So what makes certain armies (Spartans, Vikings, samurais, ninjas) so fucking meme-tier? Pop culture and edgy 16-year old boys wouldn't stop circlejerking around them. Meanwhile, other historical noteworthy warriors (gallowglasses, ushkuiniki, Catalan Company, etc.) are rarely talked about outside of their home countries.
Propaganda.
Tfw get called a larper when I quote the Spartans from the battle of thermopolea
They were more successful.
Spartans had a great reputation in Greece (remember Alexander the Great's father not going to war with them), a very particular culture and the Battle of Thermopylae.
Vikings conquered Russia, Normandy and Northeastern Britain. They gave a lot of problems to Carolingean kings.
Samurai ruled Japan for a long ass time, defeated the Mongols twice, mounted an invasion of 150,000 soldiers against Korea/China (where they actually had the advantage in land battles) and had a very particular culture.
If anything, the underrated ones are not the Scottish, but the Turks.
>>1013366
Because this is a videogame and those meme warriors are the coolest, even if they are overly exaggerated. Calm your autism.
>Spartans
Their reputation is so legendary, the memes are CONTEMPORARY to them.
It was funny seeing movie critics bitching about 300's "movie-ready quotes" when they came not from Zack Synder, not from Frank Miller, but from the Father of History himself, Herodotus.
>>1013396
"samurais ruled" more like existed as Shogun-bitches
>>1013396
>Spartans had a great reputation in Greece (remember Alexander the Great's father not going to war with them), a very particular culture and the Battle of Thermopylae.
Thebans managed to defeat the Spartans and also had a particular culture (The Sacred Band). The latter explains why it's mostly limp-wrists and SJWs who idolized the Thebans, even though the Bandsmen would have knocked their teeth out if they had the chance.
>Vikings conquered Russia, Normandy and Northeastern Britain. They gave a lot of problems to Carolingean kings.
At around the same period, Magyar nomads pillaged as far west as France and Spain, catalyzing the castellation and rise of feudalism in medieval Europe. But outside of Hungary, Vikings get all the reputation as fearsome barbarian raiders, while Magyars are associated with hardcore pornography.
>Samurai ruled Japan for a long ass time, defeated the Mongols twice, mounted an invasion of 150,000 soldiers against Korea/China
Which they lost, twice. The Shimazu invasion of the Ryukyu Islands were pretty much the only successful samurai campaign outside of Japan.
>>1013445
Which was a Samurai himself (as the warrior ethos part) as oposed to the old courtesan aristocracy
Movies. Samurai had tons of movies. Mongol didn't. That made the difference.
>>1013396
>but the Turks.
That's because their greatest warriors, the Janissaries, were abducted Christian children raised as brainwashed killing machines. So why would anyone point this in positive light?
>>1013466
>The latter explains why it's mostly limp-wrists and SJWs who idolized the Thebans, even though the Bandsmen would have knocked their teeth out if they had the chance.
Nah they really liked Spartans because "Gurl Power" and homosexuality. They often forgot about the Helots which allowed women to have so much free time
>>1013396
>tfw i can never fanboy over turkish exploits because im from balkan without being branded a traitor to my country
But they were really cool and they really were Attila: 16th century edition, and im sad i cant have a non-meme debate without the whole country traitor or turkroach memes.
Anyone else share this feel?
Spartans and Samurai at least actually engaged in battles, ninjas were not a fucking army they were spies, vikings were raiders and not an organised army either.
>>1013497
Noone sees it in a positive light, but you must admit that Janissaries were a highly efficient doctrine, even though it backfired hard.
>>1013396
Vikings were invited to Russia they didn't fucking conquer it, Normandy was GIVEN TO THEM after they were defeated by Franks to serve as a buffer zone protecting them from other vikings.
>>1013511
And it wasn't even Russia they were invited to.
Knights are underrated I guess they didn't have enough mystical bullshit build around them to be seen as cool by 14yo kids.
>viking sword is called Gladius in this game
>fucking ball and chain morningstar
dropped
Landsknecht Doppelsöldnerin are the coolest fighters in history imo. They'll never be popular because they dressed like faggots on purpose but that's the appeal honestly.
