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/his/ I'm at a dilemma. It turns out that I have Nazi collaborators (now dead) in my family, and much of my family is unaware of this. My mother's grandfather was part of a provisional government in Nazi occupied territory during the war, and fled when Russians took it back. An international committee cited him as a war criminal complicit in the holocaust. He escaped justice by fleeing the country, bringing his family as refugees to where I live today.
I've been learning more of my family's life, and talking to my Grandmother and reading her journal about her time as a refugee. Some deeper digging online and through archives led me to what I learned. I'm sure she knows about his role, but might be unaware that this government committee labels him as a war criminal. My mom doesn't know about his crimes or status and she just thinks he "was some kind of government official", not even aware he was working with Nazis. She even gave my brother his middle name after him. I'm unsure about my uncles.
I don't know if I should break the news, or just drop it all together. I don't want to press my grandmother about it since she's old and doesn't need that kind of stress.
I'm going to keep details fairly vague because I'm sure some savvy /his/torian could put together the pieces and find out who it is/I am.
Thoughts /his/?
>>759070
Post on /pol/ and be hailed as a hero
>>759081
I did. They encouraged me to embrace my nazi heritage, which I don't feel right being proud of
>>759090
then don't, embrace is, yes, it's your past but you dont have to be proud of it. Wasn't your fault your great grandpa killed Jewish kids, bro.
Your grandparents were the product of their geography and time.
Imagine the United States 20 years after the revolution is conquered and the republican system of government we operate on is suddenly considered not only taboo, but immoral.
Would this new world not seem foreign and nonsensical to you?
You know you're right, it's how you've operated for a long time.
Would you not feel that you need to preserve your values and secure a legacy?
These are your grandparents. They are not evil. They are not wrong. They are merely a product of their geography and time.
>>759113
all criminals are products of their environment. Doesnt change the fact that they are criminals and guilty of their actions
>>759134
If we're judging it by that fact, everyone during that war was a criminal.
>>759156
no, people tried and determined guilty by tribunal or court are criminals
>>759134
Guilty of what? You've only proven that we live in a world defined by their loss and nothing more.
If they won we would all be criminals, but you would be mewling about your innocence.
There is no guilt or innocence. We mercilessly slaughtered Japanese civilians during the firebombing of Tokyo and during the atomic bombings. We put Japanese people in huge camps.
Is that not what the Nazis did?
>>759070
>/his/ I'm at a dilemma.
I didn't get this. What is the dilemma in your story?
You shouldn't feel any guilt, it's not your fault that your grand grandfather was a nazi.
>>759178
>We put Japanese people in huge camps.
New to the thread, but you really can only make the most superficial comparisons between the American internment camps and the German ones. Japanese interned could get out for a number of reasons, like medical discharges, application to university, or enlisting in the army.
I've yet to see anyone get out of a KZ because they wanted to go to college. More people were born in Japanese internment camps than died in them.
>>759183
Sorry should have made it clearer.
Should I tell my family what I've found?
>>759183
Did you only read half the post? The dilemma is whether to tell his family or not. In my opinion, tell them after your grandmother passes away, in however many years that is.
>>759200
We still put them in camps. If the Japanese were on our doorstep and we were losing capital and resources as fast as the axis was, you can bet your bottom dollar the ones in the camps would be the first left behind.
We like to pretend that our country is more virtuous than any other because we didn't do the thing the enemy did "as badly." This is merely us deluding ourselves into believing we aren't villains.
We are.
Everyone is a villain.
>>759225
>If the Japanese were on our doorstep and we were losing capital and resources as fast as the axis was, you can bet your bottom dollar the ones in the camps would be the first left behind.
He says as if intentional murder wasn't one of the primary reasons the Germans put people in camps, as opposed to what the Americans were doing.
That makes a big fucking difference, you realize.
>>759225
please take your fedora tipping somewhere else.
>>759170
i.e. the winner writes the history, doesn't make them morally righteous.
