Is someone else here studying/interested in it?
I'm the middle of studying it actually (casually studying it I should add). My main focus at the moment is the Cuban Revolution. I'm reading a book on modern revolutions, and one thing that is sticking out to me is how prevalent communism and socialism is in unifying the revolutionaries, and to be quite honest, I really don't understand what those words mean.
>>7569
I'm also studying Cuba, but my focus is in the XIX century revolutions.
Btw, IIRC the 1959 revolution wasn't initially communist/socialist, but meant to restore the old constitution,
Getting my Masters in it.
But I am Latin American, so yeah.
>>7515
Barely knowing shit about Latin America I'm going to guess the short version is:
>Kill Indians
>Get mistreated by colonial policy
>Overthrow colonial rule
>Fail to contest economically
>Fall into irrelevance
>Get exploited and manipulated by United States dominance in hemisphere
>Remain irrelevant exploited sphere of influence full of cartels and mestizos
How close am I?
>>8546
I am brazilian. You are quite close.
>>8431
What country?
>>8616
To be fair, Brazil is actually the only one that somewhat deviates from that.
>>8546
pretty much, but It's way more complicated than that tbqhwu. There are plenty of madmen, bastards and doomed idealists to make things interesting along the way. The chaos that defines Latin America is a fertile breeding ground for eccentrics and bizarre events which blur the line between magical realism and black farce.
>>8935
Or were you asking about what country my thesis is? Because I am writing about Bolivar. Extremelly saturated subject, sure, but my uni teacher had a PhD about it and I jumped on the chance to get orientation once he offered.
Venezuelan here
Our current situation is just many circumstances happening in the past and wherther we had Chavez or not it was going to be this way.
>>8546
americans still want our oil after all these years
>>9573
>Our current situation is just many circumstances happening in the past and wherther we had Chavez or not it was going to be this way.
Nah mate, if history teaches anything is that shit could always be worse.
>>7515
too whiny and depressing tbqh familia.
>tfw Artigas was backstabbed by the Argentinians and exiled to Paraguay
What it could have been...
>>9669
call me a deluded commie shithead but Venezuela under Chavez's rule was actually a fucking heaven for the majority of the population, unlike nowadays. CIA is still searching for a way to fuck us over to keep the oil, but the Chinese are not better at all.
>tfw England made Brazil and Argentina give up claims on Uruguay
And so was born the gayest named country in the world.
Latin American history is a mess. Good luck if you really wish to pursue it.
>>9738
>What it could have been...
Honestly what sums up most of latin history to me.
Wall.
>>8546
Not exactly. They didn't kill indians as they did in Anglo American colonies. Indians basically became slaves in everything but name.
Also you forgot the rampant corruption. At every single level of our governments.
>>9811
From a country that had 20 years of its life stolen by the CIA, I fully understand what you mean anon.
>>9934
it is because of people like you that this board will not survive much.
Definitely interested in it and started with Meade's A History of Modern Latin America: 1800 to Present as my first read, which I've only just begun.
Any recommended reads for a person with no prior knowledge? I'm fine with reading dense stuff.
>>9811
>the US still considers Venezuela a "national security threat"
I'm pretty sure 90% of Americans wouldn't even be able to tell which Latin American country is Venezuela.
>>9427
>Bolivar
Oh boy. You know a region sucks when even its founding father gives up on it.
Then again, he was a racist white supremacist bastard terrified at the idea that mestizos would gain power, so he might not be the best judge.
>>10064
Read Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent by Eduardo Galeano
>>10127
Why would they bother intervening in a country to remove a regime that is bound to collapse on itself?
>>10134
>its founding father gives up on it.
bullshit
he was excecrated and betrayed by colombians.
learn your shit straight
>>7515
Why?
Latin America is fucking boring
>Banana republics everywhere
>Gommunists
>Right coup d'etats
>Left coup d'etats
>Almost no wars, specially south america
>Political inefficiency and corruption
>>10134
What? Nigga, Bolivar fought to the very end, his dream of an united South America will live on because of it.
>>10247
Well, they didn't in the andean countries. I guess they did different in the south cone.
>>10335
>his dream of an united South America will live on because of it
ebin meme
>>10335
> "America is ungovernable; those who served the revolution have plowed the sea"
By the time of his death, the Great Colombia was broken beyond repair. Guy died heartbroken.