Spoiler: thinking of history as just a series of rising and falling militaries is the most meme-tier way of doing it, whether you're talking about armies that are adapted into action figures and video games or armies that you whip out at your Axis and Allies sessions as conversation to pass the time.
>>1013596
That's what people who get BTFO because their meme warriors turned out to be a meme say.
>>1013517
Knights used to be hot shit back in the day, but the appeal wore off as kids moved onto Vikings and samurais to live out their paganlarp/Chinese cartoon fantasies. Nowadays, they're portrayed as snobby aristocrats who get jobbed by plot-armored commoner protagonists (not that Viking jarls and
samurais were ever exemplars of egalitarianism), even though actual knight-killing peasant armies like almogavares and Swiss infantry still haven't gotten their own video games and action figures.
>>1013366
>Spartans
*Spartiatai in proper Greek. Those guys were legit, easily greatest warriors in history. Less than 10,000 Spartiatai enslaved 200,000 Heliotes. That's were Hitler got his idea of "master race", though Germans were a shit-race compared to the Spartiatai.
>Vikings
Is a colloquial term for people in boats who raid villages.
>Samurais
Is a caste across the whole of Japan.
>Ninjas
What does that even mean...
Usually romantics jacking off to a particular culture
Like crusader LARPers
>>1014061
>defeated by a literal army of fags
>>1013366
Because Vikings and samurai are cool And have an aura of invincibility around them despite what history might actually say
>>1014091
I wouldn't want to fight against an army of literal fags.
>>1014091
Your lack of history is showing. The Spartiatai were defeated many times, doesn't diminish their greatness A superior strategy will even beat the greatest warrior.
>>1014061
If you're going to get anal about proper pluralization:
Samurai*
Ninja*
>>1014126
Don't forget:
Vikingar*
>>1014061
>who raid villages
monasteries mostly
>>1014116
>spartiagays got defeated multiple times
>b-but they're still the greatest warriors in the history of ever!
Spoken like a true fanboy.
>>1014091
Every army loses sometimes what makes army shit is if it loses most of the time.
>>1013396
>Vikings conquered Russia, Normandy and Northeastern Britain.
Except not really
Vikings were offered Normandy after a defeat, and their conquest of England lasted only until they got their ass kicked from there
>>1013366
>So what makes certain armies (Spartans, Vikings, samurais, ninjas) so fucking meme-tier?
Popular media.
Film, video games, music, etc.
>>1013396
>They were more successful.
AJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
japs a shit
>>1015220
>>1015225
But Wokou were pirates not samurai.
>>1015220
>Wokou
That's like comparing a band Vikings to a Scandinavian kingdom's host.
Until Hideyoshi's sword hunts "samurai" and "ronin" was basically any fuck with a weapon and a few scraps of armor. They didn't solidify as a "caste" until Tokugawa.
>>1013366
ninjas are not real and never were
Samurai were actually based as fuck before the late Tokugawa period, though
>>1015263
Not sure if trolling.
>>1015289
if it's not Western it's fictional
>>1013366
Well, The young lads value the same thing as those groups.
Notice how both groups that appeal to young boys have things in common with eachother. (Spartans and Vikings, Samurai and Ninja are cringe tier in young adults).
For boys they value what these warrior 'cultures' valued.
>brotherhood
>strength
>aggression
>courage
>adventure
>power
It is simple, they have a lot in common.
And information about them is easily accessible.
>>1015351
>information about them is easily accessible
exactly yet they still spew bullshit based on fucking stereotypes
>>1015259
any tercio or proper european early modern army >>>>>>> memerais
get fuked weeb
>>1015289
I'm sorry but he is sort of right
>>1015395
Define ''sort of right''. They were different than what Hollywood and anime made them out to be but that's the case with every historical group they touch with their dirty fucking hands.
Why does anybody care about Sparta when Athens existed?
>>1015381
This is true, but only because tercio >>>>> knights as well. This is why the Japanese moved from ritualized to individual combat in the late sengoku period with the introduction of firearms.
