>There are vatniks on /his/ RIGHT NOW who think that WWII could have been won without America
Britain would have fallen without the Lend-Lease Act. Russia got a lot of trains and rolled steel from the USA, to the point where a Russian general said that they couldn't have won the war without the US's industrial support.
>>982083
>to the point where a Russian general said that they couldn't have won the war without the US's industrial support.
It wasn't just "a Russian general". It was /the/ Russian general, Georgy Zhukov who said that.
>Weeks credits Russian historians Boris V. Sokolov and Alla Paperno, as well as others, for having broken through the enforced silence surrounding the true extent and importance of Lend Lease to the Soviet war effort.(3) Also,Weeks acknowledges the contribution of Russian historian Aleksandr Vyslykh in emphasizing the importance of Lend Lease in Soviet Russia’s victory.(4)
>Until quite recently most Soviet authorities insisted that American aid had played only a minor role in the Red Army’s victory.
>But in 1963 even Marshal Georgy Zhukov confessed:
When we entered the war, we were still a backward country in the industrial sense, as compared to Germany. Today, some say the Allies really didn’t help us. . . . But listen, one cannot deny that the Americans shipped over to us materiel without which we could not have equipped our armies held in reserve or been able to continue the war. . . .We did not have enough munitions; and how would we have been able to turn out all those tanks without the rolled steel sent to us by the Americans?
>>982083
>Britain would have fallen without the Lend-Lease Act.
How? They won the Battle of Britain without it. They started to turn the tide of the Battle of the Atlantic before it.
>Russia got a lot of trains and rolled steel from the USA, to the point where a Russian general said that they couldn't have won the war without the US's industrial support.
No one is disputing the incredible amounts of aid the US sent, nor that they prevented massive loss of Soviet life - both civilian and military - nor that they provided huge boons to their logistics and industry.
However, the absolute vast majority of American supplies to the Soviet Union only came from 1943 onwards. At that point it would be extremely difficult to argue that the Germans were capable of winning - after the failure of Barbarossa at Moscow and after Stalingrad.
As for what Zhukov said, people say a lot of things. We shouldn't be looking with too much focus at what a single person said about an event which is relatively easily quantified and broken down into numbers.
>>982056
Without america entering the war?
Probably.
Without america existing?
Germans would have crushed the soviets and become unstoppable/overstretched.
No way... too much stopping for tea time.
https://youtu.be/7Qn0GnkFpwY?t=21m50s
B-but the third reich was defeated
>>982108
>How? They won the Battle of Britain without it. They started to turn the tide of the Battle of the Atlantic before it.
Probably because their army was a fucking mess and continually fucked up almost everything they touched. Look at Caen, Market Garden, Pegasus, Italy, North Africa, etc. If it weren't for American troops, the Soviets would have overrun all of Germany instead of just East Germany.
>>982146
I'm almost positive that if it weren't for the British fucking up literally everything on the Western Front, the war would have ended in '44 instead of '45.
>>982533
So how exactly is that an answer to the question why would Britain "fall" again?
>>982537
>can't go on offense
>can barely defend itself and still gets pounded more than your mother on the daily
Shouldn't take a genius to figure it out
>>982056
There are pol retards on his
>>982542
That was basically what Britain was like for the entirety of its existence and they still had the largest empire ever
>>982533
>I'm almost positive that if it weren't for the British fucking up literally everything on the Western Front, the war would have ended in '44 instead of '45.
Hell, extend that to the French and you can say '40.
On paper at least, the forces arrayed against Germany in the Battle of France were way superior to what Germany was using.
Its possible that they could have still won in Europe, so long as the US continued to give material support. Although without the US victory would have been far from assured.
In the Pacific however, there is no way that Japan would have been defeated by the Allies with out direct US involvement. There its merely a question of how much the Japanese could have held on to.
>>982892
Absolutely wrong. The Japanese surrendered solely because of the Soviet Invasion of Manchuria. Their Emperor even admitted this truth.
>>982542
By that logic, Germany is certain to fall to Britain.
>>982963
Are you retarded? They gave up because they had no chance with both US and Russia sending soldiers at them. They already knew they had little chance when they started the war with US.
>>982108
Show me a source on your claim about the timeframe of American resources being sent to Russia, else I'm siding with the Russian general.