Chilean here, on a related note, it's funny as fuck how they teach us history about mapuches and spaniards, a lot of people end up thinking spaniards were the good guys and mapuches were mean fuckfaces for not going down without a fight
>>10327
>Almost no wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisplatine_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platine_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Civil_Wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragamuffin_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific
>>10378
Just Uruguay did.
The rest of Latin America was trying to catechize the natives. Specially in the Portuguese territories.
>>10327
>almost no wars
Top kek.
>>10424
isn't it fucking sad?
>>10424
Doesn't mean he gave up on it.
>>10031
You could also just ignore it...
or have something historical to respond with...
polsters will get bored with this place as soon as they don't get any keks from it.
>>10335
>United South America
This isn't a thing
And I don't see this being a thing in the foreseeable future (around 50 years of so)
>Colombia and Venezuela dislike eachother
>Bolivia and Paraguay are so economically backwards that they would just drag anything they get in down, not to mention that Chile keked Bolivia out of the pacific ocean
>Uruguay is 420 SMOKE WEED ERRYDAY and don't cares about what goes around them
>Argentina got shit up to their necks, they are like a worse 1980 Brazil
>Brazil with its cyclical crisis and infinite politcal corruption and system bureacracy/corruption that will never ever get fixed
Chile is the only country in south america doing alright
>>10534
Why are Bolivia and Paraguay such shitholes?
>>10236
but they have a new official shoe!
>>10589
Filthy Aymara blood.
>>10589
Paraguay got raped so hard by Brazil(Argentina and Uruguay were there as well, but Brazil did most of the raping), their asses are still bleeding.
>>10589
Bolivia literally because Indians
Paraguay was nearly a powerhouse until the Paraguayan War Genocide brought upon by the Baring Brothers Bankers, Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay under Venancio Flores and his colorados
>>10589
i don't know about paraguay but Bolivia is pretty much still indian.
so don't expect much HDI or urbanizations or western culture in it.
Doesn't qualify for shithole though, it's like Mongolia or Kazakhstan
>>10327
>>Almost no wars, specially south america
uhhhhhhhh didn't they have one that fucked one coutry so bad they are still recovering their lost population?
Can't remember the name though.
>>10695
Paraguay war.
>>8616
Brasil is probably the one that least has to do with that, dude.
>>7515
Argie here.
We had some cool natives like the 1.80cm tall Selk'Nam and the beasts that were the Querandi.
Unfortunately we sort of... uh, put them to sleep. And very little of their culture and mythology remains. Ethnically they might as well be extinct.
>>8546
You forgot
>be liberated by a bunch of masons led by a nutcase
>have a small economic bubble when the yurops are busy killing each other
And in my countries case
>accidentally all our natives
>>10534
>Chile is the only country in south america doing alright
If you fail to manage a single strip of land you're hopeless
I'm interested in the colonization of Mesoamerica, I think what interests me the most is how both conquistadors and natives perceived one another over the course of it, starting with the very first contact.
I'm also interested in history of Chile.
I'd be very thankful if /his/ could recommend any good books on those topics I mentioned above.
>>9738
Fuck off, Cisplatina.
>>10797
Give back Rio Grande del Sur.
>>10815
Learn to write properly.
It is Rio Grande do Sul.
>>10815
Lmao you couldn't do anything for yourselves.
>muh utopia
Can't even defend your own territory lmao
>>10762
>how both conquistadors and natives perceived one another
i don't know any book names bro but in reality the indian "elites" sold the rest out.
many chiefs and kings allied with the spaniards and fought other tribes.
It was so popular in the new granada territory that spaniards almost never fought. it was the indians doing all the work
>>10699
>What about us (Ecuador)?
You started the civil war that collapsed the Inca Empire by the time the Spaniards came.
So... thanks?
>>10699
Ecuador and Peru are pretty quiet, tend to themselves don't stand out too much, can't really say
The only bad thing about Peru is those fucking immigrants.
>>10858
>Can't even defend your own territory lmao
In 'Uruguay's defense (it was called the Banda Oriental then and was only part of Artigas federation) we were fighting a two front war, on the one side against Buenos Aires, and THEN you faggots HAD to invade our fucking CLAY
>>10534
>new Constitution just because Pinochet did it
>garbage reforms and shit reforms
>strikes
>protests every week
>meme presidents
Chile is a good country just because our neighbors are worse, for now
>>10931
>it was called the Banda Oriental
You mean the Cisplatina province?
