Library link as usual-
Temple of Solomon the King (occultism, esotericism, anthropology and religion resources):
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ
(For the topic of this thread, scroll down to Gnostic Studies).
This is going to be another thread that's hard to approach. It takes 300 pages to give outlines of Gnosticism so I can only give the crudest sketches while directing folks to primary source material.
Who, or what, where the Gnostics? A Christian sect is the easy answer, but you'll quickly find that their opponents painted them as immoral Godless heretics, and their modern extreme apologists like to paint them as innocent contemplative ascetics. The truth is either in between, or both; Gnosticism is not a monolithic ideology. It comes in many strains and flavors: Ophites, Sethites, Mandaeans, Valentineans, Barbeloites, etc., etc., etc., the list goes on. For better or worse, the literature on Gnosticism is better in German, so I'll be borrowing quotes from snippets of translation. RE: The nature of the Gnostic cults - Sloterdijk's distinction between libertine and ascetic Gnosis is illuminating:
>"The amoral style leads to a homeopathic ascetic: this weakens the Evil of sin, in that they are committed thoughtfully and ironically, as if by quota: the Gnostic embraces the sin and experiences thereby a critical decay in his own body, finally to climb out of the gutter fully burnt out. — The world is a pornographic purgatory, from which to filter the immaculate Pneumata. The abstaining style, in contrast, applies allopathic methods against the sickness of the World: against the poisons of the cosmos it administers immediate flight from the world as an antidote. Civil disobedience against the lower body, general strike against the astral works, bathings in tears, fasting of the heart."
>>940755
This begs some questions: At the beginning of the 3rd C. Clement of Alexandria condemns the Carpocratians for their rites which he describes as excuses to indulge in gluttony and lust. A little while later Celsus accuses Origen of doing this shit, and he quickly points the finger at the Ophites. What's less known is that even the Gnostics were accusing each other of practicing this sort of thing: Pistis Sophia curses, even into the outer darkness, in the name of Christ, those who eat of a lentil dish made with semen and menstrual blood. Two Egyptian testimonies appear in the 3-4th C. that continue this motif, probably in the vein of Phibionite festive meals. The Book of Jesu condemns similar practices. Oddly, though someone then in turn accuses the Barbeloites (who consider the text Pistis Sophia as a core component of their faith, the one that condemns sexual practices) of “obscene rites:...Epiphanius (died. 403) makes this claim in Panarion 26. Irenaeus accuses some Gnostic sect of eating a lentil dish made from menstrual fluid and semen.
A lot of people like to paint the Gnostics writ large as this highly puritanical sort of ascetic group. The fact remains that SOMEONE out there was a dirty degenerate sexual heretic, and I wanna know who, goddamnit. They are probably singularly important for transmitting what few scraps of practice the West inherited.
Gnosticism is characterized by by complex theologies which were borrowed from Neoplatonism and modified according to emerging Christist religion and, to a lesser extent, from the last gasps of the Hekhalot/Merkavah traditions of Hebrew Mysticism. Different sects had different trajectories of practice. The Mandaeans town down the high philosophy in favor of a REJECTION of Christ in favor of John the Baptist and other mythical figures; they become more magick/mythic oriented than dwelling on the taxonomy of reality.
>>940784
As mentioned, other groups have more complex cosmologies. Pic related is a diagram of the Ophite cosmos; with it's division of reality into strata. Above is the Kingdom of God as Father and Son, below being the realm of Life, Spirit, and Soul, ruled over by Sophia; manifesting as both Gnosis (Knowledge) and Synesis (Insight). The intersection is Sophia's subtle nature.
>>940797
Still others are more complex, such as this diagram of the cosmological structure of the Secret Book of (Apocryphon) John.
Anyhow, the two most important texts I can think of are Kurt Rudolph's “Nature and History of Gnosticism” and “The Other Bible” edited by Willis Barnstone. With these texts one gets enough of a footing and understanding of Gnosticism as a whole to figure out which sects attract one's attention the most so one can focus on a particular sect or denomination that resonates with Self.
>>940806
I'll contine up by posting some photos from Mandaean diwans: This is an image of planetary stations with armed demons. The large figure is probably Ur, the ruler of darkness, represented with his contingent.
The “World of Darkness” is governed by the “Lord of Darkness” (mara d-hšuka) and arose from the “dark waters” (meyi siawi, or ʿkumi, tahmi) representing the chaos. The main powers of the world of darkness are a giant monster or dragon with the name Ur (probably a polemic transformation of hebr. ʿor “light”) and the evil (female) “Spirit” (ruha). Their offspring are demonic beings (daiwi) and “angels” (malaki). To them belong also the “Seven” (šuba), i.e., the planets (šibiahyi), and the “Twelve” (trisar) signs of the Zodiac; they are sons of Ur and Ruha.
>>940829
Here we have the scales of the soul (lower) with Abathur, Lord of Scales, represented above, on his throne. On the right hand balance stands Shitil, whose purity the righteous soul must outweigh if it is to enter the Kingdom of Light. (Yes, correlations with Ma'at seem appropriate here).
Abatur (sometimes called Abathur, Yawar and the Ancient of Days) is the third of four emanations from the supreme, unknowable deity in the Mandaean religion. His name translates as the "father of the Uthre", the Mandaean name for celestial beings. His usual epithet is the Ancient (Atiga) and he is also called the deeply hidden and guarded. He is described as being the last son of the Second Life, or Yoshamin, the most important figure in Mandaean religion and the one from whom they took their name.
He is one of the main characters in the book the Diwan Abatur, one of the more recent texts of the Mandaeans. The text begins with a lacuna. He is said to reside on the borderland between the here and the hereafter, at the farthest verge of the Worlds of Light that lies toward the lower regions. Beneath him was originally nothing but a huge void with muddy black water at the bottom, in which his image was reflected. The text starts with Hibil Ziwa, the first emanation, telling Abatur to go and reside in the boundary between the Worlds of Light and Darkness, and weigh for purity those souls which have passed through all the purgatories and wish to return to the light. Abatur is not happy with the assignment, complaining that he is being asked to leave his home and his wives. Abatur then rather impatiently asks a whole series of questions regarding specific sins of omission and sins of commission, asking in effect how can such impure souls be saved. Hiwil Ziwa then answers these questions in a rather lengthy response.
>>940784
>Gnostics writ large as this highly puritanical sort of ascetic group
Yeah, no. Hedonists all.
>>940856
An incantation bowl, also known as a demon bowl, devil trap bowl, or magic bowl, is a form of early protective magic found in modern-day Iraq and Iran. Produced in the Middle East during the Late Antiquity from 6th to 8th century AD (see Asuristan), the bowls were usually inscribed in a spiral, beginning from the rim and moving toward the center. Most are inscribed in Aramaic languages. The bowls were buried face down and were meant to capture demons. They were commonly placed under the threshold, courtyards, in the corner of the homes of the recently deceased and in graveyards.
Aramaic incantation bowls are an important source of knowledge about Jewish magical practices, particularly the nearly eighty surviving Jewish incantation bowls from Sassanid Babylon (226-636 CE), primarily from the Jewish diaspora settlement in Nippur. These bowls were used in magic to protect against evil influences such as the evil eye, Lilith, and Bagdana. At the same period in Syria Christian incantation bowls are also found, often in Syriac rather than Jewish Hebrew-Aramaic script.
>>940864
>all
see
>Sloterdijk: The abstaining style, in contrast, applies allopathic methods against the sickness of the World: against the poisons of the cosmos it administers immediate flight from the world as an antidote. Civil disobedience against the lower body, general strike against the astral works, bathings in tears, fasting of the heart."
Rudolph also agrees with the multivariate interpretation.
>>940887
(Hopefully this is legible)
>>940903
Here's an amulet.
This is about as much of the OP as I had typed out, tbqh.
Thoth, are you really in grad school? Do you even have a focus? You seem like you are in middle school
>>941039
I was an undeclared graduate admission when I first started using a tripcode. Glad I slummed around some departments or I'd probably not be enjoying myself quite as much as I am. Also, I didn't wanna get a masters in something as narrowly useful as my undergrad; may as well save the heavy lifting for afterwards and use the practical degree as backup.
What about the thread thus far indicates a middle school tone?
>>940903
Hedonists live by the flesh; either indulging it, or restricting it. Either way, they don't live by the Spirit.
You're so clear that these people hate God, and rebel against God, but you seem quite unclear that their beliefs led to their eternal damnation.
>>941088
>what indicates a middle school tone?
namefagging on 4chan
>>941094
That's nice. You here to interface with the concepts or proselytize?
(FWIW I'd agree with the extremes of ascesis and aesthesis being born of the same desire and pleasure; there is a third way, and one could make a number of arguments that some groups did indeed use a third way).
>>941115
I don't know. I don't know how to not care enough about you to warn you about the consequences of this occult hobby of yours. This is old stuff. You know it's old stuff. You can see what happened to the people who believed it was true, over the ages. You can watch them ruin themselves, their lives, their families, their countries.
You must somehow believe you have something new to add, or a new angle that makes these things not as bad as they used to be.
Or you just flipped against God, and want to do all the damage you can while you can.
You're kind of like people who snort $500 a day in cocaine and "accidentally" overdose.
>>941088
the lack of focus. I mean, the resources you post are good, but they can be on one topic instead of 50 different ones. they don't get productive. sorry, probably 'middle school' was a bad choice of word, but I don't get much out of the threads if there are 50 different topics in one thread, it's good to change up topics once a week, but having multiple topics in one thread is too much.
>>941111
Impressive.
It helps when the other folks who interact a lot start sharing their opinions too. It helps keeps everyone's position straight. You know that if xphile is around it's going to be a largely Buddhist and mathfag perspective. I'm from the Thelemic archaeofag school, etc. Cuts down on having to stop to figure out who's arguing with who.
