russian history noob here, started a russian history course, learnt about the Tsar up until the Bolshevik seziure of Petrograd.
i am fascinated by Trotsky and Lenins work
but seriously, why doesn't communism work?
It work great, the only reason the Soviet union failed was because of Western sabotage.
Just ask any Russian patriot and they will tell you the truth ;^)
>>876648
communism works on paper
not irl
It'll work fine. Just take humans out of the equation.
Well, since you've read about russian history you should be aware that Russia was terribly undeveloped. Illiterate and dirt poor population that lived outside of cities, administrative bodies were in awful state, there was barely any industry and imperialist expansion had made the country politically unstable and unmanageable.
Russia was politically and socially completely unprepared for an experiement such as transitioning into communism.
>>876638
There is no rational way for central planners to distribute consumer goods, people also do not work very hard under very controlled conditions so production is low unless you use a terror campaign.
>>876638
Because people can't be trusted to relinquish power.
>>876662
Oh right, yeah because we are only beginning to learn about the bl treaty, i dont know anything past that atm
There are a number of reasons why the government system of the Soviet Union's government didn't work, and none of them boil down to "communism."
First: The Soviet Union wasn't a Communist nation, it was a Socialist nation. Communism was meant to be the end goal that they never achieved.
Second: The Soviet Union failed because of massive political strife. Otherwise, Socialism worked out rather well for them. In less than a century, what had originally been an agrarian backwater with little to no industry, no hospitals, low literacy, little exploited resources, and low Yelp reviews into one of the world's superpowers, dwarfed by the United States.
In a way, the Soviet Union did work. However, for some, the price was far too high. There was rampant corruption, tyranny, famines, a terrible war that pushed much of its industry to the unforgiving Siberia, economic inflexibility, and Draconian social policies that led to its collapse.
>>876638
Communism has never worked because it has never been tried.
Communism failed to happen in Russia because the Russian population was far too conditioned by it's Aristocratic past to be able to emulate a true Communist system. Karl Marx was right when he said that Communism wasn't possible in agriculturally driven economies.
No really western sabotage was a huge part of the "failure" was western sabotage. Literally from the moment of he revolution the west did absolutely everything they could to stop the revolution, supporting the white forces. The arms race was a huge reason why the society didn't have a bunch of consumer goods because they were absolutely terrified of western attack. In the civil war the west prevented a global revolution by helping Poland in the polish soviet war. If Poland fell it was likely the German revolution would have kicked off again, if Germany fell the rest of the west which was threatening revolt would have followed suit.
Except in Poland and Romania the overthrow of communism was done by the "communist elites" not common people, many of whom supported the Soviet Union.
When the party stopped being communist depends on who you ask but personally I blame kruschev who with his ridiculous gulag amnesty released what can only be described as hardened super criminals who quickly infiltrated the government.
Basically Stalin didn't go far enough like robespierre but the Napoleon equivalent never showed up
It help to think of the Russian revolution as analogous to the French Revolution. The Soviet Union was like the first French Republic.
Many thought the French disaster was proof democracy was barbarism and didn't work and look where we are now
The biggest threat to the Ruling Class of the World was the rise of the Working Class therefore it had to be destroyed, demonized, lied about, sabotaged in every means possible. This was the story of Communist Revolutions.
>>876666
Satan here is right.
The state is supposed to wither away, but every time its leaders refuse to give up power.
>>876668
>There was rampant corruption, tyranny, famines, a terrible war that pushed much of its industry to the unforgiving Siberia, economic inflexibility, and Draconian social policies that led to its collapse.
Wait, are we talking about Russia before or after the revolution?
>>876679
I suppose they could be applied to both, bot two stick out to me that can't.
>A terrible war that pushed most of its industry to Siberia.
There was very little economic/industrial mobility during World War One for Russia.
>Economic inflexibility.
There was very little economic planning to speak of in Russia beyond infrastructure, from my understanding.
