How multicultural was the USSR? Was it disproportionately dominated by Russians, or could people from the provinces rise up the ranks of the Soviet Curia easily?
Obvious examples are Trotsky and Stalin, although both men worked very hard to ingratiate themselves into Russian culture and even changed their names to fit in.
>>870210
they are multicultural but not for multiculturalism
![412601-k-on-cute-mio-in-frilly-dress[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EOdggOk.jpg "412601-k-on-cute-mio-in-frilly-dress[1].jpg")
>>870210
Poor Mio-chan ;_;
Actually, Russians and Russian nationalism were more "oppressed" than everyone else.
>>870210
It was less Russian dominated and more Slavic dominated with a heavy Russian bias, and honestly I'd chock that up more to population disparity than any policy or cultural disposition.
>>870210
After Stalin all General Secretaries were Ukrainians and Jews.
>>870299
Who was Jewish?
It was more Slavic bias but it wasn't a matter of policy to discriminate
>>870243
Higher res pic pls
>>870330
Andropov and probably Gorbachev.
>>870580
?? That's false.
There wasn't a single ethnic Russian leader until Gorbachov
>>871011
Lenin was ethnically Russian.
He was only 1/4 Jewish, and said Jewish grandfather wasn't religiously or culturally Jewish, I don't think.
>>871031
His dad was a Kalmyk and his mom was of Swedish and German ancestry. He was no Russian at all.
>>871036
>His dad was a Kalmyk
really?
source?
>>871051
5 seconds in google mother fucker.
>>870210
It would have been a lot more multicultural if racial fracturing was needed to help the regime come to power. They went with "proletariat vs bourgeois" instead of "oppressed vs privileged" though, whatever fits the narrative of the times.
It's the same globalist regime trying to gain complete control over societies today, ain't nothing new under the sun.
>>871011
Kruschev and Brezhnev
>>871136
People say they were Ukrainians but pretty much everyone except Ukrainians knows Ukrainians are just Russians in denial.
>>871036
His dad was a Tatar. They're genetically closer to Russians than Kalmyks
>>871140
You're kind of right, but they were literal ethnic Russians. Kruschev wasn't even born in Ukraine.
>>870210
It managed to be a shit-sandwich on both ends.
Ivan is not wrong here:
>>870243
By the standards or 'rise up the ranks of the Soviet Curia', minority representation was actually disproportionate. The Soviet Republic system created a lot of busy work for ethnic politicians, and the method of Soviet Rule was to basically bribe the local elites with lots of Oil Money, building nice universities and the like.
At the same time, if you weren't part of the elite of this ethnic minority, learning Russian, climbing up the ranks of a predominantly Russian society, with an aim towards a career in Moscow...if you were an ordinary person looking to live the way you were used to...it fucking sucked. Various Russification campaigns, suppression and during Stalin mass relocation of your ethnicity were all possible.
>>871089
>5 seconds in google mother fucker.
Yeah no. All I'm getting is garbage stormfront shit and some site saying Lenin was possibly of Kalymk descent somewhere in his family line. Source or you're a liar.
>>871171
>stormfront
Did you actually get a link to stormfront or are you just a memeing little Arab?
>>871140
Ukrainians are Russians except when Russians want to complain about Kruschev
People could rise up the ranks but the general population was discriminated against by the Russians.
It was basically the Russian empire, but with communism.
>>871177
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t809022-3/
only the finest historical reseach
>>870210
Go read this book. In short, it was dominated by Russians in every way that counted.
http://www.amazon.com/Internationalism-Russification-Soviet-nationalities-problem/dp/0913460400
By the end of it the USSR was basically a Russian Empire.
>>870951
What false?
Andropov's mother was Jewish: Yevgenia Karlovna Fleckenstein. Father died earlier (1919) than mother (1927).
Gorbachev was Ukrainian from mother's side.
His father was officially Russian, but grandfather's name from father line was Moses, most likely baptized Jew.
>>871136
Kruschev - Ukrainian nationalist. Krusch means beetle in Ukrainian language.
Brezhnev was written as Ukrainian in many documents.
>>870210
Trotsky was Jewish
Stalin was Georgian
Kruschev was Ukrainian
Brezhnev was Ukrainian
Gorbachov was about the only Russian leader since Lenin.
The red army spoke 27 languages in world war 2. Mongolians defended moscow. And one of the most famous Soviet Generals Konstantin Rokossovsky was Polish.
Overall i'd say they were pretty multicultural and calling them just Russians during the cold war was probably quite silly actually.
>>870210
To my understanding on paper they were trying to be multicultural but in practice they just filled everything with Russians since they were seen as more loyal than everyone else.
>>871630
khruschev was born to russian parents in russia
brezhnev was born to russian parents who moved to ukraine
>>871650
Yeah sorry about Kruschev i guess we was quite russian, Brezhnev still grew up in ukraine.
