How did it all start, /his/?
Shamanism.
>>748980
So a bunch of cavemen getting high on berries?
>>748973
animism
>>748973
God walking with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
>>748990
So a bunch of cavemen getting scared of a mammoth?
>>748994
Yeah, Islam is the original religion of man yadda yadda yadda...
![cave-art--mammoth-and-ibexes-granger[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5w6fmqW.jpg "cave-art--mammoth-and-ibexes-granger[1].jpg")
>>748997
Literally
>>748973
By magic.
And by magic, the academic definition of magic
>the use of rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language with the aim of exploiting supernatural forces.
Basically men trying to make sense of shit they couldnt understand.
Furthermore this is why things that they fully know (i.e. how to sew clothes, make weapons, etc) was """"science""" so to speak while shit that has a high chance of going south gets the magical treatment (i.e. hunting, war, childbirth, death).
>>748973
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcPm-MQiCQ8
Seriously now.
Religion as it is is an entirely different beast t what they had back when humans first became humans as we know them.
>>749001
What are you babbling about? Islam came about 4600 years later and has nothing to do with God, Adam, or Eve.
>>748973
Hope.
Our tribesmen died and we started hoping for something better for them.
Near life experiences and under misunderstandings about nature may have added to that.
>>749033
>has nothing to do with God, Adam, or Eve.
Anon, you do know they worship the same God christians do, right?
There are people who actually like Horsey? I just can't find anyone who would enjoy such a shill.
>>749063
I know with perfect wisdom that they do not.
>>749079
Yeah. Christians are polytheists. Muslims worship the same god as the Jews.
>>749079
They worship exactly the same God Jews do and only say that the whole Holy Trinity is BS and that Christians are unknowingly making it more complicated than it is.
Abraham, Adam and Eve, Jesus, etc. They are an extension of Christianinty in the same way Christianity extends Judaism by saying some stuff is deprecated and that there's new rules to go by (New Testament/Quoran).
>>749087
Your statement is ludicrous on its face. "The god of the Arabs is the God of the Jews."
Can you even find one Jew that believes that is true?
>>749087
>What is the Trinity, the post. From a muslim who says he worships the God of the Jews.
>>749090
Yes, this is what muslims think, because they worship the father of lies, and do nothing but lie. Al-lah is not YHWH.
Al-lah is Hubal, the god of Mohammad's father, aka HaBaal, aka the Ba'al of the Moabites.
Hubal never left the kaaba. he's still there. they still worship the meteorite that comprised his idol's head.
>>748973
Read some Eliade. Especially his concepts of hierophany and terror of history are useful in understanding this.
>>749049
>Hope
>Our tribesmen died and we started hoping for something better for them.
Plenty of ancient religions didn't have an afterlife. Either they didn't have one at all, or it was a deal so shitty that nobody would take it.
Cf. pre-Messianic Judaism
or Epic of Gilgamesh where he summons Enkidu from the netherworld
or when Odysseus visits Hyperborea and speaks to the spirits of heroes who supposedly got the better deal than mere mortals.
or old kingdom era Egyptian religion where only the king went to the afterlife
So no you moron, it's not.
>>749012
>Furthermore this is why things that they fully know (i.e. how to sew clothes, make weapons, etc) was """"science""" so to speak while shit that has a high chance of going south gets the magical treatment (i.e. hunting, war, childbirth, death).
This is stupid modern false dichotomy. There was no difference between mundane and magical to traditional cultures.
This is readily proven by the presence of smith gods. In fact, in PIE religion, smiths occupied the same spot as magicians in the third function. Despite millennia passing since then, this is preserved in some cultures, like the Roma gypsies who associate soothsaying and prophecy with the art of making cauldrons and pans.
>>749094
Maimonides tbqh
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/maimonides-islam-good-christianity-bad-muslims-bad-christians-good/2013/11/15/
>>749094
>Can you even find one Jew that believes that is true?
Dunno about them but Christians are very much aware of it.
Hence why Russians worship God, Germans worship God, Japanese worship God and Muslims worship Allah (which is Arabian for God).