The point is that these flaws, which should have been eliminated under Socialism, remained, leading to its collapse. You could say the same would have happened with Tsarist Russia as well.
>>876638
>i am fascinated by Trotsky and Lenins work
>but seriously, why doesn't communism work?
Maybe you could come back after having read Pirani, Fitzpatrick, Andrle, Djilas, Haraszti... nah.
>>876677
I find these power corrupts explanations to be juvenile. The big example of Stalin doesn't work because Stalin was almost certainly ideologically motivated, risking his life since a young age in revolutionary activity. He was certainly
Machiavellian to the extreme and lacked morality but he was not in it for powers sake. Putting other people in charge at the most important time of the year and going off to a place without at telephone is not the action of a maniac with a power fetish. Can you imagine the president doing something like that?
>>876689
thats up to my history course senpai
senpai
>>876683
I was mostly being cheeky but I'm not sure if the failures of soviet socialism were 'too much' as Russia had never been a particularly prosperous or kind place.
>>876638
Hierarchy is necessary for social stability, if you enforce a system in which everyone is equal, it will ultimately fall apart
>>876707
the only answer that answered my question
>>876712
You mean the only answer that satisfied your simplistic understanding of society?
>>876719
Dude, if everything written here is an "essay" to you, I fear for you when you reach High School.
>but real communism has never been tried!
>>876693
What actually matters is that a poor and uneducated majority has very little ability or opportunity to prevent corruption.
>>876722
just tired, in year 12 man lol
>>876719
he is wrong
but its okay both of you are retarded shitters
>>876732
hey i may be retarded but atleast im not an avid 4chan user........ oh wait.
>>876638
Who's to say it doesn't? The Soviet Union was objectively better than what it replaced, and Marxist-Leninism is essentially the worst method of creating communism.
Communism on a micro scale (Paris 1871, American utopianism, Rojava) is verifiably awesome.
>>876693
I'm not claiming to know the reasons behind it, I'm just saying that communism's later stages are supposed to have no one man in power, and that has yet to happen.
>>876727
This but for real
>>876763
>objectively better
op here, any of you fuckers know what those scottish hats are called, cover the top part of the head, typically worn to the side?
>>876813
Berets you fag.
>>876815
haha you fucking lad, cheers brudda
>>876638
Because I has never been actually tested duhh
>>876813
Tam o' shanter
>>876835
its a scottish hat but not the one i needed
cheers tho
>>876663
>There is no rational way for central planners to distribute consumer goods
Nixon asks Brezhnev:
-How do you manage to supply such a huge country?
-Oh, it's easy. We ship everything to Moscow, and people are taking what they want from there.
In fact, I'll hijack this shitty thread with communist jokes.
Nixon asks Brezhnev why Soviet workers don't go on strikes. Brezhnev takes him to the factory:
-Comrades, payment will decrease starting tomorrow!
Applause.
-Working hours will increase!
Applause.
-Every tenth person will be hanged!
-Do we have to bring our own rope?
Nixon scolds Brezhnev for suppressing human rights:
-In my country any person can go in front of White House and say I'm an idiot!
-But everyone can go to Red Square and say you're an idiot too
Collective farm party meeting:
-Comrades, we've got two questions to discuss today: repairing the shed and building communism. Since we don't have any boards, let's start from the latter.
-What kinds of scenarios for building communism do we have?
-Two: realistic and unrealistic. Realistic one is: aliens will come and do it. Unrealistic one is: we'll do everything on our own.
-Is capitalist or socialist hell better?
-Socialist hell, of course! Either there are no matches, or fuel wasn't supplied, or cauldron is on repair, or demons have a party meeting.
-What is the most permanent thing in Soviet Union?
-Temporary difficulties.
-What are the main problems with agriculture?
-There are four of them: winter, spring, summer and autumn.
-What kind of problem are mathematician, physicist, biologist, engineer, doctor, architect, economist, lawyer and philosopher are needed together for?
-Harvesting potatoes in the collective farm.
