So my dear couch philosophers,
What is freedom to you?
Worth diying for?
What about political and social freedom?
In a few months I'll enlist in the military and I thought I should ask 4chan's most intellectual board for their views.
>>872815
Branch? MOS?
freedom df= the power to do whatever I want to whoever I want whenever I want with whatever implement I want in the context of market capitalism
Freedom is an illusion
>>872826
Infantry.
I'm suicidal and I got nothing to lose. I might as well give something back to society,you know?
>Parents both deceased.
>Sister died in car crash
My last relationship was 2 months ago and left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I haven't got courage to move on with my chin up. I choose to die a man's death.
No cyanide and no sugar coating or lies that everything will get better eventually. None will cry for my loss so they might as well applaud and give honorary gunshots.
I'm not at all influenced by heroic movies and shit. I'm well aware that my death will be anything but heroic or painless.
So I come to you dear 4chan. Inspire me.
You've let me down.
>>872815
>What is freedom to you?
A spook
>Worth diying for?
Nothing
>What about political and social freedom?
Spooks.
>>872815
Freedom is what you´re giving up by joining
But may you get other good things, maybe even wisdom
>>872886
You'll probably get weeded out very quickly, discharged, and commit suicide.
Sorry.
>>872886
Joining the military isn't giving back something to society. Most people who join are there because they either want to leech off the benefits or think they are doing something useful. Go be a charity worker, actually help people instead of joining an institution that will treat you like cannon fodder and fuck you up even more mentally. The military might give you a false sense of purpose, but its better to be depressed and real with yourself than trying to lie and feel slightly better. You will be surrounded by dumbfucks who are there because they can't do anything else. No one with half a brain joins infantry.
Call me an edgelord, but coming from a family with military history back to WWI, theres no fucking reason you should ever join. If you want to give something back, volunteer places, go to other countries, do anything besides join the military
Join the fucking Navy you idiot.
Luv future you :3
>>872815
Political and social freedom are almost meaningless without economic agency, IMO. That being said, I also value the basic concepts of liberal democracy, and despite being a socialist, I think using force to protect pluralism is an absolute necessity.
>>872815
>What is freedom to you?
The liberty to do whatever the hell you want. In confines of just and morally accepted laws of course.
>worth dying for?
Yes.
>What about political and social freedom?
Again withing the confines of moral laws that are commonly accepted amongst the people, someone should be able to do or think whatever they want.
>>873147
In terms of will I'm well above the average man. I will NOT die a cowards death.
War is the most heroic and glorious of human activities. A heroic death on the battlefield is the best death.
t. all of the ancient Indo-European cultures
>>872815
>What is freedom to you?
The right to own firearms
>>873299
a shame no one in your family managed to climb ranks in the military
maybe then you would notice the immediate benefits of having connections in the highest placest of society
>>875850
It's okay to say that before the fact, but then you get into actual combat and don't know what the fuck is happening. Don't join the military anon, channel your pain into the arts. Joining a military is essentially furthering the regime of tyrants and sociopaths. Revel in that which makes you human and transform it into a beautiful tapestry. Make yourself an example for others to follow if you really want to give something back.
freedom is worth nothing if its not taken advantage of. we're absolutely free as is and we continually fail to take responsibility for that.
>>875922
Damn, I agree with you but you sound like a fucking cuck lmao
Go get 'em, OP.
>>872886
>I'm not going out like a pussy.
>I am doing it to kill myself though.
>I'm going to make taxpayers pay for months of training.
>So I can waste it by dying.
>Giving back to society y'know?
With your logic you'd probably end up putting your whole unit in danger. And that's both downright dickish, and selfish.
>>872815
1. Freedom is an obligation. We have te duty to act freely and that means to take responsability from our acts. I choose to do something, i'm responsible for its concequences.
2. Without freedom we can no longer consider ourselves apart from animals or tools. If you consider living as a human being worth dying for, then yes.
3. Political freedom is irrelevant when there is plenity of social and personal freedom. So political freedom is a tool for change. And social freedom is an abstract concept affected by culture and place.
I'm as lost as you OP, but i'm not an idiot. Soon i will travel to Syria, gonna do some social work. Hope to die there.
>>873147
Kek
>>875940
Purely opportunistic sociopathic fuckfaces are the real cucks man. They can't defeat my style.
Do any of you ever think of how odd it is that a states secession from the union is illegal? Why is it that the union kept the confederacy from seceding for so long that it had to be pushed to war? How can a nation so obsessed with the notion of freedom keep from granting it to their own citizens?
>>872886
Try asceticism anon. What have you got to lose anyways?
>>875952
I would never do anything crazy so that I could be seen as a hero and endanger the entire unit just because I've lost my will to live that doesn't mean I've lost my humanity.
>>875922
There's nothing left for me to give to the world. Look around you my dear Anon. The world is filled with diying artists:poets,writers,painters. All of them contribute to arts but not all of them are recognized. Look at your favourite philosopher...Nietzsche died alone and sad.