>>10901
I didn't mean the conflicts per se or rather, not just conflicts. I am interested in the first impressions they've had and what both sides felt when they've encountered those strange civilizations. I'm not sure about native sources, but I'd definitely like to read a history book sourced by journal of someone who has experienced it, if one was even made.
>>10931
>tfw uruguay fought to the finish
>tfw attacked by everyone
>tfw survived
>tfw still confuse uruguayans with argies
i'm sorry bro, i really don't mean to.
>>10958
Hey, at least I hear Chile got its shit not retarded regarding loli
>>10976
>cisplatina
You are still butt sore about Rincรณn, Sarandรญ and Ituzaingรณ, aren't you?
Guys, I don't want to spoil your fun, but isn't it getting a little too /pol/ or maybe /int/, as in politics and opinions rather than history discussion?
>>11051
To be fair, it is the only war that Brazil actually came close to lose, so yeah, a little bit.
By the way, do you guys consider it a "draw" as well? Or do you try to pass it as a win?
>>11108
It's literally /lat/ from /int/ but with more history to it.
It's fine to be honest, it's not really a political discussion but moreso just a historical one
>>11108
It is what you get you Latin Americans start to talk about Latin American history, it is just natural banter mate. We all hermanos here.
Maybe not Chileans, some of those guys are cunts.
>>11108
When you get Argentinian, Brazilian and Uruguayan folk talking history its obviously going to lead to banter
>>11163
Here we consider it a very close tie and a shameful one because Posomby completely disregarded our independence struggle and made us a rump state instead of joining us with Argentina or some shit like that.
Although, I suppose we should thank him? Cos Argentina is kinda shit?
idk; if Macri wins this next 22, I might regret the independence part
>>11108
You can't discuss latin america without politics, its the entire reason why they are shit
>>11108
Shut up. To talk about history you have to talk about race and geography. If you want to discuss the history of a region with such a rich diversity as South America, even more, Latin America, you have to talk about race.
We aren't actually discussing politics btw, that'd be the shit tier part of Latin American history going from 1895 onwards
>>11108
Wait for tomorrow when the Balkan countries wake up
>>10762
Matthew Restall - Seven Myths of the Spanish Conquest
Inga Clendinnen - Ambivalent Conquests: Maya and the Spaniard in Yucatan, 1517-1520
Miguel Leon-Portilla - The Broken Spears: The Aztec Account of the Conquest of Mexico
plus the accounts of Bernal Diaz, Bernardino de Sahagun. Eduardo Galeano's Genesis is a compilation of anecdotes from the conquest, it's entertaining but not authoritative history.
>>11225
>Maybe not Chileans, all of those guys are cunts.
Fixed. Remember the time they invaded their northern neighbors for saltpeter and bat shit, while burning down everything in their path?
>>11351
/his/ is going to be filled with hecks being given.
>>11351
Now talk about literal blood feuds...
What I never got was why the independent colonies never wanted to stick together.
I mean you all literally speak the same language (except Brasil but that one's a special snowflake).
>>11282
This
>>11458
Because the generals and some of the rich folk wanted their little fiefs and places and wouldn't share
That, and South America is just too big
>>11458
Because everyone wants to be a special little democracy.
The only Reason Brazil stuck together was because His Imperial Majesty Dom Pedro I fought tooth and nail against separatists bastards.
>>11522
Well they could've still become some sort of United States or something. That sort of thing happened in the USA too.
>>11458
Too many greedy spics
>>7515
Guatemalan here.
Seriously, fuck the commies. Also, if you admire Chรฉ Guevara and call yourself a pacifist, you're an absolute retard.
>>11554
Bolivar tried it, but some fuckers just didn't want to listen.
>>11554
You have to realize that the Independence Wars began with at least 2 major uprisings
When the moment came that Bolivar and San Martin met somewhere I forgot near Perรบ, they couldn't agree with each other, and everything went downhill from there
Literally...
>>11458
You may not believe it
But Brazil was badass in the 1800s, the Empire quelled a shitload of rebellions and separatist movements
The only exception is Uruguay
>>11458
And all Slavs can pretty much understand each other, so what. Look at any country, you'll see differences in cuisines, dialects or even cultures between regions in even the smallest of them.
>>9573
>We had Chavez or not
Except Chavez was the main reason this is happening. Now with Maduro it's worse.
