Were the Italians ever actually competent on the battlefield? Their history seems to be a chronicle of both immense luck and immense failure.
>lose their first war of independence against fucking Austria
>france and prussia bail them out in their next two
>jump into WWI against their allies
>entire national war effort of Italy utterly fails to break Austria's line for 3 years even though Austria is fighting on two other larger fronts
>at one point gets rekt so hard by Austro-German forces that France and Britain have to rush troops and supplies to shore them up
>jumps into WWII
>gets rekt by the French and is saved by Germany's victory
>gets rekt in North Africa by the British
>gets rekt by the Anglo-Americans in Italy itself
>switches sides
Italy was a juryrigged nation. It's people had little in common, spoke different languages and had no reason to work together.
WE WUZ ROMANS
>>790128
They really are the niggers of Europe.
>>790090
Don't forget about how they've almost lost Albania when they've sent their barely-prepared forces to capture Greece.
>>790090
Didn't they lose like 1000 men trying to invade France?
>>790170
Christ that was embarrassing.
>>790090
AIDF is back again.
>>790119
This is a good point. They were in many ways like the empire that had subjugated them for so long. A fake nation.
What I don't get is how Italy was so utterly bested in WWII by Britain when Italy had a great navy and had a huge army in North Africa.
Austria-Hungary was complete garbage during WW1 and the only time they wont any battles was when the Germans did everything for them.
The fact that Italians did even worse is just mind-astonishing.
Cadorna was a complete retard that basically just had his troops assault Austrian machineguns and get slaughtered by the tens and hundreds of thousands.
It's fucking amazing.
>>790446
Absolutely godawful leadership
That's been their problem in every war
>>790465
It is kind of funny that A-H is bottom tier in WWI and then somehow Italy does worse and manages to win.
>>790090
Don't forget how they basically caused Nazi Germany to lose WWII with one big butterfly effect fuck up of incompetence. They decided to invade Greece for reasons I can't even imagine. Basically why not, is what they must've thought. In the process they got so BTFO by the Greeks and actually driven back into Albania, Hitler had no choice but to postpone his plans for the invasion of the USSR and help out its ally with their bullshit invasion. This set Operation Barbarossa back by 3 months. And we all know how that ended. Imagine if they had reached Moscow before the cold winter of Russia had set in...
>>790485
Hitler probably shouldn't have started the war two years earlier than Italy needed to reach its basic modernization goals
>>790485
Barbarossa was postponed for other reasons.
>>790497
Which wouldn't help at all.
France had higher degree of motorisation than Germany in 1940. Did it help them?
Italy's problem was kleptocratic military-industrial complex and absolute lack of preparation. They've didn't prepared fuel for their fleet which is main reason why was Regia Marina quite inactive during the conflict(despite not being outnumbered by RN by THAT much), they weren't prepared for taking Malta despite having capability to do so, they weren't prepared for Greece, they weren't prepared to drive as far into Africa as they've did(and they were told to not retreat)... Basically Italian army and navy were never prepared for anything and that's what made them useless.
>>790520
Why was Barbarossa postponed?
>>790536
Weather conditions, insufficient preparation for crossing several rivers in the region, industrial production being slowed down by lack of resources(because USSR stopped sending them) and several others. Greece and by extension Yugoslavia had minor role in all of this.
>>790543
>Am I the only one who think the Italian Navy could have been a lot more effective in WWII?
They've didn't had fuel to be effective. Their submarines surprisingly did decent on the Atlantic.
Then there was Taranto where they were straight up unprepared(because it was *totally impossible* for anybody to attack that port, right?) that crippled them and then they've failed at providing improved electronic equipment for their warships(I don't think all of their warships had radio equipment, let alone radar), which was something British didn't failed at.
>>790544
You're right. It seems I was wrong. Doesn't take away the fact that Italy got buttraped by the Greeks and Germany needed to bail them out, just to stay on topic.
>>790446
Because the great navy was crewed by totally untrained sailors and while fast and well built, it lacked key tools like the radar (first italian military prototypes in 1941).
And a huge army in north africa is worth fucking shit if the planes don't have fuels and you're sending tankettes against the enemy tanks because you don't have anything heavier.
>>790446
Their navy never stood a chance against the RN.
>>790520
>absolute lack of preparation
It should be said that one of the reasons for this lack of preparation is that plans were for the war to start way later than it did.