I won't follow him. It's true what you said about the regimes but...if you can't beat 'em,join 'em.
>>875960
>Living as human being worth diying for.
Yes,not all of us have the opportunity to live.
>>875998
It doesn't appeal to me. Afterall,we are sociable beings by nature. But I like the idea of a peaceful death.
>>873299
I've been surrounded by dumbfucks all my life Anon. The military isn't going to scar me either. Also the benefits...I doubt I will live to ever see them. Infantry is a do or die.
>>876909
You seem logical enough. Why the military of all places?
>>877917
Because the military offers a good death and my country is the only thing that will live on (hopefully)
If you think you are going to die just because you want to be infantry you are out of your fucking mind, the fact that the country you are attempting to serve in allows you to choose service means they probably have a pretty high values on human life. First world countries don't often throw you to a certain death nowadays. Why don't you go get medicated and find something less retarded to do so some young NCO doesn't have to deal with your bullshit.
>>878266
The likelihood of you actually dying in the military, unless we get involved in a proper war, isn't that high. Actively pursuing death will only put other people in danger.
It won't be a good death to join up specifically looking to get yourself offed. You won't be dying for anything but an excuse to off yourself with some stupid pretense of 'honor' and possibly getting your friends killed in the process.
Chances are somebody will catch you being a complete dipshit and immediately ensure you're kept as far from the front line as possible as some cook or some shit, until you realize how miserable you've made yourself and just doing it yourself and creating a whole new controversy for the military to have to deal with.
>>876909
If I can be blunt with you:
Your odds of joining the infantry are remote.
Unless you're a fucking hooah daddy stud who enjoys working out several times a day and happens to be a pathologically good shot and possess an uncanny sense of direction, you're probably going to end up as a pog. Barring a war of WW2-esque proportions, infantry has become its own highly specialized field within the military and the competition can be fierce.
And they're NOT going to want you in their unit if you're suicidal. That's the last thing you want in a soldier. They'll teach you a trade, something pedestrian and mundane like water tank maintenance worker, and earmark your file as being a soldier with psych issues. If they even let you in at all. You'll be just as bored with life, only now you're in an environment where they treat you like a disposable resource.
If you're feeling depressed or suicidal, it doesn't matter where you go, you'll be depressed and suicidal there. You can't control what the chemicals in your brain are doing, but what you can do is seek mental health treatment from a professional. Then maybe you won't be so keen on throwing your life away.
>>872815
>What is freedom to you?
Feeling like I'm not being coerced. It's subjective and something better expressed as a degree than a total state.
>>872886
wait, you're suicidal and you're going into the infantry? please, don't do this. it's not fair to the people that will have to work with you. just go to school and deal with these emotions, it's part of growing up and becoming whole.
>>881518
I happen to be in an excellent shape and I was always well disciplined. I can take orders as well. The professional psychologist is just going to tell me how life is worth living.For me,it really stopped being worth it. People I loved are gone forever and I'm jobless and soon...homeless. I have nothing to live for and religion is a lie.
>>881649
School?Don't mix me up with the self-diagnosed edgy teenagers. I'm more than a well mannered adult.
>>881735
>School?Don't mix me up with the self-diagnosed edgy teenagers. I'm more than a well mannered adult.
why can't you deal with your emotions then? you haven't thought anything out. your perspective is far from being refined or original.
stay away from the infantry. get your shit together. the infantry is not social services, it's the opposite. you will not find closure, you will not find relief of your ailments, you will not find the enlightenment you seek.
either join for the right reasons, or stay away.
>>872815
I just left the Infantry. I even deployed in 2012 to Afghanistan.
It's been getting easier in the Infantry because so many guys are killing themselves or something similar. We aren't really at war anymore and my deployment to Afghanistan was a pointless joke. The people there really don't give a flying fuck what happens to US. I saw a lot of combat because I was attached to special forces (believe it or not). The whole time I couldn't understand what all the hard work was for. It's just constant competition, constant exhaustion, constant head games. You actually begin to lose your humanity and become a robotic soldier. It's filled with guys from broken family's and personality disorders.
My advice? Join the military it can be great. Just don't join the Infantry.
>>881756
branch?
>>881760
Army...
>>881761
lol, why the "..."
what province
>>881775
Sorry I get frustrated thinking about it. Kandahar.
>>881779
cool.
was in a different branch, but I was in Helmand. i agree with most of what you said. i was there when it was clearly a conflict/war/whatever you'd like to call it, but everything you said is pretty accurate. but the hard work was primarily to eliminate taliban strongholds, but it was pointless at times since 1) we pretty much had no ROE, which means we could let loose 2) but then we'd be given restrictions over the radio, limiting our resources when requested.
so, we are told to go fight and take out the enemy, but to follow the rules while doing so. rule has it's own rules- you either take out the enemy or don't. and it you don't, what's the point
Exactly. When I was there our ROE was to never shoot unless shot at. We couldn't do shit except wait to be target practice for them. When we went on patrols it was the same deal. It drove me insane.