They don't ever say that Russians are worshipping Boga, Italians are worshipping Dio, etc.
It is an intentional distinction made to hide the fact all three religions worship the very same diety.
>>749102
>what is Elohim
>>749112
Christians believe Jesus is God, but the Quran is so opposed to this belief that it condemns Jesus worshipers to Hell (5.72). For Christians, Jesus is certainly God, and for Muslims Jesus is certainly not God.
How can it be said that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?
>>749113
Elohim is YHWH.
Al-lah is neither Elohim, the Creator, nor is he YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The Arabs worship Ba'al, as they have for thousands of years. Calling Ba'al "God" doesn't change the fact that Hubal, the Ba'al statue, is still the object of their Haj.
>>749106
>Smith gods
Yet another "shit may go wrong" activity. Not to mention working with what late prehistoric/early historic people considered as magical material.
>>749113
Another difference between the Islamic God and the Christian God that is quite personal to me is his Fatherhood. According to Jesus, God is our Father, yet the Quran very specifically denies that Allah is a father (112.1-4). In fact, in 5.18, the Quran tells Muslims to rebuke Jews and Christians for calling God their loving Father because humans are just things that God has created.
YHWH: God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Al-lah/Hubal: god of the arabs
YHWH: Has a Son, Jesus.
Al-lah: Has no children
YHWH: Is Love
Al-lah: Is a trickster, a deceiver, a plotter and a planner.
Those sound the same to you?
The very strident claim from the muslims that they worship the God of the Jews is a lie.
>>749117
>Implying ya'all ain't ayy lmaos worshippers
>>749121
But making weapons was explicitly listed as a "mundane" activity. And as I mentioned, it remained religiously aligned in non-archaic societies as well, who work with metal in their day-to-day lives.
Which is because "mundane" and "religious" tends to be a false dichotomy.
I can't remember who said it, but I remember a quote from an anthropologist who claimed that religion and spirituality began when humans began thinking non-living things had life.
So basically, animism.
>>749123
>YHWH: Has a Son, Jesus.
Doesn't sound like Christians worship the god of the Jews either.
>>749129
>Elohim
>ayy lohim
>ayy lmao
>alien
>>749129
I am. Not your picture, of course, but any reasonable reading of God or angels puts them fairly in the class of aliens, albeit inter-dimensional aliens, rather than your pictured extra-terrestrial alien.
>>749117
>Al-lah is neither Elohim
The etymology is the same you moron.
>>749115
Jesus is the son of God, and is one aspect of the Trinity. Jesus himself isn't God.
Muslims and Christians worship the same God, the difference here being Christians believe Jesus was his son, and Muslims simply believe that Jesus was a prophet.
>>749146
Backwards, as usual.
If you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father.
The Trinity is an elaboration of Jewish theology, not a rejection. By contrast, Tawhid is a categorical rejection of the Trinity, Jesus’ deity, and the Fatherhood of God, doctrines that are grounded in the pages of the New Testament and firmly established centuries before the advent of Islam. Most of the earliest Christians were Jews, incorporating their encounter with Jesus into their Jewish theology. Nothing of the sort is true of Muhammad, who was neither a Jew nor a Christian. Islam did not elaborate on the Trinity but rejected and replaced it.
>>749163
I know this is super not related, but this is the problem I have with people calling the Great Ones in Bloodborne "aliens," it trivializes what they are (dreamtime ideoforms).
>>749165
It is not, actually. Al-lah is a personal name, while Elohim, like Creator, like God, is a title.
I do wish you would wise up soon. You're running out of time.
>>749168
>If you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father.
Yeah, pretty sure Jews don't have the Trinity, nor call God "the Father."
>>749167
Jesus is God. Jesus created the universe.
>>749171
>God is a personal name, while God is a title
>>749170
No offense, but I was unaware the picture had any background.
>>749075
Good little footsoldier, you get a pat on the head.
>>749172
Exactly.
