Mr. Yokoi returned in 1972 to Japan -- an entirely different country than the one he had last seen in August 1940 -- and he stirred widespread soul-searching within Japan about whether he represented the best impulses of the national spirit or the silliest.
''I am ashamed that I have returned alive,'' Mr. Yokoi declared after his return, reflecting the traditional warrior spirit that it is better to die than to give oneself up to the enemy.
''Your Majesties, I have returned home,'' Mr. Yokoi said during a visit to the grounds of the Imperial Palace, where the Emperor and Empress live. ''I deeply regret that I could not serve you well. The world has certainly changed, but my determination to serve you will never change.''
It is not clear what Emperor Hirohito thought, but many young Japanese were embarrassed at such an expression of antiquated values. Although Mr. Yokoi said the one thing he wanted most was a meeting with the Emperor, Hirohito never obliged.
Mr. Yokoi's case highlighted the extraordinary transformation that Japan has undergone -- psychological as well as material -- in the decades since the war.
He was the epitome of prewar values of diligence, loyalty to the Emperor and ganbaru, a ubiquitous Japanese word that roughly means to slog on tenaciously through tough times.
This persistence struck many elderly Japanese as inspiring and moving, while to younger people it seemed pointless and symbolic of an age that taught children to stick to what they were doing rather than to think about where they were going.
[...]as millions of Japanese watched on television, he seemed overwhelmed by the changes in the country to which he had returned. He had never heard of television, atomic weapons or jet planes.
[...]The homecoming was televised live across the nation, and cameras were everywhere as [he] stopped at the village cemetery and wept at the family gravestone, which recorded that he had died on Guam in 1944.
.
He married six months after returning.
Read his book. Great read, besides the part where he talked about doing bullets.
>>787223
Care to explain?
>emperor, i have served you for 32 years by hiding in a cave and stealing food and underwear from people
>please give me welfare
>please
>Mr. Yokoi said the one thing he wanted most was a meeting with the Emperor, Hirohito never obliged.
What a piece of shit
>>787265
The fuck would you say in that situation.
>lol it turns out I was never divine, we never had a snowballs chance in hell of winning the war, and the gaijin are way better at governing Japan than Japanese people are
>>787265
He had disobeyed the imperial command to surrender. "Seeing the emperor" is code for committing seppuku in front of the emperor. Hirohito spared his life.
>>787220
Did this man separate himself from the material world?
Decades in a jungle, having only the thought of the empire and his dedication thereof. Hedonism was probably nowhere within his mind. No desire for materials, no desire for senseless things. Only selfless-glory for Japan.
When he returned to his homeland, the hedonists were repulsed. This man didn't eat fast food, he wasn't selfish, he didn't watch TV all day, he didn't like anime. Rather, Yokoi had purpose, commitment, and duty.
TL;DR: is Yokoi a knight of faith?
>>787296
>tips fedora
GANBARU
>>787296
Truly he was the Last Samurai, starrng Tim Cruise.
>>787220
>this ugly retard got a wife 6 months after returning to cvilization
> spent years with no human contact and readjusted that quickly
>most of us will never marry
Truly god has a weird sense of humor
>>787421
Doesn't look that bad to me desu
>>787265
>post-surrender
>Hirohito still having any balls to show nostalgia for imperial era traditions
Top kek
>>787231
He said that he could see the shimmer of bullets as they came at him eventually,and learned to ddge them. A bit much, I don't think anyone is that fast.
Based Japanese warrior.
Sad how far we have fallen.
>>787305
Agreed, Christians really is the biggest fedoras, as such I'll also tip my fedora towards the Christian you tipped your fedora towards.
What a servile fool. Shows how corrupted ideology can make a man. He became less than human.
>>787220
>to younger people it seemed pointless and symbolic of an age that taught children to stick to what they were doing rather than to think about where they were going.
The fucking irony. So sad and humorous simultaneously.
>>787276
you could say the same of post-war europe, in the end they still govern their country, only the military is the exception, and if Trump gets elected this is probably going to end too anyway
>>789553
Hitler shot himself. Mussolini got killed by partisans.
Hirohito was the only Axis leader to actually survive the war and have to explain what he was doing.
>>787599
Corrupted, hedonist, Japanese herbivore youth detected.
I actually hiked to his hideout when I lived in Guam. It makes sense that no one could find him, it was a very remote location.
>>790801
>"Fedoras" usually follow hedonism and liberalism (not in the economic sense).
fedoras usually fail at following hedonism and liberalism****
what you're describing is basically normal person
>>790801
Fedoras usually affect a sense of superiority based on specious philosophical grounds.
>>787296
Yes
>>790977
>specious
Are you actually implying that traditional values are specious philosophical grounds? Are you implying that hedonism and liberalism are founded on less specious philosophical grounds than Shinto?