>>881804
we were able to shoot upon suspicion or our perception of HOSTILE INTENT, we didn't need to wait to be fired at. there were was one time where we were ambushed, and we were denied air when it was a standstill. so, we just occasionally shot at each other for hours, nobody moving, until they eventually left on motorcycles because I guess nobody was going to win.
the problem could have been eliminated in one or two call for fires, but I guess officers wanted to limit the damage to the village since we'd probably have to pay them back.
lol@when chain of command worries about their real estate v. operational success
>>872815
Freedom is the right to rule of law, to be self sufficient and to have free agency within the scope of the laws of the Divinity.
>>881813
Lucky. I wish I had that ROE. Haha officers are ridiculous. Good to hear from another non pog.
>>881735
>well disciplined
>suicidal
You're a fucking narcissistic ass hole. You have unrealistic and aggrandized views of your self worth. You're nothing but a little bitch who will die very soon. Good luck in the military, you cunt.
t. Actually Mad
I know absolutely nothing about philosophy but I can tell you right now that you will have no time at all to worry about history, politics or whatever when you join. Enjoy your 18 hour workday.
>>872815
Freedom is being the Pirate King
>>872815
>most intellectual board
that would be /sci/, but your question would be misplaced there
I love military history, and I'm physically very fit, so I often daydreamed about joining the military. Yet, I could never get myself to do it, for the sole reason that I couldn't follow orders against better judgment, especially when these orders concern life and death.
For me, this is an enormous thing. I would love to be in the military, train a lot, learn about warfare, and travel the world. But following even a single order I don't believe in is something I would never do in life.
>>876909
>I doubt I will live to ever see them. Infantry is a do or die.
M80 you are really overestimating the amount of actual combat you're going to see. Chances are, you wont even be deployed to a warzone, you'll be deployed to some overseas base on some pacific island or central Asia or Poland or some shit.
You're not going to be able to die for your country, you're just going to be able to sit on a base somewhere, running through endless training exercises and PT for your country. It wont be any more exciting than civilian life, in fact it will probably be significantly more boring, you will probably never be shot at or get to shoot anyone. All you'll get is a system to mother you and take care of your basic needs for a few years.
You really aren't going to get anything significant out of it. If you are American (assuming you are), you're more likely to see combat/get to shoot someone in the police force than the army.
>>872845
>in the context of market capitalism
wew lad
>>881742
I wasn't looking for closure or enlightenment. I can manage emotions very well and I'm more than physically capable of joining the military.
Thing is,I've lost the earth from my feet and I got nothing to live for.
>>881999
Truly. I wouldn't be here if I was so full of myself talking to strangers and never having the need to actually parade myself. We are all going to die (very) soon.
>>882307
That's some nice advice lad.
>>881756
What do you propose,friend? I don't mind the constant physical exercises that much and I can carry out orders efficiently. Nor do I mind being employed into a peaceful area. En lieu,I got nothing to lose. Soon enough I'll also lose the roof above my head.
>>882100
You and me both buddy. Live long and prosper. I've always dreamed of enlisting in the military since I was a kid but I never thought I would join it today under these circumstances.
>>882024
I can pull that off.
>>882974
Would the infantry not make you more suicidal? You're very likely to spend a majority of your time doing either menial tasks or nothing at all. In personal experience, doing nothing at all makes one more suicidal.
Honestly all of this dying honorably or channeling depression into something because you have nothing to lose is stupid. Odds are you won't die honorably in a modern American war, rather if you are deployed in a combat zone you'll spend 9 months doing jack and shit. If you do end up dying, it will be to a road side bomb. You won't hurl your body over someone and save them, you'll die gurgling blood and regretting everything.
You won't die in the military. If you take anti-depressants they won't let you in period. If you want to actually try and improve our life join the Navy or Air Force. The Army is in bad shape.
>>875850
Son, may I call you son? I was a Marine for a number of years, seen combat, pulled some people away from the brink of suicide, and they all thought like you did. That they could will themselves from not dying.
You have nothing to life for. You're not going to make it. The military looks for people like you, and gets rid of them in training. That could end with an other than honorable discharge, that will follow you back into civilian life.
Get off of this path you're on. It's not the answer. It leads to death.
>>881756
Good advice doc. Thanks for your service.
>>883170
This is OP. Again,what do you propose?Keep on trying to find a normal job and struggle alone and maybe live off the streets?That's absurd but I could make it. Although that would make me feel even more miserable. I can man up at any given point in time and things wouldn't change.
>>883155
I'm not taking any meds and I can still walk AND talk rationally.
>>883231
I can only tell you what I would do.
I would be homeless for a while. And when I was tired of being homeless, I would turn to God, and ask for help.