But don't worry. YHWH is coming back, soon, to wrap up their covenant, and they will finally see the One Whom they have pierced, and know that He is God.
>>749171
Al-lah is literally "the God" you dumbwad. It's not a name. Guess to whom Maltese Catholics pray? Allah.
>>749174
Al-lah is a personal name, while God is a title.
Do try to pay attention.
>>749171
Then why do Arabic Christians call God Allah, and have done so since before Islam existed?
>>749173
No no no. It's like this.
Jesus is a stand user and /HOLY SPIRIT/ is his primary stand. /YAHWEH/ is his other higher level stand he uses when faced with an abnormally strong enemy stand like Lucifer's /SON OF DAWN/.
>>749184
yes, I know what the muslim lies are. Their god, al-lah, did not create the universe, and is therefore not God.
- humans start wondering why the fuck do they even exist and why they're smarter than everything else
- concepts such as beauty, coincidences, intuition... have powerful emotional impact yet don't exist physically
- humans feel like they're subjected to something higher than them because of all the things they cannot control or understand, and decide that the earth itself is alive -> animism
- humans find out about those funny mushrooms -> imagination-triggered "spiritual" experiences -> shamanism
- as human society becomes a thing bigger and more organized than tribes, it is decided that whatever higher power(s)'s up there has chosen this other guy to be the king, giving him legitimacy
- eventually deities become organized as their characters and mythical functions mirror those of the society that believes in them
>>749173
I wonder how this whole Jesus fanfiction came to replace the actual God.
Like it's beyond obvious you are worshiping some Roman ripoff of the original deal.
His cultists merely retconned the whole cosmology when they wrote the sequel.
>"not one jot or tittle"
>but writing an entire second half that contradicts the first is ok
How can Christians claim that everyone who opposes them are false liars, when they themselves believe this explicit fabrication?
I just want a straight face honest acknowledgement of this, rather than more blind insistence.
Until then I consider Christians to be dishonest and hold them in contempt.
>>749186
Out of error. Why assume that arabs worshiping allah are actual Christians, again?
>>749213
>rather than more blind insistence
>in a religion thread
>>749213
When Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed many miraculous healings, signs, and wonders, prophesied many things that came true, including His own death and resurrection, and then gave us His Holy Spirit to continue on in His work.
Probably then.
Although a good case could be made that 4000 years ago, Abraham knew Jesus face-to-face, as did Moses, and Joshua, and knew Him to be God.
>>749167
Christians worship the Father.
Do Muslims worship the Father? [No]
Christians worship Jesus, God the Son.
Do Muslims worship Jesus, God the Son? [No]
Christians worship the Holy Spirit.
Do Muslims worship the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Godhead? [No]
Where did you get this idiotic idea that Muslims and Christians worshiped the same God? Oh, that's right. From the muslims.
>>749221
>When Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed many miraculous healings, signs, and wonders, prophesied many things that came true, including His own death and resurrection, and then gave us His Holy Spirit to continue on in His work.
Wow sounds like LITERALLY Dionysus.
They weren't even trying to be creative, they just adapted the Greek story.
Christians really are just cargo cultists all along.
WE WUZ IMMORTALS AND SHEIT
>>749215
God is an English word. Allah is an arab word. They mean the same thing. do they have libraries where you live?
"god" is every bit as a misnomer as "allah" as neither is the Christian God's original name.
how did semantics even get brought up here? Are you people from some country where the government blocks access to this information? Are we experiencing North Korean shitposts?
>>749228
it's the same god with different details. The same differences are apparent in Catholic vs. Protestant Christian sects. Do Catholics and Protestants worship different gods?
>>749245
It's the muslims are actually pagans meme.
I don't know why some christians are so adamant about it, it's not like it changes anything.
>>749257
Yes. Protestants worship a golden bull they've built in their minds.
>>749258
Because God has to be a blonde white anglo santa claus or something.
Or maybe, if they admit ANY similarity with any other religion, the paradigm shifts from US VS THEM to a Matter of Degrees, very uncomfortable when you are mentally fixated on being universally correct.
