How did we go from this
To this?
You mean from Europe to Murica?
>>715607
Or America to Yurope?
>>715607
They're both america m8
When what they wanted to say was shot down by debate and reasoning, they campaigned for free speech to force themselves to be heard.
Now that they're all we can hear, they don't want free speech. And why would they? It's in their interest to not allow dissenting opinions after all.
>>715601
>>715600
A blog post, but it's a good analysis of the subject.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/
At least in America, the modern "left" is mostly formed by creating a coalition of people who are opposed, in one way or another, to mainstream cultural mores. They don't really stand for things so much as stand against certain things.
>>715620
Lol
>>715600
>>715601
As this guy says >>715608
left and right are general terms. The right/left of one generation has no relationship the previous one except in the most superficial levels.
The only reason we even have the terms is because America is based on a two party system so all politicla discussions have a dichtomy. In reality there are more than 2 choices for any given idea.
Think of left and right as empty jars, you can put anything in one as long as the other jar does not have it.
>>715629
>They don't really stand for things so much as stand against certain things.
aka slave morality
>>715600
Cthulu swims left, and left, and left.
>>715727
This is a shitty explanation.
1. It assumes the capitilists waited around for hundreds of years and only figured out they could bribe politicians in the last 30 years.
2. Politicians on both the left and right are bribed by 'capitalists' where do you think they get their campaign funding?
>>715600
Great thread OP.
>>715600
The left is constantly against the establishment. That's just the definition. Classical liberals evolved to be the modern conservative movement, founded on the principles of the enlightenment. They eventually became the establishment. The New Left arose from academia, specifically the Frankfurt School, and from those that became disenfranchised. In order to bring down the conservative establishment, they first started attacking its ideals. This latter pic you posted is testament to that. They're merely useful idiots.
They realized actual equality didn't make them as rich and powerful as their former oppressors. So they want to be the oppressors.
Though really they are just being useful idiots to globalists.
>>715749
campaigns are funded by something other than capitalism? what then?
>>715600
>>715601
Leftism became the dominant culture.
>>715850
>that's just the definition
whose?
>>715600
to this!?
>>716204
To this
>>715629
>he modern "left" is mostly formed by creating a coalition of people who are opposed, in one way or another, to mainstream cultural mores.
and now that the maintsream cultural mores are now what was previously considered "liberal", they must go to further extremes to mainatin their "underdog" mentality.
>>715601
Free speech was useful to the left when they didn't hold educational institutions and cultural industry. Now that they have all the power, all "free speech" can do is work agains them, so they move to ban it.
In the end, they never defended free speech out of principle, they only did it for Power.
>>716263
See this, for example.
>I believe in non-violent methods of struggle as most effective in the long run for building up successful working class power. Where they cannot be followed or where they are not even permitted by the ruling class, obviously only violent tactics remain. I champion civil liberty as the best of the non-violent means of building the power on which workers rule must be based. If I aid the reactionaries to get free speech now and then, if I go outside the class struggle to fight against censorship, it is only because those liberties help to create a more hospitable atmosphere for working class liberties. The class struggle is the central conflict of the world; all others are incidental.
This was from Roger Nash Baldwin, founder of the ACLU.
Also, pic related, from the "Father of the New Left".
>>716272
Marcuse is such a retarded faggot i can't believe his shit was ever taken seriously.
I remember reading an article by some jewish lesbian who actually participated in the free speech movement and is now a crusty tenured professor. She said they were all naive to supporr free speech in their youth because they didn't know how it could hurt the poor sensitive shitskins.
Fucking disgusting.
>>715600
Young people are really easily molded by passionate ideologues. See: Black Lives Matter, /pol/, Bolsheviks.
They already have free speech, so they can't protest for it. Since they already have it, they'll complain about anything. The mistake we make is believing that these people have the self-awareness to understand the absurdity of their actions, because they don't.
>>716272
>This was from Roger Nash Baldwin, founder of the ACLU.
The ACLU at least defended it in the broad sense with the Skokie case a good example of that.
http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3473&context=penn_law_review is a good article that criticizes the more censorship happy parts of the left. The only bad thing is the response to the article (should be easy enough to google) which is pretty much "you must be in league with the segregationists".
>>716245
Then you're part of it
>219. Leftism is a totalitarian force. Wherever leftism is in a position of power it tends to invade every private corner and force every thought into a leftist mold. In part this is because of the quasi-religious character of leftism; everything contrary to leftist beliefs represents Sin. More importantly, leftism is a totalitarian force because of the leftists’ drive for power. The leftist seeks to satisfy his need for power through identification with a social movement and he tries to go through the power process by helping to pursue and attain the goals of the movement (see paragraph 83). But no matter how far the movement has gone in attaining its goals the leftist is never satisfied, because his activism is a surrogate activity (see paragraph 41). That is, the leftist’s real motive is not to attain the ostensible goals of leftism; in reality he is motivated by the sense of power he gets from struggling for and then reaching a social goal. [35] Consequently the leftist is never satisfied with the goals he has already attained; his need for the power process leads him always to pursue some new goal. The leftist wants equal opportunities for minorities. When that is attained he insists on statistical equality of achievement by minorities. And as long as anyone harbors in some corner of his mind a negative attitude toward some minority, the leftist has to re-educated him. And ethnic minorities are not enough; no one can be allowed to have a negative attitude toward homosexuals, disabled people, fat people, old people, ugly people, and on and on and on. It’s not enough that the public should be informed about the hazards of smoking; a warning has to be stamped on every package of cigarettes. Then cigarette advertising has to be restricted if not banned. The activists will never be satisfied until tobacco is outlawed, and after that it will be alcohol, then junk food, etc.
