Is it true that African Americans are physically superior because only the healthier ones survived during Atlantic Slave Trade, causing bottleneck effect?
I honestly think this is ridiculous but I need proof.
>>872313
>true that African Americans are physically superior because only the healthier ones survived during Atlantic Slave Trade, causing bottleneck effect?
No, because genes don't work that way. You need 1000's of years for significant genetic differences to appear among a population.
Kenyans are great long distance runners because they are tall and (some) live at high altitudes. West Africans (where most slaves came from) have more muscle mass on account of the rampancy of malaria in the area. Sickle cell disease is an adaptation that renders one all but immune to malaria but harms vascular health. To adapt to this natives evolved more explosive strength instead. The West Africans who don't have sickle cell disease are typically good athletes.
>>872334
Do you even know what a bottleneck effect is? Let's do a really simple example. Let's say we prevented every single person with blonde hair from reproducing. Would there be a change in the rates of blonde hair for the next generation?
No, Western Africans who have never went to America are good athletes too. Hakeem Olajuwon is not an African American, for example.
>>872313
Of course it's not true. African Americans today have the highest rates of obesity and a whole host of physical maladies that they get at higher rates than the general population.
They're not "physically superior" in the first place.
>>872334
True but bottleneck effect is an exeption m8
>>872480
Isn't that due to a generally crappy lifestile though?
>>872313
The dominance of African Americans in sports is a cultural matter, not a physical one.
An obvious example is boxing. Irish and Italian boxers dominated the sport in the early twentieth century. As both groups gentrified, this domination disappeared and was replaced by a dominant of black fighters. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, there's been a huge influx of Eastern Europeans into the sport.
Poor people box.
WE WUZ NATURAL SELECTION
>>872498
>The dominance of African Americans in sports is a cultural matter
Depends on the sport. The fastest white man will never be faster than the fastest black man because blacks have narrower hips which gives them more efficient forward momentum.
>>872437
I don't think you understand the sheer amount of Africans who were transported during the slave trade.
Also, there is no plausible way that the slave traders, who paid an incredible amount for the slaves they were in charge of transporting, would let such an amount die on the way across the Atlantic and lose such an enormous amount of money and profit.
Also, genetic don't work like you think. Look up the nazi eugenics experiment on people with schizophrenia vs schizophrenia rates in Germany currently
>>872313
What would cause them to be healthier? Why would the unhealthy not reproduce like they did in Africa?
Unlike what some people claim slave traders generally tried to ferry their goods across the sea alive and undamaged because failing to do so would put you out of business quite fast.
>>872313
Using this logic we can conclude that African Americans are natural slaves, since those ill-fit to become slaves died off. Not just on the voyage but on the plantations, those that made poor slaves were probably killed or failed to reproduce.
>>872508
>Also, there is no plausible way that the slave traders, who paid an incredible amount for the slaves they were in charge of transporting, would let such an amount die on the way across the Atlantic and lose such an enormous amount of money and profit.
The death rate in the trans-Atlantic slave trade was as high as 25%.
>Also, genetic don't work like you think. Look up the nazi eugenics experiment on people with schizophrenia vs schizophrenia rates in Germany currently
Dude, I work in a genetics lab, I'm not naive to the subject. Different traits have different modes of inheritance. Schizophrenia is a complex trait with many genes that make small contributions, and a heavy environmental component. Not all genes are like that, some are truly Mendelian in their inheritance and can be changed within single bottleneck effects, for example some of the genes that were found to be deferentially expressed in survivors of the Leningrad siege and their descendants.
>>872489
And when you have a black athlete, you don't think that's also due to lifestyle? Especially what with the enormous community pressures against academic achievement that you see in most African-American communities?
>>872535
>The death rate in the trans-Atlantic slave trade was as high as 25%.
As much as I think abolitionists were the good guys you should not forget that they too relied on propaganda and made up statistics.
>>872544
Are you implying that the death rate was lower? I don't see any reason that would necessarily be the case given the well established horrible conditions they were in during transport and the fact that a significant number of them were going to locations were they would literally be worked to death. Any place that didn't work their slaves to death didn't need a constant supply of new slaves.
Yes. The Americans also bred them selectively too.
This is why America has a cuck fetish.
>>872552
>the well established horrible conditions they were in during transport
Not every ship was the same and that all too famous picture of slaves being chained up below deck like sardines was one of the images used by abolitionists as well sort of like propaganda. Other sources point to the slaves being aired daily and eating pretty much the same as the rest of the crew. Emphasis was put on buildings ships that could sail fast so as to minimize casualties. I will dig up the research which was quite controversial when published.
>>872535
>Dude, I work in a genetics lab, I'm not naive to the subject.
What do you think about the HBD movement
>>872574
The same ships made constant trips and historically people don't give a shit about slaves. I'm not seeing any reason to believe their conditions were better than what is commonly known.
