Why should I believe you and follow Jesus, instead of believing this other guy who told me to follow Muhammad?
You both seem to have the same arguments, about your holy scriptures and prime movers.
>>806344
Look at Christian influenced civilizations.
Now look at Muslim influenced civilizations.
Know a tree by its fruit.
Only one was created by the Jesuits.
>>806399
Exactly. Would you rather live in Dubai or Detroit?
Because if Muhammad was so important he would be mentioned in the Bible, now wouldn't he?
>>806410
Detroit.
>>806410
Well, in the first, i'll probably be part of the poor underclass and live in a censored society.
In the other, i'm just a citizen of a failed city.
>>806444
>Censored
>Dubai
You realize Shariah applies only to Muslims right?
>>806447
>Move to Baghdad
Been there done that.
>>806344
Religion has to be taken on faith/emotion, not logical deduction. Just one of many reasons why street preachers are a silly idea.
>>806344
Who do you want to end up with? Jesus, or Mohammad?
>>806410
Detroit.
As run-down and culturally enriched as it may be, it's still better than living in the middle east.
>>806447
The claim is that Mohammad is in the bible. The claim, as is all of islam, is false.
"The Prophet" in Deuteronomy has to be a Jew to be like Moses, from the same people as Moses.
And the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, not Mohammad. The Comforter came 10 days after Jesus ascended into heaven, not 600 years later.
I can't remember the third baseless claim that Mohammad's name is in the bible, but as you believe it to be there, please feel free to cite chapter and verse.
>>806450
So I'm free to drink, whore and stand on street corners calling Muhmmad a pig-fucker through a megaphone?
>>806462
Many people are in heaven thanks to street preachers who were not discouraged by people like you.
Is it not enough that you not gain heaven? You must ensure others do not make it either?
>>806450
Yes, the Jews and Christians in Saudi Arabia.....oh, wait, there aren't any there, are there.
Muhammad is not a prophet.
Not even a false one.
You will not find a single prophecy of his in the Qur'an.
>>806492
Aye, he made the same sort of predictions any warlord would make. We can take this city in three weeks; we should be over there by six months, that sort of thing.
The part that really chaps my hide is that Mohammad knew it was satan in the cave, but talked himself into believing the lie anyway.
Why not follow both? You don't have to dichotomize their lifestyles.
>>806462
Islam says otherwise
Religion upon Reason is what you need
Religion without reason is zealotry
Reason without religion is not guided and can end up in nihilism
Reason upon Religion creates heresy
>>806344
Keep in mind you are still following Jesus if you choose Islam
>>806482
That would appear to be a circular argument, anon.
>>806509
>Reason upon Religion creates heresy
So, pretty much what the guy you're replying to said?
>>806544
No
he was arguing against Religion upon Reason
Where you follow the religion using reason to help support it
Reason upon religion puts reason first, it's just arrogance, basically how people change religions to suit the scientific discovery of the day or a political narrative
>>806460
How many IED's did you get stuck up your ass?
>>806479
>American
Your free to jump off a bridge in America
>>806485
>What is Najran
>>806492
>Qulibatul Rum.
Wrecked
>>806509
It's a fairly poor religion that cannot handle reason.
>>806509
Finally someone who understands
>>806542
Street preachers spread the gospel.
Street preachers spread the gospel to largely unwilling hearers.
Some unwilling hearers nevertheless become believers, and gain heaven.
Stopping street preachers would stop some unwilling hearers from gaining heaven.
I don't see the circle.
>>806553
In the victory of Allah . He gives victory to whom He wills, and He is the Exalted in Might, the Merciful.
>Not a prophecy
Eventually the Old Najran which was Christian disappeared, and is now represented by Al-Ukhdood, a desolate village, while another the Najran which is Islamic, has now appeared in its vicinity.
>Not in existence today.
>>806563
Human Reason cannot hope to match up to the Divine
If what we think doesn't match with the Divine, there are three possibilities:
1. Our limited interpretation of the Divine is wrong
2. What result we arrived at with reason was wrong
3. All of the above
Hoping to think you can supplant the Divine is pure arrogance, we can't even begin to conceptualize the Divine in it's infinity
>>806584
I have no need to supplant the Divine.