>>759070
What country? Was it in the Soviet Union you fascist pig dog
>>759238
Germans only really started the death camps in place when they ran out of places to put Jews after taking their shit. Hitler would have been content with the seizure of all Jewish property and having them all flee to Israel. The problem was that other countries kept turning away Jewish refugees, and when Hitler decided to keep pressing east, not only was he not able to move Jews further east, but he also conquered an increasing number of Jews.
>>759238
Murder was not the primary reason. Jews were an enemy to them, yes, but that's like saying we intended the murder of the Japanese because they were our enemies and we put them in camps.
The majority of oppressed minorities in nazi Germany died of starvation and disease, during the latter days of the war when there was no money, no resources, and no time. In addition, many prisoners of war suffered the same fate.
If we were doing as bad as them, it would've been the same for our Japanese.
We just had the good fortune to not lose the war.
>>759249
Please take your moral relativism to a board not dedicated to philosophy.
>>759279
America and Britain bombed Germany's factories and caused food shortages. Why would POWs and other prisoners be fed more than German civilians? Collateral damage goes beyond the targets on the map.
>>759279
Germany was aiming to reduce its Jewish population almost as soon as it acquired Poland.
>>759281
>Murder was not the primary reason.
It kind of was. Why do you think Jews, Slavs, and other "untermenschen" died in such higher rates in German camps than say, western PoWs?
>The majority of oppressed minorities in nazi Germany died of starvation and disease, during the latter days of the war when there was no money, no resources, and no time. In addition, many prisoners of war suffered the same fate.
I would direct you to Hans Frank's diaries, as well as NIall Ferguson's "Prisoner Taking and Prisoner Killing in the Age of Total War: Towards a Political Economy of Military Defeat"
"Resource shortages" has a hard time explaining why 57.5% of Soviet PoWs held by Germans died in captivity, while only 3.5% of British PoWs did.
I'm saying this in the assumption that you're intellectually honest and just misinformed. You're probably a stormfaggot.
>>759332
Factories don't produce food. Farms do. British and American bombing concentrated on the Ruhr and other targets in Western Germany. Somehow, I don't think the destuction of coal, ball bearings, synthetic oil, and hydroelectric plants cause mass starvation, especially since the deadliest camps were in areas that weren't bombed much, produced food, and were actually closer to said camps than the German heartland itself.
OP Here. I wish I knew how to delete this shitty off topic thread
>>759488
Because Poland had a lot of Jews. They weren't looking to do it when they annexed Austria.
>>759496
You can't.
>>759070
The nazis were the good guys. You should be proud.
OP, maybe post on the advice thread? I think they will help you ;)
Sweet
>>759070
>>759113
Why would his grandparents be guilty of anything at all?
>>759134
>criminals
>guilty of their actions
What did his grandparents do, exactly?
>>759279
>"death camps"
>Hitler gassed 6 gorillion Jews for no reason
>Hitler did not make the Jews work, even though he was fighting a war
>no evidence
>evidence to the contrary
Tell me. What death camps?
>>759488
>It kind of was. Why do you think Jews, Slavs, and other "untermenschen" died in such higher rates in German camps than say, western PoWs?
No it wasn't. Source please. Western PoWs weren't kept in camps in anything remotely like the numbers of concentration camp prisoners and were there for a much shorter period of time, so of course supply and disease/sanitation wouldn't be as much of an issue, if it was an issue at all.
Reminds me of the time /pol/ helped a Jew anon discover his roots.
>>763907
Also, the WW2 typhus epidemic came from the east.
>>759070
Is your brother's middle name Harry?
>>759070
>LE EBUL NAZEES
No one cares
>>763907
>so of course supply and disease/sanitation wouldn't be as much of an issue,
What a load of nonsense.
Disease doesn't care how long you've been there, if you're exposed you're exposed.
Numbers of prisoners is irrelevant as well, as you're conceding by default that not all prisoners were treated equally.
>>759134
>nazis
>did anything wrong
ok, tumblr
>>763527
>>763939
man that fucking sucks. However, that Nazi / Jew romance would make tons of cash as a romance novel
Which nation?
