Let's settle this shit.
Are they Christian?
>>705791
Yes they are Christian
They believe in Christ, therefore they are Christian.
they are polytheists
>>705799
No more christian than muslims are.
>>705791
No.
what is the definition of christian
>>706272
Muslim don't believe He was the son of God or that he died and was resurrected.
I'd say not in any meaningful way. Belief in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed would be the bare minimum for me. Mormons literally believe in multiple gods.
>>705791
>a man can become god of his own planet if he follows the ten commandments hard enough
>native americans are Jews
>YHWH is an alien
>black people are stained with the sins of mankind
>angels wrote scripture on golden plates
You tell me.
>>706398
Crazy shit, but they sure are nice people.
>>706272
Muslims are Christians.
>>706398
Not categorically different from anything in the OT or NT.
like the beta test for scientology
>>706398
I've got to chuckle at what I assume is an "ordinary" Christian mocking this.
>>705791
Not for the most part, no. They're another case of a man consulting with an angel about a new revelation about a different Jesus.
Accursed.
>>706407
Up to a point, yes. Move to SLC, work for them, attend their temple, and then try to get out.
Then you'll see their true colors.
They tolerate "apostates" about as much as their islamic brothers.
>>706433
That would be a result of you not having a strong foundation for your own worldview.
Being adopted by God into His family is nothing like turning into a fertile planet.
Christians are retarded, yes mormons believe in jesus christ as the son of god. But him and heavenly father are different people. Mormons believe that jesus was an archangel or someshit I can't really explain it. God and Jesus appeared to joseph smith apparently, that's why.
t. mormon heretic
>>705799
^This
We're Christians.
Catholics aren't though.
No, if you add your own asspull scripture to the canon you are no longer Christian. Just like Muslims aren't Christians and Christians aren't Jews.
>>706369
>Belief in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed would be the bare minimum for me
why? that's arbitrary.
>>706492
Yes catholics think there is 3 or 4 gods, yet they label us as polytheists.
We pray to god through jesus, jesus isn't god per-se.
>>706455
Yes I am sure that believing blood magic conducted in ancient Palestine by a Bronze Age war god of the Caananite pantheon means you will live forever in magic land is *totally* different.
What did he mean by this?
>>706369
Not true, there is only one god.
Enjoy being asspained, I might go back to church since catholics rage the fuck out at us all the time. Shit's funny.
>>706504
Jesus is our lord, but god is our king. Some shit like that.
>>706504
If they believe in Christian values and Christ and His death and ressurection yes, they are Christian
If they follow christ. Then they're christian. Regardless if they use coldsteele version
>>706519
Hmmm I am not sure what he is rambling about. God AND Jesus appeared to joseph smith to prove they aren't the same person.
Mormonism is literally islam for white people.
>the entire religion revealed by an angel to some random retard
>polygamy
>no alcohol
>kooky space shit on top of Abrahamic foundation
>considering random shitholes in the middle of buttfuck nowhere sacred just because your prophet lived there
>autismal fasting
>>706547
Mormons believe that angels get bodies too. So that is where the jesus being an angel comes from.
When people die, they are turned into angels, if they are really really good, they get their own worlds.
Some shit like that.
There is also many planets with humans on them and we are the most evil apparently, the other planets have already been saved.
>>706564
So to extrapolate, Jesus was an angel sent to save our world. Mohammad could have been an angel too, nobody is quite sure. We believe that all religions are true, but mormonism is the truest.
Why is this even worth debating when God isn't real?
>>706580
is real, israel... lol
>>705791
For a given value of Christian they can probably be considered Christian, though admittedly that's almost like saying that Christians can be Jews for a given value of Judaism.
They're wrong because their faith is more or less demonstrably false, given that it actually has falsifiable assertions upon which the religion rests and those are false.
>>706618
Care to point out these falsehoods? My mind melts when I try to comprehend catholicism, it doesn't make sense.
It would imply that god jumps into people's bodies all the time, which may be true but I think it means he works through people.
>>706618
What sort of falsifiable assumptions?
>>706618
>>706656
The biggest complaint I hear is that we worship multiple gods which isn't true, we do not worship angels.
The complaints about the book are grounded on the fact some of the dead sea scrolls were mistranslated appearently. But the copies joseph smith got were damaged so he had to fix them to the best of his ability.
Also half the book is missing because baptists burnt it, or something like that, and he didn't have time to retranslate it. That is pretty fishy imo.
>>706398
>a man will tortured forever by a benevolent god unless he follows the ten commandments hard enough
>YHWH isn't an alien
>All people are stained with the sins of mankind
>An old man took a hike and a fiery shrub dictated scripture to him
@706580
not even worth the (You)
>>706498
El is not YHWH
El had children Ba'al, Molech and Asheroth.
YHWH manifested as Jesus.
Two different contenders for God; the one true God, and a demon god of the wicked Canaanites.
>>706504
He meant that Jesus took matters into His own hands, fashioned a whip, and drove them out.
People mistake the Lamb of God for the Lion of Judah. Huge mistake. That was a very small taste of the Lion.
>>706528
They believe God made Jesus, and then Jesus and satan had a contest to see who could come up with the best way to redeem the world.
They believe Jesus is just like them, except further down the road to becoming His own planet.