The Japanese contemporary of the Tercio or pike square isn't the Samurai, but the Ashigaru, who also fought in pike-and-shot formations, utilizing muskets just as prolifically as their European contemporaries. Samurai still existed, just as knights did, but they served more as commanders and leaders than as the foot soldier.
Saying Tercio >>>>> samurai is like saying Ashigaru >>>>> knights; while both are correct, it's comparing two styles of warfare that are at least a century apart.
>>1015466
*from ritualized individual combat to organized mass combat
>>1013445
>>1013501
No
>>1015466
M8 Samurai still served as foot soldier.
There's no role the Samurai doesn't fulfill really. They're not like knights in which their first and foremost role is cavalry, they're merely professional fighters.
A Samurai was only a commander when...he was a commander, or a lord. Lower ranking samurai just formed formations of really well trained soldiers serving in various roles.
>>1015445
Dude muh being sent to the woods as a kid and 300 lmao.
>>1015524
>Lower ranking samurai just formed formations of really well trained soldiers serving in various roles.
>M8 Samurai still served as foot soldier.
Sure, but they really weren't very good at it compared to the Ashigaru, which were far more used to mass warfare with a shitload of guns. This becomes obvious with Hideyori's attempt to overthrow Tokugawa, backed primarily by Ronin and samurai; at the sound of Tokugawa's cannon, the Ronin and Samurai at Osaka castle were essentially shell-shocked, and the defenders quickly fell apart. Rather than being the main source of (As you said) professional fighters compared to the poorly trained Ashigaru, they become significantly less important as muskets and pikes became the more prevailing method of combat, such that Tokugawa enshrined them primarily as petty nobility after the sword hunts.
>>1015470
Was this ritualized combat an actual thing or some dumb myth like ''le horned viking helmet''? Sounds stupid and not like something a proffesional soldier should do.
>>1015524
As for knights as far as I know English ones usually fought unmounted.
>>1015524
>They're not like knights in which their first and foremost role is cavalry, they're merely professional fighters.
What makes you think knights weren't the same and that they didn't also fight as heavy infantry when it suited them?
>>1015568
It wasn't ritualized like them all bowing and saying their names and shit, but it primarily single combat, usually of horse archery. The Mongol invasions were particularly shocking because the Mongols just fought and launched volleys as a group.
>>1013366
Because the gallowglasses, ushkuiniki, and catalans all have close enough monologues in the better known Spartans, Western European Vikings, and Samurai.
You're basically asking
>why would a company try to appeal to the widest audience and most money instead of making some fringe shit that no one knows or cares about
>>1015568
From the wiki and citing John "Ken-sama" Turnbull, but:
>The invasions also exposed the Japanese to an alien fighting style which, lacking the single combat that characterized traditional samurai combat, they saw as inferior. This difference is noted in the Hachiman Gudōkun:
>According to our manner of fighting we must first call out by name someone from the enemy ranks, and then attack in single combat. But the Mongols took no notice at all of such conventions. They rushed forward all together in a mass, grappling with any individuals they could catch and killing them.[29]
Why aren't Cossacks more famous?
>>1015653
No great movies accessible to a western audience about it. The Soviet Union wasn't exactly the happiest with the Cossacks after all.
Pop culture itself elevated those figures into military icons.
I mean, the Samurai had plenty of Kurosawa movies for people to wank off. Coupled with Orientalism Ninjas & Samurais are the perfect exotic icon to grab the western's attention.
How many movies does the Gallowglasses have
>>1015653
But they are.
>>1015653
Soviet propaganda vilified them as Tsarist stooges and Nazi collaborators, while butthurt Jews portrayed them as antisemitic cutthroats in Western media. The Soviet collapse and official state recognition sort of revived the Cossack image in Russia and Ukraine, though.
>>1015573
>>1015595
Because of their origins and the whole military infrastructure that supported them. The entire point and purpose of the knight and the system that supported him boiled down to this: "raise heavy cavalry."