>>941133
>Or you just flipped against God, and want to do all the damage you can while you can.
"Blessed is the ground for your sake. In skill and cunning thou shall feast of it all the days of your life.
Fruits also and medicines shalt it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
In the joy of thy face shalt thou feast, till thou shalt be married to the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for love thou art, and to love shalt thou return."
Brother...let us go into the field.
>>941161
Some people like academic texts on one topic and one topic only.
Others like diachronic overviews; article assemblies on a topics in a theme.
I'd considered doing Mandaeans only.
I dunno, would you rather me post a dank smug looking pepe with the exact phrases ">hypostasis" or ">sympathetic magic" or ">Hevajra"?
>>941165
That, um, sound suspiciously like what Cain told Abel....
I don't know you, but I like you, and I know Jesus loves you. So how can I stop telling you that?
>>941217
>The figures on the wheel are darker than the wheel itself; in fact, they are stains upon the purity of the wheel, and for that reason, and because of the whirling of the wheel, I cannot see them. But at the top seems to be the Lamb and Flag, such as one sees on some Christian medals, and one of the lower things is a wolf, and the other a raven. The Lamb and Flag symbol is much brighter than the other two. It keeps on growing brighter, until now it is brighter than the wheel itself, and occupies more space than it did.
>It speaks: I am the greatest of the deceivers, for my purity and innocence shall seduce the pure and innocent, who but for me should come to the centre of the wheel. The wolf betrayeth only the greedy and the treacherous; the raven betrayeth only the melancholy and the dishonest. But I am he of whom it is written: He shall deceive the very elect.
>>941243
>I am the greatest of deceivers
>my purity and innocence
Pick one.
>>941243
lest he deceive the very elect.
lest he.
he will be stopped.
>>941259
It is your doctrine that the Angel of Deception most often manifests as a shining purity of form, is it not?
>>941262
>The Lamb will be stopped.
One can only act as much as one is able to.
>>941279
No that is not the doctrine. The adversary masquerades as an angel of light but there is no purity in his deception.
>>941279
If the devil came to you as a broken down crippled goat man reeking of attar, you'd likely show him the door.
He can appear as an angel of light, because that's what he used to be.
Now, he just hurts people. Bad.
Hey thoth, you said you used to go by frater k on x, and I remember some of your stuff a few years ago.
How'd you get started into the occult? Did you join an organization or primarily self study, and what made you interested in esoteric stuff?
If you need to be vague or whatever, that's fine,i understand the culture of this sort of stuff, but I am interested in how you started.
>>941316
You are talking about at least 3 different devil figures from Baphomet to Samael. The only thing that hurts is the truth. Lies are just you hurting yourself.
>>941322
>puts in notebook.
Thanks!
>>941316
>If the devil came to you as a broken down crippled goat man reeking of attar, you'd likely show him the door.
My ritual space is open to all spirits in all manifestations.
>>941322
Self study early, orgs later on, supervised study now.
Basic curiosity, really. I got into materialistic/psychological interpretations of magick when I was real young and the more varied material I worked the more I came to suspect an underlying spiritual substance to the work.
>>941342
To be serious for a second; you think Samael's fallen? I thought Ezra just sorta replaced him as Azrael.
>>941361
I don't think Samael is anything but one of the many left hands of God. It's just a common theme. Plus I'm tired of the Morningstar getting such a bad rap. He's a little sweetheart who dindu nuffin.
>>941361
>supervised study
Hmm. I assume you ended up meeting someone in an organization that had a lot more experience on the subjects you were interested in. I hope to find something like this one day.
Thanks for the response, and thanks for giving your materials so freely and sharing the knowledge. I'll probably start visiting the general regularly, and commit to gaining some insight on the subjects that interest me.
>>941408
I'd fuck him.
No homo.
>>940755
"It is also to be noted incidentally that if the coffer in the King's Chamber be struck, the sound emitted has no counterpart in any known musical scale. This tonal value may have formed part of that combination of circumstances which rendered the King's Chamber an ideal setting for the conferment of the highest degree of the Mysteries."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta09.htm
Anyone have more information on this? Is this legitimate?
>>941561
>Is this legitimate?
No, the only way it could be is if the sound was outside the range of human hearing.
>>940755
>the Gnostic embraces the sin and experiences thereby a critical decay in his own body, finally to climb out of the gutter fully burnt out.
Not be condescending, but do you have a sufficient understanding of magic to know what this means?
>>941088
> they don't live by the Spirit.
True
>clear that these people hate God, and rebel against God,
Also true, but the gnostics would have no idea.
>>940755
Love sloterdijk, surprised You Must Change Your Life isn't more popular with alt-religious types. What do you think of his notion of Guardian Angel?
>A lot of people like to paint the Gnostics writ large as this highly puritanical sort of ascetic group. The fact remains that SOMEONE out there was a dirty degenerate sexual heretic, and I wanna know who, goddamnit. They are probably singularly important for transmitting what few scraps of practice the West inherited.
What makes you think it was a big ol' mudslingin' meme?
>>940864
Classic christian criticism is that the gnostics despised the body and the material world
>>941687
>was a big ol' mudslingin' meme?
wasn't, sorry>>941165
>"Blessed is the ground for your sake. In skill and cunning thou shall feast of it all the days of your life.
>Fruits also and medicines shalt it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
>In the joy of thy face shalt thou feast, till thou shalt be married to the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for love thou art, and to love shalt thou return
nice inversion, kinda lovely, source?
>>941610
>Not be condescending, but do you have a sufficient understanding of magic to know what this means?
Tantra. Or Bon practice if you want to split hairs and BE the edgy poison eating peacock instead of just riding it into the heavens.
Ancient Gnosticism is just a collection of Dionysian death cults. Past a certain point, it is the ramblings of madmen. The point of derailment which causes this state is common throughout history.
Modern Gnosticism is basically just idiots going back into the past to make sense of tea leaves and create their own non-sense.
>>940784
>Celsus accuses Origen
It is a philosophical game. They are on the same side, it is propaganda.
>>941714
Nope.
>>941798
How is it not?
>>941561
The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld.
>They fall down before Atmu Harmachis. For His Majesty gave orders to the cycle of his followers. His Majesty ordered to give praise to the Eye, and behold, my flesh he gave it strength, and all my limbs are renewed, as soon as the order came out of the mouth of Ra.
https://desustorage.org/his/thread/924082/#930089
>What makes you think it was a big ol' mudslingin' meme?
IJS Western use of White and Red essence didn't just pop out of thin air.
You'll have to fill me in on his concepts w/r/t the Angel. I trust little outside vague allegory and, like, Levinas.
>>941693
>93
Genesis 3 and me.
>>941716
Would you like to talk about any of the materials in the OP's folders in reference to make-your-own nonsense? We have old scriptures and practices, neo-revisions, and academia to mediate them.
>>941807
>fully burnt out
>>941832
>Not Immolatiing the Self in Adoration to Para Vak, the Highest Primordial Logos
>>941832
Nibbana means exactly that. Extinguished. Thus tantra.
All these unimaginative Christcucks. Christ and magic can co-exist. Are there not angels as well as demons? Can not Jesus bind demons? Are not all daemons in a Greek sense not necessarily demonic in a Christian sense? If you believe in God then you open yourself to a vast realm of spirit that extends far, far further than merely between Christ and Satan. Personally, I love these threads and have read a lot from them and learned a lot through gnostic writings particularly in my youth. They have helped me see things from different angles, Jung especially. I am an occultist, but I also am a Christian and attend Roman Catholic Mass with my family on holidays. I believe that most of the grimoire tradition was written by Christians. Even Thelema is somewhat Christian.
>>941890
>Thelema is somewhat Christian
Um, I highly advise reading through:
>Gospel According to St. Bernard Shaw
>Revelation
>The Vision and the Voice
Before anyone attempts to analyze Thelema from the lens of Christianity in a sociocultural sense. Crowley tips his hand and tells you the whys of it all in Gospel.
>>941243
Does this mean you believe Christ is a deceiver?
>>941917
I hold the theological position of Docetism, like Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Perfectibilists (aka Bavarian Illuminati). This position holds that Yeshuah was a manifestation of pure spirit; an apparition...at least when interfacing with Gnosticism in a practical sense.
Given this position I don't really feel the Nazarene's beholden to the same conceptions of Truth we are.
>>941945
are you saying that jesus was 2spooky?
>>941958
Yeah, and there's plenty of Apocrypha backing that position up if the Chalcedonian heretics would pull their heads out of their asses and look.
>>941830
Ha! scored a 93 last time i posted here too. You're a talented writer Ape! Do you mind if i call you by your first name? Blood and semen (and shit in church accounts) could have occurred to the gnostic/antignostic propagandists "out of thin air" as just the most obvious and visceral parody/perversion of the mass as a ritual embibing of bodily fluids. I mean, a step from, "The wine is literally christ's blood" to "These deviants were literally drinking blood" to "and the host was made with semen" seems plausible to me.
I don't know if Sloterdijk's guardian angel has anything to do with the Thelemic Angel, although i suspect it might. He references Crowley in You Must Change Your Life (something like "feral attempts at the rehabilitation of matter", and i think comparing him favorably against hubbard).
Bubbles, where he talks about the guardian angel, is slipperier than his other stuff i've read, and im not sure to what extent he's being literal or poetic, psychoanalytic or phenomenological at different points. He talks about the Guardian Angel as the original, perfect friend of each of us. It's with us in the womb as the placenta, and for the rest of our lives we feel it's absence and long for it. Not sure if he's saying that it's a sort of memory or learned craving for the placenta or if the placenta is it's first substantiation in our lives. It makes it possible for us to transform ourselves by becoming a better part of us which we acknowledge as our superior, which guides us, watches us, and lends us its strength when we submit to it's standards. Sometimes it seems like he's talking about us splitting ourselves so we can have part of us be the watcher, but i don't know if that's all he means. I was actually hoping you would share your take, because it was a concept i didn't really understand fully.