>>748973
When people learn to dream and tell stories based on said dream. Read Jung
>>749265
As opposed to literal golden statues of Mary or saints?
>>749258
Of course they are. The had 360 pagan gods; they got rid of 359 of them, and called the last remaining one Allah, the god.
It's still Hubal; Hubal is still the chief god of the kabaa and the Querishi, and the god of Mohammad's father.
Ba'al.
>>749273
The look pretty. Don't know any non-Mexican who prays to them.
>>749257
>Do Catholics and Protestants worship different gods?
When did Catholics start worshiping God? Or by God, do you mean Mary?
>>749276
Jews were polytheists at one point too, no?
Christians and Jews recognized the existence of other gods too, no?
Muslims cut their pantheon down too. So?
>>749134
Oh sorry, I was talking of pre-metal based weaponry.
Nobody prays over making a sharpened stick spear while swordmaking is given fucking pride of place.
>>749334
mfw too much toxic gross chauvinism in this sub
>>749347
>>748973
>stone age characters
>"RELIGION" written in Gothic script
Bah
>>749347
>mfw too much toxic gross chauvinism in this sub
>>749320
No, Judaism was never polytheistic. Yes, some Hebrews worshiped many of the canaanite gods, or Egyptian gods, they came into contact with.
Yes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is God; Christians know Him as the Father. Jews think they know Him as the Father, but as they do not have the Son, they also do not have the Father.
I would argue that there have not been any Jews on earth for, oh, almost 2000 years. No Temple, no High Priest, no Passover, everyone's cut off from the Nation of Israel.
Modern Jews, of course, believe that they can unilaterally change or freeze the old covenant in place to make up for the fact that they do not have a Temple, do not have a sacrificial system, and have not held a proper Passover in almost 2000 years.
Jesus told them the last time He was here that they could not alter God's Word, and He'll tell them again, when He comes back.
>>749334
Spotted the muslim apologist/terrorist enabler.
>>749033
Adam is literally the first muslim prophet. Adam and Eve are a thing in the quran
>>748973
>>749422
Mohammad is literally the first muslim....er, he wasn't really a prophet, since he never talked to God, and never said he did.
Hmmmm.....
Well, Mohammad was the first muslim, anyways.
Who made a lot of false claims. That you believe to be true.
>>749422
A lot of the bible is in the quran.
It's called "plagiarism".
>>749436
>>749441
I am sorry you pedant, let me rephrase it so autists can understand it aswell
Adam was the first prophet recognised by muslims.
>>749443
I don't see the relevance of your silly banter
>>749436
>it's all just poetic allegory and enlightened philosophy you silly atheists, it's just for fun not real
Then why are most religious people so literal-minded and obstinate?
Why don't you hold the actual religious believers accountable to your same standard?
Your noble apologetic doesn't ring true.
>>749449
That's looking at religion from a normie's perspective.
The Bible clearly states that your charitable actions should be done out of the kindness of your heart, not done out of wanting a mercedes.
1 Corinthians 16:14
>>749450
I declare today to be the first day of my new religion, Anonassholery, and I declare Adam was my first prophet.
Is Adam indeed my first prophet, Anon?
>>749467
>Then why are most religious people so literal-minded and obstinate?
Because they're normies. Why do atheists treat religion in the same light, just from a different perspective?
>Why don't you hold the actual religious believers accountable to your same standard?
You think I don't have a problem with fundamentalists?
>>749463
That the muslims incorporated a lot of the bible, and a lot of the gnostic and infancy gospels, into their quran.
>>749476
where may i send you your tithe messiah
>>749476
You are the primary figure in your religion so I think you should answer your own question.
>>748973
In the early ages of mankind they needed an explanation for natural phenomena that they did not understand, and so the many different gods sprung from the minds of men.
>>749480
So everyone who doesn't fit your interpretation isn't a true Scotsman?
