Where do you think we would be had the Firearm not been invented? Better or worse?
more pikes, less shots
>>740095
Things would be a hell of a lot worse.
The invention of the firearm allowed for many of the big societal institutions that had been staples of human history to finally come to an end. By making it easier to raise and train large numbers of fairly effective troops, it signaled the deathknell for the warrior classes that formed almost everywhere. Individual martial skill became less important, and the lower aristocracy that generally made up the warrior classes were undermined. Popular uprisings suddenly become a hell of a lot more feasible, and the ability to make use of the larger population of commoners becomes invaluable in wars.
Without gunpowder to undermine the traditional aristocracy, classical liberalism may never have come about, meaning no modern democracies.
Even worse, if we're assuming guns somehow never came about, that means anything that works remotely similar to gunpowder would have never been invented. So no steam power, which means no (or very, very limited) industrial revolution, which means the world would probably stagnate in a late-medieval kind of period.
The steppe would still periodically confederate and wreck everyone for a while.
>>740191
But think about all the cool sword fights we could be having.
>>740254
Oh yeah cool sword fights would totally be worth the
>lack of electricity
>no modern medical care
>no flight
>fastest means of transportation being horse
>constant threat of famine
>being literal property of the nobility
>>740317
youre a boring person
>>740317
Actually yes
>>740317
If not cool sword fights, then cool CQC.
>>740362
Proto Quark Beams were what blew up Atlantis, don't listen to the Finnish shills.
I like to imagine if I was omnipotent and I could magically make all projectile warfare just straight up "not work"
Shoot a bullet at someone?
>bullet halts an inch away from them and drops
Throw a rock
>rock halts an inch away from them and drops
So the only way to wage war from then on is for the attack to physically still hold the weapon while attacking.
Imagine the cool armor and blades made with modern technology
>>740339
No, I just prefer the the technology that's made the modern world possible.
Swordfights aren't nearly as cool as the literal magic that is modern technolgy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMSfg26YSQ
>>740388
Ok, then we make proximity warheads that explode when they stop an inch away from you.
Sure, you might not be killed by the shrapnel, but you're still going to get fucked from the overpressure.
>t. engineer
>>740398
>modern technology
We would have developed real magic had science not overtaken the study of witchcraft and alchemy.
>>740405
Nope, omnipotent and magic
Make it so the warhead just doesn't blow up.
>>740398
>No
Yeah you are, he was clearly joking and you just went full cereal. You're boring.
>>740419
oh yea well i bet u kiss grills faget
>>740412
Alright then
>"glide bomb" type mechanism with enough mass to to fuck up anything it hits while only coming in as fast as your standard sword blow would come
I can guarantee there's always some modern thing that would either find a loophole in your arbitrary and retarded scenario.
>>740430
the attacker has to be holding the weapon as it comes in contact with his enemy and not propelled by any force other than the muscles of the attacker
>>740438
So gloves are no longer a thing? And no arrows, I assume?
Very well.
>glide bomb described above
>absurdly long fishing wire tied to end of bomb on one end and to the pilot/WSO's foot on the other
>mechanical lever used to jettison bomb, meaning the pilot is providing the initial force to propel the weapon
>impact sensors to cut the wire an instant after the weapon impacts
>>740458
What are you even doing?
>>740469
autistically trying to poke holes in some ill-conceived fantasy scenario. Duh.
>>740501
Mi negro
>>740095
The native american race would still exist maybe
So a lot worse
>>740317
Yeah but swords man, SWORDS.
>>740458
that might work but its magic so who knows
>>740191
You talk as if the death of the warrior caste and the advance of classical liberalism or any of this were a good thing.
>>740191
>Not joining warrior class
>Not becoming aristocracy through your martial merits
>>740531
Are you implying that it's not?
>>740541
>Not becoming aristocracy through your martial merits
Exactly. Because you're literally property of some local aristocrat who doesn't want his peasants getting uppity.
>>740200
Dubs speak truth
>>740095
Worse.
Guns are just cool, I'll never understand swordfags.
>>740317
The only real downsides you mention are medical care and famine, which admittedly would suck. The other I can think of would be that print media production would be very low, which is kind of sad.
Other than that:
>lack of electricity
Oh no, I have to heat and light my house with firewood.
>no flight
I hate jetlag, anyway.