>>790090
The military history of Italy is a tale of a minor player (both militarily and economically) trying to take down superpowers, and failing hard at it.
Honestly the only surprising part of this is people keep talking of their failures like they were unexpected. Probably because they see current G8 Italy and think they were always more or less on the same level of development as the rest of Europe, which they weren't until the 70s or thereabout.
>>790603
So were Hitler's.
>>790600
In open battle outside of their airplane range? No.
In picking fights they could win(destroying convoys on Malta with intent of sinking/damaging escorts - including HMS Nelson and Rodney with the local numerical superiority they could've achieved easily) - they sure stood a chance.
That being said they were absolutely unprepared for this task and the preparation they've did(fielding second biggest submarine fleet in the world after the soviet union to fight in the sea which would surely be cut-off from any convoys after they'd join the war against the UK - and it happened, the only convoy that was still going through Mediterranean was the Maltese on) has shown that their leadership had no clue.
>>790636
>So were Hitler's.
Yeah, but Hitler decided to go ahead because he knew (or he thought anyway) he was sufficently prapared already. Mussolini was just given the choice to either betray the alliance or begin a war he was totally unprepared for with no forewarning. It's not really the same.
>>790650
Mussolini joined the war on his own account to have anything to say during peace conference he expected to happen soon after the inevitable Fall of France would happen. So he "needed to loose few thousands men to say that he fought". Then you have intervention in Greece or overextending in North Africa where you don't have even that excuse.
Tell whatever you want about Hitler but as far as it came to high-level strategical thinking he was definitely very competent, Mussolini was like the direct opposite of him.
>>790119
The same with France, Britain, and Austria-Hungary.
>>790485
>implying the cold was what saved Moscow
>>790665
>Mussolini joined the war on his own account to have anything to say during peace conference he expected to happen soon after the inevitable Fall of France would happen. So he "needed to loose few thousands men to say that he fought".
Yeah, because he could actually have chosen not to fight in your opinion? He could have chosen to disregard the axis, and cut himself off from his only political ally and main resource provider? I mean sure he could have chosen to just kill the italian economy, but come on.
>Then you have intervention in Greece or overextending in North Africa where you don't have even that excuse.
The intervention in Greece and North Africa were Mussolini's idea of keeping up with Germany, to make sure that they'd share the spoils.
>Tell whatever you want about Hitler but as far as it came to high-level strategical thinking he was definitely very competent, Mussolini was like the direct opposite of him.
As shown by what?
>>790543
Any would have been more effective than what they did.
>>790446
Horrible leadership. In WWI they were so shit that they'd have lost one on one to A-H.
>>790666
But France destroyed most of its regional identities in the revolution, the Anglos just hated the French more than they hated each other, and Austria-Hungary was in fact a very poor nation that managed to survive itself for a few years.
Italians hate each other too much, and not enough their own neighbours. They also have a very weak nation, economically and militarily.
>>790666
Austria-Hungary maybe, but it was a multicultural empire held together by one family.
Italy was presumably a modern nation state that functioned like a retard.
>>790930
Look at Italy in WW2.
>>790930
you are wrong.
get in the shoes of a sicilian soldier of ww1
>you have a farm
>the carabinieri come to your house,tell you that if you don't go to war they'll kill you
>k
>you go to war
>you find yourself with snow
>you are from Gela,you don't even know that snow existed
>your feets hurt because of the fact that you have rags and not boots
>cadorna says that you have to assault enemy positions
>no ammo,only bayonet
>go to assault
>the carabinieri get in your trench as you leave it
>if you go back you are dead
nice war guys
>>790090
italy was shitty in both wars for lack of resources
Italy was an interesting faction in the first World War. It was the original member of the triple alliance 1882 made up of Austria-Hungary, Germany and, of course, Italy itself. Despite a pact between the three of them, that they will protect each other’s country with supporting military might, they had plenty of internal conflicts. Austria-Hungary was in dispute with Italy over territorial right - an awkward relationship really. The pact even agreed that Italy would not join the fray if any of them was facing the Great Britain. Then in 1902, Italy secured a secret diplomacy deal with France, which ensured Italy would be a peace pact between the two of them as well.