>>791008
Well, one of them doesn't get your country bombed to shit.
Unless you're willing to put your money where your mouth is and fly a plane into someone, you ought to accept that you're as boring as everyone else.
>>791023
I don't see an argument, I see a specious claim linking the validity of a philosophy to the fact that Japan lost the second world war.
As for the other half of your post, not sure why you assume anyone who disagrees with your worldview is a Japanese ultranationalist or an Evolafag intent on killing every degenerate living in the Kali Yuga. I just think you're making bold claims that haven't been supported very well.
>>791111
Well, the values of the generation that Shoichi Yokoi grew up in ended up with the military crushing the civilian government, and Japan embarking on a poorly thought out, suicidal quest for empire.
The values of later generations of Japanese, which you denigrate, led to Pokemon.
If you want to avoid the cultural traits of a modern, industrialized democracy, there's an easy solution.
Don't live in an industrialized democracy.
You could defect to North Korea, and get almost the exact same cultural and political climate.
Judging by the fact that you post on 4chan, you benefit from modern society.
Hence why I'm making fun of you. Because you reek of intellectual bankruptcy and a false sense of superiority.
Also, if you were a South American country, you'd be Ur a gay.
>>790802
Take any photos of the land?
>>791216
You had me until Pokemon kid
>>791260
How about this website then?
It's a Chinese cartoon forum, right?
I bet if Japanese people still acted the same way they did in 1940, there'd totally be a 4chan.
>>791216
Again, I'm just pointing out that you're being unjustifiedly dismissive of these arguments. You've failed to actually *make* an argument against traditional values, instead claiming that, because I probably like Pokemon, modern values are better. I have not claimed that traditional values are better than modern values; you've put words in my mouth.
>Also, if you were a South American country, you'd be Ur a gay.
Oh, wow, talk about intellectual bankruptcy.
>>791266
Again, not an argument. From 4chan not existing in a timeline where the Axis won it doesn't follow that traditional values are founded on specious philosophical grounds.
>>791264
Resistance to authority, pacifism, and a willingness to break with tradition made Japan better than WW2 era Japan.
>>791287
Why?
>>791271
>>791284
Is evidence not an acceptable form of counter-argument?
>you live in an industrialized democracy
>you consume the media and practice the culture of an industrialized democracy
>it is unlikely that this is an accident, and that you really prefer traditional values enough to actually live in a traditional society
I thought that was pretty solid.
>Oh, wow, talk about intellectual bankruptcy.
If you want my comeback, you'll have to scrape it off your mom's teeth.
>>791304
Those aren't attacks on any of the premises of traditionalism. I'm not talking about preference, I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say that to you before you get it.
>>791299
Well, because they formed a democratic system of government and successful, innovative private enterprises, traded and interacted extensively with other countries and pursued a foreign policy that allowed them to concentrate on economic growth rather than conflict. The values of the previous generations were unlikely to produce these developments.
>>791309
There's a tradition in Western discourse of "putting your money where your mouth is."
In this case, it follows that if you truly believe in the veracity of your argument, you would take action to put yourself into a society that was more compatible with your arguments.
A person who states a philosophical position and then acts in a contrary manner with their actions is called a hypocrite, and is traditionally associated with sophism and intellectual bankruptcy.
You haven't acted in a way that would lend any credence to the idea that traditional societies are superior to their modern descendants. I don't need to address your argument if I can show that you don't believe it yourself.
>>791325
>Well, because they formed a democratic system of government and successful, innovative private enterprises, traded and interacted extensively with other countries and pursued a foreign policy that allowed them to concentrate on economic growth rather than conflict.
That's odd, there are various traditions that don't see those as the end-all be-all determining factors that make a society good. What do you think of Marxism?
>A person who states a philosophical position and then acts in a contrary manner with their actions is called a hypocrite, and is traditionally associated with sophism and intellectual bankruptcy.
Holy fucking shit, are you actually this dense? I'm not advocating this position, I'm asking you to attack the premises of the philosophy you're railing against. If you actually knew anything about traditions of the West you'd know that you've failed to attack your enemy in a meaningful way. Most of this is ad hominem shit. The fact that you can't tell the difference between someone asking you to make a better argument against a philosophy and someone actually endorsing that philosophy leads me to think that you're completely full of shit.
>>791287
>Resistance to authority, pacifism, and a willingness to break with tradition made Japan better than WW2 era Japan.
Japan is not a country known for resistance to authority and a willingness to break with tradition.
I also can't see the relationship between hedonism and resistance to authority, pacifism or willingness to break with tradition.
>>791344
>Japan is not a country known for resistance to authority and a willingness to break with tradition
Compared to the United States, you would be correct.
