What does the average Chinese know about the histories of the Greeks and the Romans?
Do they know pretty much nothing just like the average Westerner knows pretty much nothing about Chinese history?
Well they had legends of Da Qin (Rome), which was seen as a sort of mythical counterpart of China mirrored on the other side of the world. The average peasant would probably know about as much about Rome as medieval peasants would have known about China.
>>710546
*Medieval Roman, I meant
>>710546
I think that reflects the attitude of the time of trying to use China as the yardstick for everything.
This is by no means bad, in any way. It's just interesting. Then again, I might be more sympathetic to China due to my fetish for asian girls.
>>710364
Why Asian flags look so ugly ?
>>712052
>>712052
no rule of tincture
>>712062
10/10
>>710364
They have westaboos i guess. But aside from that i dunno.
>>710364
Qing were a meme dynasty desu
>>712062
KEK
I'm a westaboo. In terms of Chinese and Asian history, I'm, only really interested in the Yuan and Qing Dynasties and Vietnamese history.
I'm far more interested in Late Antiquity, Ancient Mesopotamia, The Crusades and Byzantine History. Half the people back home don't know shit about what I talk about though, so it takes genuine interest fostered through things like historical games to cause people to really give a shit about anything outside of their countries over here.
>>710364
>What does the average Chinese know about the histories of the Greeks and the Romans?
Speaking as a Chinese who was born and raised in mainland China
MOTHERFUCKING
ARCHIMEDES
NIGGA
>>714086
CRADLE
OF
MOTHERFUCKING
CIVILIZATION
>>710546
>Well they had legends of Da Qin (Rome), which was seen as a sort of mythical counterpart of China mirrored on the other side of the world.
Its really interesting because you can see the the grains of truth. This is from 97AD (The start of the Nerva–Antonine dynasty, Nerva, Trajan Hadrian)
Their kings are not permanent. They select and appoint the most worthy man. If there are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, such as frequent extraordinary winds or rains, he is unceremoniously rejected and replaced. The one who has been dismissed quietly accepts his demotion, and is not angry.
The people of this country are all tall and honest. They resemble the people of the Middle Kingdom and that is why this kingdom is called Da Qin. This country produces plenty of gold [and] silver, [and of] rare and precious they have luminous jade, 'bright moon pearls,' Haiji rhinoceroses, coral, yellow amber, opaque glass, whitish chalcedony, red cinnabar, green gemstones, gold-thread embroideries, woven gold-threaded net, delicate polychrome silks painted with gold, and asbestos cloth.
They also have a fine cloth which some people say is made from the down of 'water sheep', but which is made, in fact, from the cocoons of wild silkworms. They blend all sorts of fragrances, and by boiling the juice, make a compound perfume. [They have] all the precious and rare things that come from the various foreign kingdoms. They make gold and silver coins. Ten silver coins are worth one gold coin. They trade with Anxi and Tianzhu by sea. The profit margin is ten to one. [...] The king of this country always wanted to send envoys to the Han, but Anxi, wishing to control the trade in multi-coloured Chinese silks, blocked the route to prevent [the Romans] getting through [to China].[3]
>>714096
>and is not angry.
top lel
>>714096
Their kings are not permanent. They select and appoint the most worthy man. If there are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, such as frequent extraordinary winds or rains, he is unceremoniously rejected and replaced. The one who has been dismissed quietly accepts his demotion, and is not angry.
That is so wrong, on so many levels, Jesus. Is there a Roman Emperor that stepped down without making a fuss?
>>710364
The Chinese knew of the Both, starting when they bothered to know of the larger world under the Han Dynasty.
The Greeks were known as "Yuan." From the Persian "Yunan" meaning "Ionian." From the Iranics they understood that they weren't from around there and were invaders. And they were right: who the Chinese met were the Seleucids and Greek Colonies in Bactria and Ferghana.
By this time however, the Seleucids have been driven off. So the Chinese called the largest gathering of these peoples - in Ferghana, centered around the city-states of Alexandreia-Eschate (Alexandria the Furthest) & Marakanda- Dayuan (i.e. land of the "Great Yuans.").