The Samurai meanwhile had their origins in the late Yamato Military Reforms in which the Yamato had problems raising ANY professional fighters to begin with. Nobody wanted to fight the scary Emishi in the north. So the Yamato Emperor jacked up the rewards for anyone willing to make the conquest. Generals going north then gathered a coterie of guys whose sole job in life was to be a professional fighter. Some had horses, some didn't. Everyone was trained with archery (the preferred way of war by the Emishi enemy) but trained in other weapons as well. Some specialized in only one (at their own risk). When the conquest was over, Japan suddenly had shitloads of professional fighters with nothing to do. So these men settled with the Generals-turned feudal lords or went around hiring themselves out as professional muscle, birthing the samurai class.
>What makes you think knights weren't the same and that they didn't also fight as heavy infantry when it suited them?
Note: when the situation called for it. But a Knight is first and foremost a cavalryman. He would be required to have a horse.
A Samurai was a Samurai. Done deal. He was primarily a professional fighter of any kind. Some were cavalrymen, some went on foot and never owned a horse their whole lives, but Ideally they ought to be Jack-of-all-Trades kind of guys. But only rich samurai could do that.
But what marked them out was they were the only professional soldiers around for the longest time until the footsoldiery evolved from part-timer thugs to professional infantry by the end of the 16th Century.
>>1013794
>still
I doubt they will ever get one. Hopefully we can get some hussites since eastern europe seems to be becoming popular.
>>1015732
>some were on foot
did unmounted samurai have any specific name? I usually see them depicted on horses and with bows.
>>1015573
That might be why english is the only language I know where "knight" doesn't mean "horseman" or something similar. Maybe.
>>1015767
>I usually see them depicted on horses and with bows.
And also on foot.
The horseman samurai is just the ideal archetype of a professional warrior who has it all. Showing that he can do everything all the martial arts required of him to do.
>>1015801
Did they use spears or their trademark katanas while on foot?
>>1013366
Because they're iconic. The ones you mentioned can with some force be put in the same categories.
Vikings(gallowglasses),Pirate/viking (ushkuiniki), Catalan Company(Knights).
The samurai being popular its no wonder. Who makes 99% of the media involving the Samurai
The Japanese themselves. It's no different from Americans making Wild West movies. Thanks to globalization, anyone can watch some Japanese Cartoon, and tons of those animus feature the romantic ideal of the Samurai. Also Oda Nobunaga.
>>1015827
Depends if they own all of the necessary equipment. Some Samurai start battles as archers, then have their attendants fetch their spears or other polearms for them when the decision to close in was made. This was pretty much the case of 900's-1200's Japan when archery was a big part of Samurai warfare.
The increasing violence of the 1300's-1400's meant Samurai started specializing on certain roles by preference or necessity. Also the rise of Samurai acting as lancers since everyone and his mum was now interested in getting to grips.
I like how both Spartans and Vikings who while interesting people were turned into fucking SJW mascots despite the fact that they had slaves which is conviniently forgotten because it doesn't fit their muh proto liberals agenda. They tend to get the most retarded fans as well and I'm sure they are rolling in their fucking graves.
>>1015732
Why didn't the new warrior class dissolve now that there was no longer a demand for warriors? Maybe some old veteran was inclined to do so out of habit but after several generations I doubt it would last.
There must have been some other reason to maintain expensive warriors which included places like Kyushu that had no recent conquests, the reason is most likely the rise to prominence of clans which characterized the Heian period.
They have fucking rad hats.
Erreybody want to be a stylish motherfucker
What do you guys think of this Mongolian metal?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CUfMm0sHjo
>>1015887
The Tokugawa bakufu organized Japanese society largely along Confucian lines (scholar-farmer-craftsman-merchant). But Japan did not have a dedicated scholarly caste like in China or Korea, and the shogun did not trust the literate Buddhist clergy, so the samurai fulfilled the role as scholars and administrators.
>>1015887
>Why didn't the new warrior class dissolve now that there was no longer a demand for warriors?
Because all the feudal lords at the time were fighting for power and needed soldiers?
Tlaxcalan warriors
>>1015935
Mixtecs
>>1015940
Zapotec
>>1015940
>when the mixtape too strong for your jaw
>>1015943
Mexicas
>>1015950
Mayans
>>1013497
but that's awesome
>>1015841
>with some force
Maybe with the force of one thousand suns.