>PIE religion ->
Vedic religions > Hinduism
Greek religions
Proto-Judeo religion > Judaism > Christianity > Islam
>Indus Valley Civ religion
Sramana religions > Jainism > Buddhism
>Proto chinese religion
Animism
Shamanism
Ancestral worship
-> Taoism/Confusionism
>>749269
You know Saint Nicholas was a real dude right
>>749443
>he doesn't realize that the bible is merely the bastard child of Greek mythos and the Tanakh which itself is adapted material from the legends of the other people they lived around.
>>749594
>Proto chinese religion
You left out heaven worship. Came right after Shamanism.
>>749763
now you see jesus kept traveling back in time and whenever YHWH was about to reveal himself to some old Israelite, Jesus pops in from a time portal and does it instead of him! Eventually YHWH throws up his hands and says Fuck it, You take over if you love fucking with my shit so much, smartass. Heheh, enjoy dying on the cross kiddo! But then jesus right as he was about to die absorbed so much darkness and evil from the world that god was like Damn that kid was serious holy shit he has gained so much power fuck he is basically as powerful as me, maybe I should send him forward in a time portal so he can go talk to some central americans.
>>749797
So after God sent jesus into the future he was super weak and almost dead, he trusted Jesus best friend, like "Hey man you seem to have paid attention, here's the keys to the whole show, don't fuck it up, and peter was like uh okay I'll try but when peter got everyone together they kept fucking up, peter was like Why did God give me these magic keys if he didn't want me to crack them open a little just to keep these guys on the same page ya know?
But the keys were too powerful and Cesar noticed was like hey dude, nice church, what if I just kind of let you guys hang out here, what are friends for eh paisanos, hey tell you what, I have this little cult problem, maybe you could send them a message, make them an offer they can't refuse
>>749231
Jesus did it for real. You can mix and match all the myths you want, but Jesus did it for real.
You think the Greeks didn't have Isaiah?
>>749245
Yes, that's what muslims lie. It's rather a modern lie.
Al-lah is a name. And al-lah is not the Creator. He is the devil.
>>749257
That's like saying your parents are my parents, but with different details.
>>749258
Probably because muslims are pagans.
>>749273
Also pagans.
>>749822
So that's basically what happened, god is dead, jesus went to the future and a bunch of Italians are using god's forbidden magic keys to fuck over everyone's shit.
Oh yeah btw Mohammad showed up but we already instinctivly treat his origin story the same way I have described the early church one so it's not as funny if I do it like that.
>>749839
Rather, it's like saying Zeus and Jupiter are two different gods.
>>749832
>You can mix and match all the myths you want
Hey it's not me doing it, it's the Early Church.
They are the ones plagiarizing the superheroes of the culture they lived in, and slapping a ethnic name on them.
Take it up with them.
wizards taught it to ppl
>>749221
>sinless life
>Jesus
Top kek. Matthew 26: 17-19 record Jesus and co sinning.
This thread lacks religious studies students/post-grads.
/his/ is shit
>>750113
As if breaking the rules of the synagogue of satan is a sin.
kek
Jesus did it all the time, to troll them. It worked.
>>750113
Oh, you think they stole that colt.
Nevermind.
kek
You'll learn, maybe, one day, in the future, that when God does a deal, He works both ends. He told that man that God needed his colt. And then the disciples told him that God needed his colt.
Nothing was stolen, Anon.
>>750259
Your logical fallacy is:
APPEAL TO AUTHORITY
Double bonus points because you used your logical fallacy,
APPEAL TO AUTHORITY
to override the authority of God's Word!
>>749875
Or it's like saying that both Zeus and Jupiter were based on Adam, and the Greeks called him Zeus, and the Romans Jupiter.
Same guy. Not a god. So, no.
>>749221
You might want to check out Leviticus 23 again, anon. Those rules didn't come from Rabbis.
>>749915
Jewish Superheroes
kek
Discount Man!
Argues All Day Man!
Never Gets Proper Service Man!
Mbongu ate some weird plants and told his gullible tribe about the great sky fire
>>750298
Nope, they got their timing wrong. But you had a good chance against that straw man, even if you lost to it too.