Relations with the Dayuan started badly with China. During this age was the Han-Xiongnu War. The Ferghana greeks raised some of the best horses in the region - stallions capable of bearing an armored man into battle similar to Nisaean Horses. The Chinese called these Tianma, "Heavenly Horses."
China wanted to buy 10,000 of such Horses from Ferghana Greeks. The Kinglets of Marakanda and Alexandreia-Eschate went "That's nice, but YOU'RE BUYING MORE THAN HALF OF OUR STOCK."
So China sent an army to Ferghana, wrecked the Dayuan in battle, and stole 10,000 Horses in a war now known as "The War of the Heavenly Horses." However, Dayuan became friends with China as the Han Dynasty destroyed the Xiongnu Threat which hung over everyone in Central Asia for good.
Pic related was an episode in the Ssuma Qian's history of that war. A certain Dayuan noble called "Jinmi" by the Chinese held a breach in Marakanda against Han forces. The Chinese were impressed by his bravery that they spared him following Marakanda's capitulation.
>>714150
As for the Romans, the Chinese knew them better. Daqin has already been discussed in this thread. Though relations between Han China and Rome was largely commercial, via middlemen.
However, 300's-500's AD was shit for both Roman and Chinese Empires. When the Sui dynasty reunified China after a long period of destabilization known as the Nanbeichao (Southern/Northern Dynasties Period) the Chinese sent cunts to the west again to see what the world was like. They met the Eastern Roman Empire and thought this was a new state that succeeded the "Daqin." So they called it "Fu Lin" (New Wealth.).
From 600's AD to its fall in 1450's Byzantines were China's only penpals to Europe. They'd have no diplomatic contact with Europe for another 300 years afterwards until the Qing hears of the wealth of Louis XIV, and promptly sends a formal embassy to the cunt.
>>714167
>They'd have no diplomatic contact with Europe for another 300 years afterwards until the Qing hears of the wealth of Louis XIV
Matteo Ricci and the Portuguese would disagree
>>714150
Do you know of any books on these sorts of interactions?
>>714173
Matteo Ricci was understood as a religious figure. By and large the Chinese did not like the Portuguese due to the slavery/piracy shit they pulled in the 1520's.
And by diplomatic contact I meant a Chinese cunt sent to be an ambassador abroad.
>>712062
topkek.
>>714150
>Kinglets
Please tell me that's an actual term.
>>714246
Nope, I just called them that because Ferghana Valley is filled by cities and towns each ruled by a Greek king (Basileos).
Greeks cut off from the Seleucids and Hellenic Civilization went Mad-Max basically. Army officers of what used to be Seleucid garrisons declared themselves kingdoms, and whose main livelihood came from leeching off the wealth of the Silk Route and agriculture.
>>714194
Start with "Hellenes and Romans in China, 240 BC-1398 AD" by Lucas Christopoulos. In the "Sino-Platonic Papers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations
>>710546
I think you've read the meaning of DA Qin wrong. It's not talking about the mythological stats of an empire but rather the information gathered from the traders about the empire to the west. Bactria was also called a DA Qin as well since that was a place where greeco Buddhists lived and traded with China. Bactria was also quite a rich area.
>>714306
Petty King would probably be the english term.
>>712063
Looks like colors on a metal to me.
>>714115
The information reaching them at the time of writing probably pertains to the Republic.
>>714306
Petty king, high king.
Used to assign Plato's Gorgias to my students and had one Chinese student who told me he couldn't get a Chinese version of it
could be the Greeks is not available in China
>>714342
Bactria was called Daxia.
>>714115
>Is there a Roman Emperor that stepped down without making a fuss?
Diocletian?
>>712052
They don't
>>714060
I'm interested in this. Does anyone know about African or Asian westaboos? Or not westaboos necessarily, but African or Asian views on European history and culture. Does anyone know of any books or documentaries on the subject.