Am i the only one who thinks its really pathetic when slavs start to debate what nationality their leaders were? Its like pointing out Hitler was an austrian or something.
The Central Asians were distrusted and seen as primitive.
>>870210
multiculturalism was theoretically suppose to be promoted by the local indigenous people. If tihis did not happen, local russian or russified elites took over the cultural and political scene of the SSR and the local culture was suppressed as a consequence.
>>870210
Russian view on nationalities is, just like many other things in Russia, mostly a front, a simulacrum. On paper, every single nation of the Soviet Union was supposed to be equal, having equal access to all means of development. In reality, there was a heavy Russian bias towards absolutely everything. Information? Most of it is in Russian. Entertainment? You bet it's in Russian. Studying? Russian too. Any office work? Also done in Russian. That was done in a very hypocritical way. "Equal opportunity for everyone" boiled down to prohibition of any protectionist measures for other cultures. Any attempts to equalize other languages with Russian were - and still are, Russians are notorious doublethinkers - met with whining about "oppression of Russian culture". Modern Belarus is a good example of that. On paper it has two state languages, but since Belarusian language isn't protected and Belarus is way smaller than Russia, nobody actually uses Belarusian.
Ideally for Russians other nations should exist only as sockpuppets that can be used as a response for accusations of Russification: like this >>871630 In Soviet Union non-Russians were only allowed a handful of activities related to their culture, mostly restricted to folk songs, dances and praise of a small amount of government-approved national heroes. Going beyond that would instantly bring up accusations of "Bourgeois nationalism". Even speaking in mother tongue would get you weird looks from everyone at best, accompanied with KGB surveillance. Other cultures were painted as underdeveloped, archaic and overall undesirable.
>>872365
The other pillar of Russification was encouragement of denationalization. Unless you were Jewish - USSR was a very anti-semitic place - or I think Asian, it was absolutely possible for you to have a decent career. The catch was denationalization. So long as you forget about anything tying you to your ancestors and call yourself Russian/Soviet, you're free to do whatever you want. Most of those people made the worst lapdogs of the regime. Kaganovich, a Russified Jew, was one of the worst anti-semites. Shcherbitsky, head of Communist Party of Ukraine, cracked down on anything Ukrainian so hard there was a popular saying: "When nails are trimmed in Moscow, fingers are chopped off in Kiev". In fact, today many "former" members of communist elite in Russia originating from Ukraine have the most vicious anti-Ukrainian position: Matvienko comes to mind. Zeal of a convert is a very real thing.
In addition, Soviets were really fond of constantly mixing the population: appointing people from Soviet Republics to Russia, so they would assimilate and vice versa, so they would help the locals assimilate. I could go into details about other ways used to suppress non-Russians but I'll stop here.
To sum it up, I don't understand why Russians seem to think Soviet Union "oppressed" Russian nationalism. The only things that were outlawed were two-headed chicken, Russian flags and outright denial of other nations' rights for existence; everything else had full support and freedom of action. Some denationalized people were allowed into executive positions but I really can't see how it's any different to people like von Plehve, Witte, Bezborodko, Nesselrode or von Benckendorff.
>>872366
>To sum it up, I don't understand why Russians seem to think Soviet Union "oppressed" Russian nationalism.
Because commies destroyed Russian culture and Russian church, motherfucker?
Let me guess, you're Balt or Ukrainian or Georgian?
>>872417
>commies destroyed Russian culture and Russian church
They didn't destroy shit because they were an integral part of it. Bolsheviks were a party of Russian and Russified proletariat first and foremost. Russian collectivism, xenophobia and love for czar were all carefully preserved. So was the church, by the way, thanks to Stalin. In fact, Bolsheviks even restored the patriarchy.
>>872455
Dzyuba, I: Internationalism or Russification?: A Study in the Soviet Nationalities Problem, Monad Press, 1974
>>872477
>Dzyuba, I
Ukrainian nazi
>>872365
> In reality, there was a heavy Russian bias towards absolutely everything. Information? Most of it is in Russian. Entertainment? You bet it's in Russian. Studying? Russian too. Any office work? Also done in Russian.
What are you talking about? There were books, movies, newspapers, TV and radio stations on native languages. There was education (school and high) on native languages. All official information was on Russian and native languages.
>>870210
Well Soviet apparatus had almost every ethnic group in, Cheka was organised by a Pole, the Red Army by a Jew etc. etc.
Then again both Poles and Jews lived in Russia/Soviet Union and it wasn't because they came here, nope, Russia came to them, which is unlike what people understand as multiculturalism.