Psst, you don't call lambs "colts"
>>750309
Jesus said it is good to do good on the sabbath.
And Jesus is Lord of the sabbath.
You may want to actually stop listening to rabbis. Without a High Priest. Without a Temple. Without sacrifices. Without having ever celebrated Passover, once, properly.
>>750309
Er, what rules? The rules of Passover? The Feast of Unleavened Bread?
Did you know those were two entirely different things? One on the 14th, and one a week long starting on the 15th?
>>750316
I think you got the timing wrong. I'm pretty sure I can prove it, IF YOU WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO.
>>750318
Once again, you fail to be correct. You also manage to fail to be incorrect, and instead address completely random points.
You might want to go back and take the third grade again.
>>750324
>Did you know those were two entirely different things?
Yes, that's entirely the point. Only, not how Jesus observed it, waiting until too late to actually bring (oh wait, jump on someone else's) offering. Hence, sinful.
>>750330
> IF YOU WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO.
It is entirely clear what I am referring to to anyone who has read the passages in question. Clearly, this isn't you. I'm sorry, I should have expected someone going on and on about how their biblical knowledge is infallible to not have actually read the Bible.
>>749528
There was no mention of anything related to a No True Scotsman fallacy.
I'm simply saying of course most people will have a simplistic view when it comes to religion. After all, most people think Saddam Hussein had WMDs.
>>750349
Jesus
is
the
offering
>>750360
The ones the Russians took out of Baghdad, put in Syria, that Assad used, and then gave back to the Russians?
Those WMDs?
Can a man running with a knife kill 10,000?
>>750349
Jesus
is
the
Lamb
of
God
Presented on Nisan 10, inspected for days by the pharisees and Sadducee, and found spotless, blameless, and innocent.
Killed on the Passover.
Risen on the First Fruits
Wake up, Jew.
YHWH is coming. And He's coming heavy.
>>750371
Once again, you fail to address the point.
Even if we accept the notion that Jesus is the allegorical offering, he came too late, since 26:17 makes it extremely clear that it was on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, i.e. after the Passover, that the disciples were out preparing the lamb.
Not to mention that if Jesus is the offering, he sinned, since he you know, didn't bring the offering that god commanded.
Do try to keep up, anon. This is a big boy board. We use complex words, sometimes even entire grammatically correct sentences here.
>>750393
Not what the Gospel says. your opinion is irrelevant and objectively wrong, by what you yourself are saying.
Matthew 26:17
>Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
>>750400
The first day of the Feast is the preparation day, Wednesday. Jesus' last supper is Wednesday night. Jesus is killed on Thursday, the Passover. Jesus is in the tomb Thursday to Sunday morning.
You missed the point.
YOU PEOPLE REJECTED YOUR MESSIAH.
>>750400
>didn't bring the offering that god commanded.
HE IS THE OFFERING GOD COMMANDED.
>>750405
Not what it says in Leviticus. The passover is before the feast of unleavened bread. 23:5-6. Look it up.
You are, quite literally, and according to the Gospels, wrong. Deal with it.
Also, tiptip, not cut dick and star. But your reductio ad juden is amusing. Why did you leave /pol/?
>>750407
I'm pretty sure god can tell the difference between an itinerant preacher and a lamb, even if that distinction is beyond your capabilities.
>>750393
YHWH has been incoming for 1000 years kafir just nuke the holy land like we all know you want to not that it will accomplish anything
>>749221
You mean when Peter and Paul did some great marketing work promoting their bro as something more than he was: a pussy who let himself be killed.
>>749231
>Dionysus
>god of madness and drunken debauchery
>made King Lycurgus of Thrace dismember his son with an ax
>lived a sinless life
Wow sounds LITERALLY like the life of Jesus Christ, the preacher from Galilee.... If you're not actually listening because you're too busy shitposting on 4chan from your smart-phone instead of paying attention in class.
>>749168
Holy shit your are right, Islam are just demiurgists that misinterpreted the early jew christian rebel gnosticism shaped up by pos socratic thought and Zoroastrian influences.
Shit.