>>716485
What's the problem here?
>>715600
I don't see a lot of "Leftist" mindset when it comes to modern progressivism. Most of these people don't want a revolution, they don't want the dictatorship of the Proletariate or something of that sorts. Essentially, they're fine with how things are, they're just under the impression that due to racism or sexism, due to trans- or homophobia they didn't have the same chances and they want to raise them, by shaping society to make it more what they perceive as equal and inclusive. The bigger issues however, are unimportant to them, they only care about their own microcosm.
>>716263
>the left holds all the power
kek
>>716735
How many conservatives hold powerful positions in the culture industry, namely academia and media?
>>715749
Not him but the left has obviously changed in the past 30 years.
Taking advantage of peoples' fears of racism, sexism and homophobia has become a racket, it is a far cry from 50 years ago during the civil rights movement when there was plenty of actual R/S/H to get mad at. Compare occupy wall street with the student protests of the 60s.
>>716735
All the powers concerning free speech, that is, which is cultural, social and political power.
They do not hold economical power yet, but they are working towards it.
>>716839
Have you ever heard of this thing called Fox News? Appearently a lot of people watch it.
In regards to academia, it doesn't make sense to break up the humanities into conservative and liberal it's horrible reductionism. I Michael Focaulst a liberal? Well he critisized a lot of power structures and cultural norms that pissed off conservatives, espcially his pro-gay stance. But he also attacked liberal power structures and bitch slapped Chomsky in a debate. His way of thinking was about identifying and criticizing power structures that everyone assumed were neutral parties, it's beyond the simple duality of left and right.
>>716874
No one takes Fox News seriously.
And Michel Foucault was an obvious leftist.
>>716874
>Fox News?
Yeah, it's the single conservative national news station.
Have you heard of ABC, NBC, HLN, and CNN?
>>716874
Focaults pseudo-intellectualism and broad, vague, unfalsifiable "analysis" of seemingly monolithic power structures are why leftists of today are so retarded.
>>716874
The idea that people like Foucault somehow transcended "ideology" is literally the trashcan of ideology itself.
>>716928
Maybe those stations are left compared to Fox, but they aren't really. America in general is pretty far to the right.
>>715727
Fifel, put your trip back on so we can ignore your inane bullshit.
>>716263
>>716272
>>717031
You're wrong m8.
You're just so deep within leftist hegemony that leftism seems like the natural order.
>>717031
shut the fuck up you tard.
>>715600
>>715601
Just like any other ruling body with no moral compass, once they got power themselves from riding a narrative of powerlessness they started abusing it while having their strings pulled by the usual suspects. Most people will instinctively root for the underdog, the perceived victim, and that's the single unifying factor of the entire left and the key to their "success" - a victim complex.
>Wahh, the Bourgeoisie is oppressing us pls gib guns
>Wahh men are oppressing us pls gib suffrage
>Wahh whitey is oppressing us pls gib affirmative action
>Wahh free speech is oppressing us pls gib hate speech laws
>>716874
>Fox News
>Conservative
Ahahaha oh WOW. I bet you think the GOP is conservative as well.
>>716874
oh look, a time traveller from 2006
>>717031
>America in general is pretty far to the right.
Meanwhile yurop is going through a literal fascist revolution.
>>716939
They use his ideas.
And the New Right also uses his ideas.
>>716965
I never said he transcends ideology I'm saying he transcends the two fucking political parties....which isn't that hard.
>>717181
In America GOP is the very defination of political conservative, since there are only two parties. There may other definations but within the sphere of american two party politics the Republicans are conservative and the Democrats are liberal, there's no other forces in the political spectrum for them to express them self in.
But yes once you move past the extremly shallow field of politics there is a great many types of conservative.
>>717305
No mainstream American party is "conservative". What have they conserved? It's an outmoded term like "left" and "right" that means about as much as calling some place "first world" vs "third world" in the modern day. Only the holdovers of what you associate (development vs lack of development) are relevant.
>>717543
I agree that the tersm conservative and liberal are shitty.
All the more reason why grouping intellectuals into the two categories is fucking retarded.
>>717305
The GOP hasn't ever "conserved" a fucking thing, just acted as a speed bump.
>>715727
I honestly am starting to believe this. If you hang out in leftwing circles you'll notice that the SJW clique is very hostile to traditional leftism of economic/class politics.