As for whether the system itself was heavily in favour of certain nationality... well let's say it differed between the decades. Generally speaking the old maxime that you can be, dunno, Udmurtian, but first of all you're Russian stayed as it was only Russian was replaced by the codeword Soviet. However the reality was different, Ukrainian nationalism was for instance greatly repressed while Byelorussian had its first schoolbooks printed in SSR(which didn't lasted to long, after WW2 they've got the Ukrainian treatment), while Caucasus people were left on their own when it came to it(as long as they stayed in their republics).
>>870210
> even changed their names to fit in
Did Lenin (Ulyanov) also "change his name to fit in"? Because you are not making much sense.
>>871186
> People could rise up the ranks but the general population was discriminated against by the Russians.
Nope. That's post-Soviet propaganda. The ruling elite of national republics was all local.
They did discriminate against each other, though. For example, Latvian SSR had quite a lot of anti-Latgalian (one of the minorities) policies introduced by ethnical Latvians.
>>871630
>And one of the most famous Soviet Generals Konstantin Rokossovsky was Polish.
Half-Polish. His mother was Russian.
>>870210
So fucking weird you think that is a quality worth researching.
>>872682
> after WW2 they've got the Ukrainian treatment
And what would that be? Because you are making it sound as if Belorussian and Ukrainian languages were forbidden or something.
There were textbooks printed, schools were working, passports and documents made in Ukrainian/Belorussian.
>>872707
1914
>>872688
Feliks Dzierżyński, the founder of CheKa (NKVD/KGB) - 100% Polish. Also a (minor) aristocrat. He even went to the same school as Pilsudsky did.
>>872724
Would you mind verbalising your opinion?
>>872731
I'll get to it, trying to find proper map.
but short story short, 20th century was dominated by Soviet union for the country and suddenly, many russians appeared there
was it settlement or assimilation?
>>872735
>>872731
This one is good
>>872725
Dzierżyński and Rokossovsky are two different people.
>>872735
Do you really believe that if soviets wanted to genocide your baltic butt you would still be here to whine about it? They had like four decades.
Geee you guys are worse than that popular armenian feminist on yt.
>>872756
So explain how is it possible that in an area which was ethnically Byelarussian by 1914 it's hard to find a person speaking that language in quite large part of the country, a mere 102 years later out of which the years 1922-1991(69) were all about soveits, and 1944-1991(47) were harsher on the Byelorussia. Did the Byelorussians did it themselves? How come then that people aged 40+(that is - the people who's education was done by the time USSR has fallen), who lived in SSR so tolerant towards their nationality don't make any difference in demographics? Belarus is aging society, it would be logical for them to have lots of influence on it.
Vata never change.
>>872756
I dont he mentioned genocide at all. Unless you think assimilation is genocide.
![29991_600[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KVSVrLk.png "29991_600[1].png")
>>872707
>There were textbooks printed, schools were working, passports and documents made in Ukrainian/Belorussian.
More like "printed" and "working". Here's a graph of university textbooks printed in UkSSR in Russian (red) and Ukrainian (black). Y is percentage, X is years.
>>872814
>ivanko333
>livejournal
>location ukraine
It's your blog?
>>872825
No, I can't be assed to find publisher data.
>>872829
Do you at least get monetary contributions for your work?
>>872814
> 1976
> 95% in Russian
> 15% in Ukrainian
Pardon my scepticism, but I'd like something more tangible.
>>872742
Because they wanted to speak Russian. Should Soviets force them to speak Ukrainian as present Ukrainian government does?
>>872894
>Because they wanted to speak Russian.
And that was because they were so enamoured in Russia, right?
>>872901
Realistically nobody want to spend time to learn meme languages such as ukrainian if given the chance, not even ukrainians.
>>872925
I think you just defeated your own point by shitposting.
>>872901
Because it gave them access to Russian culture.
>>872887
>Ukraine in 20th Century/Stagnation and Reform Attempts/Russification
>Thus, between 1960 and 1980 amount of magazines published in Ukrainian dropped from 46% to 19%, between 1958 and 1980 amount of books published in Ukrainian dropped from 60% to 24%.
Subtelny, O. Ukraine: A History, 4th Edition, University of Toronto Press, Nov 10, 2009
>inb4 proofs aren't proofs
>>872690
Why?
I think, there are 3 people arguing with Ukrainian.
>>872779
> ethnically Byelarussian by 1914
That's a conjecture. Data is based on census of 1897 which is hardly credible source. Russian Empire was semi-feudal state with little to no proper nationalism. People didn't really have much of an ethnic identity further than "I am Russian, from (enter place of birth)". There was a lot of evidence that people misidentified themeselves (for example, ethnic Belorussians claiming to be Lithuanians and thinking that their Belorussian language is Lithuanian).
Also, Central Powers wanted to create puppet state in Ukraine. It's a small wonder they've had made such a map.
>>872981
>People didn't really have much of an ethnic identity further than "I am Russian, from (enter place of birth)".
Not that guy but 1897 census counted spoken language instead of ethnic identity.