>>941975
Yeah of course, I"ve read quite a bit of that myself. I'm wondering what the justification of such a position entails, both from a historical standpoint and a current one.
>>941982
>justification
Gospel of Phillip
Second Treatise of the Great Seth
Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter
Gospel of Judas
In the Contra epistulam fundamenti (Against the Fundamental Epistle), Augustine of Hippo makes reference to the Manichaeans believing that Jesus was Docetic.
Gospel of Peter
Acts of John
Gospel of Basilides
Plus everything in the Illuminati rituals that I don't feel like transcribing out because I've had another long day. Order a copy of Secret School of Wisdom or wait for me to snap some photos or something, his justifications come from Canon itself, maybe I'll stick that further up on my to-do list.
I have all day tomorrow so I may pull out the scriptures when I get up in the morning (and I owe xphile some comments on Kabbalistic contemplation too).
>>941980
That doesn't sound far off from Crowley's starkest hints. See Magick Without Tears. I'm underqualified to talk about the Angel in any tangible sense and am not about to share the most intimate aspects of my praxis on shitpostchan. My best answer is to see Levinas's comments on "Face" in 'Totality and Infinity'.
>>941885
They are not the same thing. I know they sound similar, but that is not enough.
>>941581
>No, the only way it could be is if the sound was outside the range of human hearing.
Care to take the time to explain? I'm ignorant on the subject.
>>941830
>The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld.
>Coming forth by day
I've yet to give this a thorough read. Would you recommend the version in your Egyptian folder? Neat stuff.
Chapter 2
The Merkavah Moves as a Phantom Thunder
ANY WORD, SYMBOL, IDEATION, or amorphous perception can become an opportunity for contemplative practice, if the proper intention and view can be held steady. If subtle feeling tone resonances are coaxed from the sleep of habituation and allowed to pour through their mental constructs, subject and object can melt together and point to their continuous ground. If the essential nature of the ground can be directly and clearly recognized, the entire array of form and action can divulge the ultimate paradox of meaning through the twilight space of its display. The secret ingredient is profound longing, which mixes with inquiry. Directing the mind’s flight within this delicate and poignant register constitutes the symbol of the merkavah (chariot). The Jewish mystical tradition has used this symbol for profound inquiry since the ancient period, long before the word ‘kabbalah’ was used.
The merkavah is carried by the winds of poetic resonance. However these impressions are not an end in and of themselves. They are only doorways, like all phenomena, no more or less astonishing. What is unique about these nuances of feeling is their semi-tangible permeability. On one hand, they are barely there. But at the same time, they are profoundly vivid. They shimmer in the balance of the unsteady question of their existence. They never hold still, and vanish when the mind presses upon them too roughly. This is how they teach us how to deeply and precariously approach the paradox at the razor’s edge of form and formlessness.
The purpose of ethereal resonances is to draw us into the inner dimensions. As we immerse ourselves through the gross associative landscape of common expectations we learn to recognize the buried treasure in our midst. No matter how wondrous these feeling tones may seem, they can still be traps. The arrow of mind must not stop at any target. Hitting a target means grasping, whether it be at a paradise or a hell realm. The pursuit of gnosis is subsumed in endlessness. No stoppage point can deter its longing for the infinite. The goal is for the dynamism of the arrow to be realized as equal to the space through which it flies. The open nature of that dynamism usurps its linear motion, and a new aspect of its meaning becomes possible…and it is reborn. In this manner En Sof, the unattainable, is approached. If the arrow stops and hits any target, contemplation is officially over.
Navigating subtle feeling tones trains the practitioner to transfer the disposition of translucency to any mode of manifestation. If so-called solid matter can be treated with the same sensibility as the ever-elusive domain of poetics, a doorway opens. The problem of the world becomes its own solution, and mind passes through. However we might hardly know of this possibility if not for the accumulation of poetic resonances and their subtlety.
>>942396
Gradually the mind reconciles that walls that seem impermeable can indeed be permeated. However, this does not necessarily change their outer circumstances. Because of this, the cognitive value system is poised to make a decisive shift, from concern with circumstance to concern with essentiality. For a dedicated practitioner the greater usurps the lesser. This introduces the heart of the paradox. What appears to be slavery to contextual restrictions happens in the midst of absolute freedom. Concern with circumstance fades as concern with essentiality grows. It begins with longing for release, and then deepens into love. Love for the silence and beauty of basic space is the mark of the aspiration that sets meaning free.
As gnostic longing matures, meaning is self-liberated. Intimacy with the essential nature deepens each moment of perceptual life, and each moment no is longer sent off to die within the graveyard of temporal limitations. The impulse to break through its layered shadows unfurls beauty at its root. Beauty comes into its own, until all appearance is recognized as the mind’s own beauty. This recognition seals the universal fluidity of the adamah, and the isolation and extraction of the secret alchemical mercury begins in earnest.
Working with the secret mercury starts with a single spark of recognition. Through it, universes collapse and re-arise simultaneously. The paradox of this volatility is continual, always new; always in a constant state of beginning. Like a lightning flash, soul and world dissolve as they stand…as knowing and the unknowable merge in a single instant outside time or location. Each spark of its wonder consumes the whole world, yet the world never disappears.
>>942401
Each spark is a singular opening through wholeness, dissolving the fragmentation with which temporality and dimensionality are fabricated. Infinite torrents of these openings cascade throughout phenomena. In the mixing field, they can be siphoned through the mists of appearing circumstances. The deeper contemplation penetrates, the more such sparks are accumulated. They explode moments without the drag of linear time, as luminous clusters that move like winds. They hover like fogs and rain blessings upon everything. Their dizzying array of configurations defy number, but it all begins with the realization of a common singular root: the one true indivisible point of breakthrough beyond reification or division. This point reveals the paradox of singularity and infinite variation as the ground of total equality.
Without the spark of singular recognition the gnostic path is impossible. However through the portal of such a spark, the capacity to induce continual amazement is boundless. The resonance of astonishment seals mother space with her progeny; continually variable appearances. The always pregnant womb indivisibly seals wakeful brightness and unconscious darkness. It ripens in the night and sends its perfume through the day, felt in the secret place where sun and moon touch in the heart.
As practice deepens, the winds become pregnant with drops. The moments from which breakthroughs are collected pass beyond differentiation. The concepts of their coming and going no longer hold meaning. At the point of realization, one single drop floods immensity with its implications.
>>942396
Started getting shifty around the end of the first paragraph, completely derails by the second.
>>942401
>Gradually the mind reconciles that walls that seem impermeable can indeed be permeated.
They can't. Total derailment here, the pull of the transcendental has him, he has fully shifted into illusion. Mention of Love as if it is different from the winds of poetic resonance incoming.
>As gnostic longing matures, meaning is self-liberated. Intimacy with the essential nature deepens each moment of perceptual life, and each moment no is longer sent off to die within the graveyard of temporal limitations.
What is behind the impermeable is beyond temporal limitation. This can't come after that unless he is piecing things together which he does not have any experience or understanding of.
>>942404
Not even keeping his symbolism straight by this point, can no longer differentiate concepts, just blabbering constructed phantasms.
>>942461
Hello.
Can you make it right please?
>>942528
What?
>>941945
>This position holds that Yeshuah was a manifestation of pure spirit;
No, 'Yeshuah' is Logos, which is more like soul/psyche. You're cruising for a bruising with your lack of understanding.
The gnostics don't extinguish certain aspects of the fire which creates a controlled static flame. They let the whole fire burn out of control. The result is significantly less pretty, angels without wings trying to claw their way back to the moon and start their journey over. Misery, suffering, and a retreat from the world. A Promethean revolt against God.
Fanatic enthusiasm always turns puritanical, it is the only way to control the fire which now causes them suffering and fear.
>>942461
>DCS has neither experience nor understanding of the Kabbalistic and Nepalese schools he was trained in.
K.
>>942605
He means that you should show us the way, O Master.
>>942814
>the gnostics
Are not a monolithic group. In any case, pardon my lack of precision in terminology. Interestingly I think the reason Mandaeans reject Christ is because of this "soul/psyche/Logos" aspect: Why do you need Yeshuah if you got the Angel of Revelatory Logos on tap?
>>942976
>>DCS has neither experience nor understanding of the Kabbalistic and Nepalese schools he was trained in.
I delineated the point of derailment where his actual experience ends. I explained how this was observable. To be accurate, my position is that his experience and understanding reached their limit and kept going. Which is the major problem I have been trying to discuss surrounding the experience in question.
>He means that you should show us the way, O Master.
How dare I have an above average knowledge of this one aspect of magic I am overly familiar with!
>Are not a monolithic group.
They essentially are,superficial disagreements dont concern me when they are based in nonsense.
>Interestingly I think the reason Mandaeans
Mandaeans and Manicheans are not gnostic. They both stem from the classic Egyptian line.
> reject Christ is because of this "soul/psyche/Logos" aspect: Why do you need Yeshuah if you got the Angel of Revelatory Logos on tap?
What am I supposed to do with this, but say you dont know what you are talking about? The Angel of Revelatory Logos would be Hermes, who is Peter, who is one logos in the Logos that is Jesus, Jesus is the Logos made flesh between them, He is each of their logos combined into a covenant, an intermediary between man and God. The Mandaeans don't reject Jesus, they just call him what he is.
>>943047
>What am I supposed to do with this, but say you dont know what you are talking about? The Angel of Revelatory Logos would be Hermes, who is Peter, who is one logos in the Logos that is Jesus, Jesus is the Logos made flesh between them, He is each of their logos combined into a covenant, an intermediary between man and God.
