and believe in god given authority to rule over me, I may check that exiting new guy and his speeches out for the heck of it but still be loyal to crown and priest.
>>888316
If the USSR hadn't computerised in such a weird way it'd be interesting to see how that would have changed things.
>>887655
Yes, He's one of the only humans in history I consider one of my "Heroes."
>>888316
> warned him about Stalin and then told the USSR about automatic rifles, Helicopters and Computers.
What is there to warn about? Stalin was tasked by Lenin to prevent dictator (Trotsky at the time) to take over USSR. I say he had done his job. It was only three years after his death Soviets got the first attempt at proper dictatorship and Khruschev didn't last long.
As for the automatic rifles - Soviets had a pretty nice PPSh during WWII (i.e. reliable and easy to make).
>>888853
> You people realize there were more options than just Bolshevism that would be appealing to lower class Russians right?
None of them could deliver, though.
The major demand was the Land Reform and only Bolsheviks actually had the balls to actually do it the proper way.
>>889483
> Then some idealist comes along and starts speaking about an economic philosophy where everything is perfect
Nah.
Commies didn't have much of a popular support until they overthrew the government. Until the summer 1917 nobody even knew much about them. They were some minor party nobody cared about.
After the July Bolsheviks became known, but only as German spies, traitors and collaborationists: government needed a scapegoat for army failures.
It was the things Lenin actually did (Land Reform) immediately that made Bolsheviks political power and gave them real support. Nobody cared about their rhetorics. Not until 20s, at the very least.
>>887655
I wouldn't simply because he caused too much deaths in his attempts for revolution
>muh handouts
>muh refusal to work hard
NEET purge when?
>>888982
gr8 argument m8
>>890262
Actually, his coup was pretty much bloodless (the only real fighting happened in Moscow).
It was the Civil War that begun in summer of 1918 that was bloody.
Fully agree
>>887655
Fuck yes, I would have die for the revolution with no doubt
>>887728
>heh, stupid capitalist sheeple
>>887756
Because he, like pretty much all communist revolutionaries, was a manipulative sociopath with a deep seeded hatred for his fellow man
>>887810
get a better job
we dont even have to work 5 times a week. the only reason we work so much is because of over consumption and because the government is shit at training people. if more people where willing to work worked and more training was available, less time would be needed for jobs. i havent done the maths but we definitely dont need to work 5 times a week. fuck, we probably only have to work a few times a week. If someone has the qualifications and training for a job, then that job could be cycled between the qualified people. think about it, son.
Fuck no.
If I was roughly in the same living situation I'm in now I'd either fight for the whites or flee to the united states to live in glorious capitalism.
>>889843
Sure they were Schlomo
>>889859
Capitalism
>>890545
> flee to the united states to live in glorious capitalism.
That was the time when Ford was dousing crowds of hungry workers with cold water in January. And that was still Good Times. There was Derpression on the horizon.
Capitalism got "glorious" in 50s, when Soviets scared the shit out of government.
>>890553
ding
>>887655
Nope, fuck this guy. I'd be all about that Tsar.
>>890553
Yeah man those people working in sweat shops are totally grateful for dem free markets!
>>887713
Lenin worked alright at first, but the farms were fucced. Lenin wasn't an idiot though, even if you think he was misguided, and he wasn't going to keep policies he knew weren't working. The Bolsheviks passed the NEP in 1921 (a bit late but you know, gubmint) which brought back a lot of capitalism, and it worked well. Lenin understood and appreciated Marx in that, like Marx, he recognized the value of capitalism where it would be more valuable than socialism & used it wisely. Stalin on the other hand just used misleading & falsely communist rhetoric to push useless policies and empower useless people and keep himself in power, and he set the USSR down a far worse path than Lenin ever would have, no matter what you think of socialism.
>>890209
>only Bolsheviks actually had the balls to actually do it the proper way.
You mean murder people?
>>890720
They could always go back to farming dirt with the rest of the peasants if they hate making sneakers so much.
Funny how they never do...
>>890550
Socialists of various stripes won majorities in elections all over Russia in 1917.
Try again porky.
>>890720
Yes, they are. If it weren't for market reforms, they would be starving peasant farmers.
There is nothing that can help poor nations more than freedom of trade.
I probably would have died in the red army as a teenager thinking I did something with my life. I was a marxist until I was 18, when I started making more than $30,000 a year and read JFK's speeches about the Soviet failures. Since JFK wasn't alive in 1917, I wouldn't know better.
>>888690
You do realise that the Qing had fallen decades before Mao came to power?
I'd rather support Chiang Kai Check them.
>>890550
Not that guy, but in Saskatchewan, Canada, there was a socialist premier by the name of Tommy Douglas who was in office from 1961 to 1971.
>>891298
>with market reforms they are starving slave labours.
Uh, no. They have stable jobs with fixed payments and are far from being slaves or from starving. Ask any Chinese factory worker if they would rather be where they are now or to live like their parents or grandparents. The market reforms were the best thing to happen to China since the fall of the Manchu.
>>890553
capitalism doesn't work without property rights upheld by force
>but my property rights are the REAL ONES
all property rights are made up
>>891339
So? That doesn't mean that it is a system that is forced upon people.
>>891074
> Bolsheviks passed the NEP in 1921 (a bit late but you know
Except not. They did it too early: since they reduced rationing they could not prevent famine in Volga region that happened half a year later.
> push useless policies
You are confusing Stalin and Khruschev.
>>891260
> There is nothing that can help poor nations more than freedom of trade.
Hamilton would like to have a word with you.
>>891329
> market reforms
Have nothing to do with China's industrialization.
>>891411
Good one. I suppose foreign investiment had nothing to do with the growth of industry and wealth in China? Surely it was all a result of the Great Leap Forward.
>>891407
Yeah, and I wouldn't like to have a word with him. I would have to explain the whole concept of comparative advantage.
>>891418
> foreign investiment
Requires stability, not "free market". Ukraine is as free as you can get without going anarcho-capitalist. Except nobody invests anything.
>>890511
>pumping an Armalite
Golden
>>887655
>Work for less than minimum wage on paper
>generally leave every night I work with 200-500 dollars
Plebs need not apply.
>>888588
I know it would be hilarious if it wasn't so scary these people exist.
>>891682
>ukraine is as free as you can get
>>890119
>if
Why communists love that word so much?
>>889843
After a massive propaganda onslaught by the universities and the education system.
>>887728
You know that in a communist utopia people still work, right?
>>891897
Yes, but for themselves.
>>891901
so what if you enjoy your job in a non-communist society? is that not "real" enjoyment?
>>891874
>trusting a conservative think tank to accurately gauge economic freedom
>boiling down something that complex to a number and an intelligence-insulting graph
Lies, damned lies, and statistics, sir.
>>891927
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any of your sources.
>>892000
I'm not even disagreeing with you, I just think that graphic is, in gentle language, dubious. If the /his/ board is to be anything but a watered-down /pol/, "consider the source" must be our watch word.
>>891874
Feels good to be strayan, enjoy your North Korean economy seppos.
>>892033
>watchword
>three words
>>892033
>"Lies!"
>"I'm not disagreeing with you"
Still, you can see for yourself:
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/ukraine
>>887655
depends. Am I rich or poor?
>>889870
It's literally impossible to work hard and not get a good standard of living. Impossible. Do you have any idea how lazy the average person is? If you work hard you automatically get into the top 20%
You have very obviously never run your own business
>>892206
>(From the site) - "Russia has illegally annexed the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, and pro-Russian separatists are trying to destabilize the eastern part of the country."
Not that anon, but I just fucking dropped your source, m8. Get another.
