Why didn't the United States help out their French Republican brothers across the sea in their struggle against the European tyrants?
France alone was keeping the flames of liberty burning bright while besieged on all sides by despots, and the US just sort of sat back and watched (and even sided with the British over them once)
What the fuck?
What a bunch of useless assholes.
>>812395
Because the government helped them out, yet they were still sympathetic to the cause of the revolutionaries
It would have been a real piss in the face to Louis if the people whom he accumulated debts helping out went and overthrew them
Also, the American revolution is closer to a mass, foreign-backed tax evasion than a struggle against tyranny
Because the United States was fighting against Britain for independence on its own soil. It didn't want to overthrow king George in England--just kick him out of American land. France was choosing to antagonize other countries and invade them in order to overthrow their monarchies.
Also, pic related.
1. America was a tiny ass country that had just gotten started and joining a war against the major powers of the day wasn't conducive to it survival
2. Adams and his party were far more favorable to relations with Britain, due to the cultural and linguistic links between the countries
3.>>812399
4. The American Republic was basically aristocratic, and land owner of standing and wealth were the only ones with real power. So they didn't want to support a movement that might inspire you're average American pleb to start lopping off heads
5. The aforementioned head lopping. Once the Terror was in full swing, Americans could not justify supporting such a violent movement.
>>812408
>the United States was fighting against Britain for independence on its own soil
>France was choosing to antagonize other countries and invade them in order to overthrow their monarchies
This child-tier understanding of history
>>812408
>France was choosing to antagonize other countries and invade them in order to overthrow their monarchies.
WEW
>still buying the monarchist line about France being at fault for the wars
>>812399
>>812399
>It would have been a real piss in the face to Louis if the people whom he accumulated debts helping out went and overthrew them
yeah that would have been fucked.
>well sorry that your own economy tanked almost solely because of you deciding to help us in our fight against Britain
>and sorry that we never even attempted to pay back the massive debts you incurred fighting for us, which was one of the agreements you made when you said you would help
>but
>off with your head
The founders thought that Rousseau was a barbarian and they generally stood against his theory of nature.
>>812395
was saving you guys from the gnocchis not good enough
>>812420
So America was basically the equivalent of spineless liberals today who support progressive and revolutionary movements until they take actual action beyond 'peaceful protest'?
>>812395
>we take issue with French privateers stealing our shit
>we send dimplomats to Republican France to keep this from spiraling into a war
>France demands a bribe and a loan before they'll even speak with our representatives
>the French are surprised when we get mad about this and end the Franco-American alliance
Because the French are enormous faggots who irritate their allies to no end.
How is that in any way our fault again?
>>812441
They despised the philosophical roots of the French revolution. The French desired a return to the equality of the state of nature, the Americans knew the state of nature to be terrible, so they designed a government that would let the best rule the lesser, but not tyrannize them.
>>812441
The french revolution was kind of bad. They killed so many people!
>>812441
Not really, the values of the American and French revolutions, while similar on the surface, were fundamentally different. In fact there's nothing really revolutionary about the American Revolution at all, the power structures in the new American republic, were very similar to those in England, just subtracting the nobility and monarchy. The landed gentry were still the main holders of power in the country. While the French Revolution was about equalization of the classes and tearing down all the old organs of government, many of the founding father of the American Revolution, probably would've been executed or had their property seized by the French Revolution, the French Revolution was far more similar to communist revolutions of the 20th century than the independence movements in America during the 18th and 19th century.
it may have had something to do with the fact that the French Revolution involved executing a substantial amount of people, including nuns who didn't want to violate their religious beliefs, royal women with no political power, and people (including old ass 80+ year old men and women) who did nothing than have the misfortune of being an aristocrat? Even American revolutionary figures were imprisoned and in least one case set to be executed.
In revolutionary America, you may have gotten tarred and feathered, or shunned to the point where your ass decided to leave town, or even beat up if you were a man, but you didn't get legally executed along with your entire family because you didn't support the concept of rebelling against the king.
Fuck that shit, America out.
>>812466
>How is that in any way our fault again?
Maybe because the reason France sent privateers to harass your ships in the first place is because you suddenly stopped repaying the money you owed them at the moment they needed it the most?
>>813336
>In 1795, the United States was finally able to settle its debts with the French Government with the help of James Swan, an American banker who privately assumed French debts at a slightly higher interest rate.
Which was two full years before all of what I mentioned happened.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1784-1800/loans
>>812408
>Austria declare wars on france after king louis XVI's treason
>prussia, great britain spain and every fucking entity in europe follow them, declaring restoring bourbons on their throne at any cost, thus antagonizing even more the newly found republic
>france started it all.
you sir, should fuck off
>>813471
history.state.gov
it's like using the dprk's national website to justify 'muricans being total evil imperialists.