>Aired daily and ate dried bread and salted meat
Not helping your case desu.
>>872437
the bottleneck of the atlantic slave trade isn't a bottleneck, so your argument is retarded.
Also, being a physically strong farmer doesn't make you more likely to survive a brutal ship ride. You can be a small, weak, feeble coward missing a leg and still have resistances to all the things that could kill you on the trip.
nothing humanity has ever done since the invention of language has impacted our evolution or gene pools yet. 4chan really needs to learn how genetics works.
>>872535
>Dude, I work in a genetics lab
So you took 1 genetics class and sucked up to an actual geneticist? that doesn't make you an expert.
because if you were an expert, you wouldn't be calling the atlantic slave trade a bottleneck.
>>872600
>historically people don't give a shit about slaves
Ehm what? Pretty sure they did m8.
>I'm not seeing any reason to believe their conditions were better than what is commonly known.
Latest research puts the mortality rate at 12.5%
>Not helping your case desu.
Why not? The inherent shittyness of sea travel affected everyone back then.
>>872602
To be fair, genetic flaws would indeed be weeded out to some degree. Only healthy specimens were chosen and the healthier ones (perhaps healthier due to some genetic trait, perhaps not) would be more likely to survive the voyage as well as the hard lifestyle to come.
>>872602
>nothing humanity has ever done since the invention of language has impacted our evolution or gene pools yet. 4chan really needs to learn how genetics works.
This is a naive view of genetics. Anything that substantially changes the environment will affect evolution. Do you really think mate selection in hunter-gatherer societies will be the same as mate selection in early cities, or an industrial setting? Because evolution isn't just about survival, it's about who mates.
>>872587
I think it's important to acknowledge that pretty much every trait is influenced by genetics, and that genetics differ between populations. But I don't like how this line of thought is often used to justify hate and discrimination.
>>872623
Slaves both in the Triangle Trade, in the Roman Empire, and elsewhere were commonly worked to death and given the most bare minimum of accommodations. That isn't really debatable. The fact that some kept them healthy enough to breed new slaves doesn't mean that millions of slaves weren't worked to death on sugar plantations, in mines, and elsewhere. Generally slave traders didn't give a single shit about the comfort or well being of slaves. If they could get more slaves to the Americas by filling their ship to the brim despite the higher death rate then they would fill their ship to the brim, because slave deaths don't matter. The only thing that mattered was how many heads they got to the Americas.
>>872504
And their tails give them more counterbalance
>>872638
Well one thing to keep in mind is that Romans also had educated and domestic slaves and the majority were employed in agricultural work. Mining was indeed terrible and often used as punishment for crimes too.
Working slaves to death doesn't really make sense from an economic point of view either. Quite recently Cynthia McLeod suggested that there must have been some sort of understanding between slaves and plantation workers, otherwise it would have been a constant scene of slave revolts and violence.
Surviving documents from companies involved in the slave trade made it quite clear that crew who maltreated slaves and made them unfit for sale were to be fired. Percentage wise the said crew of slaveships had a higher death rate than the slaves they were transporting.
I reiterate that I am not saying either slave trade or slavery was a lovely experience but all in all it wasn't a cause of constant rebellions and uprisings.
Is it true Dutch Jews were the masterminds of the slave trade? Both pioneering the business and becoming the most prominent slave traders?
>>872313
No.
Because back then the belief was that they were physically inferior and they said stuff to "explain" why then when blacks entered sports (even with segregation and entrance restrictions) it basically destroyed those stereotypes because they were decent.
>>872659
The vast majority of traded slaves went to Brazil and the Caribbean because slaves were often worked to death there. Sugar plantations have to process a lot of sugar cane quickly during harvest season and the process is hard and dangerous even when the climate isn't sweltering and full of malaria ridden mosquitoes. Despite the prominence of slavery in American history, relatively few slaves were sent to North America because slaves weren't being worked to death nearly as often.
Slaves did rebel, obviously. But it wasn't that common because of the various techniques slave owners used like mixing slaves that weren't from the same places, keeping them from forming families, and very generally dehumanizing them and making them feel powerless. Also it's hard to form a slave revolt when most of the slaves on a sugar plantation have only been there for a few years and will nonetheless be dead themselves in a few more years.
Loaded wuestion m8, nothing is indicating they are stronger.
>>872334
Nigger have you ever heard of dogs?
>>872498
>Eastern Europeans
The Klitschkos or Kovalev weren't from poor backgrounds.
>>872663
no where near pioneering mate...
>>872689
Dogs live for 6-12 years and are sexually mature at 5-12 months.
>>872663
>pioneering
>what are Arabs
>>872686
I am talking about central and middle America, Cynthia McLeod is actually from Suriname.