I am His, and He is mine.
>>806597
You claimed that reason would turn a religious person into a heretic.
I merely noted that if your religion cannot stand reason, it is a poor religion indeed.
>>806610
No, I advocated for reason in religion
Read >>806509 again
I claimed putting Reason above religion turns you into a heretic
Heresy comes from the root word "to choose" in Ancient Greek, it's literally when you trust your reason over God's command and choose otherwise.
Religion naturally should have reason
You are correct in saying a religion without reason would be weak
>>806630
Reason upon Religion creates Heresy.
I read it three times, and responded accordingly.
I'm sorry your religion cannot withstand reason. Mine can. It can also transcend reason.
>>806485
There's a shitload of Christians in Saudi Arabia. Jews not so much, at least not when I was a kid.
That being said Saudi law is Saudi law and yeah, mom covered shoulders down when shopping on the economy.
>>806657
This is bait right?
>>806660
What's a shitload? 10 travelling businessmen? 100 Filipino slaves?
You telling me that if you're in Riyadh and the prayer dude starts wailing, that Christians can just walk about the street at will?
Are you willing to lie, to defend the intolerance of islam?
>>806665
Is Islam bait?
>>806344
nah
>>806669
No?
Do you like your (you)s?
>>806669
yes desu
>>806344
At least Islam doesn't argue for the Trinity or Space Jesus.
>>806630
Why not get rid of religion altogether and focus only on reason? I agree that all reason ends in nihilism but maybe instead of choosing to be ignorant and having faith in stories written by men ages past we can work towards improving humanity both ethically, morally, etc and making life about hedonism (which it already is to everybody, even you)
basically instead of putting sugar on some bread and pretending its a donut we just see it for what it really is.. bread. with sugar on it :V
donuts are clearly on my mind.
>>806680
Is Mohammed riding a flying donkey and cleaving the moon in half like a cheap anime less ridiculous?
>>806667
Thousands. And that's just the White people. I lived there for years, and have no reason to lie. I lived in Khobar / Dhahran and yes, when it was prayer call you kind of just stood around outside for 15 mins (or 30 if evening) and waited for shops to open. Of you were in a restaurant, they just closed the blinds.
The most trouble I had during prayer were mutawwas asking us to stop hackey sacking (90s) waiting for prayer time to end.
mo tells us to kill each other
jesus tells us to love each other
which is divine?
yall mother fuckers need some jesus
>>806667
not him but Saudi and most gulf countries don't follow orthodox Islam
The Islamic reformation basically ended up with an even more autistic version of sola scriptura, where the Hadith were not supposed to be reinterpreted at all disregarding the fact that that was a reinterpretation in itself
>>806675
Nah. Do (you)?
>>806702
Gee, that's funny. I was there too. And we were forbidden from flying flags or wearing crosses, and our women troops had to cover up.
>>806746
OK? I said above Saudi law is Saudi law, so of course they would have to cover. Of you were there as / with military you should know there was a huge PR campaign running along side it because politics.
The original question was whether or not there are Christians in Saudi Arabia and the answer is absolutely. On Aramco they even had Church.
>>806686
I don't think all reason ends up in nihilism
But, I do think it does usually
Either way, I'm intellectually and spiritually satisfied with Islam as it is and I don't see that changing
Not to say I won't work as best I can with people who don't have the same beliefs as me, if compromise is necessary, it can be done. But only to the degree where Religion is upon Reason and not the other way around.
I want a good world too.
>Why not?
>choosing to be ignorant
I don't think I am as ignorant as you put.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Obviously, that has to be true, or else I wouldn't believe. If you wanted to convince me, you'd have to do it specifically.
I thought about it, and if for whatever reason I left Islam, I'd probably still be a deist and I would probably follow Islamic rules, simply because I like them.
donuts are deep-fried, I wouldn't consider them bread(or a bagel) desu
I just ate two bagels, they're a good snack food
>>806738
yeah, man
I don't bait in what was serious discussion for them though
>>806746
>troops
that explains it
they probably wanted to show some kind of image