>>1013497
>their greatest warriors...were abducted...children raised as brainwashed killing machines
That sounds like the plot to a very generic edgy anime tbqh
Ultron-3 shaman warriors
All groups OP mentioned have idiotic fucking fanbases and honestly fuck them I hope someone will create a time machine and murder them so I won't have to read or hear any more stupid shit their gaylord fans spew.
>>1015903
I love it. Ego fall is nice too.
I think mongols will soon join these other three, probably. Sadly for them, the hero with a sword will always sell better than the archer.
It's been so long since weebs talking up ninjas and shit became a laughable stereotype I can't remember the last time I saw anyone do it unironically.
>>1016005
Youtube comments do it a lot.
>>1015953
Sinaloa Cartel
>>1016011
>Reading youtube comments
Found the retard
>>1016013
I am dr henry killinger, unt zis is my magic murder bag
>>1013396
>mounted an invasion of 150,000 soldiers against Korea/China (where they actually had the advantage in land battles)
wew lad the Japanese avoided the Ming(hence the sieges) after they got BTFO in Pyongyang
>>1013511
One viking was invited to Kiev yes
But many Rus princes relied upon Viking support to keep pechenegs under their heels
Normandy is more or less as you describe it; though the Vikings got a very good deal
the Danelaw would have been a better example than Normandy
>>1015870
I'm aware of some of the revisionism that goes on with Vikings (some idiot claimed the Danelaw was taken with an army comprised by half of women)
What SJW nonsense do people say about spartans?
>>1015568
There was some but it was probably not universal
>>1016013
>>1015767
>6
They had a lot of names, one of the problems with studying early Japanese warfare is there were alot of regional terms, and words with multiple meanings
>>1016013
More Aztecs
>>1016013
Not done yet
>>1016013
More
>>1016013
Oiztecs
>>1016013
Btw your file says zapotec but they are also mixtecs
>>1013466
>At around the same period, Magyar nomads pillaged as far west as France and Spain, catalyzing the castellation and rise of feudalism in medieval Europe. But outside of Hungary, Vikings get all the reputation as fearsome barbarian raiders, while Magyars are associated with hardcore pornography.
THIS
The Magyars and Muslims raided Europe as much as the Vikings did in the 9th and 10th centuries. Those raids helped propel feudalism to combat the hit-and-run tactics of the Saracens, Hungarians, and Norse.
Totonac pyramid el Tajin looks like an Asian pyramid
>>1016473
Yeah, got my 'tecs mixed up. My bad.
>>1016508
Tula from the Toltecs
>>1016518
Mayan pyramid
>>1016525
Zapotec pyramid
>>1016540
Tlaxcaltec
>>1016563
Coba Mayan
>>1016584
Mitla Zapotec
>>1016588
Tikal Mayan
>>1013366
well, in the case of the spartans and the a bit of the ninjas - it's mostly the feats of bravery
for the rest it's mostly the iconic equipment they used and wore along with the falkore around them
>>1016593
Uxmal Mayan
>>1016599
Tulum Mayan, this one is amazing
![140219105653-01-pussy-riot-in-sochi-horizontal-large-gallery[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zAYwgdZ.jpg "140219105653-01-pussy-riot-in-sochi-horizontal-large-gallery[1].jpg")
>>1015711
an ironically today some of them act like putin's hounds, serving mostly to harrass and beat manifestants and anyone talking shit about putin
and this is why people are absolute shit and nothing of value would be lost if something around 80% of the world population was to disappear because nothing beats licking the balls to a country and/or a person that tortured and killed your grandparents for shits n giggles
>>1016443
i keep hearing about the eagle and jaguar warriors... were they any good or is this more meme tier bullshit?