Fast forward to the beginning of World War One in 1914, Germany was going to war against the Russia and France, while Austria-Hungary was fighting against Serbia. Due to the partnership putting Italy in a strange position, with all the diplomatic pacts it was in, Italy decided to stay neutral. Its justification for it was that the triple alliance was meant to be a defensive pact, and Italy was not obliged in assisting its allies in their own war since they were the ones who took the offensive.
Some speculated that Italy was just being a bystander, waiting for an opportunity to gain from the potential victors. On April 26, 1915, the Italians once again in secrecy signed the Treaty of London, this agreement would have Italy leaving the triple alliance for a large section new territory, an offer to good to pass up. On May 3rd, Italy backed out of the triple alliance, and on the 23rd of the same month, it declared war on their historical enemy and past ally of the Austria-Hungary Empire.
So a simple answer to why did Italy switch sides in WW1, Italy was just seizing up the perfect time to take over the reign of their main opponent, probably seeing a better future with its new allies.
>>790171
france had forts and bunker up in the mountains,it was lost before even starting
>>790170
when the soldiers protested because of the shitty equipment they've been sent with,mussolini said "it's good if the die because of the cold,at least all the weak die"
Good luck attacking this shit.
Cadorna was a fucking retard and when the Prusso-Hungarian attack happened he fucking ran away from his HQ leaving 2 fucking ARMIES without orders.
>>790090
you call this a tank?
>>792177
RIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETS
>>792137
>you are wrong.
No, he's right about Italy functioning like a retard.
>>792166
Retards probably shouldn't have declared war then.
>>790446
RN had better philosophies and training. Italy was way too cautious and passive about losing ships while Brits knew you had to crack some eggs to make an omelette
>>794334
^this
RN lost loads of ships and suffered some really fucked up losses due to incompetence, but they still understood aggression is how you win and that you have to make mistakes to learn.
>>790680
Siberian divisions?
>>790090
How fucked were they in their invasion of France? Did they not learn anything during the Isonzo front?
>>790090
Don't forget this gem.
>>795729
I think that may be the worst defeat in WWI.
>>795729
iirc when the Italian commander learned of the attack he fled south instead of organizing his armies.
>>795729
the italians lost 665k of 400k soldiers?
>>796061
Wiki info boxes usually show "starting" forces and don't always include reinforcements or absolute totals in initial force sizes. The offensive spread over such a wide area that at least two Italian armies were wrecked in it, as well as support troops for a 100km stretch.
>>795729
Jesus Christ Italy sucks.
>>795729
goddamn
>>790543
>I know a guy from Naples, and he and his family don't even speak Italian natively.
What? In Italy?
>>796814
That's not very surprising, many Italians have a local language as their mother tongue and learn standard Italian as a second language.
>>790446
Morale. Few of them had any interest in fighting and dying for Mussolini.
It wasn't like the Wehrmacht and their fanatical devotion to Hitler.
>>796873
what did he speak, greek? or some harsh italian dialict?
>>796926
Modern Italian is based off Tuscan dialect and has only recently become the dominant language in Italy.
Italy is not a homogeneous Peninsula.
>>796984
Well yeah there was a lot of mixture with Arabs and Berbers that invaded in the Middle Ages.
>>796926
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_language?wprov=sfla1
>>795701
>italians
>learning from war
>>790170
It does seem like their army somehow got worse under mussolini.
this
>>799307
Jesus Christ Italy, get it together.
>>790128
Wasn't this literally half of mussolini's spiel?
foreign butthurt is always worth a laugh
>>790090
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Savoia_Cavalleria_at_Isbuscenskij
>>790090
still you can argue Italy was pretty good in diplomacy. They joined winners in WWI and with the excuse of ''liberation war'', had a way better fate than Germany
>>800178
>mfw I try to learn German, and this program really thinks one of the most important phrases for me to learn is "I am a Turk" and "You are a Turk".
>>800243
Just good enough to survive, but not achieve greatness or be stable. Sort of like a 3rd world state tbqh.
>>800270
Let me guess, an italian raped your mum
>>800270
>good enough to survive Sort of like a 3rd world state tbqh
like all G8 states
>>790520
>military-industrial complex
>absolute lack of preparation
How do you have those two problems at the same time?
>>800317
it happens when military leadership is total shit
>>800317
That actually happens a lot. See, a Military-Industrial Complex doesn't exist to win wars, it exists to perpetuate itself.
>>790476
Italy is the nigger that gets blown the fuck out by a single punch, sicks his posse on his victim, waits until the victim is down, then comes in and kicks the guy when he's unconscious and starts talking shit about it.