>>812395
Because they're filthy fucking kikes who saw a way of escaping their debts
>Divide your people because you don't wanna pay taxes
>Get the French to spend a bunch of money helping your ass
>promise to pay it back
>don't pay it back
>watch the revolution from the sidelines
>lmao new rulers so we dun need to pay no money
>>813496
What treason?
>>812395
The Federalists, including Hamilton, mainly wanted to get on the good side of the Brits as one of the big powers and economies. That and they had an official policy of neutrality in world affairs. Most Americans were cool with it until the Terror started, then they turned on it aside from the Jeffersonians.
In fact some of the Democratic-Republicans wanted some of those revolutionaries to come over here to agitate against the government and they're totally oppressive taxes. This was part of what led to the Alien and Sedition Acts. Jefferson himself supported the Revolution well into the Terror. The Terror was the source of his tree of liberty quote IIRC.
>>813505
They owed money to the king, not to "France". If anything they should've helped the monarchy.
>>813496
>Austria declare wars on france after king louis XVI's treason
What?
France declared war on Austria first, while the king was still on the throne, because Austria wouldn't remove its troops from French borderlands, participated in the Declaration of Pillnitz, and was supporting French emigre armies led by Louis XVI's relatives, despite the fact that he told his brothers to stop raising armies and threatening his country.
>>812395
Because the basis of the French revolution was evil.
>>812480
>the best rule the lesser
>MY grandpappy had a grant from the King/Governor/Trading Co.
>YOUR grandpappy was an indentured servant
It's just a meritocracy of merit guys :^)
>>812399
As an American conservative (sort of nationalist), I kinda agree with this guy. The American Revolution was basically a huge tax evasion which Locke and Adam Smith's ideas aggravated to a great extent.
But in my opinion (please note it's my opinion) France only helped the US for the cause of weakening British dominance on the North American continent (wanted to get even for the 7 years war). The monarchy had no noble intentions of liberty and worldwide revolution, and in fact bankrupted itself by joining the war.
Saying the USA are assholes for not joining a war against France is batshit crazy. Logistically, the new republic lacked the gunboats and transport ships to contest with Britain when attacking the main continent.
Furthermore, it was an enlightened Republic, built by the people (arguable). Unification of the colonies proved unstable (evidence: Results of the Articles of Confed. Whiskey Rebellion, and that other Rebellion where debtors seized Mass. Law offices, forgot though) in the beginning. Immediately going to war with European powers across the Atlantic would require manpower (the weak federal government lacked the ability to draft, even with the constitution, and the funds to support an overseas war) and excessive taxation, which would most likely foment into an early civil war (pure speculation) or incredibly unrest/disunion due to the war having no true vested interests of the states.
People often forget America wasn't really an influential world power until the late 19th century, and we were kind of a backwater Republic until then.
>>812395
>European tyrants meme
I bet you think it was tyrannical when your mommy made you eat your vegetables
>>812395
Because of the Cult of reason
>>815901
The Russian Tsar and the Austrian Emperor were definitly tyrants
The British king not so much
>>815901
They were tyrants by virtue of being monarchs.
Monarchs are all scum.
>>815797
No one blame the US for not entering the war alongside France
They were not powerful enough to even make a difference anyway.
What the US are assholes for is suddenly stopping to repay the money they owed to France at the very moment it needed it the most (at war with all Europe).
>>812395
>trusting americunts
not even once
also, not only didn't they help their political "allies" but they even attacked france because muh petty debts
>>812395
because they were supported by the king, not the filthy republican rebel scum
lol not only that, but after France had helped America in its war against Britain, and now it was France's turn to be attacked by Britain, what did America do? They started trading with Britain. They even fought a quasi-war against France over it.
Meanwhile Americans still complain like it's another Shoah about France not letting America occupy France forever out of gratitude for WW2.
>>816010
>>816016
>WAHHH MOMMY I DON'T WANNA REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Republicans confirmed for children
>>812395
Yeah, I'm sure they could have really helped out and landed a big expeditionary force with that navy they didn't have.
>>816132
>Meanwhile Americans still complain like it's another Shoah about France not letting America occupy France forever out of gratitude for WW2.
This tiggers me so much
I can't imagine the shitstorm if France had tried to impose permanent military bases on US soil after having liberated the colonists from Britain
Yet, Americans somehow felt entitled to it after liberating France from Germans
>>816142
>BUT I WANNA KEEP MY FEUDAL PRIVILEGES DADDY HAD THEM I WANT THEM TOO WAAAAAAAAH
Look I can do this too.
>>812395
Americans cannot escape their anglo blood, they are perfidious and speak in doubletalk.
They called their rebellion a "revolution" and yet when an actual revolution against the old ways of thinking happened "o wait not gonna pay u money anymore"
>>813502
Right, because the US state department totally has a reputation for spreading false propaganda on its educational website. You can feel free to look it up, it's completely true.