Are you implying the Mandaeans don't revere Mahziel as the Angel of Logos? Or what, because it's hard to say that's not internal doctrine when we have their scripture fragments that directly name him as such.
>Mahziel, Great First Word, which assured me sight in mine eyes, pour wisdom into my heart! Open the eyes of my understanding!
^Hymns of Praise, Ginza Rba
>>942461
>They can't.
If you're familiar with the doctrine of the klifot I'd invite you to tell me, like, why, and how Kabbalah failed in its aims, and which methods are most viable for breaking the subtlest of these walls as described by Scholem?
You say his passage is impossible because he's talking about things he doesn't understand but you don't seem to be demonstrating what he should understand or how he went wrong.
>How dare I have an above average knowledge of this one aspect of magic I am overly familiar with!
And here I though DCS was revising Iyyun from the ground up.
>They both stem from the classic Egyptian line.
Yeah THAT'S why the Jordan is central to the faith rather than the Nile, at least RE: Mandaeans.
>>943081
>Are you implying the Mandaeans don't revere Mahziel as the Angel of Logos? Or what, because it's hard to say that's not internal doctrine when we have their scripture fragments that directly name him as such.
I'll do more than imply that. An Angel of Logos is nonsense. Mahziel, the Great First Word, is light, which came to be through the Logos, and is a logos which composes Logos etc. This is actually what John's contribution seems to be.
>If you're familiar with the doctrine of the klifot I'd invite you to tell me, like, why, and how Kabbalah failed in its aims, and which methods are most viable for breaking the subtlest of these walls as described by Scholem?
Klifot is a unique doctrine that is not exactly what is being discussed. Kabbalah doesn't fail. You could even equate what I mean by understanding to Binah. You don't break through any walls/veils. It is a trap for those who are not balanced and possessed of self-mastery.
>And here I though DCS was revising Iyyun from the ground up.
And? I am trained academic as well. As much as my use of twilight language and symbols makes me difficult to understand, and my hesitation to answer questions makes me protean , I really do know what I am talking about,
>Yeah THAT'S why the Jordan is central to the faith rather than the Nile, at least RE: Mandaeans.
it is almost like the egyptian style of spreading their religion is to adapt it to the region and their pre-existing symbols/gods. You know, like the Manicheans ;)
>>943244
>Klifot is a unique doctrine that is not exactly what is being discussed. Kabbalah doesn't fail. You could even equate what I mean by understanding to Binah. You don't break through any walls/veils. It is a trap for those who are not balanced and possessed of self-mastery.
Then I'll ask for, what, the third time for you to explain to us how to apprehend the Supernal.
It's cool that you're an academic as well, these threads are full of 'em. Most of 'em don't just go "no-huh" and leave it at that.
If you have alternate explanations for DCS's covering of topics, or alternate practices to rectify what he gets wrong or clarifies what he doesn't understand, maybe you could share?
>You don't break through any walls/veils.
In terms of like, you don't go anywhere? Or that the processes implied in the metaphor don't actually happen at all? Because DCS would agree on the first bit provided we look beyond what's posted in the thread...which is another reason I'd love a scan of Blazing Dew.
>>943081
>which methods are most viable for breaking the subtlest of these walls as described by Scholem
Hypnotic regression therapy.
Or Parts Therapy.
>>943335
>Hypnotic regression therapy.
I could possibly agree with this. I'd need more time on and with the material/other working it concurrently. It would need flavored (just a tiny pinch) but could be a thing.
Once I swing through the planets in June I'll type up a few pages of possible hypnotic notes on DB.
>>943357
>It would need flavored (just a tiny pinch) but could be a thing.
Absolutely. It's basically regressing to the moment where the shells manifest. It should actually work fine as a general mode of therapy on it's own right as well. A bit metaphorical, sure, but valid nonetheless.
>>941165
Fuggin self replicating mushroom cult
Gotta love it
>>943493
>93
http://scfh.ru/en/news/we-drank-soma-we-became-immortal-/
>>941975
>Yeah, and there's plenty of Apocrypha backing that position up if the Chalcedonian heretics would pull their heads out of their asses and look.
There's a pretty strong historical argument that Jesus was a created spirit. Paul comes first and without any indication that he thought Jesus had been an historical figure.
>>94366
Paul quotes Jesus in his letters as though he was quoting commonly shared scripture, it suggests to me that Paul didn't come first even if we've lost what he was quoting so his genuine letters are our earliest record.
I also have an aesthetic/symbolic attachment to zombie Jesus
>>943722
>Paul quotes Jesus in his letters as though he was quoting commonly shared scripture, it suggests to me that Paul didn't come first even if we've lost what he was quoting so his genuine letters are our earliest record.
That does not make historicity more likely, though.
>I also have an aesthetic/symbolic attachment to zombie Jesus
One of the pre-Christian stories upon wch Jesus was likely based has the archangel Michael descending, crucified by demons in a spiritual realm above the earth, resurrecting, and ascending to his former glory.
>>943291
Why would I share? The traps are there for a reason. Giving anything more than the warning I have already given is not beneficial to anyone. Through experience the process becomes clear. Clarity without experience only puts someone in a dangerous position. True knowledge of the work is what separates the few from the many.
What I have is not an alternate explanation, it is not my own personal wisdom. What I am telling you has been a known part of the work, that only becomes clear once the trial has been passed and you recognize it.
>In terms of like, you don't go anywhere? Or that the processes implied in the metaphor don't actually happen at all?
I am all that has been and is and shall be; and no mortal has ever lifted my veil.
>>944311
I ask again why you imply David Chaim Smith has no "experience" with Kabbalistic mysticism. Have you looked at his artwork? Have you ever talked to him about Kabbalistic concepts? His largest caveat when speaking with me about a large number of things is "My perspective comes from interacting with the concepts in contemplation, not just reading about them."
Dude's spent more devotional hours than anyone in the West I can think of alive ATM; I'm not sure why you're angling so hard to discredit this.
>Why would I share?
To, I dunno, show you're willing to participate in discussion. Thanks for the warning, though.
>>944341
>has no "experience" with Kabbalistic mysticism.
Nope, not what I am saying.
>Have you looked at his artwork?
Yes.
>Have you ever talked to him about Kabbalistic concepts?
We just had a conversation through that excerpt.
> My perspective comes from interacting with the concepts in contemplation, not just reading about them.
>contemplation
That explains his limitations. I agree with him that just reading about them does not do much.
>To, I dunno, show you're willing to participate in discussion. Thanks for the warning, though.
I am participating in discussion right now. I am just a traditionalist unwilling to break his silence in front of the adepts for no reason.
>>944341
If by devotional hours you include meditation then shiggidity diggity doo da my guy can beat up ur guy
>>943047
>How dare I have an above average knowledge of this one aspect of magic I am overly familiar with!
Except you're an anon who we know nothing about
Before contrarian nigger interjected I was going to voice my qualms with that DCS passage but also similarities I see with authorities I respect. This back and forth nitpicking doesn't seem interesting or productive to me.
My qualm was more or less what I already told Thoth: the use of metaphor isn't precise enough. It leads to the perception contrarianigger had that DCS didn't even know what he was talking about by the end of it.
In fact I have no idea if DCS is qualified or worth listening to but I'll keep giving him the benefit of the doubt for awhile.
>>944592
At the time of me posting this, it has been a bit over two months ago that my fire kasina retreat ended. In that time I have thought a lot about what happened during it and afterwards, and thought it might be helpful to write something about that.
First, regarding the retreat itself, I just finished editing down the audio diaries that I recorded during it, and even for me, who was there, it seems mostly like some strange dream, like I am listening to the reports of someone that I know and whose memories I have but that seems extremely remote from my current life in some ways.
Listening to these audio diary entries, I got a somewhat more positive impression of the retreat than my current memory would have come up with today. I am not sure if this is because we remember pain and frustration better than we remember pleasure and success, or if my reports are in some ways skewed towards the positive for whatever reason, or if possibly both of these plus possibly other factors have come into play.
It is not that I wish to imply that the reports are inaccurate, as I remember everything that is reported and it seems accurate, and yet there is something that from this vantage point that seems somewhat alien, foreign, unreal, and unbelievable about it despite the fact that it was me that reported it.
It is not that I have any memories that contradict any of the particulars reported, nothing like that. However, it is amazing how we re-adapt to various reality-tunnels, re-optimize our brain and paradigms to specific situations, and my current situation of emergency department work and family life is so remarkably different from that retreat that some part of brain seems to rebel against that having actually been a reality.
>>944653
On that theme, but extrapolating it to other people who might listen to those reports, it seems to me that it would be easy for someone who wasn’t me, wasn’t there, and wasn’t rather familiar with something like doing a kasina and powers retreat (which already means nearly everybody) to come to conclusions that not only mirrored my own strange sense of unreality and divergence from current reality, but extrapolated that out into the logical extremes of deception, exaggeration and possibly even temporary insanity. I say temporary, because I can assure you that my current reality is most sane, with work going well so far as I can tell and family life about the same as it was before. I feel normal at this time.
However, this wasn’t the case when I first returned from my retreat. I was lucky enough to have a few days of readjustment to my typical life of emails, house chores, and ordinary entertainment and activities before returning to work, but, I am sorry to say, those few days were not really enough.
During those two weeks on retreat, it seems that I was able to substantially rewire my brain to a degree of sensitivity that allowed the occurrence of those experiences described in the audio diary. It was a degree of sensitivity, however, that was not particularly pleasant when I returned to work in the emergency department. It wasn’t that I didn’t enjoy getting back to patient care, as I did, nor was it that I particularly didn’t want to get back to work in general, as that was ok, but there were bodily effects that I simply hadn’t counted upon.