Compared to 30s and 40s Japan, you would be dreadfully mistaken.
>I also can't see the relationship between hedonism and resistance to authority, pacifism or willingness to break with tradition
I can't see hedonism as the primary cultural difference between a traditional culture and a more modern one.
You'll note that whenever peasants get a shitload of food, they tend to feast, and when a king gets power, they tend to wear gold.
Humans are naturally drawn towards pleasure, the question is what is powerful enough to counteract that force.
>>791341
Experimental evidence isn't just a substitute for deductive reasoning, it's all around superior.
We have the tools for this experiment. We have a richly documented history that shows Japan with a traditional society, and a modern society.
We can show what practical effect these values have on society. everything after that is value judgement. Traditional society would be superior to modern society in a subjective comparison if the specific person comparing the two preferred the former.
This is plainly not the case.
>I'm not advocating this position, I'm asking you to attack the premises of the philosophy you're railing against
A philosophical premise is not objective or falsifiable.
The best I can do is examine objective, known facts and apply basic utilitarianism.
>>787296
you guys realise he was not even miles from civilization? I was born on that island Guam and he was basically just a crazy jungle person shittting in your backyard while you were minding your own business buying and trading your goods with american money.
>>791383
You aren't worth arguing with if you think of philosophical and historical argumentation in terms of falsifiability and objectivity. Take a logic class. Take a history class. Take an introductory philosophy class. You'd be embarrassed by what you've posted ITT if you did.
>>791008
Traditional values are values suited for another time. In the modern economy, with modern technology, those values simply don't work out.
They were made to suit a completely different time period.
>>791416
>You aren't worth arguing with if you think of philosophical and historical argumentation in terms of falsifiability and objectivity
What else is worth arguing about?
Isn't the definition of an argument an attempt to divine the veracity of a statement?
If you aren't trying to uncover some kind of objective truth, then there's literally no way to resolve the argument, or to obtain anything meaningful from the exercise.
If I wanted to masturbate, I'd open up /e/, but I came here to argue with morons.
>>791434
I suggest you learn a couple things about logic before you start telling about the presence of absolute truth in arguments.
>>791441
>telling
yelling*
>>791428
>Traditional values are values suited for another time. In the modern economy, with modern technology, those values simply don't work out.
Could you expand on that? Why?
>>791441
Well, you could take the opportunity to inform me, if you're already going to all the trouble of typing out a sentence and hitting the submit button.
The way I see it.
>someone makes an assertion that traditional Japanese values are superior to modern ones
>the superiority and inferiority of cultures are not objective phenomena
>we can, however, determine the subjective preferences of the participants, which is the only meaningful way that a human will interact with something as abstract as cultural norms
>I'll point out that he seems to prefer modern societies in his objective actions
>I get into an argument with some faggot
I have a detailed infographic here that should explain it a bit more clearly.
>>791468
It seems like you've got no idea what you're talking about. I'm not going to bother to illuminate your lack of awareness of historical and philosophical methodology or of the history and basics of logic. You should go to school to learn that.
>>791494
Well, it seems that you've run out of shit to fling.
Hopefully this pointless discussion kept the thread bumped so some more people could learn about the Japanese holdouts.
>>791383
>We have the tools for this experiment. We have a richly documented history that shows Japan with a traditional society, and a modern society.
You have two time points. You ignore everything in between. You cannot control for all the variables. You do not know the myriad other realities/futures which could/might have played out.
You are an idiot if you think you can make such deductions or even think that what you are doing is scientific in anyway.
Your arguments are completely specious and without basis.
>>791505
I haven't run out of shit to fling, I've run out of patience for STEMfags and Redditors who have no idea how to make an argument about a philosophy. Fuck off back to /b/ now, poseur.
>>791508
Well, you can never account for all the variables.
It's a country of millions of people all living their own lives.
What I can do is something akin to Fermi estimation.
North Korea isn't Imperial Japan, but it's somewhere within an order of magnitude.
We don't need scientific rigor to fuck around with empirical arguments.
>>791517
That's it, you're my least favorite poster, on par with fifel
>>787451
Outgoing through optics? Yes.
Incoming? Not so much...
This is the same kind of claim made by the dude that founded Aikido....which was also bullshit.
>>791520
Oh come on, neither of them are nearly as bad as the evangelical Protestant.
>>791922
Which one?
>>792184
The one that insists that Catholicism is actually a continuation of Babylonian paganism, is responsible for the creation of Islam, and that Jews can't properly read the Bible because they don't have the "holy spirit" in them, which is why they can't see that all the OT is really talking about Jesus, yada yada yada.
>>787451
if you see the flash, then it's already too late
>>792810
Right--which one?