>>816028
See >>813471. Our debts were paid. The frogs gave no shits and needlessly provoked us anyways, so we ended our alliance with them. We were still willing to send them plenty of goods, but then Napoleon used our attempts to negotiate free passage to France for our ships to maneuver us into war with the Brits. Fuck the Republic desu.
France was the only country that recognized their independence. Catholic europe believed it to still be spanish portuguese by agreement. Protestant Europe believed it was still part of England. Athiest france said screw everyone i recognize your independence.
>>816010
>Austrian emperor
Which one?
>>816511
Any republic that aids a king over other people seeking liberty deserves to be destroyed.
>>816523
>other people seeking liberty
Yeah, that's why they executed nuns and old people. Liberty!
>>812466
Indeed. All the way through WWII Charles de Gaulle was such a douche to everyone that he didn't get invited to any of the "big three" conferences. Note that there was a big three but not a big four.
>>816527
>WAAAAAH REVOLUTIONS DON'T CONSIST OF HOLDING HANDS AND SINGING AND PICKING FLOWERS
You don't stop to consider the merits and personalities of individuals during a revolution. You judge their class or social group and the threat it poses as a whole. Clergy and aristocrats, regardless of age or gender, were the enemy.
>>812395
Because the French were antagonist little pisspots who stirred up trouble in America, personally insulted George Washington, and generally acted like petulant children. Demanding that a country that had basically no military join in a fight against foreign powers.
Classic apologists for French republicanism.
>>816523
>owe money to the king
>repay him by aiding his opponents
Are you legit brainfucked
>>816532
>WAHHHHH OTHER GOVERNMENTS AREN'T ALLOWED TO SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO AID A GOVERNMENT THAT'S KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF 'FREEDOM' WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
You don't kill people based on their class or social group and then throw a fit because other governments think it's fucked up.
>>816532
Classes are a spook
>>813704
The king managed the economy of france
Do frenchies consider ww1 and ww2 to be repayment?
We made a killing from the marshall plan btw. The soviets needed to take an extreme stance on it but they didnt.
>>816523
>seeking liberty
Is that why they installed an Emperor on the throne?
>>816532
and when its your turn, I hope you feel perfectly alright with it.
>>816186
But why not today? Its not like wed invade France.
>>816574
Without king, there was no France.
It's like owing a guy money, then someone kills the guy and thinks you owe him now. Doesn't work like that.
>>816563
It wasn't the king that came to America and fought alongside the Continentals. The king didn't personally bottle up the British at Yorktown. French soldiers did all that. All the king did was give the orders and sit in Versailles.
>>816532
You bourgeoise shits sure are wacky.
>>816582
This is a juvenile argument. Sure, I wouldn't like to be killed, and would probably do everything in my power not to be, but if I was an aristocrat or a priest it would still be the reasonable course of action for revolutionaries to take.
My personal feelings are irrelevant.
>>816587
It's like you're actually stupid.
>>816580
They didnt really choose that. Napnap was just a deschbag that named himself king.
>>816580
Bonaparte's betrayal and dictatorship are irrelevant. I'm talking about the revolution before it got fucked by Thermidor.
>>816587
Without the king, those French soldiers would not have been there at all.
>>816590
nah
>>816590
>it's a reasonable course of action to kill an 83 year old woman who did nothing but be born into a specific family
>b-b-but why didn't the Americans help them
>>812395
Ok the french economy did not tank solely because of the american revolution as many people in this thread have stated. The financial system was in shambles since the late sun kings reign
>>816586
>Without king, there was no France.
That's wrong (as proven later), but the contrary is true
The king's money steamed from the work provided by its subjects
The French people literally dunded the US revolution through their hard work
>>812395
The Eternal Anglo, evolved.
>>816142
you know what happens
ah ca ira...
>>816614
And you're a fucking retard. The soldiers got paid, the one person who was owed was the king.
>>813554
Trying to make war against his own people.
>>816636
>The soldiers got paid
With the money the king got from the French people
Do you think taxes were invented under the Republic?
Cretin
>>816602
Wouldn't it be worse to kill a younger woman, since an old one has already lived a long life?
Anyway, you have to kill all aristocrats. Nobles breed more nobles (granted, 83 year old women don't, but the majority of nobles killed weren't old women. The majority of people in general killed weren't nobles or priests either, which was unfortunate).
>>816607
>Ok the french economy did not tank solely because of the american revolution as many people in this thread have stated. The financial system was in shambles since the late sun kings reign
The economy was in poor shape when Louis XVI took the throne, sure. With about 28 million livre deficit every year. It was recovering with even the limited reforms he got passed early on, as well as his cuts to the court, until he agreed to help the American revolutionaries. The American Revolution resulted in just over 3 billion livres of debt for France.