>>944660
Were I prone to hypochondriasis, which I am not, I might have imagined that I had some mysterious illness. Were I prone to paranoia, which I also am not, I could easily imagine thinking that I was being poisoned. However, neither of those was the case, as the feeling would vanish within an hour of getting home and didn’t appear on days that I had off, so it was clearly some strange product of working in a very high-intensity and stressful environment after re-optimizing the brain for a situation that was on the far end of the stimulation spectrum from an emergency department. Thus, my take home point for you, dear reader, is that, if you should do something like the retreat we did in anything like the doses we did it in, and, should you have a job that is anything like mine, give yourself plenty of time to readjust before going back to work or be prepared to pull out your best professional acting skills and happy face to get through it.
Speaking of happy, I am happy to report that the effect only lasted about 3 weeks, fading slowly as that time went on, which is much longer than I would have thought it could have persisted, as that is longer than the retreat was itself, and I have spent years optimizing my brain to be able to handle what happens in an emergency department. Now I feel well, my shifts are normal and produce no strange physical feelings, and all seems ok. That said, it was a very strange and annoying three weeks.
>>944663
You will notice in the audio that effects and paradigms are described that are likely to diverge pretty widely from most people’s ordinary experience, which was the expressed goal of the retreat, that being to have experiences that differed widely from our own experiences. In that regard, the retreat was very successful. However, should you find yourself with the sort of paradigm that looks on those experiences in some negative light, as fanciful, delusional, hallucinatory, insane, dangerous, unholy, ridiculous, or some other similar light, then perhaps take a step back and consider that the three people who went on that retreat and had very similar experiences were a practicing board certified physician and two successful IT programmers, all of whom are in stable relationships and are contributing members of their respective communities and who, after the retreat, went back to doing good in the world and supporting their families.
>>944667
Consider also that the techniques we used were ancient and respectable ones from standard texts in one of the oldest and most respected medititive traditions in the world and we were largely following standard instructions and having the expected effects. Such things can seem very strange, as few bother to follow the standard ancient instructions in high-dose and those who do rarely report what happened except in private to close meditator friends, for reasons that are likely clear to you if you have listened to the audio. Still, hopefully you will also be struck by the remarkable nature of what we report happening, the amazing time it was for us, and consider that there may be value in this that you might not have initially imagined, despite its violation of any core paradigmatic principles you hold dear.
For those that had reactions on the opposite end of things, that end that might idolize us or consider us amazing or whatever, also realize that, were you to follow similar practices in similar doses, it is very likely that you would also have many of the same experiences that we did, though it is true that everyone present was a solid meditator before they went on that retreat.
Be well, practice well, and may you learn something useful from this website,
Daniel
>>944671
Posted because it's about actual first-hand practice, and includes 'powers'-y experiences
http://firekasina.org/2015/02/17/retreat-summary/
>back to /his/
how?!
anyway i wanted approach magic and paganism, possibly of the not LERPing kind.
i would be ok with norse or egyptian god, but since i am italian it would be cool to hear something about Roman gods and possibly join a cult of them.
Do they have anything to do with magic? would you say that they are less "spiritual" than other cults?Why do we rarely hear about them in magic/occultism/paganism threads?
ITT: Satanism
>>944740
I would say, from my limited knowledge, that the spirituality is elsewhere, but universal enough for it to work. They are definitely a great model for ammoral archetypes of human behavior and talent to simultaneously draw from for inspiration and avoid to escape a sort of memetic autism.
This is entirely opinions, but the majority of classical gods don't apply to this world we live in. We as individuals often want to belong to a greater system, but what is most beneficial is what truly realates to ourselves as the individual. Larp as yourself as what you are, as how you are Italian, as how you relate to that, as how you see the world, as how you know yourself. Obviously do your research and learn all you can about understanding yourself and the world, but we're talking about you and your own aesthetic here. It's up to you for you to find what memes you want to drive and controlas opposed to to the memes you want controlling you.
>>941687
>Classic christian criticism is that the gnostics despised the body and the material world
And could therefore do anything they wanted with their bodies, including raping babies, because the material doesn't matter.
>>944876
>It's up to you for you to find what memes you want to drive and controlas opposed to to the memes you want controlling you.
t-thanks anon. i'll look up roman gods in encyclopediadramatica.
>>944533
>He's wrong, just trust me guise, the shitpost.
The Roman cult is a touch fucyky; if I were to do reconstructions of anything at all, it'd be late kinds of Greek material. At that point you can more or less swap godnames.
>>944754
Nope.
>>944883
Could you point to evidence internal to Gnosticism that there was child rape occurring?
>>944913
You could start with veneration of genii?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology)
>>945829
Yes.
This thread is literally Satanism/Luciferianism.
Doing the same thing the Babylonians did, and the various occult societies.
>>945867
Interesting you're the first person to bring up Satan/Lucifer in this thread on obscure Christian sects.
Care to show me where and how the Babylonians were attempting to replicate Christimind?
Any hard academic sources for Gnosticism's origins in "Satanism" and "Babylonians"?
>>945867
What i dislike the most about religion-posters on /his/ is not the fact that they talk about things i don't like, I just really dislike the way religion-posters enter a thread to insult whatever belief is being discussed.
Personally I don't believe in what's being discussed here, but i find it fascinating and am interested in finding out more about the movements and societies built around these beliefs.
You are barging in here for the sole purpose of declaring that you are a christian and that these beliefs are not christian. I can see that, thanks. I have eyes. Now fuck off.
>>945937
It's obvious. The test for an evil spirit is to ask if Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh. The gnostic says no. The demon says no. Same spirit; the spirit of antichrist.
You were Frater K on /x/, and you should really go back there. This is not the board for you.
That you cannot tell that the Father, Nimrod, and his wife Semiramis, the Queen of Heaven, with their raised from the dead son, Tammuz, are a counterfeit gospel is rather telling. It's what happens when you believe the father of lies.
>>945829
>Could you point to evidence internal to Gnosticism that there was child rape occurring?
You should know your own works.
The Gospel of Eve is known only from one or two short quotations from the great heretic-hunter Epiphanius (310/20 - 402), bishop of Salamis. He tells us that it was used by certain Gnostic sects with lurid and bizarre beliefs and sexual practices.
>>946055
I'll put some comparisons I see as I read it.
For example, I sent another Shinzen vid he recorded in '87, and he almost said this exact quote from DCS
>The difficulty is in understanding that En Sof shines forth without ever leaving itself. Since Kabbalistic metaphors rely on unexplained emanation imagery, a serious reexamination is needed. The hishtalshelut (chain of worlds) is presented as a ladder with a linear top and bottom; but this should never be accepted literally. Various models calibrate it differently. Some early schools articulate the sefirot within concentric circles (or 3-D shapes). Later schools offer the concentric model in exchange with the common lineal model. This was meant to offset the problem of directionality, which human beings impute by virtue of habit. However, all of these symbolic models remain imprisoned within the collective habit field until they are recognized as virtues of the mind's essential nature. Until that point, the symbolism will remain mere psychospiritual conjecture.
>>946070
>Some early schools articulate the sefirot within concentric circles (or 3-D shapes).
>>946078
Yes. Shinzen said basically that the static nature of the ToL is misleading since it's a dynamic, ongoing process that's happening continuously. He even mentioned the concentric circle model.
Watch the vid
>>946098
It's true, tho.
DCS takes the "no structure" model to demonstrate the nonconcreteness in practice. I've also heard him reference the 3D object model in that people phenomenally experience different sephira as you "turn" the "object" and are confronted with those faces most directly.
Am listening m8.
>>946098
>>946114
>the two flows merge and into an interacting wave, between contraction and expansion, and die away, in that nothingness is the One.
Yes.
>habitual abidement in the cycle of zero-polarization over and over.
Yes.
>regeneration of Self and World, and understanding their origin of arising.
Yes.
I'm still figuring out how to regularly ignite the cycle, let alone sustain it. As I repeatedly disclaim: I'm not an Adept (yet).
>>946142
I can say that I commonly experience the first sense of nondual he uses, that I sometimes experience the second sense he uses (though incompletely), and that I've only had glimpses of the third.
My question would be, is DCS pointing to the same experience as the third?
Also, where can I read about his background?
>>946158
I'd say I'm in your boat. The first one is common enough to have a number of important reference experiences and it's very regular.
Point two is Srs Work. Point three is something I've only brushed the tips of my fingers against.
Yes, as should have been somewhat clear from the material I posted but I can't say, his material bleeds together. RE: Background I've mostly just gathered bits and pieces in passing and conversation.
He talks like he's some sort of lineage holder and if he told me in what exactly I've long forgotten.
>>946187
It would seem that he should have a bio page somewhere.
Anyway, I was skimming through Mirror last night and saw a bit that struck me as being identical to a bit from the Heart Sutra
"Form is emptiness, emptiness is form
Emptiness is not separate from form, form is not separate from emptiness
Whatever is form is emptiness, whatever is emptiness is form."
Can't find the passage right now. It used the words being and nonbeing instead
>>946203
here it do
>>946203
I honestly feel we've gotten not this srs of an interface between hard East and West mysticism since like the BMAC/GBC.
Mirror isn't even a book that does heavy lifting, it's just basic analysis of Genesis.
>>946098
>Shinzen said basically that the static nature of the ToL is misleading since it's a dynamic, ongoing process that's happening continuously.
Well, yes. This is true of concepts like the Fall, too. It happened in the remote past, it will happen in the future, and is happening right now.
The ToL is also a living thing, since it also represents a Cosmic Conga Line of adepts.
>>946228
I'm just supposed to know what these fucked up acronyms mean?
