Was he history's first feminist?
http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/07/feds-paid-709000-to-academic-who-studies-how-glaciers-are-sexist/
lol who cares?
>>808102
No.
many hunter-gatherer tribes were egalitarian so I guess they were 'feminists' in the best possible sense
>>808102
To my knowledge, yes.
>>808102
Depends on your definition of feminist. Feminists typically think that preconceived notions of gender identity have a negative effect on society as a whole. While Plato thought sex was s trivial thing when determining who should take leadership roles, he didn't necessarily think that gender had any sort of effect on those peoples upbringing as a modern feminist would say. Regardless it doesn't make much sense to apply these types of modern thought to Plato.
>>808383
>Feminists typically think that preconceived notions of gender identity have a negative effect on society as a whole
Here we go
>>808102
He took no stance on gender that i can recall.
>>808403
Do they or do they not? Is there not a social pressure for you to conform to act as a "real man" would in your every day life? I think a lot of modern feminists are idiots yes but at the core of it there is something that makes a bit of sense. The issue is determining whether or not this is a problem
Low quality bait fellas, keep it up!
>>808432
If you're trying to define a feminist, you've defined a few second- and third-wave feminists, but you've failed to define feminists in general.
>>808432
>Do they or do they not?
Not that guy, but some do and some don't. Feminism on the whole isn't a single ideology, but a blanket term for a whole shitload of movements and ideologies, some of which are related only in being concerned about gender politics in some fashion.
>>808432
Yes it sucks that society still pressures people into conforming to certain behaviors based on their sex, but I think modern feminists are becoming really biased and illogical about the whole situation-- they're basically becoming what they set out to destroy.
>>808440
Sure, there are different feminist philosophies. However Anon's generalization certainly fits the most vocal, modern brand of feminism.
Also, why do people react with the same >No true X when it comes to Islam, feminism and socialism?
>>808440
I mean I feel like that falls on op not me. The feminist movements are so diverse that I can't really say one definition encapsulates them
>>808451
It's ironic that what could be a respectable field of thought is ruined by the very individuals it was conceived to protect.
>>808451
>Yes it sucks that society still pressures people into conforming to certain behaviors based on their sex,
Why does that suck?
>>808456
>Also, why do people react with the same >No true X when it comes to Islam, feminism and socialism?
I'm just trying to get a working definition of 'feminism' going in this thread before it devolves too much. This is a thread about Plato, after all.
>>808457
You're answering OP's question, though. You're offering a definition, OP isn't.
>>808481
It sucks if you don't feel like trying to conform to a specific set of standard behaviors.
>>808481
Well in a modern society it broadens the spectrum for future available specialists. If more suitable candidates are brought in to a field of study it can be assumed that more progress can be made more quickly. Without the social stigma we have on who should do what jobs we may have more suitable people in their industry of choice. Idk that's like all I can think of as far as pro feminist arguments go. When you get into a sub field like international relations it gets even worse
>>808683
Where did I use the word "intersectionality," you Mongoloid? I'm not even a feminist, I'm trying to facilitate discussion.
>>808489
>You're answering OP's question, though. You're offering a definition, OP isn't.
He asks "was he the first feminist?"
The only suitable response to something that vague would be "it depends on your definition of feminism"
>>809428
Not really, one can offer a definition and then give a yes or no answer.
>>808109
i just read the abstract and literally what
>>808349
Hunter gatherer tribes are pretty diverse. They range from feeling like a womens studies course to 24/7 rape merry-go-rounds.
okay i remember plato writing about forms, virtues, government, souls, love, etc.
when did he cover gender equality?
>>809464
He never did. He just thought that sex was trivial when deciding leadership roles
I suppose that does make him like a first generation western feminist but it's never something he poured much thought into
>>810696
>feminism then
Whoever can do the job best should be hired
>feminism now
White men should not be hired for jobs if a woman or minority has the capacity to do it
>>810696
>He just thought that sex was trivial when deciding leadership roles
I thought there was a bit more going on with the "second wave" of the Republic, such that it wasn't clear that the character of Socrates even really believes that. There's a lot of talk about how ridiculous the equality of the sexes is, and how men and women are simply not equal in a number of ways. There is a tentative granting of the possibility of the point you raise, but I thought the text of the Republic leaves it very qualified and tentative.
>>812718
Plato/Socrates was not that popular in Athens. He wanted to heavily restrict poets and artists (Only depict good deeds) and Socrates was forced to suicide.
His ideal city is far away from the Athenian model (philosopher king instead of democracy, no idle rich, extreme division of labour...)
>>812718
Plato's proposed system is a far cry from the Athenian one.
In his ideal state women would have the same rights as men.
Feminism is a spook
