Hypothetically:
If God is real and Christianity is right, does Nietzsche have any value?
>>830254
A man that ends up in the looney bin has no value regardless.
>>830282
If Jesus was alive today he would be in the looney bin.
Sure, since his philosophy heavily intersect's with Dostoevsky's, who was extremely religious.
>>830291
Why?
>>830254
>If...Christianity is right
Which brand of christianity? Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant non-denominational? Unitarian? Step up nigga
>>830307
Orthodox is the only kind that hasn't added or removed any dogma from the start, so I'd say it is the clearest representation, with other faiths less Christian by degrees.
>>830298
What do you think happens to nutters with delusions that they are god and the world is about to end when they come flying on the clouds?
>>830315
Okay, so of the "orthodox" you have:
>Eastern Orthodox.
>Oriental Orthodox.
>Assyrian Church
>Eastern Catholic Church
Which of these do you think has the specific, truly divine dogma?
Is this a thinly veiled Constantine thread?
>>830307
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
This Christianity. Any branch that can proclaim this in good faith. It's an easy enough definition.
>>830343
I'm not the OP
Eastern and Oriental are on the same exact page on everything, literally the only difference is that Antiochian theologians used physis (nature) to mean attributes, whereas Alexandria theologians used it to mean hypostasis (existence).
Assyrian and Eastern Catholic are align with the innovations of the Papist Church
>>830254
>humility was invented by the jews to destroy europe and I don't believe in it
--Fred NEET
>>830351
This
>>830376
Threadly reminder that Orthodox Christians are heretics and don't hold to the faith of Jesus Christ
HOL UP
*eats gentle food*
SO I BE SAYIN
*makes absolute statements about human nature*
THERE AIN'T NO HUMAN NATURE
That's the only way he has value.
>>830254
Nietzsche once said that if the Christian 'God' existed than he would be no God at all.
>>830477
God BTFO
BTFO
T
F
O
>>830323
Well if Jesus was alive today. It's the second coming and your fucked son.
>>830516
I'm glad we can both agree that Jesus is not alive also...
*you're
>>830254
Of course he would, just look at that mustache!
>>830485
That is the most euphoric picture I've ever seen.
>>830477
How is this anything but pettiness and spitefulness on Nietzsche's part?
If the Christian God exists he's both omnipotent and omniscient. There can be no rebellion from him, because he knows all things. Any attempt you might make to deviate from his plan, he would already have foreseen, and he would either have already plotted out your rebellion and incorporated it into his plan, or he would effortlessly and seamlessly modify his plan to accommodate your rebellion, with no change in the ultimate outcome.
Nietzsche is no better than Lucifer in the Christian universe. He is a worthy foe and a staunch adversary, but he does no lasting harm to the Almighty. If anything, his rebellion only glorifies God.
>>830254
Nietzche value, aside from his views on christian religion and ideology, resides in his excellent insights of the greek culture through its theatrical expressions. He helped understand the roots of western phiolosophy and culture with his analysis of the dualistic spirit of the greek culture, dyonisiac and apollineic. And even if god exists Nieztche critic wasn't metaphisical, he said the idea of god is dead inside of people, therefore god is dead, it doesn't care if the thing "god" is actually there or not
>>830582
It's good that it made you very happy.
>>830477
Everyone who has read the bible cannot but at least question whether this god character is not in fact some absolute rascal.
>>830661
The you find out that this god Yahvey is in fact nothing but hypostatized Jewish mentality, namely pure, unmixed rascalness.
>>830592
Carl Jung wrote up a book called Answers to Job which explores how God 'thinks' treating him as a real character.
According to him God being all knowing and omnipresent is exactly what holds God back. God cannot know paritculars, he can only know univereses. This is because he is never seening things from his own perspective but from all at the same time. He beleive that God struggles with the concept of self-identity.
He also beleives that God (like everyone else) has an evil side which he displays in Job. Job is the oldest bible story chronologically so Jung see's it as God in his earliest state of mind, he lacks empathy and can't understand Job's suffering. Satan is infact in aspect of God in the story which represents his oppressed love of evil.
Just like Hegel said God needs to become singular in order to learn more. The only way he can learn what it is like to be singular is to BECOME singular, to temporary renounce his omni-presense. So God made himself human, so that he could learn what it is like to be one of us. God in the form of Jesus learned empathy and evolved as a character by interacting with humans. His death on the cross is his atonement for his own evil in the Old Testament.
>>830529
Holy shit man, you have to be 18 or older to post here.
>>830773
>Carl Jung
Oh, you mean that guy who formulated completely baseless pseudoscience and pure bullshit? Yeah we should definitely listen to what he has to say.