We know now that COINTELPRO tried to disunify and neutralize black nationalism during the civil rights era doing such things as spreading fake Black Panther literature (pic related) to discredit and/or radicalize. We also know Gloria Steinem, arch feminist and identity politics pusher, worked with the CIA who seemed to be involved with other similar liberals/activist organization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HRUEqyZ7p8
The CIA may or may not have been involved in helping fund American modern abstract art such as Jackson Pollock (I'm not clear on this one). Clearly powerful status quo protecting forces have been involved with "culture war" organizations before.
The recent "social justice" turn is like the Reichstag fire. Was it caused by a radical socialist or Nazis seeking to blame radical socialist? We still don't know, but either way it benefited them greatly nonetheless. If the CIA or whatever didn't start SJWism those that seek to protect neoliberalism sure have benefited anyway and could hardly hope to come upon a greater divide and destroy poison for the radical left.
>>718017
lol it's no secret. It's not COINTELPRO (like holy shit, that's Cold War shit when Americans hired ex-nazis to hunt commies), but Soros funded the New School for example.
Americans are so far to the Right, for them social liberalism is leftist.
>>718017
>the SJW clique is very hostile to traditional leftism of economic/class politics.
Because they're all trustfund babbies pretending to be oppressed.
Sheltered rich kids are just naturally attracted to the movement because they're so accustomed to being coddled and infantilized that they demand it when they leave the nest.
>>715600
Materialist leftism died with the USSR. It'll take ages before people realise that queer capitalism is still capitalism.
>>718325
they're simply ahead of the curve
>>716227
What's wrong with that desu, they seem to be having a nice time and the message is true, don't be rude and consent the cutie if you want some of the booty.
>>718375
Name three fucking things that the GOP has "conserved" over the last half-century.
>>718429
Nothing, but only because they have to be forced to give up their retarded social policies and agendas fucking kicking and screaming.
>>718471
Right.
So if they've failed utterly to conserve anything and have been giving ground nonstop, how can they be called conservatives? The pattern it that the Democrats today are where the GOP is going to be in a decade and change; they're just progressives who milk votes by insisting that they aren't.
>>718375
Left, right, conservative, liberal are just arbitrary labels that mean different things in different places and times.
Hitler was a socialist, stalin killed jews, pol pot wanted to genocide the vietnamese, ronald raegan was a gun grabber, democrats lynched niggers and lincoln wanted to send them all to liberia. Left and right really doesn't mean anything because political platforms can't be plotted on a line.
America isn't more right wing than the rest of the world just because we have high rates of firearm ownership and less safety net. Firearm ownership was a leftist thing for a long time. America is also the most diverse nation in the anglosphere while yurop is crumbling trying to accommodate syrian refugees. Nations with safety nets like in yurop cannot sustain that level of immigration.
Conservatism in america is supposed to be about preserving the ideals of the enlightenment, which was the original "liberal" movement.
>>718484
Just because they're forced by evolving public opinion doesn't make them progressives. You think they were happy about any of the concessions they've had to make over the past few decades?
They're still fighting their damn hardest to make sure gays aren't treated equally, for example. The Democrats aren't really any better, either.
America hardly has any real left.
>>718512
>They're still fighting their damn hardest to make sure gays aren't treated equally, for example.
You're not American are you? Gay marriage has barely been touched on in any of the GOP debates.
>>718512
Oh fuck off.
If you can't be fucking bothered to know a countries politics without resorting to Bush era generalizations then you shouldn't try at all.
>>715600
>>715601
Progressives are in power, their ideas are the "good" ones to have in polite society. They gain nothing from having these ideas honestly discussed by people, so they label any discussion of identity politics as racist, sexist, etc. Conservatives try to fight this with "political correctness gone mad!" type thought.
This isn't really any different than than the conservative government of the '50s going after commies. If conservatives are in power, they have nothing to gain from people discussing progressive ideas, so discussion of progressive ideas is labeled "un-American Communism" and carries harsh and very real penalties.
It's basically, whatever group is in power has nothing to gain from allowing free speech. The underdog has everything to gain.
>>715600
You seem to have made a basic mistake. That appears to be Americans. "The New Left" began with the CPGB dissident paper "The Reasoner" which became "New Reasoner" which merged with "Universities and Left Review" (IIRC) to become NLR.
You seem to have posted some american liberals.
>>716700
Fucking look at them. You can tell how special they think they are by the way they're dressing. Look at those unkempt grills. Look at that Freestyle looking mother fucker dressed like a hobo. Look at that diseased goblin in the middle, with this hipster glasses. Look at that bitch who somehow meshed the French Resistance style with Britney Spears and Daria. Does any of them seem like a normal balanced individual to you?
OK, say I'm wrong in judging them. Does it seem like they are facing any kind of oppression, marching happily up and down the street? Do you think they could iterate a 20-point program that they want instated? DO you think they understand how the law works? Do you think they're something other than drugged-up hippies with a cause and some fucking screeching feminist shouting shit behind them?
>>718368
Beta award of the year
>>715601
To this?
This thread was moved to >>>/pol/64604869