>>712062
>>714693
>Dio 'I-have-just-completely-destroyed-what-little-is-left-of-the-empire-under-the-guise-of-saving-it-and-I-am-totally-going-to-get-away-it-all-and-watch-the-dominate-burn' Cleetus
absolutely haram
>>714764
Why do you need a book for that, literally every National heroes were westaboos. They even got accused for being 'too Western' by Islamists, and then had to bullshit their way out by using the 'modernization, not westernization!' argument.
>>714167
I think I 've heard/read somewhere that there was a Chinese embassy in Constantinople.
>>714060
But what about based Tang dynasty? Why do you like the two foreigner dynasties?
>>714992
They look more interesting than the other dynasties that are purely Han, growing up seeing chinese period dramas on TV all the time sorta makes them all seem like the same thing. They just seem more exotic. I grew up in 'Nam as well which meant that I had to have SOME knowledge of the War and precolonial history.
>>714764
You're probably aware of the Japanese Meiji Restoration that was pretty much Westaboo. The Qing Emperor Kangxi was also pretty fond of Western Jesuits and learned much from them, even as far as learning the Spinet, a European Harpsichord instrument. (Richard J. Smith, 'The Qing Dynasty and Traditional Chinese Culture'). Also, most of the people in Hong Kong find that it was much better as a British Colony as well because they at least maintained a form of democracy.
>>716335
>I grew up in 'Nam
Do Vietnamese refugee diaspora treat you like shit because they think you're a commie or no?
>>716335
>democracy
this meme needs to end. HK was not a democracy, however they lived under the British Common Law and as such lived under a very based legal system.
>>710546
Da Qin and China's interaction with Rome has to be the most fascinating topic there is.
Two great Empires, unable to directly interact in a world that is centuries away from easy communication over great distances.
But they still held an enormous amount of respect for one another. It's so fucking great, it's tragic Rome died and they never met face to face.
I've asked this before, but is there any account of what China's reaction was to the fall of Constantinople, or if there was any at all?
>>714342
The term may not be exclusive to Rome, but the ancient Chinese did hold Rome in a uniquely high regard still. Believing Rome to be the counterpart to China on the other side of the world.
>>714115
Romulus Augustulus
>>714385
No, this was well into the Empire period.
The guy who wrote this never actually made it to Rome itself though. He got about as far as the Caspian sea and headed back to China after being told it could take years to get to Rome and back.
Fucking wish he went.
>>716350
I don't know many diaspora kids, but I might as well be one since I grew up in an English private school and was more exposed to Western culture than the average kid over here.
>>716371
My mistake, but the Brits were certainly a lot more transparent in their governance and and I do sympathise with the HK side of my family that rejects the bullshit changes that Beijing wants to push through that will ultimately affect the City's cultural identity.
>>710364
If anything, Justinian did allegedly have agents smuggle silkworms into the ERE from China. The expanse of the Mongol Empire and the influence of Nestorian Christianity in it might have suggested that some Greeks might have made it to Dadu as well. I've got no sources on this.
>The country of Fulin (拂菻) is also called Daqin and is situated on the west side
of the Haixi (Egypt). It is located at forty thousand li (~16,000 km);
in the north it is bordered by the territories of the Turkish Kesa (可薩).
At the western side, near the sea, there is the (capital) city of Constantinople (Chisan 遲
散).118 (Fulin) has a common border with Persia in the southeast. Its territory
extends more than ten thousand li (~5000 km), and its armies recruit hundreds of
thousands of soldiers. Every ten li (~5 km) there is a pavilion, and every three li
(1.5 km) there is a military place. There are ten subordinate, little countries, and to
go there, the road passes through the countries of Yisan (澤散Armenia; in
Armenian Hayastan) and Lufen (驢分the Kievan Rus; Lat. Ruthenia). Yisan is at
its northeastern section and does not obey its orders. Going in the direction of the
eastern Guohai Sea, at two thousand li, there is the country of Lufen. The capital
city Chisan is protected by thick walls eight li (~3.2 km) long, and the
eastern door is twelve zhang high, with hinges made of pure gold. There are three
doors in a line on the three king’s palaces, and they are all decorated with many
kinds of jewels. On the middle door there is a big man made of gold next to a
horologe made with twelve golden balls that shows the time. There are huge
columns in the palace made of crystal, with the posts made of colored glaze and
rafters made of perfumed wood; the floor is made of gold with ivory everywhere.