>>792149
Italy is literally an EU4 player that is behind in tech and knows jack shit about how to war
>>800644
Actually fits as an analogy.
>Were the Italians ever actually competent on the battlefield?
The "Italian wars" of the mid-1400's through 1516 had some interesting alliances and maneuver-warfare. They helped lead to the demise of the "mounted knight" system of battlefield command in favor of the professional officer corps structure.
I hardly need to remind most of /his/ that Italy was the only European power to lose a war to Africans during the "scramble for Africa" era, but here's the Wiki image:
>>800559
Well.
>you are sick of a war you don't care about
>your general treats you bad and leaves you behind
What is the point of fighting at that point?
they surrendered because they understood that their general was pure shit
Look at vittorio veneto,with the change of command from Cadorna to Diaz
>>799307
Again
No supplies arrived in north africa
Those man had no ammo,no fuel,no food
Look at the retreat of el alamein
Altough they got defeated,they surrendered only after days of walking in the desert with desease,wounds,no knowing of the land that you are walking on,no food,and shitty equipment
Italy is essentially a pre-Balkanization Yugoslavia with fewer ethnic/linguistic differences, and just as much corruption and infrastructural/institutional malady. It's a nation state that was malformed from birth, spending most of its history vomiting and stumbling into people to everyone's misfortune, although mostly their own.
>>801190
>What is the point of fighting at that point?
Honor et gloria. You don't have to win to avoid shaming your countrymen and historical legacy. You just have to fight and die boldly.
With the exception of the Roman Empire and Pope Leo X (I'm rusty with Italian history) I don't really believe Italy was a true military powerhouse.
>>801186
Ethiopia was supported by Russia both times. Not to mention the fact that they outnumbered them.
>>801186
http://www.ethiopians.com/tse10.html
Reading from the ethiopian perspective is like reading an after action report from a lengthy mount and blade campaign.
>a) to make Birz drinks 600-800 mules were packed with honey. One mule carried two Gundo of honey (about 36 kilo), the total pack would be enough for an average of 336 000 people.
>b) For one month about 100 Tanika butter was packed, if multiplied by a number of camapign days, a total of 500 Tanika-butter was needed.
>c) 600-800 mules were packed with food stafs. If one Dawula (92 Killo) was enough for 500 people, totally an avarage of 80 tons of food staff was packed for the camapaign.
>d) three Frida cattle meat was needed for 1000 people for a day. (For the figures see Zekre Neger, pp. 50-51, calculation is mine).
>>801190
>Look at vittorio veneto
Don't you have a better example? A victory over a crumbling country which half of the troops refused to fight is hardly a feat, it would be surprisingly if Italy didn't managed to deliver a decisive blow.
Even if I fucking hate italians because of /sp/ reasons, I can't stand and read these /int/ tier posts in /his/, where people should know a litte about history or at least try to learn about it without any bias or stupid memes.
First of all you don't try to have a serious discussion just by posting wikipedia "final battle scoreboards" and a few good ol "lel this country sucks".
Give it some context at least, have a talk about it, even wikipedia articles can provide interesting infos despite being, you know, wikipedia articles.
Battles and wars are won by money, industry and organization. Italy had basically none, for example in WW2 the greatest achievement of Mussolini was making Italy seem like a major european power while it was most definitely not, he didn't even think about having to fight an actual war, he just wanted to be able to deal with other great powers on the same level.
>>801186
The italian wars usually had little to do with italians, also most italian free companies by 15th century were basically made entirely of heavy cavalry (thanks to the wealth of their employers and the excellent quality of italian plate armour), not to mention I'm pretty sure italians have lead the last successful cavalry charge in history during ww2 against Russia. They didn't really help from that point of view. Unless by "mounted knight system of battlefield" you mean feudal army type with its knights and lords, but I don't think so.
>Funniest /his/ thread in a while
You might think you've failed in life but remember that you will always be better then Italy.
>>802046
rude!
>>802044
>/int/ tier posts in /his/
First time on /his/?
>>792177
I think they were only barely above Japan-tier in tank production.
>>792137
>no ammo,only bayonet
i'm pretty sure it wasn't this bad. the main shortages were machine guns and heavy artillery
>>801186
>through 1516
Post it mother fucker
>>790090
>>804842
>>804844
>>804857
>>790688
>Yeah, because he could actually have chosen not to fight in your opinion? He could have chosen to disregard the axis, and cut himself off from his only political ally and main resource provider?