If there wasn't a coup that removed Marco Perez Jimenez, we would have been ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCuG5xPmaAo
>>10589
Bolivia is full of Bolivianos/indians. At least Peru had a good amount of immigrants (particularly Japanese).
>>11458
Brasil stuck together because the emperors of Brasil, like Pedro I and Pedro II. If it wasn't for them, it would have balkanized.
>>11458
Every single independence movement in Latin America was done by separatists that wanted power. Why would they gave away their power when they controlled the state and nation.
>>11624
Brazil was an Empire mate, so it was utmost importance to keep all territories.
>>11639
>near Perรบ
That would be Guayaquil in Ecuador. They even have a nice statue of Bolivar grabbing San Martin's ass.
>>7515
I don't give a fuck about beaners and spics.
>>11804
Yeah, that, sorry, Argentinian-Colombian history isn't my forte
>>11668
Slavs have thousands of years to set them apart. They were also part of different empires, namely the Croats in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and the Serbs in the Ottoman Empire iirc
>>11706
So? New Spain was an Empire too.
>>11642
Yes I know.
To bad for democracy, ey? Really fucked you guys in the bum.
>>11907
It was a Viceroyalty, and the Viceroys got... well, deposed pretty violently
Then the generals literally carved the whole place up between each other and so on
>>11949
I kinda get it now.
It seems that the care the portuguese had for their colony (it was a portuguese prince that gave them independence) was what meant unity in the end.
Treat something well enough and it'll produce good offspring.
>>11947
Democracy...was a mistake
>>11907
Wasn't really an empire, more of a viceroyalty type of deal.
And Mexico was an empire for what? 3 years.
Not the same as Brazil.
>>12006
It was also more centralized and stuff
The Portuguese even escaped to Brazil at some point during the Napoleonic wars and all
It was when they went back to Portugal that the Prince stayed behind and crowned himself Emperor of Brazil
>>10699
>>THEY HAVE NO BEACH
>THEY HAVE NO SEA
THIS INDIAN STATE
IS A MISERY
>>12098
>the king escaped to Brazil
Yes I know that, that's what I meant about the care they had for you.
Not much related, but I'm curious anyway so I'll ask: how were and are the relations between Brazil and Portugal?
>>12098
>The Portuguese even escaped to Brazil at some point during the Napoleonic wars and all
That is the funniest thing in all of Brazillian history.
No royal family in Europe had even set foot in colonies in the new world.
But the portuguese not only came to visit, but came to live here, all because Napolean was about to wreck some portuguese ass.
>>12166
>how were
Very chill, couple of skirmishes when Indepence hit, but no famous battles, the portuguese left comparatively peacefully compared to North america or spanish america
>how are
Very chill, we banter with each other and apart from euro pride the portuguese are just like us
>>12166
>how were and are the relations between Brazil and Portugal?
>were
Brazillians were exploited, Portuguese didn't gave a shit, just wanted that mad new world money.
>are
Pretty ok, we let our past behind.
>>10931
>our fucking CLAY
ahhhh most posted phrase on /his/
>>12213
Nah that makes perfect sense. What's funny is a Habsburg becoming Emperor of Mexico.
>>7515
I am really curious about America before Europeans came, anyone got some youtube links or other vids? Doesn't matter how long.
>>10711
>Genocide of paraguay
ftfy
>>12325
>It's like the British queen actually living in Canada.
Brazillian-Portuguese relations were NOTHING like Canadian-British relations anon.
Canada was "population" colony while Brazil was an exploitation colony.
I guess that is not even a distinction I could find in english texts about this.
But other Latin Americans will understand what I am talking about here.
>>12439
America is a huge huge continent (two actually), so you have to narrow it down a bit m8. Where in America? I mean that thing had hundreds of civilizations before European contact.
>>12439
>North America
Pocahontas and The last mohican
>Mexico
Apocalyso
>South America
Gonna have to dig some documentaries, very backwards apart from mayans
>>12493
Oh, cry me a river. Every single colony is an exploitation colony. There are no such things as "population colonies". Simply the Canadians got gud.
>>12496
Oh right, Pre-USA I guess and Aztec.