While I don't deny making them feel powerless was what some plantation owners did there were also those who allowed slaves to earn money to buy their freedom. Europeans (and pretty much everyone) had slavery at one point in time, in virtually all those societies slaves had families and children. Treatment wasn't good but apparently most of these societies didn't make it so bad as to constantly have uprisings and rebellions.
>>872721
The Eternal Anglo
>>872721
You didn't say Atlantic, you said slave trade.
>>872715
A lack of uprisings is not a testament to decent conditions. If anything the opposite is true. Some really horrible methods and ideologies were formed for the sole purpose of keeping slaves psychologically under the thumbs of their masters and prevent revolts. Even so, they did happen.
In west Africa the people are naturally stronger as they have more 'fast' muscle, therefore they appear strong and are gd a short distance running. In east Africa they have more 'slow' muslce and appear skinny, but are really gd at long distance running.
>>872739
Apologies. Part of me thought it went without saying seeing as how slavery existed long before the Dutch.
So did Dutch Jews pioneer and/or dominate the Atlantic Slave Trade?
>>872734
Where did you hear/read that?
>>872437
I actually learned that in high school biology. Just making sure if there's ANY truth to it.
>>872755
English Jews if anything.
>>872750
Building on this anon...
The "fast muscles" of West Africans are due to sickle cell disease, which helps against malaria. It hurts vascular health so long distance running (something humans are really really good at) was hard for them. To make up for it they evolved more "fast muscles".
>>872765
Why do you say that? I would imagine that is the first answer an American would jump to, but I've never actually seen any sources supporting the claim. However I have heard that Dutch Jews played a big part in the slave trade.
>>872769
>implying I'm American
>>872686
>The vast majority of traded slaves went to Brazil because slaves were often worked to death there.
Wait, what?
Source, please.
>>872755
Portugueses and Brazilians. All others pale in comparison. Mortality rate in Brazilian plantations were very high, specially if compared to the US, so there was need for a constant inflow of new slaves.
>>872772
Not really. I implied the possibility.
>>872780
Jews were overrepresented not only in British slave trade but in British inercontinental trade as a whole. I guess Anglos just really love Jews.
>>872659
>Quite recently Cynthia McLeod suggested that there must have been some sort of understanding between slaves and plantation workers, otherwise it would have been a constant scene of slave revolts and violence
Kek, there was no understanding, just simple witty people. Brazilians would separate the africans as not to let them together with their own ethnicity and gave privileges for Brazilian born slaves, not to mention that mullatoes and freed slaves were loyal to the "country" rather than to their "kin", so a lot of slave uprisings were put down with troops composing of these two late groups without much hassle.
>>872715
>""""middle""" america
>Suriname
>>872774
> Far more slaves were taken to South America than to the north. The South Atlantic and Caribbean economic system centered on producing commodity crops, and making goods and clothing to sell in Europe, and increasing the numbers of African slaves brought to the New World.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
After a few minutes of searching I couldn't find an estimate on sugar plantation mortality. I probably saw it on some documentary. And from what I know working on a sugar plantation involves handling razor sharp leaves, a short time to process all the sugar cane, dealing with machinery you could lose a hand in, dealing with scalding hot viscous fluids that could give you third degree burns, and that most sugar plantations were in regions full of malaria.
>>872313
To whom do you need to prove that survival of the fittest is a reality?
>>872813
Not him but the Guayanas are sometimes counted as central America.
>>872789
They weren't appointed to run those businesses by the English crown. They chose to deal in slaves themselves.
>>872827
That's simply wrong.
>>872828
They weren't appointed, but they were sure allowed. In continental Europe they weren't even allowed to join guilds for a long time.
>>872860
I think that time had passed by the hay day of the slave trade.
>>872457
It's not wrong, IIRC they're also in the North American football confederation instead of the South American one. I think it has to do with the fact they're culturally more similar to Caribbean islands than to say, Argentina.
>>872313
I work in medicine. African Americans are well known to doctors to be resistant to certain types of blood pressure medication, notable diuretics and ACE inhibitors. This is not the case with African immigrants, and it is postulated that the slaves who could retain more salt and water were the ones who survived the trip, and that genetic imprint persists to this day, much to the detriment of their descendents health
>>872602
>nothing humanity has ever done since the invention of language has impacted our evolution or gene pools yet
Well for one thing civilized people outbred primitive people by a large factor, changing the gene pool immensely. Global travel (or even just sea travel) completely changed gene flows and changed the gene pool immensely. The American gene pool is the perfect example of that.
>>872552
It was about 20% until 1800 when it dropped to about 5%
physical superiority is relative to environmental pressures.
blacks have a higher percentage of fast-twitch muscles (great for quick, visual based sports like football and basketball) while whites have more slow twitch muscles (great for longer sustained activity like hiking)
>>872766
lol
>>873015
It should be noted that Africa is the most genetically diverse continent, which is why Kenyans are also really good at long distance running.