>>716484
>They have twelve administrative regions.119 When the king goes out, there is
always an assistant with him and when there is a dispute, they throw the request
paper at him; in this way, the king rectifies the injustices in the provinces. If there
are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, he (the king) is unceremoniously
rejected and replaced. The cape of the king is like two wings of a bird made of
jewels and feathers. His clothes are made of brocade and he has no garment in
front. His throne is made of gold and decorated with falling flowers, and on his
side there is a bird with green feathers (a peafowl; Lat. Pavo) 120 that cries
suddenly when there is poison in the food. They do not use ceramic bricks but
they decorate the walls with white stones and the tiles of the houses are solid and
elegant like the jade. They have a system of fountains to refresh the air. The men
cut their hair and their clothes are finely embroidered, open on the right side.
They have screened coaches (for the women) and small white-roofed one-horse
carts. When carriages come and go, drums are beaten and flags and standards are
raised. The women have white pieces of cloth made of brocade on their hair. The
families always complain and many go to the palace court. They like to get drunk
and to eat biscuits. They have many children. There are also many illusionists,
who can spit fire out of their faces, have very nimble hands and can take out
banners from their mouths and make balls of jade come out of their feet.
>>716497
There are
excellent doctors who are able to open the stomach to take out the diseases and that can also repair the eyes. They have plenty of gold (jin 金), silver (yin 銀),
phosphorescent jade (yeguangbi 夜光璧), precious stones (mingyueqiu 明月球),
large seashells (dabei 大貝), mother-of-pearl (chequ 車渠), agates (manao 嗎硇),
munan (木難), empty jades (kongchi 孔翠), and yellow amber (hupo 虎魄). In the
sea, there are oceans of corals; the mariners use big ships and they throw iron nets
into the bottom of the sea. At the beginning of their lives, the corals are white,
then they become yellow after one year, then they become red after three year,s
and their branches are complex, to a height of 3 or 4 chi (less than one meter).
They use the iron nets to cut the corals at their roots and then to bring them up
into the ship, and when they pull up the nets, nobody dares go close to the waters.
There is a beast large like a dog that they call “Zhi,” fierce and evil, with great
strength.122 In the northern area there are many sheep; they grow from the earth
and their navels are linked to the earth; they die if it is cut. When the armored
horsemen go out of the cities, they hit the drums and the umbilical cords (of the
sheep) are cut; the sheep immediately follow the river grass and they are not in
the herd anymore (and they die). The seventeenth year of the Zhenguan era (643
AD), the king of Fulin, Boduoli (波多力 Constantine II “Pogonatos”) sent an
embassy with colored glass and some “essence of green glasses.” (The emperor
Taizong) made gifts (of silk) in return. When the Arabs (大食 Dashi)123 were
getting stronger, the surrounding countries were slowly conquered and Muawiyah
(Moye 摩拽) was sent to conquer the capital of Fulin.
>>716522
After this, a peace treaty
was signed and every year the Fulin paid tributes of silk and gold to the Dashi as a vassal country. The second year of the Qianfang era (667 AD) an embassy was
sent bringing gifts and theriaca (Diyejia 底野加). The first year of the Daju era
(701 AD), a new embassy came to the court. The first month of the seventh year
of the Kaiyuan era (719 AD), a great ambassador of the Tuhuoluo came bringing
gifts of two lions and two gazelles and few months later the monk Dade (David)
arrived at the court. Two thousand li (880 km) at the southwest of Fulin there is a
country called Molin, also called Laoposa (Ethiopia). Their people are black and
strong. Nothing grows from the soil; there are diseases in the ground that dry
every single herb in the valleys and in the forests. They feed the horses with rotten
fish and eat dates.”