Dude, do you know that Italy and Germany were actually hostile towards each other during most of the 1930s? That Mussolini joined the war on Hitler's side was a coup comparable to the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact.
>>790128
>>790134
lol stay assblasted
>>802044
thanks
when someone is butthurt, they only looks at things superficially to justify their ass pains
it's like those people who say the US military sucks because "they lost against rice eating manlets"
>>805439
fucking this
What's up with all these threads about Italy on /his/?
>>805492
it's likely just one butthurt dude
>>805285
glad you like, I'll post the following four on caporetto to give a background on a battle already mentioned in this thread
>>805599
also, fuck the mods for deleting that other italian thread where i responded to an anon's question with good answers. with so many shit threads on /his/, i don't know why you went out of your way to delete that thread unless your some butthurt catholic
>>805604
>>805606
>>805607
>>801214
tell that to an analphabet man with 5 sons at home and a woman to maintain
>>801724
the cavalry charge of isbucenkij
>>804834
that's what my great grandfather told me :)
When you know that this is France that made Italy...
Just sayin'
>>790171
>>806062
i want to believe
>>790446
Italy was tired from fighting wars in Ethiopia to really give a fuck about fighting some war that they really didn't have any vested interest in fighting, Mussolini basically got bullied by Hitler into joining him, Mussolini would've just let them rest of he could've. Couple that with equipment that is on the low side of tolerable and leadership that is really really bad and the average soldier starts to think that maybe he should just tell Mussolini to fuck off and surrender.
>>795729
>look at it
Ah this can't be that bad sure Italy sucks but...
>look at numbers
That's literally fucking everyone how the hell
>>806323
I'm having some trouble finding references to this battle
for starters france signed the armistice on june 24. I can't find any articles saying the fighting continued past that date
second it looks like the infantry division cosseria was the one doing the fighting in the are at that time, and they bypassed the fort, meaning they only left some units behind and kept moving, the number 5000 seems unrealistic that's nearly the entire division
where it says 200 dead + 600 wounded it probably refers to the casualties cosseria suffered attacking the nearby town
is this french propaganda?
Well, when they teamed up with Germany during the Spanish Civil War in the 1930's, their side won.... So... Kinda, considering they only fought a bunch of ill-trained civilians.
How were these worthless pussies the Romans? Italy sucks so much shit.
>>807890
>where is proofs
>>790620
This
>>807890
yes.the only proof of that battle comes from a propagandistic journal
>>801313
An army marches on their stomach, and the fact that the Ethiopians understood that was one of the things that set them apart from other African countries.
>>810118
I can't find any articles about this battle outside French wikipedia which has no casualty figures or the amount of Italian soldiers that participated in the attack
I'm guessing this is another /int/ meme
>>806323
Holy shit.
>>790446
They haven't had a good leader that stayed loyal to them since the WRE.
>>810327
It wasn't. If you check the page for the Italian Invasion itself, it mentions the Italian advance being held up by that fort for days, but the battle itself is missing. It was scrubbed from the English wikipedia for some reason.
>>801218
Other euros had similar numbers disparities in conflicts and had to fight disease. Ethiopian highlands malaria is non existent.
>>790090
Implying Austria wasn't a power
Implying Italy wasnt a 60yo nation at the time
Implying Italy wasn't rekt by a world war partecipating as a mere regional power
Implying Italy wasn't wrecked by Fascism
Implying Italy would have been able to beat Three World powers if they were competent
Implying Germany didnt lose the War attacking USSR instead of winning in Africa
Implying France "wrecked" Italy after what was merely a skirmish between the two armies
Implying Italy switched side when it actually declared an Armistice and wasn't even let to fight for the allies for her own land
Implying you have an idea of what Italy's economical conditions in preparation of the conflict.
Generalizing that all Italians are incompetent at war while we won WWI amd we went in WWII because of Mussolini
OP is a fag
>>792177
Implying Italy tanks weren't some of the hypest, stop your bullying right fucking now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2L8e4rxVY
>>812989
>Italy """"""""won""""""" WWI
yeah sure lmao
>>813015
Oh well they did didn't they? Also them joining the war litterally changed the course of history. The fRench would have lost on the Marna if they would havr had half of their army on the southern border to stop Italy
>>813026
No.