I'm really waiting for the time when adepts will get together and hash this out. I know Shinzen would be willing.
http://traffic.libsyn.com/wuelf2000/Thelema_Now_David_Chaim_Smith_I.mp3
>>946216
https://fulgur.co.uk/artists-and-writers/david-chaim-smith/
His homepage appears to be down/moved. I know from some conversations and photos he's spent a touch of time in Mexico doing god-knows-what and some time overseas. I'm not sure which hermitage this page references, as iirc he'd mentioned a few, including his own personal cabin in the woods.
>>946245
http://media.libsyn.com/media/wuelf2000/Thelema_Now_David_Chaim_Smith_Part_II.mp3
Here's part two of what I linked.
And here's an interview behind a paywall
http://occultofpersonality.net/beyond-conventionality-with-david-chaim-smith/
Listening to make sure he isn't a faggot
>>946241
BMAC = Bactrian Margiana Archaeological Complex?
>>946245
Topkek this has got to go in your mega
https://what.cd/torrents.php?id=72844345
>>946241
DCS seems to have made the Baltimore lodge of the OTO buttmad...regretfully I'd recommended the body to him; guess they had a bad crowd that night - he'd implied that AC is weird and can only get you partially where he's going and that Golden Dawn's Kabbalah is overcomplex trash (~t. golden dawn initiate) and they just wouldn't interface with the idea.
>>946264
I've heard the Thelemanow podcasts...think I have a Gunther podcast laying around I've not posted. IIRC he/the interviewer doesn't get super technical.
>>946271
>With John Zorn
I think I'm starting to understand why this guy agitates Bill Breeze so much.
>>946286
I'm gonna dl the FLAC. U want?
>>940755
Magic isn't real, you sperglord.
>>946290
Aye sure, just link my shit up.
>>946305
Upping.
Got any more DCS interviews or talks?
>>945983
But this thread is nothing but religion posting.
>>946382
>https://mega.nz/#!qg4TnLLK!0rJtoXvTGYMiXpIcRWfOFWvJuFR3NEojFbK12kyd-IU
Got it.
>tfw transcribing the conjurations of the 16 Mothers and Father of Wytchblood.
>>946414
When I was about 12 years old, I found a copy of Timothy Leary’s Politics of Ecstasy and that was, for lack of a better term, my spiritual path as a teenager. I digested all the Carlos Castaneda books and all the literature that was around surrounding the subject at that time. My use of LSD was extremely extensive—several times a week, for several years. And I also managed to get into some fairly extreme and esoteric psychedelics, such as DMT. I dropped out of high school in ninth grade to pursue this [laughs] this path, and it was always inseparable from my pursuit of visual art. At the time I was doing drawings which were conveying or reflecting my inner exploration through psychedelics. I was put into a program where one could come and go, it was sort of early alternative education where nobody really learned much of anything and nobody was minding the store, so to speak. I was allowed to roam free, in inner space. I had more time to draw than anybody who went to a regular high school, so I developed quite a nice portfolio and I got into the Rhode Island School of Design. I got my BFA there, and eventually got an MFA from Columbia, here in New York.
>>946600
Starting in the mid-’80s, I became addicted to cocaine. Eventually I was freebase smoking it to the point that it dominated my life. I was about as severe a cocaine addict can be, and developed cocaine psychosis. I started using heroin, as an adjunct, to come down off off three and four-day cocaine binges. Because of the way that I’m wired, I’m not looking for any type of euphoric depressant, I’m only looking to hike my nervous system up to the point where it blasts through the roof. I had two heart attacks, and almost died, but luckily…I was young. In 1987 I quit hard drugs completely and never relapsed. Then I spent two years smoking an incredibly large amount of marijuana. Without it, I think I would’ve ended up in a mental institution. In 1990 I stopped smoking marijuana entirely and never took a hit off of a joint ever again. I got a job at a methadone clinic in the South Bronx, where I worked for three years. I was fascinated by the process of addiction, and I really wanted to know what it was that I had been doing with myself.
>>946603
THAT'S why he shitposts about addiction so hard.
We've come to a number of impasses on our discussions of drugs before.
BTW, I found an awesome adrafinil thing called "Razor's Edge" with adra, CDP choline, and phenylpiracetam.
I know I am the official shitposter of this thread because you guys dont understand the mysteries and the symbolism of fire, but the Jesusposter would be really upset if he knew how much weird sexual shit is in the old testament.
Also, the lentil dish with sperm is a reference to Set. Why would early church fathers care about this? Set was blamed in the Egyptian texts for the plagues that the Hebrew God was responsible for in Exodus. There is a reason for this, but only a conscious reader of Exodus will know.
>>946638
I know what's in the bible, and it's not upsetting to me at all. This /x/ thread needs to be moved back to /x/.
>>946638
Could also be a reference to Tantra, desu, if we give ANY sort of credence to DCS's speculations about contact between India and the Levant, particularly in and around that time.
I'd be more engaged with a Setian transmission if it were a lettuce/sperm alone dish ;)
>>946637
>king to hike my nervous system up to the point where it blasts through the roof. I had two heart attacks, and almost died, but luckily…I was young. In 1987 I quit hard drugs completely and never relapsed. Then I spent two years smoking an incredibly large amount of marijuana. Without it, I think I would’ve ended up in a mental institution. In 1990 I stopped smoking marijuana entirely and never took a hit off of a joint ever again. I got a job at a methadone clinic in the South Bronx, where I worked for three years. I was fascinated by the process of addiction, and I really wanted to know what it was that I had been doing with myself.
You've actually talked with the dude? That would be why you responded the way you did. I am willing to give it more discussion on this account if you want to ask me general questions without suggesting I think something ridiculous.
>>946648
Gripe at the mods for including religion in the sticky, not at me for talking about it here.
>>946670
DCS sounds like a well-grounded guy. I've listened to some of that interview plus
http://arthurmag.com/2013/10/13/ecstatic-upheaval-a-conversation-with-artist-david-chaim-smith-from-arthur-no-34/
I like his emphasis on practice. Will await his book earnestly
>>946670
This isn't religion.
>>946637
Also, just mix that brew up yourself you cuck
>>946652
>if we give ANY sort of credence to DCS's speculations about contact between India and the Levant, particularly in and around that time.
It isn't really speculation, just like my Mandaean Manichean being Egyptian thing is not speculation. Longinus talks about the methods of the disciples of Thoth, and mentions his three "disciples" ( same situation as the Jesus thing) Herma, and Manu. I don't remember the third name ; )
>I'd be more engaged with a Setian transmission if it were a lettuce/sperm alone dish ;)
Well, for one, look into it more. What kind of God was Set, how did the Egyptians feel about menstruation? Secondly, Oh hush, pre-Rome religious folks dont want to talk about menstrual blood, it is icky.
>>946684
>gnosticism and kabbalah isn't religion
Like very university department publishing the books in my OP disagree.
>>946653
Y'know, I agreed with a few of your points, probably more often at face value than I agree with this memeposting sperglord >>946682, but until you talk to us like we're equals you can shove it up your dickhole.
>>946687
Wasn't as good, I have a vague suspicion it's spiked with some sort of RC. I was getting benzadrine style visual disturbances on rather light dosing.
>>946710
So you admit all the bullshit you believe in is superstitious nonsense?
Why not grow up, then?
>>946706
>how did the Egyptians feel about menstruation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hqhiQ9znZc
>>946725
In this DCS interview he conceded he doesn't know radical nonduality but that he's just a guy fascinated with it
>:|
This cuck better have become an Ipsisismismismi in the 6 years past or me and Shinnie are gonna cuck him
>>946743
"I quickly found out I'm not really a very good writer of elegant, concise sentences. Y'know, I make a mess!'
DCS on Mirror.
Yeah, I noticed
>>946743
He's come a long damn way.
Also, do YOU know radical nonduality in the sense of being there all day every day?
He's a neet now and can barely spend as much time in contemplation as he does.
If it's this hard for NEETfags like Buddha, Crowley, DCS, and Chumbley, imagine how hard it's going to be for us, m8.
>>946761
No I already said I didn't. But, I'd sooner learn from people who aren't sheepish about claiming attainments.
Tfw not NEET mystic. Why live?
Also, how does he support his neethood
>>946771
He's less sheepish in private about specific questions.
In any case, I'm oddly the opposite; I like those reluctant to claim.
He found a rich wife.
>>946710
That is the thing, we're not equals on this territory, my main focuses are Alchemy and Ancient Greece, Christian Mysticism( Goes hand in hand with Alchemy, I used that focus to write a thesis on precisely what we are talking about, and how it impacted modernity, in particular the puritans, the french revolution( hearkening back to your reference to the Bavarians), and the Nazis.
Until you treat me with the respect(lol 4chan anon, I know) that a master on the topic deserves, and I know that I can tell you something without receiving arguments instead of questions, I'm not going to tell you shit for risk of it hurting both you and the truth. The arguments I brought against DCS are not a negative statement on his ability overall, just in this one area. They are flaws I have noticed in major figures within Philosophy and Political science time and time again. I am rooted in a tradition that focuses on this segment of the occult, and I have mastered it. This is their opinion just as much as it is mine.
It is only after I can get you to understand the basic premise, what the symbol itself is and means as experience, that I can actually produce the libraries worth of evidence that demonstrates what I am trying to say.
>>946790
Ah. Alchemical gold-digger :^)
>In any case, I'm oddly the opposite; I like those reluctant to claim.
Why? I look up to people who claim to have some superlative attainments but acknowledge that there may be more or that it's endless etc
>>946800
Suck my dick as King Thelemite if we're gonna play that game.
Gulp down some elixir if you want returned respect as Master. Shit's a two way street, jack.
>tradition
Which?
>>946808
^On your last two points I agree - It's but a single step between "I've attained" and "I'm World Teacher, bring me your genitals."