>>716535
This btw is from the Xintangshu (Updated Annals of the T'ang)
>>716522
>>716497
>>716484
From the Liezhuan (Chapter concerning the practices of Fulin.)
when I lived in Beijing I had a casual conversation with a colleague of mine about Latin (which she thought was English, because she couldn't read either and they looked the same).
She, a very mundane Chinese person, had heard of Rome superficially. And why wouldn't she, it's not like they didn't have Gladiator over there.
But then again, she was just one person out of 1,3 billion.
China and Rome were two awkward schoolgirls in an unspoken and unconsumated lesbian relationship.
>>716535
>Two thousand li (880 km) at the southwest of Fulin there is a
country called Molin, also called Laoposa (Ethiopia). Their people are black and
strong
WE
>>716442
They probably heard of the Republic and confused it with the late habit of murdering the Emperor by his own bodyguards.
buuump
>>712062
saved
Bump, this thread is the shit
How difficult is it to buy a wife from China?
oij
Jackie Chan made an alternate history movie where the Han dynasty interacts with a Roman legion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Blade_%28film%29
Don't know about China but I live in Japan and make side cash giving lectures on Greek and Roman mythology. They don't know the myths but know the Roman names and while they don't know about Venus they know Venus on a Shell for example. My lectures are always a big hit cause it explains and gives context to all these western culture and art things they learned.
>>710364
Greek and roman history isn't really that important worldwide. The love of it is due to Eurocentrism.
>>712062
>>729304
>Eurocentrism
You really love that word
>>710364
>>712062
It's flag of Manchuria not China :/
Even last emperor ruled Manchukuo
this is subtle, but there is difference
KHARBIN JE RUSSIAN
>>727129
Is it any good?
>>727231
Do you tell them that Hercules is protecting their puny gods?
>>730024
No
>>712062
>>712062
A classic
>>712917
Westaboos are everywhere here. Most history majors prolly know better about the west than about China. Sad desu
t. chink
>>729304
The entire world is Eurocentric/Westerncentric.
>>730294
>t. chink
can you tell us about what an average chink knows about western history?
>>730294
probably because its less problematic to discuss the west than "wrong" interpretations of Chinese history.
I remember in 2008 I was still able to browse 4chan in Beijing and the English parts of wikipedia (on taiwan and Tiananmen) weren't censored.
It's probably changed alot since then.
>>730035
Is this some reference I'm not catching?
>>729304
Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Indo-Persian (I know someone will get triggered for joining those two up) and Chinese are arguably the most influential cultures in the world.
If anything, it's a shame most people think only of Islam when imagining everything in between the West and the Far East, and probably of poo in loo (or, outside of 4chan, just general unkeptness) in the case of India.
>>730787
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nio#Hellenistic_influence
A kimono wearing otaku social studies professor and hikikomori was teaching a class on Asian History
'Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Emperor Akihito and accept that that the Japanese are the most highly-evolved human beings that the world has ever known."
At this moment, a sagacious, filial, scholar-gentleman who has scored ahead of 150,000 students in the Civil Service Exams and understood the full extent of the barbarity of those living outside Zhongguo held up a copy of the Nihon Shoki.
"What are the characters written upon the pages of the Nihon Shoki?"
The arrogant professor smirked, tightened his hachimaki, and smugly replied "Kanji, you baka."
"True, Kanji, which loosely translates into "Han characters." To be precise the Nihon Shoki is written in Guwen, which is Classical Chinese script. If the Japanese are indeed perfect human beings then they would have come up with their own culture & civilization as opposed to just borrowing from the Chinese or from anyone else."
The Professor was visibly shaken and dropped his calligraphy brush and copy of CLAMP's Cardcaptor Sakura. He stormed out of the room and tried to commit seppuku like in his animes.
The students applauded with a big "wansui!" and all signed up with the Popular Uprising that day and declared that the scholar-gentleman has the Mandate of Heaven. A dragon named "All Under Heaven" flew into the room and coiled around the Chinese flag and magically turned it yellow. The Analects was read several times, and the Jade Emperor himself showed up and enacted territorial seizures of disputed territories around the country.