>>1016622
Russian Cossacks today are some incredibly confused people
>>1016632
They were extremely good. If they would've used iron weapons, they could've matched Samurais. Aztecs had their own martial arts like Asians and their most nobble warriors were experts in hand to hand combat. Imagine you have to capture your enemy but you are not allowed to kill him while he can kill you. Yes, that's what Aztecs (aka Mexicas) did all the time and they were the most powerfull empire the Americas has ever seen. You also have to take into consideration that unlike Asians or Europeans, they didn't trade with the rest of the world. The only people I know that also never traded with the rest of the world were South African people and Polynesian people. That's why these 2 other groups of people couldn't achieve what others could. Well this is now a bit out of contexts but to resume, Aztecs and specially all the other Native American tribes are still underrated.
>>1016632
You can watch this video to learn more about the Aztecs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS6MpVbB_g
>>1016670
i've never paid much attention to this time period but there's definitely a lot of interesting shit to learn here
>>1016681
heh the narrator sounds like the offspring of morgan freeman and sean connery
also, pic related: this is the creepiest thing you could offer to a child in my opinion
>>1016728
Btw, this is something almost no one knows. The best Mexica (Aztec) warriors were not eagle nor jaguar. They were the Tzitzimitl Skull Knights. Here I copy-pasted some info about them:
"In Aztec society, membership in the calpulli established each individual's religious and secular schooling, as well as how they would be trained in warfare. The men of a calpulli served together in battle and on the numerous public works projects. Their soldiers wielded weapons of wood and stone, and they often sought prisoners to be sacrificed in religious ceremonies.
The most-feared and powerful division in the Aztec army was made up of skull knights. Their name, Tzitzimitl, translates as "frightful specters," the skull knight dressed as a kind of undead horror, and the enemy often fled at their advance."
They looked like Dead warriors with their corpse paint and they were masters of warfare. It is said that some enemy warriors would prefer to surrender or to run away before trying to fight them because of their intimidating death-looking.
>>1016768
Unfortunately tho, we have almost no register of them and we are not sure how they exactly looked.
Movies and shitty history classes.
>>1016728
Looked like*
>not a single poster mentioned Cataphracts yet
What the fuck man
>>1016795
>Cataphracts
>posts clibanarius
>>1013497
Because it's fucking brilliant
>>1015732
I'll just add that in french, the word for knight is "chevalier", and the word for horse is "cheval", and frankish knights and later french knights themselves always had a strong tradition of heavy cavalry warfare
>>1013466
>Magyars are associated with hardcore pornography
I...what? Tell me more about this hardcore steppe porn industry.
>>1015220
>why can't I hold all these naginata.jpg
>>1017044
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_in_Hungary
>>1013366
>tfw no love for the Assyrians or Hittites
>>1016980
Except it wasn't, since Janissaries always had way too much fucking power and just did whatever the fuck they wanted. Even the fucking Sultan couldn't do dick to reign them in
Holy hell fuck off you cunt.
>Pop culture and edgy 16-year old boys
HOW DARE PEOPLE ENJOY SOMETHING?!?!?!
>>1017601
HOW DARE PEOPLE CRITICIZE THE THINGS I LIKE?!?!?!?!?
>>1017621
I have never played that game. But getting your autism-tits jingling because video game has samurais is moronic.
>>1013794
>Swiss
>knight killers
They really weren't. with a few exceptions, their victories mostly involve killing other low class infantry.
>Spartans were defeated by an literal army of faggots
>>1017585
That makes it even cooler, ottomans were not dumb enough to not make use of people with capacities, even when they were slaves
>>1014061
Yeah in greek but you're speaking English just stick to *Spartans*. I swear you Americans always do that, you speak your native language but change one word to the original one.
>>1013366
They're just clearly defined, at least in pop culture.
Crusaders, the well armored, Sword and shield brothers in arms.
Vikings, the rustic, seafaring bastards with axes, raping and pillaging because shit is cash.
Samurai, bro, that's fucking japanese right there, glorious nippon steel and whatever.
Romans, tight formations, big shields.
Spartans? 300 and the gays. That's why they're meme tier.
>>1013511
>>1015077
That's still a plus. If you're a pain in the ass enough to have you hired to be a buffer to your friends, you just made a lucrative deal by fighting them. More mutually beneficial, but still a gain to you.
And Rus bring invited to rule, well, that happens plenty, but it speaks to your ability to rule well.