>>12528
>very backwards apart from mayans
wtf
mayans weren't even south american
and did you just forget the incans? and mato negro? fuck off
>>12542
>Pre-USA
There are a shit load of media portraying them
>Aztec
Just read about Cortez expedition
>>12567
>Incans
Thats right
I always mix that shit up
>mato negro
Never heard of them
>>12338
>>>/hist/
>MUH CLAY
Brief Argie history
>1806: Brits try to take Buenos Aires but fail
>This plus Spain's situation encouraged La Plata to declare independence in 1810, formally in 1816
>San Martin defeats spaniards in Argentina, then follows in Chile and Peru
>Civil war between Buenos Aires province and the rest until 1880
>Conservative presidents creat an oligarchy
>Bring European ideas that reflects in today's argentine eurobooism
>European inmigrants start coming in masses, specially Italians and Spaniards, until 1930s
>Economic prosperity, european tier life quality
>Conquest of eastern Patagonia exterminating all the amerinidans
>Oligarchy keeps strong until 1914 when the first democratic elections are celebrated
>1914-1930 UCR party governments
>Thing still great
>1929 global crisis fucks our export based economy
>The military makes a coup d'etat
>A guy from the government starts giving the low working classes economic favours
>This guy was Peron
>Elected president in 1946-1952
>Economy's fine at first but starts going downhill
>1952 another coup d'etat
From this point the country starts going downhill with a sucession of democratic governments and coup d'etats until 1983. The last one is the most infamous one (muh desaparecidos and Falklands)
>Democratic government again 1983
>The country is merely a shadow of what it was back in the early 1900s, completely fucked economy
>Neoliberal policies contribute to screw up more until the 2001 crisis
>Chaos until Kirchner's ascencion in 2003
>Things start to get not great, but better than before
>The country grows until 2007
>Economy's stuck until now
And that's how you fuck up a country. We might be good compared to other latino countries but we're still shit, even worse when you realize Argentina was europa tier in early 1900s.
>>11674
>If there wasn't a coup that removed Marco Perez Jimenez, we would have been ok.
ยด
this is the most retarded thing someone said ever.
i love how you qualify chavez as dictator but want perez jimenez back
fucking sifrino scum. i wont lose my time arguing with people like you desu. it's like a parrot.
repeating something over and over again..
>>10725
>Selk'Nam
the las one died in my lifetime, don't know when
>>12781
Marco Perez Jimenez didn't ruin the country like Chavez/Maduro have.
>>13597
What even is the point of maduro?
Was le helicopter man a good guy?
>>12537
The term is "settler colony" in english and it's a real distinction. There's a reason the US wound up richer per capita than Barbados.
>>7515
Taking a class on colonial times. Luckily I have a professor who deals with race and religion in the class in an evenhanded way.
>>8546
While this did happen a lot, I'd be bold enough to say that most was indirect via overworking and disease epidemics.
Spain wanted Indians to convert to Catholicism, to get them luxury goods, and to function as part of the military in the war against the Muslims.
Honduran here. Ask me anything you want to know?
>>8546
>Kill Indians
Yes. And those who survived were turned into slaves.
>Get mistreated by colonial policy
Not really, but I'm talking about the Spanish empire. The places that prospered because of the Crown's policies were the first to raise against it.
>>15953
What do your countrymen think of Salvadorians?
>>16071
If it's because of the 1969 war, relations weren't really tarnished after the war. The average honduran does not care (or does not know) about the war, nor does he hate salvadorans.
There's actually quite a lot of "propaganda" (if I may call it like that), that says that all of Central America SHOULD be united; there's almost a sense of brotherhood that hondurans have with the rest of Central Americans. I don't know if it's the same case for the rest.
>>12769
>1806: Brits try to take Buenos Aires but fail
Seriously?
How come Argie shitposters never bring this up when talking about Malvinas?
Has anyone read "The True History of the Conquest of Mexico" it was written by Bernal Diaz del Castillo who was one of the soldiers under Hernan Cortez in his campaign. I got started but didn't finish due to life.
>>7515
Studying Dominican History now.
I can't stop crying. All those wasted opportunities.
>>20339
What kind of wasted oppurtunities?
>>20459
The North of the country avoided many of the problems that traditionally plagued Latin American countries; they had a diversified economy dominated by small holders and educated merchants.
But the South, dominated by ranching barons, used policies to fuck over the north like messing around with currency and refusing to establish a national bank.
Then there's the impossibility of having stable government up until the Trujillo Era. Leaders who marched into the capital were content with exiling their enemies, leaving them to return with mercenary armies and continue the civil war a few years later. Other leaders would have just killed them and cemented control
And of course, the insane amount of isolationism.
It could have been the Prussia of the Caribbean, dominating Central America and punching way above its weight, but it didn't happen.