>>946831
>^On your last two points I agree - It's but a single step between "I've attained" and "I'm World Teacher, bring me your genitals."
True. But I do admire when they acknowledge that what they have attained is rare and difficult, but that with effort many people can do it. That's a measured pride I can get with
>>946831
>Suck my dick as King Thelemite if we're gonna play that game.
>Gulp down some elixir if you want returned respect as Master. Shit's a two way street, jack.
One day you'll know I'm looking out for you, and not down on you. I hope it will be because you survived, and not because you burned alive and it ripped you apart. Until then, keep your fire steady brother.
>>946842
>>>>>""""""""""attainted"""""""""
What did he mean by this?
>>946866
No.
Nonononono.
>>946885
You can't define what "attained" means?
Why even use it, then?
>>946866
>>946927
Then why waste time with all that occult junk, when I can just buy a brainwave transmitter?
>>946948
>>947059
Meme Adeptus
>>947067
In the rare lucid moments that you have between doing drugs and shitposting on 4chan... do you ever get the feeling that there's more to life than what you're doing?
>>947067
Ipsmemeimus.
>>947076
Yes. Can you show me
>there is no other way out of this plane of existence other than obtaining the rainbody body or totally extinguishing yourself/your soul
>>947560
There are other ways, anon.
>>947568
Riding the peacock > Riding the tiger.
What's the deal with Kenneth Grant?
Would you guys agree that magic is bossing around supernatural forces and mysticism is submission to them?
>>945984
>This is not the board for you.
If Occultism & Magick belongs to /x/, then Christianity and other religions belong to /rel/.
Oh, wait - for some stupid reason, there's still no religious board on 4chan (yet we desperately need a containment board for them).
Until then, magic and religion can all be on History & Humanities, because... well, because they are all part of history and humanities.
>>946684
>This isn't religion.
I think Gnosticism is like Taoism - it has a religious, a philosophical and an esoteric / spiritual form.
You can follow it as a religion, you can study it as a philosophy, and you can practice it as an esoteric / spiritual path.
>>940755
What is your opinion about Jose M. Herrou Aragon's The Forbidden Religion (you can read it here: http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/gnostic-book.htm)?
This book is a guilty pleasure for me - I know it isn't an academic paper, nor a gospel; I know it sounds cheesy here and there, but still...
I read it many times and this is a form of esoteric Gnosticism I could / can follow.
It also has some interesting ideas about angels / demons, True Light / false light, etc.
So what do you think about it?
How far along the path is ego death usually considered to happen? How big is the difference when ego death is achieved through psychedelics rather than contemplation/meditation?
>>946849
Out of sheer curiosity, did you study Mesmer and his later (indirect) impact on our understanding of the mind?
>>948399
/his/ is already slow enough as it is with out taking the bigger part of the user base out of the board.
And also because religion is intricately tied to history it's logical that cross topic discussions should be allowed.
You athecucks are seriously annoying with your dream of having an insipid purely analytical board without any inference from the role beliefs play in shaping history.
ITT: Demon-worshippers, Baal-worshippers, fallen angel worshippers, Annunaki occultists
You're on the losing side of history OP.
Enjoy the lake.
>>948480
discussing historic beliefs =/= practicing these beliefs
>>948518
>said no anthropologist ever
>>948125
He's...a sad case in some respect.
The cheese slid off his cracker halfway through his magickal career. Not in an outlandish paranoid way but in the fantastical way.
Kenny writes a LOT of outlandish shit. But you'd be surprised at what he actually nails. He's primarily good for three things: 1) A firsthand account of the AC practices with at least a vague understanding of Tantra. He relates one of our most complete practices of AC's sexual magick mechanics. 2) Either he knew more about Africa than he let on in his texts, or guessed right. Listen to his rambling about Ophidian cults; that tree actually bears fruit. 3) Before he went sideways he was one of the few people to hash out some of the mechanics of a defense of the witch/cunning cult.
Other than that his gematria's particularly bad, is prone to fantasy, and really I'd ignore his last three to five books as delusion, with slow decline in quality..."Nightside" is the last place he goes "aliens in this book are a metaphor". "Outside the Circles" starts getting more incoherent....with Beyond the Mauve Zone & Ninth Arch being more or less expensive doorstops or b8 for le trashman.
>>946800
>Until you treat me with the respect(lol 4chan anon, I know) that a master on the topic deserves
Haven't laughed so hard in weeks.
Never saw a 'master' whine like a little bitch, before.
>>949021
Nice seeing you here. Have you made any headway with the thinking process about the Enochian book you wanted to write?
>>948226
>I think Gnosticism is like Taoism - it has a religious, a philosophical and an esoteric / spiritual form.
Somewhat true. Neither are monolithic and thus the variation.
>>948360
>How far along the path is ego death usually considered to happen?
>>948399
>Not a thing.
It is and it isn't. That part of the adept's personality that stood in the way of their work is destroyed while "crossing the Abyss"
>>948758
>The cheese slid off his cracker halfway through his magickal career.
Well put. The problem with books like, Outside the Circles of Time, is that, while fun, the world just isn't that cool.
I think he was wrong about the 11th, too.
>>949067
>That part of the adept's personality that stood in the way of their work is destroyed while "crossing the Abyss"
Well, yes, however that isn't ego as such. The ego is, as I understand it, that which allows for consciousness (self-abstraction, i.e. self-awareness).
>>949025
Unfortunately, no, I haven't, and for the moment at least it does not appear that it will be a meaningful part of my work, at least in the near future. It may fall out of my current work on Persian influences on Jewish mysticism as presented in Revelation.
My path took a.somewhat radical turn, recently, and I'm still in the process of getting my feet under me, again.
>>949074
>The ego is, as I understand it, that which allows for consciousness (self-abstraction, i.e. self-awareness).
Well, yes, point being that the ego that reforms is different in substantial ways. "Death", is probably a misleading word, but parts of what we normally think of as ego seem to go away or at least not be quite so troublesome.
ITT: the spirit of the Antichrist
>>949105
>"Death", is probably a misleading word, but parts of what we normally think of as ego seem to go away or at least not be quite so troublesome.
How about "rapid therapy through dissociation and re-association with more beneficial and efficient resources"?
Resources being parts of oneself, in this case.
I mean, death is change, and therapy is as such also death, to be free of things which limit us from doing all the things which we know we are capable of, but can't, do.
I am still rather strongly convinced that the Abyss is the amnesic barrier between conscious and unconscious, and if I am right, then there is a good chance that I have an excellent way of inducing massive change in a very, very quick way.
That said, it comes down to definitions. If someone can tell me exactly what is expected as the outcome of "crossing the Abyss", then I can make that happen.
>>949118
>I am still rather strongly convinced that the Abyss is the amnesic barrier between conscious and unconscious
Not sure that captures it.
>That said, it comes down to definitions. If someone can tell me exactly what is expected as the outcome of "crossing the Abyss", then I can make that happen.
I don't know that it may be adequately defned. My past attrmpts mostly suggest that I didn't really know.
I mean, what is enlightenment? Master Erwin Hessle, 8=3, defined it as a fundamental change in how you see yourself, your world, and the relationship between the two. That's true. It's also a diamond bullet, right between the eyes. It's also something wonderful. The Buddhas and sages did not lie. After it happens, though, it's nothing special.
>>948480
>the losing side of history
>>949118
The problem with any sort of definition is that the state is beyond description for the most part, as you already know. It's like an argument I had with a former friend about religious experience. I described it as a state one cannot immediately rationalize as anything other than itself, or possibly god. She immediately tipped her fedora and said she would rationalize it.
>>949180
>enlightenment
Then I'd take it that definition rests in and around Tifaret?
>>949197
>>948242
bump
>>949208
>I described it as a state one cannot immediately rationalize as anything other than itself
This is pretty good. Like, how do you know you're in love?
>>949236
I'm thinking in a Zen sense, the flash of lightening, that sort of thing. The knowledge of what you need to be doing with yourself could be a flash like that, I suppose. Zen lacks the quasi-religious symbolism.
>>949118
Look at it this way. /b/ is about as good an approximation of the Abyss as you'll find, especially back in the bad old days. It still spills onto other boards, like /x/. One who has crossed has Mr C on a leash. You could wade into the chaos, play with it, yet not be touched by it at all, neither drawn to it nor repelled by it.
Mr C is your ego. He's everybody elses ego, too. It's what accounts for so much of the stupid shit that happens all around us.
>>949180
>Master Erwin Hessle, 8=3, defined it as a fundamental change in how you see yourself, your world, and the relationship between the two.
That sounds like therapy on all accounts.
>>949208
>I described it as a state one cannot immediately rationalize as anything other than itself, or possibly god.
Accurate as fuck. Over time, however, it is entirely rationalizable, especially when put in different contexts.
>>949420
>Mr C is your ego. He's everybody elses ego, too. It's what accounts for so much of the stupid shit that happens all around us.
Are we talking Freudian Ego, or are we talking some other definition?
Cause if Freudian, then Crossing the Abyss is not something people can "attain" per sé, but rather it's something which happens to them by their circumstances in life.
This might be a long-shot, but I used to occasionally browse a blog full of occult(-ish) art, but I haven't been able to find it again. I think it was run by some woman who painted some of the stuff posted, as well as lots of older wood-carvings. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Interesting thread btw.
>>949667
>That sounds like therapy on all accounts.
Of course. Hessle was a strict materialist and, so far as anyone knew, had never caught a diamond bullet. He could have and was just bullying those who had not and dared talk about it. He was an asshole, after all.
>Cause if Freudian, then Crossing the Abyss is not something people can "attain" per sé
That's what BOTA believes, I think.
>>949969
>diamond bullet
Do you mind elaborating a bit on what you mean by this, and by what means you experienced this?