>>813355
>I take history on meme value and have done no further research myself
t. you
>>813361
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of memes
t. dawkins
>>813361
>barely know english
>"i know history though"
yeah I'm sure
>>812989
>Implying Italy wasnt a 60yo nation at the time
And? Germany was younger and did way better.
>>814579
Altough germany did have less problems with industry
many communist workers refused to work in the industries for two years straight
this brought an extreme disadvantage to italy in wartime
>>815207
totally wrong. socialists were against the great war but they took a de facto neutral stance and didn't agitate during the war. the biennio rosso happened at the finish of the war. also, germany already had pretty good industry at unification. Italy had pitiful amounts in 1870
>>815532
i'm a bit rusty on italian history
that doesn't change the fact that they had horrible industries and generals
i think the only good generals of the italian army were Armando Diaz and De Bono
>>812989
>italian damge control
>>790090
Why didn't they try attacking somewhere else?
>>818070
You mean other way around?
>>818798
yea
There is an adage among pilots/engineers that if it looks right, it'll fly right
Italy proved that adage wrong
>Of three aircraft used, one was not even capable of taking off, and another could not turn and was forced to fly straight from their base at Castelvetrano to Sidi Rezegh.
>With anti-sand filters fitted, a maximum horizontal speed of 250 km/h (155 mph) was reported in some cases and several units were even unable to take off at all.
>When fitted with bomb racks the airflow over the tail surfaces to be disturbed, making the rudder completely useless and the aircraft unstable.
>Attacks on targets at Sidi Barrani had to be aborted in September 1940, the aircraft failing to gain sufficient altitude or maintain formation, and reaching a speed less than half that claimed by the manufacturers.
>By mid-November, just five months after the start of the war on 10 June 1940, most surviving Ba.88s had been phased out as bombers and stripped of useful equipment, and were scattered around operational airfields as decoys for attacking aircraft.
They were replaced in service by the aircraft they were meant to replace, mostly biplane Cr.42s and Ba.65s
the amount of asspain we cause on /int/ and /his/ makes me laugh everytime
>>795729
>70k vs 10k what is he on about
>ok 30k w.
>265k captured
>350k missing
WE WAS CAESERS
>>820336
Laughing at dagos' incompetence isn't asspain Mario
>>820336
Hi, I don't know anything about Italy, nor do I give a shit. You really don't matter fag.
>>802044
underrated post
>>822260
you don't have to rate your own post
Italy defeated the ottoman turks and had an amazing fleet, you can thank cadorna for WWI mistakes and the lack of trust towards mussolini and lack of technology for WWII mistakes, they still won both wars (people ignore that it wasn't the kingdom of Italy that lost WWII, it was the italian social republic of Mussolini) even though those victories didn't give much to the country, WWII's victory was just in name as it did more damage than good.
this meme history should end
>>823966
>won both wars
noice mental gymnastics there, Giuseppe
>>822260
This was a bait thread in the first place. Dont expect the idiots to understand
>>794334
It seems that the Italian army and navy had a very different philosophy. The army following an overagressive strategy and the Navy being too passive.
>>796984
Never knew that. I always assumed the main language differences were between mainlanders and Sicilians
>>823966
>it wasn't the kingdom of Italy that lost WWII, it was the italian social republic of Mussolini
Kingdom of Italy capitulated in 1943.
What happened with ISR is another topic.
By your logic Romania won the war as well, which is obviously false.
>>827166
Italians attempt feats of mental gymnastics greater than their feats of arms.
>>799307
Worse than the French. Jesus Christ stop surrendering all the time.
>>828210
many italians take pride in that because most of them surrendered only after they consumed all ammunitions,all food and such
>>830946
>I've never been on /int/
>>790119
I'm from the place of these battles, and we don't even speak italian/german/slavic natively, we (still) have our tongue.
All my family have fought for both the sides cause conscription / shift of the front.
Living near the border is tough.
>>790170
I don't get it, how did they almost lose to Greece?
>>792177
Technically, yes.
But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
>>832620
they weren't prepared for the winter
>>830018
>not fighting until you're all dead of starvation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Gvozdansko
>>830976
I'll consider myself lucky then.
>>835017
Is that a joke or are winters there particularly rainy or something?
>>840849
It's a joke senpai
>>835374
That seems pointless really.