>>816644
>da peepul
Fuck off.
>>816653
>muh hierarchy
>>816651
>Wouldn't it be worse to kill a younger woman, since an old one has already lived a long life?
Why would it be better to kill an older person?
>>816660
Because you're not taking as much from them. They were probably gonna die soon anyway.
>>816659
You're the one crying like a bitch here.
>>812395
cause George Washington said so:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_Act_of_1794
>>816651
There's literally nothing wrong with aristocracy
>>816710
There's everything wrong with aristocracy.
I wish the French had managed to kill every last duke priest bishop king princess duchess or whatever in Europe. Maybe they would have, if it wasn't for the Thermidorians and then that fucking rat Napoleon.
>>816710
this is your proper place
<---
>>816664
That doesn't mean it's suddenly not horrid to imprison and execute them.
>>816721
All this teenage rage kek
>>816721
>supporting Robespierre
>supporting the Terror
>>816989
But anon, supporting the terror is literally something only an edgy teenager would do. It's largely considered to have been huge mistake, as the excesses of the terror doomed the Republic. Killing everyone who disagrees with you isn't exactly conducive to a functioning and stable democracy.
>>817021
Yes it's much better to let your enemies organise , arm themselves and create civil wars like that of vendee
>>817048
Careful anon,you might cut yourself with all that edge
>>812395
Doesn't help when the French want bribes and other garbage before they'll even receive our ambassadors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYZ_Affair
French revolution wanted to up turn society. The American revolution was more a civil war. Originally fought by people who wanted to be recognized as proper Englishmen by their fellow Englishmen. Only when that failed, did it become a "revolution".
>>817048
Why did the Vendee rebel? Because their rights were violated, and because they opposed the execution of the king which by the republics own laws was unconstitutional.
The French Revolution is not black and white, aristocrats baaaad and revolutionaries gooood. In time you'll be mature enough to realize this
>>817048
>all or even most of the 16,594 people killed by the national abbreviator were planning to start a civil war
Well memed.
>>812395
>france
>flames of liberty
>one of the most authoritarian and centralized states in europe, definitely in western europe
>flames of liberty
>liberty
lmaooooo
>>817083
>Vendee
>good
Republican baptisms are in order.
>>817123
You sound like a teenager. Baby's first board after getting popcorned for a chapter in your history class.
>>817153
If you think any side in that shitfest was good, you're the teenager m8
>>817123
I'm embarrassed for you... you realize this is a discussion board, not an edgelord RP?
>>817835
Not the posters you're answering to but I did. It's not uncommon at all, in France at least.
And I guess leaving NATO's integrated command, thus driving US forces out of France mostly explains why De Gaulle is pictured as a butthurt antichrist in the USA.
>>812395
They were the Nazis of their time and had to be stopped from their evil conquest of Europe by their manlet dictator.
>>817880
I've never heard De Gaulle portrayed that way by anyone let alone Americans, and I pride myself on being at least somewhat knowledgeable on this stuff.
Personally I thought De Gaulle was quite admirable in what he did. A beneficial dictator almost, and all too necessary for France at the time.
>>817933
Hello Marmaduke, how's the weather in Birmingham?
>>816043
(You)
>>817605
lol @ your damage control
The people are free to do what the fuck they want. But they aren't getting money for it, the debt was already managed.
>>812395
Yeah because the new navy could take on the british fleet.
>>817163
Where did anyone say "any side in that shitfest" was good? I'm talking about how you sound like a teenager for "LOLOLOL REPUBLICAN BAPTISMS FOR YOU XDDDDDDD"
>>817934
Americans hate him because he opposed them and saw that they were trying to subjuguate France.
>I've never heard De Gaulle portrayed that way by anyone let alone Americans,
Then you've probably not talked to much american honestly, but brits are way more butthurt about him than even american.
>>819540
>but brits are way more butthurt about him than even american
And ironically if you ask why they'll usually say "because he vetoed Britain's entry into the EU", the same EU they're so desperate to get out of.
>>817789
>4chan
>srs discussion
What are you, 12? Obvious shitpost is obvious.
>>820599
This is /his/. If you don't like it, leave.
>>819118
It was a joke, you autistic moron. The french revolution is the personification of JUST, that's why i love it so much.
>>820604
I like it fine you're the butthurt one m8
>>812399
>foreign-backed tax evasion than a struggle against tyranny
Forgetting that it was ideology that drove most of them.
You forget that the majority of the populace were farmers who weren't in the slightest effected by taxes imposed by the english in any significant way.
It was the idea to be free from the motherland and a want of justice.
The Americans had a different ideas of republicanism than the french, with both having very divergent constitutions and distributions of political power. It's like comparing the french republic to the united provinces.