>Just like Hegel said God needs to become singular in order to learn more.
Hegel didn't say this.
>>830323
I don't know about them, but someone teaching of live, patience and of training virtues - while resurrecting dead, healing the incurable, and doing miraculous works would become pretty popular, pretty quick.
>>830661
I like the way you worded this post
>>830254
If God is real and Christianity is right, then the entirety of life has no value.
There's a lot more to his philosophy than his position on Christianity. So, yes.
>>831071
>Gen 1:31 - "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good."
nah family
>>831112
That sentence means fucking nothing. If Christianity is right, then this life is a glorified waiting room, in which all creative thought that is not directly related to earning entrance to heaven is irrelevant and in many cases damaging to you, and everything except the "beyond" is reduced to a pointless distraction.
>>831128
>implying we won't be resurrected BODILY
>implying Jesus wasn't resurrected BODILY
Yes its called a Nihilistic-Christian
Even if its all true What happens happens? All in Gods hands kinda thinking that makes good Christians lazy and uncaring individuals that only pick on gays and unwed mothers.
>>831137
If that was the case then it's even MORE retarded. What is the god damn point of this part of existence then? Why bother creating and having this part? Is God a sadistic asshole? Why would I want to follow that faggot then?
>>831150
Sorry, I don't follow. You sound pretty nihilistic, breh.
Continuing the theme supposedly the we can all be closet Nihilists until the day we arrive before God and begin our appointed eternal destiny of worship. For that is what we were ultimately created to do. And the elders stood up to throw down their crowns before the King of Kings as the virgins proclaim and sing his new songs while all of creation rejoices before his presence.
>>831173
Of course you don't, you're a dumb Christfag that can't into logic. The entire picture of life that Christianity paints makes no fucking sense at all. Christianity and its God is a self-refuting principle.
>>831197
You haven't said anything particularly logical
>>831197
I'm not a Christian. It's just an interesting topic. I think you just have a poor understanding of it, as Nietzsche did. He was undoubtedly a genius, though. He's still my favorite philosopher next to Aristotle.
>>831202
....lol, right. You're hopeless.
>>831206
Nietzsche had German Lutheran ministers in his family and his grandfather was a Protestant scholar. His understanding was crystal clear, but directed towards his knowledge from those particular churches.
I'll repeat it again, if Christianity is right and God is real, then this life has no value at all. It is stripped of value. My creative power to bestow new values is thus rendered pointless. And if I am meant to lead a Christian life in order to gain admittance to heaven, then why do I have to sit and wait here if I am already doing this? Why does God make those already leading Christian lives continue to stay in this waiting room? Why does the test exist? He is a dickhead if this were the case, and I'd rebel against his stupid shit.
>>831232
>German Lutheran ministers
You see, that's the problem. I'm coming from an Ortho understanding, which is the one I'm chiefly interested in. They can be said to be a more "authentic" Christianity since they predate Lutheranism. I don't really don't care what Lutherans believe, and I agree with Nietzsche's low estimation of Protestants (and German culture lol).
>blah blah blah
Yeah, that's nice. Like I said these points of view are based on misunderstanding. Since I'm not a Christian I wouldn't consider myself qualified to "educate" you. But you should do some reading on your own. You might find it edifying.
>>831232
>....lol, right. You're hopeless.
It's not my fault you can't into logic, but think you have
>>831232
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
John 17:15
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
"17:11-16 Christ does not pray that they might be rich and great in the world, but that they might be kept from sin, strengthened for their duty, and brought safe to heaven. The prosperity of the soul is the best prosperity. He pleaded with his holy Father, that he would keep them by his power and for his glory, that they might be united in affection and labours, even according to the union of the Father and the Son. He did not pray that his disciples should be removed out of the world, that they might escape the rage of men, for they had a great work to do for the glory of God, and the benefit of mankind. But he prayed that the Father would keep them from the evil, from being corrupted by the world, the remains of sin in their hearts, and from the power and craft of Satan. So that they might pass through the world as through an enemy's country, as he had done. They are not left here to pursue the same objects as the men around them, but to glorify God, and to serve their generation. The Spirit of God in true Christians is opposed to the spirit of the world"
http://biblehub.com/john/17-15.htm
>>830282
Hello. My name is Georg Cantor. I died many years ago after making some of the most famous and integral proofs in mathematics. I arose from the dead to provide one last proof: a counter example to the assertion that people who go insane have no value.
When you understand my life and work, all will be clear.
>>830254
It's a stupid hypothetical and deserves no response.