>>873040
yes, another reason to ignore the eye and mind the body
>>872340
>West Africans (where most slaves came from) have more muscle mass on account of the rampancy of malaria in the area
Do they actually have more muscle though? This is news to me, so a source would be appreciated.
>>872313
Look at jamaicans at the olympics, they are fit as fuck.
Also being a music fan I like to see jamaican bands and I´ve seen 80 years old guys jumping on the stage for an hour. Shit, my grandma is 80 and can´t leave her bed
>>872602
First two paragraphs were fine until the whole comment went to shit with that last bit
>>872340
>blood disease causes cardiovascular adaptation
>its ok guys i went to khan academy
>>873084
Maybe I was just assuming based on what I know about muscle mass what the muscles are used for, but it is my understanding that more explosive power comes with more bulk. Long distance runners have more toned musculature.
Muscle mass wasn't the best way to differentiate them but I think it is nonetheless part of the distinction.
>>873097
>olympic athletes are very fit
>one old fart is in better shape than another old fart
thank you for these vital pieces of evidence
>>873105
Let me rephrase the question: Can you cite any studies which support the idea that West Africans are more muscular than people from other places due to genetic reasons?
>>873537
Well the prevalence of sickle cells in West Africa the resistance to malaria it confers are well established.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_cell_trait#Prevalence
Here is an article on the the effect sickle cells had on West African musculature.
http://caribbean.scielo.org/scielo.php?pid=S0043-31442006000300015&script=sci_arttext
>>872766
>It hurts vascular health so long distance running (something humans are really really good at) was hard for them.
So if humans are defined by endurance and toolmaking you're arguing they're lesser humans or I'm getting your message wrong?
>>872313
Among the many problems with that 'healthier' for the purposes of surviving a crossing does not match well with modern notions of being 'physically superior'.
>>872695
It's not just them. They're the pioneers, but my gym has 5 or 6 poor georgians looking for pro-careers.
>>872313
They were selectivity bred by slave owners. Its sad to say, but true.
>>872313
>African Americans are physically superior
t. Alberto Barbosa
>>872340
kenyan runners had a huge substance abuse scandal recently, which calls into question that whole stereotype about being natural runners
>>875944
Fuck no.
The most that could resemble selective breeding is "you have young nubile female slave and I have a strong buck. Lets make them fuck and have kids".
>>875983
Personally I doubt they all abused substances. If anything their notoriety as great runners is what pressured some of them to abuse substances. Afterall, it's pretty obvious why they are great runners. They have long legs and live at high altitudes.
>>873104
Blood pressure? I'm talking about oxygen transport. Sickle cells impede the transport of oxygen. This is more detrimental to prolonged exertions than short and intense exertions.
>>876111
>The most that could resemble selective breeding is "you have young nubile female slave and I have a strong buck. Lets make them fuck and have kids".
Or the fact that they just cull the ones with undesirable characteristics, and they make good obedient slaves marry. You do realize slave owners had the right to marry slaves against their will, right?
>>872602
what? Jews have practiced a pseudo-eugenics program since their inception, and it has apparently paid off quite well seeing as they have the highest average IQ.
>>876459
I haven't seen any evidence of it being a well documented process. It is little different then a free man not getting married nor having kids because he has a lame arm and can't pick up women. Drastic abnormalities are selected against no matter who you are. The point is that slaves were not selectively bred for strength or docility or anything like that.
>>876468
>Jews have practiced a pseudo-eugenics program
I'm calling bullshit.
>>876468
>what? Jews have practiced a pseudo-eugenics program since their inception, and it has apparently paid off quite well seeing as they have the highest average IQ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews#Ashkenazi_diseases
>>872602
The prevalence of alcohol leads to greater tolerance.
>>872602
Just plain wrong. Have you ever heard of lactose tolerance? The fastest spreading and most prevalent gene for its novelty that we know about.
>>872638
But they literally weren't. It's easier to make a bit of an effort to keep a slave alive than to have to deal with one with PTSD from the slave ship, educate him on what to do, where tools are, rules and regulations, geography of the plantation, etc., and pay the greatest ally sneaky merchant the price for the slave. And then you can keep them alive and breed your own for free and not have to pay sneaky merchant's shipping and handling fees.
>>872758
There has to be truth in it, it's inherently logical. It's just invalid in this case.
>>873040
In a way. The people living there have had more time to diverge from each other, since they all stayed in (sub-Saharan) Africa and no big population movements came in. However, they haven't faced as many different pressures as the people who moved out of Africa have, so none of their adaptations go in a radically different direction, except for sickle cell where malaria is prevalent.
>>873658
I associate eastern bloc guys with judo.