>>765142
Are you claiming that a few hundred people for a few months in the West Germany where there is no typhus are harder to supply/sanitise than millions of people in the occupied East for several years where there is a typhus epidemic and everyone is fleeing the scorched earth red rape army?
>>765237
Good job antifa.
so wiesenthal was after your gramps?
let them know the fucker is dead and they should allocate resources to finding others
>>759255
Probably Poland but idk.
Most probable considering jew killing and retaking by soviets
>>759183
Agreed. To feel shame or recieve punishment for the sins of your father is something humanity abolished over 2000 years ago for the most part (/his/ will probably correct me in this but im pretty sure the new testament at least speaks out against it)
Sure, SJWs are trying to bring it back bur dont let yourself be drawn into their guilt game. 4chan was putting up a good fight against this sins of the father bullshit until /pol/ ruined it for everybody.
You aint your ancestors and they arent you. Furthermore he was one man caught up in something much bigger than himself, you shouldnt hate him
>>759255
Calm down now Ruskie im sure your ancestors in the war were murderous rapists
>>765237
>gif
I remember when our tour guide in Nuremberg told us that the Allies wanted to blow up the whole stadium they simply couldn't. All of it was made of granite, so they scraped together all the explosives they had and only blew up the Swastika.
I ate my lunch at the bottom of the terrace. T'was a good sandwich.
In Slovakia we view the anti-fascists as collaborators.
>>763907
It is quite literally in the post
Prisoner Taking and Prisoner Killing in the Age of Total War: Towards a Political Economy of Military Defeat" By Niall Ferguson.
>>759070
>/his/ I'm at a dilemma.
Cool blog bro. Keep us updated on your interesting dilemma. I hope you recover from this shocking and traumatic discovery someday. I can def see a movie and book coming out of this...
LEAVE YOUR GRANDMOTHER ALONE AND GET A LIFE YOU ATTENTION WHORING FAGGOT!
God I can't stand fucking millennials man. They would sell their own grandmother for a fake drama and a few facebook likes.
I don't normally wish people harm but fucking die man, just fucking die in a fire.
>be swefag
>grandfather on fathers side fought commie scum in continuation war
>relatives on mothers side were nazis
>iirc one enrolled in ss
>honor their memory every day
They'd be rolling in their graves if they knew the situation in Sweden today though.
>>759070
I found myself in a similar situation when I looked into my ancestry. I'm an Englishman who is descended from a Confederate soldier who fled America after the civil war ended, fearing that he'd suffer federal reprisal for fighting for the south. For years I had this romantic image in my head of an ordinary southerner who picked up a rifle and joined the cause to defend his homeland from yankee invasion. When I looked into it further it turned out he was a prolific slave trader and made a fortune off of selling blacks to large cotton plantations in the deep south. He fled for England not because he feared the government, but because he was afraid that newly freed slaves (especially blacks he had personally sold) were going to seek revenge.
You can't undo the past and it's not your burden to take responsibility for. What your forebears did is their responsibility. The blame and the condemnation rests with them and not you. You can't accept responsibility for their crimes. They were a product of the era and the society/political climate they found themselves in.
>>765940
>Allies wanted to blow up the whole stadium they simply couldn't.
Good thing.
I can understand getting rid of the Swastika, but it would've been a real shame if they got rid of the whole stadium.
>all this white guilt
who gives a fuck. Ever powerful nation on earth was built on bodies, the idea that only you should feel guilty or be ashamed of your ancestor is just a tactic used to control you. You think Geronimo's descendants feel guilty about all the innocent mexicans he slaughtered? You think Shaka's descendants aren't proud of his bloody conquests. My ancestor was a slave-owner and I couldn't care less, hell, America wouldn't even exist without slavery.
Well, you could be ashamed for bein murican too(look at bombings of Dresden, Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki)... but okay, they won the war... till now, they dont have a dictator in person, their Dictator is green with Washingtons face on it...