>fastest means of transportation being horse
Like I want to go faster than that anyway. Do you seriously think I enjoy rush hour traffic? I would much rather spend an entire day traveling to the mill every harvest than deal with the highway system.
>being literal property of the nobility
Human beings have always essentially been owned by other humans. The same is true today, it's just less visible.
>>741861
Guns are for cowards, faggot.
>hurr watch me shoot off luckshots hurr durr so ebin gaiz XdDD so fuken maanly lmao
>>742650
>Mad because it gave an even playing field for manlets.
>>742650
What THE FUCK is he compensating for?!?!
>>740254
You would be using polearms and projectile weapons, anon. You would likely only draw a sword as last resort or if you were cavalry.
>>740531
All these niggers thinking they would be part of ruling class, aristocracy or warrior caste jerking off to monarchism and feudalism.
>>742650
Weapons are for cowards, faggot.
>hurr watch me swing off luckslashes hurr durr so ebin gaiz XdDD so fuken maanly lmao
>>742690
>the-white-death.jpg
why would you name a picture of a nameless swedish volunteer "the-white-death"?
>>741861
Same, I always found artillery and firearms cooler as fuck. There is something cool about the efficient killing it brings. Swords are fine when used by cavalry, officers and civilians in self-defence but they don't have that weapon of systematic killing quality to them.
Especially fan of line infantry, they look so fucking cool with the smoking coming from them, double cool with the bayonet charge it follows. Cannon batteries also look very cool, the destruction they bring, both on land and sea is so fucking imposing and awe inspiring.
>>740518
Pike squares and smallpox could have subdued the savages.
>>740095
last time I discussed this on /k/, it basically fell to 2 conclusions:
1) the firearm is an inevitable invention
2) if it doesn't get invented, humanity in that alt-timeline is unreasonably unintelligent.
srsly, the concept of a handgonne is essentially "stuff charcoal, potash and sulphur inna tube, drop a smoothed ball in and light it up".
its the sort of question that rings similar to "what if we never made bows". well, simply, we'd be tree swingin' apes still, that's what.
>>742769
>1) the firearm is an inevitable invention
That's fucking stupid. To the highest degree. Gunpowder itself was a super accidental invention.
What's inevitable probably is the development of ranged combat of some form. Because its just so fucking efficient
>on /k/
No fucking wonder. That place is 1 parts children. 1 parts cunts caring about history post 19th Century. And only about their guns.
>>742782
Not him, but the firearm - in one form or another - was pretty much inevitable.
Like you said, one day or another, ranged combat is efficient, and humans are pretty damn smart when it comes to killing each others.
By these facts, in the logical development of ranged combat, a guy would have thought about stepping up ranged combat to a new level, be it via incendiary means (greek fire-like weapons), chemical means, or by using, I don't know, pneumatic technology in order to create a air-gun.
You are true in the sense that "firearms" weren't inevitable ; but guns were. We love to find new ways to kill each others, guns were a logical step up.
tl;dr : humans are smart cunts and always find new ways to kill themselves.
>>742874
>Pneumatic
Then its not a firearm anymore.
>Incendiary
Then its an incendiary. And most incendiaries were hurled kinetically.
>Chemical
Its not pyrotechnical so its something else.
That was was my point: if it doesnt involve gunpowder and the resultant formulations its not a firearm anymore.
Gunpowder came to be through a bewildering series of accidents: presupposed pre-scientific alchemical beliefs, and the insane Chinese drive to make immortality-drugs.
>>743073
You're being a little bit of an autistic literalist. What anon is saying is that while firearms as we know them today might not be inevitable, there are many other ways to shoot a projectile at highspeed that doesn't involve gunpowder, but will still function pretty similarly to a gun as we know one.
>>741965
Without electricity and transportation, business and economies would be so damn slow and boring as fuck.
>>741965
>>lack of electricity
>Oh no, I have to heat and light my house with firewood.
good bye electronics, goodbye internet. Are you really ready for a life without internet porn?
>>743417
>Not pillaging villages and raping women in order to satisfy your carnal desires.
>>742703
This.
99% of people here wouldnt even be literate enough to be part of this discourse if it was still a feudal society.
>>740095
Worse.
The same fundementals that allow the firearm to exist, allow other technologies to exist, like external and internal combustion engines.