>>982963
The soviets had no ships to even invade the Japanese mainland you retard.
>>982963
>completely ignoring entire Pacific War and focussing on one single event after the USA had already whittled down the Japanese navy and airforce to nothing
>>982146
>"You don't stop in the middle of a fire fight for tea!"
That made the video next level.
>>982056
Vatnik think WWI and WWII and revolutions in Russia at 1917 could not be in case an assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by Serbian Terrorist Gavrilo Princip not was.
Hello is this the shitposting thread?
Oh just the thought of that sweet sweet Aryan snatch waiting for them would have been enough impetus for the Russian troops to defeat the Nazis - no matter how long it took.
>>982963
>Japs surrender to the US and refuse to make peace with the Russians, even 71 years later
>IT WAS ALL BECAUSE OF THE RUSSIANS I SWEAR GUISE
Okay. Unfortunately, peace talks within the Japanese government only began after Hiroshima. If they had concluded sooner Nagasaki wouldn't have happened, but it urged them to speed things along. Hirohito can make any claim he wants, but he wasn't in power either way and honestly no Emperor had been for over a thousand years.
>>983168
>sweet sweet pure Aryan Gypsies
>>983179
...From India.
>>982056
I wish America didn't get involved in either
The world wars ruined America
>>983257
WWll brought america to glory
Baby boomers ruined america
>>983267
No America was already glorious
The World Wars shifted American focus from insular to worldly
That's anti-american desu
>>983179
Jesus fuck, gypsies make everything look 3rd world
>>983169
categorically incorrect, peace talks and feelers were underway well before hiroshima.
had the americans been willing to moderate the 'total surrender' demand to include the assurance that the emperor would be retained (which they did anyways after getting their precious unconditional surrender) there's every indication that peace could have come earlier.
this is all laid out in the actual history books, not the long tradition of 'historians' trying to retroactively justify the abombs on spurious claims.
>>982963
The Japanese surrendered because they were beat on every single front of the war. Their airforce was destroyed, their navy was destroyed, their army was destroyed, they had no resources, no chance to win and with the advent of the nuclear weapon, no chance to bottle up on their island either.
The reason they waited so long to surrender is because they were delusional in thinking they could still hold onto overseas colonies. With Russian entry into the war they were going to lose these colonies by force, so even their most pig headed leaders couldn't delay the inevitable anymore. Thinking the Russians forced the Japanese to surrender is retarded though. It was the US that smashed their ambitions and destroyed their military and any capacity to wage it. All the Russians did was cut off that last shred of hope the military fuckheads were clinging to.
There was absolutely no threat to the Japanese mainland from the Russians. Their plans to invade a northern island were to ask the US for transport ships because they didn't have any capable of making an amphibious assault.
>>983286
The main proponents of Japan continuing the war didn't care a rat's ass about the Emperor though. Peace talks had been underway since 1942. Throughout them all the Japanese were willing to "surrender" so long as they got to keep all of China and Korea and Manchuria and several of the major islands they had captured.
This was true even after the bombs dropped. Their most vocal and violent fools still hoped they could hold onto overseas colonies. Russian entry finally shut those guys down so cooler heads could prevail. The same Japs who had wanted to surrender for well over a year at that point.
>>983286
>Kick the ever loving crap out of a country after warning them for literally over a decade that they're going too far
>Send out an "offer" that would allow them to continue occupying most of China, what's now Indonesia, Vietnam, and Malaya.
>But no, you're the bad guy for rejecting that and continuing the war.
And you're calling other people revisionist? Hilarious.
>>983286
>had the americans been willing to moderate the 'total surrender' demand to include the assurance that the emperor would be retained (which they did anyways after getting their precious unconditional surrender) there's every indication that peace could have come earlier.
You don't understand the situation. The USA had no way of knowing what role the Emperor played in perpetuating the war. If he had been a major advocate of the war then leaving him in power would have been unacceptable. It was only after Japan unconditionally surrendered that the USA could determine if the emperor was guilty or not.
I honestly feel really bad for Russians.
>hundreds of thousands of Russians die to defeat Napoleon in 1812
>British take 100% of the credit for defeating Napoleon
>millions of Russians die to defeat Hitler's armies
>Americans take 150% of the credit for defeating Hitler
>>983483
I just feel bad people have to be born Russian.
>>982588