Sorry for my bad english, im german, and yes i know what the germans did, but i hear and see too what the others did.
>>759279
>flee to Israel
????
Israel didn't exist pigfucker.
>>766256
>mexicans
>innocent
Not even modern day whites believe that.
>>767178
Hitler considered buying land in Palestine for deportation.
>>767311
>land
Hitler planned to deport all jews to Madagaskar too and make a jewish island out of it... No shit dude
>>765374
Except there were non-Russian Allied POWs held in Auschwitz chucklefuck. Were they magically immune to this apparently unstoppable typhus epidemic that Germany was supposedly impotent to contain?
>>759070
>a provisional government in Nazi occupied territory during the war, and fled when Russians took it back
Eastern Europe
You most likely live in England or USA, since you can speak english so good.
>>766018
Primary sources please. I'm not interested in repetitions of lies decades after the fact by some Brit who got duped by a hoax. At least he got a few shekels out of it though. If there is anything interesting in it, do feel free to share rather than just name dropping.
Did Hans Frank confess to the holocaust? Nope. Did he describe how it was carried out? Nope. Because it didn't fucking happen.
Let me tell you about another Frank. Otto Frank's family was interned in Auschwitz for almost two months WITHOUT BEING GASSED, although the mother DIED OF STARVATION. They were then all transferred to Bergen Belsen where Anne Frank and her sister DIED OF TYPHUS. Otto Frank survived the war. Why weren't any of them holocausted? If their experience can be taken as representative, which it is according to the evidence, then this is tragic, but a far cry from a holocaust.
Why battle-hardened and disciplined soldiers living under completely different circumstances survived at higher rates than persecuted families like this is too obvious to require explanation.
>>767858
Not only does typhus attack indiscriminately, the epidemic started in the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front.
To be honest with you, I wasn't aware there were Western PoWs at Auschwitz. 1,400 Brits were interned in the separate camp near Monowitz, about 5 miles from the main camp, and most were transferred into Germany before D Day and while the Eastern Front was still in Russia, i.e. before infrastructure broke down. 600 were left in Auschwitz in the separate camp. Note how it was 5 miles separate. They weren't immune, they were just separate from it.
Unfortunately, all of this is rather academic, since there is no evidence of the holocaust other than rumours, fraud, lies and absurd extrapolations. You'll need more than that to convince me of your spooky conspiracy theory. No mass graves. No documentation. No gassing infrastructure. No forensics. There is, however, evidence of starvation and typhus.
>>767890
>implying
>>767178
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
>>768266
Haha man I seriously wonder what your IQ is. Even if your image represents the truth (which it doesn't) how can it possibly still make up for the Holocaust.
>Jews transported to camps
>Treated horribly
>Shitloads died in your so-called "concentration" camps only
>Hurrdurr, Holocaust didn't happen
Where the fuck do you think all the registered Jews in your "Death" camps went anyways? They just dissappeared into thin air?
I despise people like you even more than the majority of WWII german soldiers who were just thinking they were fighting for their country, while they should've rather certainly heard about the rumours of treatment of "inferior" races.
>>768359
My IQ is 120. I'm a graduate from the number one university for my (core) subject in the UK. Not intelligent to resist replying to an ad hom apparently.
>Jews transported to camps
>Treated horribly
>Shitloads died in your so-called "concentration" camps only
>Hurrdurr, Holocaust didn't happen
That is completely and utterly different to what I and all of us were taught in school and what we are shown in media, and you know it. Paradigm shiftingly different.
And no. What happened to the jews in the camps was not intended or actively inflicted according to the historical evidence. The German treatment of the jews was not materially different from the American internment of the Japanese, according to the historical sources. Prove me wrong. With evidence.
Where do you think all the jews in America and Israel came from? Thin air?
Pic related when I made you despise me. I would call the Holocaust(TM) a fraud and hoax (which it is according to the evidence) all day long for the pleasure of this alone.
>>767268
?
Yeah the mexican military was full of shits but he massacred almost all mexican civilians he found during raids.