The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of complications caused by an erroneous performance of the seppuku ritual and went to Diyu, where he is tried, found guilty, and punished by the Ten Yama Kings of Diyu.
>>732396
10/10
>>731364
>general unkemptness
no. India is full of RAEP
can't wait for murica to declare war to save all indian women.
>>710552
>Medieval
>Roman
>>732396
>>732446
Not as good as this one:
A US Navy supercarrier was teaching a class on Freedom of Navigation, a known imperialist concept.
”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship AirSea Battle and accept that it is the most revolutionary doctrine military affairs has ever known, even greater than the People's War!”
At this moment, a brave, patriotic, PLAN shore battery who had conducted over 1500 test launches and understood the necessity of building new islands and fully supported all military decision made by the Politburo stood up and held up a WU-14.
”How many of these can you shoot down, gwai lo?”
The arrogant professor smirked quite Japanesely and smugly replied “All of them, you coolie peasant.”
”Wrong. Aegis has not even been tested against superior DF-21 ASBM system. The age of the carrier... is over.”
The professor was visibly shaken, and failed to acquire track or unjam her CIWS in time. She sank beneath the waves broadcasting that crocodile SOS. The same SOS American spy planes broadcast over the "reckless" PLAAF pilots (who in fact were only defending their sovereign airspace) when they bravely ram invading imperialist aircraft. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, USS Gerald R. Ford, wished she had pulled herself up by her bootstraps and become more than an obsolete weapons platform. She wished so much that she had a next-generation ASM to sink herself in embarrassment, but her own Navy had failed to deploy one!
The Taiwanese all applauded and accepted unification under one system that day. A panda named "Authoritarian Government" waddled into the room and sat down under the Chinese flag and shed a tear on the CIWS. "The East is Red" was sung several times, and Mao himself showed up and established Chinese hegemony across East Asia.
The professor lost her escorts and was mothballed the next day. She was decommissioned and sold for scrap to help service America's debt to China.
>>732539
They just keep on coming 10/10
>>729326
First time hearing it? It's been around a while, son.
>>731364
In Chinese history text book "四大文明古國"
(The Big 4 Cradle of Civilization) are China,
Egypt, India and Babylon/Mesopotamia.
Only the big 4, no #5 in the book.
>>731364
>>733590
It's sad to see how Egyptian and Assyro-Babylonian died with rise of islam, reduced to minorities in their own countries
Well, AT LEAST Indo-Persian preserved
>>733590
Of course. The Indus River, the Nile, the Tigris-Euphrates and the Yellow River are the cradles of civilization, no one is arguing otherwise.
It's just that by late antiquity, the balance of power had shifted away from Babylon/Mesopotamia due to its instability (both environmental and political due to being in the center of every other culture) into Anatolia and Persia.
Not to mention that Ancient Egypt, Mycenaean Greece, Babylon and the Hittites were part of a coherent interconnected system before the fall of civilization in the bronze age. One that helped shape later Greco-Roman, Persian and Egypt civilizations.
So you could either state the pre-fall civilizations, or the post-fall civilizations, but it is post-fall that the current world begins to take place.
In fact, I'm hesitant about including Egypt, due to the fact that it's not nearly as influential after the bronze age (getting conquered by the new powers that be in the same way Mesopotamia is), but it feels wrong not to include them. But I do recognize it's wrong to include Egypt and not Sumeria/Babylon.
>>732459
>Glorious Eastern Roman Empire
>Not lasting until 1453
>>732539
>The arrogant professor smirked quite Japanesely and smugly replied “All of them, you coolie peasant.”
kek
>>730661
Not him but I personally think it's more of a matter of perspective. If you asked a common peasant about the conquests of Rome and the like he would look at you like you are the one who is retarded. However, if you ask a student that is graduated from well known college then obviously they would know more. In the end, chinese people as a whole do not like learning about thinks that do not pertain to their everyday lives.
>Sorry for bad english, not first language.
>>712062
Kawaii