>>831248
>But you should do some reading on your own
I have, motherfucker. I love Jesus. But I love the real Jesus, the Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas, who is purely Buddhistic and has nothing to do with all the bullshit so-called Christians have spouted since. The entire notion of the "beyond" is a fraud, a massive miscalculation on existence beginning with Plato, that drink-mixing snake in the grass. The erection of imaginary tablets in the sky claimed to have descended from this "beyond" (its origin actually being that of man entirely) has enslaved humanity for millennia and continues to taint it to this day. Of course, this is natural.
Christianity makes a nice lullaby for the weak. That is all it is, this self-induced respite by the weak. The strong, since the dawn of existence, and always known better... that they are God, that God is the universe, that anything "beyond" the universe is a joke, that "to be" is a vital illusion and critical prerequisite to all action, and that the illusion is indeed real.
>>831280
Ok, then.
>>831280
Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. If you can't deal with that aspect of him, he's not for you.
>>831336
Yes he was. He was also just a man. I am also God Incarnate, and I am also just a man.
>>830870
When discussing the personality of the Christian God is there any alternative to "pseudoscience and pure bullshit"
At least he backs up his theories with historical and textual analysis of God's theologians, holy book, and popular beleifs about him....which is also the only source any Christian would have FOR god at all.
That type of historical analysis is the closest thing you can ever get to understanding a religion.
>>831339
No, that's wrong, sorry. You are not God. You will never be God, not until you are raised from the dead and united to God in full mystical communion, as the Orthodox maintain.
The created never surpasses the Creator, since the Creator is necessarily superior. It's simply not within the nature of the created.
>>831360
>You will never be God, not until you are raised from the dead and united to God in full mystical communion, as the Orthodox maintain.
The Orthodox made an error here. We are never not God, it's nonsensical to say that one has to become re-united with oneself. One never becomes separated from oneself.
>>831380
The idea that you and God are the same is pantheism. That's not Christian.
God loves us, God cares for us, God became us, but God is not us.
>>831410
Jesus was not a Christian as it is understood today. He was a Buddhist pantheist.
>>831280
>thinks sself-knowledge is the key to all meaning
>goes full-Gnostic
You never go full Gnostic
>>831343
>When discussing the personality of the Christian God is there any alternative to "pseudoscience and pure bullshit"
Yes actually, there is.
>At least he backs up his theories with historical and textual analysis of God's theologians, holy book, and popular beleifs about him....which is also the only source any Christian would have FOR god at all.
Except he doesn't. He "analyzes" using his pseudo scientific ideology that has been repeatedly shown to be bullshit since.
>That type of historical analysis is the closest thing you can ever get to understanding a religion.
Yeah, if you completely discard reading about the religion's history, the writing of its theologians, or the philosophers that existed within its intellectual movements. If all of those things are removed, then I guess pseudoscience bullshit would be pretty close to the top.
>>830254
Yes. Because he heavily critiques egalitarianism, democracy and nationalism. All of the best parts of Nietzche stay even if he was wrong about Christianity.
>>831429
Jesus, the fictional character created by Paul the Apostle as a mash-up of random parts of previous religions is now also a Buddhist pantheist? Damn this is definitely one of the best fictional characters of all time.
>>830315
>added a strict code for religious depictions as a compromise following the iconoclasm controversies of the 8th-9th centuries
>thinks this isn't dogmatic
>>831691
Mashup of Augustus and Zoroaster and abiding by the laws of he Essens. Prove me wrong.
>>831429
>Buddhist
>pantheist
>>831729
Perhaps throw in some Dionysos (turning water into wine) and totem
>>830592
Well, Nietzsche probably wouldn't try to live to rebel against God, seeking reproof like a christian seeks approvation, that would be still a form of dependence.
>>831624
>Yes actually, there is.
If you are not understanding a "God" by looking at the history of what people beleived about him what are you using?
>his pseudo scientific ideology that has been repeatedly shown to be bullshit since
Last I checked the idea of subconsciousness symbolism is still a huge part of the field. If you want to see his work in action you need only turn on a TV. Marketing is basically applied psychology of the unconscious.
>if you completely discard reading about the religion's history, the writing of its theologians, or the philosophers that existed
Which Jung doesn't. It's the cornerstone of his arguements. You are actually in agreement with him it seems.
Have you actually read any Jung (and no skimming wikipedia doesn't count) are you just spouting bullshit?
>>830254
>If God is real and Christianity is right, does Nietzsche have any value?
Yea, his analysis of Christianity as a nihilistic religion is technically correct no matter if Christianity is correct or not.