Because honestly, I don't really care about Crossing as much as that, if only for purely semantical reasons.
>>949908
Gimmie some references to the art and I'll see what I can do.
>>950303
From what I remember, other than the wooden block prints, there were a lot of red/black colours used, some goddess-themes iirc, kali stuff maybe? Bit far from christian gnostics but I figured maybe someone would know which blog I mean. Can't be THAT many occult art blogs, right?
Speaking of, you don't happen to have any blogs or websites with occult/gnostic/similarly themed art? I like the stuff you've posted in this thread, AoT.I'm too uneducated to follow all the gnostic discussions in this thread, but I can appreciate the aesthetics.
>>950209
I was looking in an old notebook for something and found some unexpected data. I couldn't stop laughing. I must have hit samadhi at least once, as reconstructing a timeline is fucky. I stood there wondering who I might ask about what had just hapened and was struck by the simple answer. There was no one. Who knew better than I?
And my whole world suddenly shifted. Looks like somewhat peranently. It's not that I have nothing more to learn. It's more that I've nothing further to seek. Nothing I learn is going to make me any more whole than I am right now.
>>950516
<This shit? The Helen whateverthefuckhernameis who helped create Chumbley's system?
>art only blogs
Nope, though you can get p. far hitting keywords into search engines. Oddly, not so much with Gnosticism in particular, but nonetheless.
>>950556
>Nothing I learn is going to make me any more whole than I am right now.
I might be somehow weird/ damaged/ have attained already, but that has been my permanent state since I can remember.
It's like a general state of contentment with everything that comes my way.
OR, I am misunderstanding.
>>950624
You're lucky.
That's the trouble with trying to describe the indescribable. There is no way I can describe what I experienced in such a way that you will fully understand. What is a sunset like or the ocean? It's like what it's like.
What I gained in an instant was a weirdly unshakable confidence in myself that I never really had before. I am what I am. I know what I know. I've done and experienced some amazing stuff.
I also competely ran out of fucks to give. There are only outcomes, desirable or undesirable.
>>950803
>You're lucky.
Or it's just a language barrier.
>What I gained in an instant was a weirdly unshakable confidence in myself that I never really had before. I am what I am. I know what I know. I've done and experienced some amazing stuff.
See, that's a bit different from my experience (which could be the same or different?). I just seem to have a deep, profound certainty that everything is always alright, regardless of what's happening.
>I also competely ran out of fucks to give. There are only outcomes, desirable or undesirable.
Everything is a gain/loss equation.
>>950570
Hm, the style looks somewhat familiar but google reverse image doesn't do much with that pic... I found it through a blog called Vama Marga years ago when their blogroll was larger.
I'll keep searching and thank you for trying to help
>>950910
>See, that's a bit different from my experience (which could be the same or different?)
And it all happened in a flash. It was all.of these things, these and other realizations, all at once and that still doesn't describe it.
Bump for safety
>>952431
Thanks friendo.
>>952507
bump?
>>940755
wat do u think about aghori and aghori sadhus?
>>953128
Good stuff; I prefer the Kaula.
The book Aghora in my Eastern folder contains a goodly chunk of their pujas, but is not complete by any means.
>mumbo jumbo druggie general
Back to /x/, faggots.
>>954407
Why can't I shake the feeling that almost all the posts complaining about these threads are actually coming from one guy?
>>954415
probably some dude upset that he actually has to read a fucking book to understand certain things
>>954415
i mean, they probably ARE from one guy
>>954415
After doing this for multiple years now on /x/ I can say we have a small crowd of a few dedicated FUNposters. One dude even followed us here to FUNpost.
In any case it's absolutely possible to have discussion around them.
How does one distinguish between what is true and what is not? How would I as an agnostic be able to tell a false religion from a true one, for it seems with most of them you have to die before you can actualy verify it.
>>954573
Find a religious practice, along with instructions and purported results, practice and record, consult with contemporary literature and ideally a guru.
It helps when you're looking at practices that aren't contemporary lukewarm Christism. Some Christian literature starts to get into detail about mindstates, or at bare minimum their structures, which is rather more specific than "confess=everlasting life"; I'd recommend Thunder: Perfect Mind to get an idea of how a Christian parses nondual apprehension.
>>954601
How do you view islam in comparison to Christianity?
Also I will be late to reply as it is very very late here
>>954344
Which Kaula?
>>954608
I don't give two wet shits about either. I've still not read the Qu'ran which at the bottom of my to do list and rather unlikely to budge from that position. Gnosticism writ large, apocryphal texts, and shit like the Beguine movement are about all that hold my attention in Christendom.
>>954618
As in Uttara Kaula Trika as elaborated by Abhinavagupta and as transmitted to the West by folks like Mahendranath and Curwen and Mark D. I have some Kaula contacts on the left coast.
>>954632
Best thing in your library related to that? Not an intro text preferably.
>>954665
My Saivism folder which has the Aghori materials as well. As far as I'm aware I'm assembling one of the only centralized digital libraries of this shit.
What you what is the Abhinavagupta folder, but start with Kularnava Tantra for an idea of the trajectory of the materials. I'll warn you now my Avalon copy is redacted to an extent. I think I've a Spanish version and there are copies in English that you can buy from India which are uncensored.
>>954632
>I have some Kaula contacts on the left coast.
Any around my area?
>>954755
>my area
W-wait, you're stateside?
>>954766
Nope. Europe of East. You have many contact, maybe here too.
>>954772
Oh, shit me, I thought you were implying you'd made it to Cali briefly or for some ungodly reason.
You already know my knowledge of what's-what drops off after the German border.
That said...while the url looks clickbaity, and the images are Westernized, this appears to at least know what it's on about.
http://abhicharamagichelp.ru/2015/12/mahakali/
Whether or not they have access to lineal mantras is a different story. Not that some of them can't be found in other sources...
>>954788
Alright. Thanks. I'll see what I can make of this.
>>954680
>censored
Wait what? Why?
>>954844
>Arthur Avalon aka Woodroffe was writing at a time when he had to dodge UK's obscenity laws
>>954844
>>954946
>>954680
Here's the edition on my bookshelf. Caution: The actual book construction is garbage, as expected of texts from India. Every goddamn thing I order from there is fucked up in some capacity; torn pages, off center print, cardboard covers, spine going the wrong way, pages uncut, etc., etc., etc.
http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/kularnava-tantra-IDI580/
>>954969
Yeah man me too, I've seen some terrible Indian prints. Having worked in a print shop, I don't understand how they can fuck books up so badly. What's inexcusable is that they let that garbage outside the printing place, when it should just be used in a yajna.
>>954983
At least they're in English, I can't gripe too hard. None of them are unreadable. All of them are disappointing.
>>955005
I had this one Bhagavad Gita by Sri Sri Sivananda (ayy lmao) that had the first two chapters entirely missing, and the first 100 pages of the book (excluding the introduction) were in the wrong order. Some pages were repeated, some where missing entirely. Basically made the first 1/3 of the book unusable.
I thought maybe the illuminati had gotten to it to corrupt its esoteric knowledge by taking the book apart and removing the key passages, and then rebinding the book. That would have been way more interesting than Pajeet and Ranjiv being shitty at making books (whodathunkit?)
>>955043
I think it's less Pajeet, Ranjiv, and Souphal being shitty than it is the way production's broke down over there. Texts meant for release to the public over there tend to be more careful and then it seems like they ship manufacture of anything meant to be exported to filthy Western extractionists like myself to some sweatshop in SE Asia that employs handicapped kids or some shit.
>>955065
Ah that makes sense, us being evil western piggus and whatnot.
Why is immortality never talked about here? If it's possible, then surely it's the single most important conceivable topic.
What is an angel of Sadness?
Any names/ clues?
>>955133
Nope. Truth is more important.
>>955139
Truth is Immortality. Immortality is Truth. Truth is Immortal. The Immortal is True. Thus it was said.
Truth is neither Immortality nor not-Immortality. Immortality is neither Truth nor not-Truth. Thus was it said.
>>955139
>truth
I didn't expect an atheistic hypnocuck to understand.
I want the truth too. If Yogis, Taoists, Alchemists, etc. all obsessed over immortality and dedicated their lives to its pursuit, then there might be something to it and I want to find out.
>>955284
People used to dedicate their lives to finding the end of the earth too.
They had an excuse.
If you're still looking for the point on the earth where all the water falls off into space in THE CURRENT YEAR, you don't have their excuse. You're just a delusional retard.
>>955284
>current year
>using stupid arguments
>in the CURRENT YEAR
>wew
>>955284
You're already immortal, it's just that your surface consciousness is not the sum total expression of your subconscious. Your essence, or "soul" exists within what could be called a space between spaces. Remember to think of time in terms of lego rather than a stopwatch or story.
>>956138
Fuck off with this hippy dippy dipshit, feel good nonsense. Your soul can die. Go jack off on your bagavad gita you delusional new ager fuck.
>>941903
Pray tell, why wouldn't I want seminarians mucking about with that stuff?
>>956278
>go read this ancient book you new ager!!!1
Spot the uneducated nigger-swine
Pleb here.
I'm so confused, whenever I ask what Gnosticism is I get told all this in-depth stuff which to my retard brain just doesn't register. Can someone tell me in layman's terms just what Gnosticism is?
>>956897
Basically, the Matrix. You're in a construct. This is good or bad, depending on the flavor of Gnosticism. The Matrix was a pessimistic Gnosticism.
The Messiah,.variously named, came to tell us that our real home is beyond all this. We are star stuff and we can go home.
>>956897
Sure: In layman's terms Gnosticism is a label applied broadly to largely dissimilar early Christian sects.
It -generally speaking- attempts to discredit the OT God and advocates any number of the "heresies" which were "refuted" by early Church councils.