So while they believe in "Jesus", they have made up their own Jesus, and give him lip service. The real ticket is punched by Joe Smith. Without his signature on your ticket, you don't get into good heaven. Just average heaven.
>>706695
Pretty sure the burning bush was marijuana. Joseph smith was a book junky so he collected a lot of old middle eastern scriptures during his time and tried to translate them.
The pearl of great price/ Doctrine And Covenants = dead sea scrolls but I'm not sure.
>>706735
The name of god is Yaewah or Elohim, they are the same person.
>>706759
This isn't true, joe smith is just some prophet dude, anyone can be a prophet if they find the keys to heaven. That's why there is still mormon prophets today.
They're heretics
>>706746
>People mistake the Lamb of God for the Lion of Judah. Huge mistake. That was a very small taste of the Lion.
>I and the Father are One.
>>706774
I would say that mormonism is all religions rolled into one with a lemon twist.
I don't know where you are getting this satan worship shit from. Satan and Lucifer are the same person, and he is an angel, as I said we don't worship angels.
>>706640
It only makes sense if you assume that only members in good standing of the Roman Catholic Church go to heaven.
i.e., it's a cult.
>>706765
YHWH/Elohim is not El.
El is the main god of the wicked and evil and perverse canaanites, and had children Ba'al, Molech and Asheroth.
YHWH is Jesus.
>>706770
If you're a Mormon, and you don't have a certificate signed by Joseph Smith, you do not get into the highest heaven.
(You actually die and go to hell, but I'm only considering their theology, not reality.)
Just like Catholicism and Islam, it's a works based faith where you earn your salvation by performing the rites and rituals of the "church".
>>706789
That could be interpreted many ways, humanity is one, Buddhists are one, I am my fathers son, we are one. Bla bla bla.
>>706789
Jesus is both the Lamb of God and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.
Way to miss the point completely.
He is not coming back as the Lamb.
>>706804
Why wouldn't catholics go to heaven? Everyone goes to heaven if they are good, religion isn't a factor.
>>706825
Membership in the Catholic church is not salvation.
By your standards, Jesus would be alone in heaven with the angels, as there are no good people.
Not one.
>>706824
I hate to break it to you but he's dead, lad. He's not coming back at all.
>>706452
So they'll kill apostates, or at least they'll be in favor of killing apostates?
>>706810
Elohim is god, el isn't
>>706817
Pure fantasy, we have patriarchs and prophets, we believe that we all descended from da jews. When people die, sometimes they will tell you which heaven they go to, there is three heavens.
Nobody goes to hell, they go to spiritual prison and if they turn away from christ they are cast into outer darkness, which means to be cast out from the sight of god. Pretty vague...
There is only three unforgivable sins and that is murder and rape, and denying christ.
>>706834
You don't need to worship jesus to go to heaven, that's why god sent the muslims their own prophet / angels.
If I shot you off and you landed on mars with no memory, how would you be saved?
>>706656
Jewish proto-indians.
>>706845
Fuck I can't type sorry, there is three degrees of glory, or three heavens.
You cannot deny christ unless you have perfect knowledge of him. So yes all the hadjis and jungle people go to heaven as well.
>>706867
Define perfect knowledge.
Does it have to be knowledge that you could possibly know is correct?
If presented with four mutually exclusive, but equally convincing "truths" about Jesus would you remain unsaved if you chose the wrong one?
In short: Is perfect knowledge anything short of divine revelation?
>>706877
You have to have the keys to heaven or jesus has to visit you. Basically if you live your life as a good person you will attain the lowest heaven. But people from the higher heavens can visit you and help you get to the highest heaven.
Your earthly body is just a small point in the journey, after you die the angels will teach you.
Perfect knowledge would be spiritual prison, or revelation yes.
>>706497
No, Catholics believe in one God. I think I would know.. because that is exactly what they believe and what I was raised in.
>>706492
Catholics are Christian...
>>706925
Catholics are the only Christians.
>>706923
Catholics worship angels and saints seems like blasphemy bro.
>>706838
What is this based on, again?
Here's you, in the bible:
2 Peter 3
knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”
That's you, and you're evidence we're living in the last days of this Age.
>>706843
They're not above murder, no.
No, even Muslims are more orthodox than Mormons.
>>706845
Correct. Elohim is the Creator; El is the demon god of the wicked, perverse and evil Canaanites.
Incorrect as to everything else.
>>706845
Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.
This is from Brigham Young. So, either learn your own cult teachings, or maybe stop lying about them on the internet.
>>706944
I think I would know what the church teaches since I was born in it, and I'm surrounded by crazy mormons.
The patriarch is like a low-tier prophet, he can tell us our futures.
The father of the family is a patriarch as well, he can be inspired or receive revelation.
>>706852
Your hypothetical is beyond absurd.
People who do not have the Holy Spirit in them do not live forever. They are born dead, live their dead lives, and then face the second death that we call hell.
If I had never heard about Jesus, and did not deduce Him on my own, or at least declare myself to be on the side of whomever made the universe, I would be lost.
Most people are lost.
Everyone deserves condemnation for their acts, and no one deserves salvation.
>>706923
So does the devil.
Is he saved?
>>706949
This seems like R-LDS doctrine, I am from the LDS church, not it's offshoots.
There is several types of mormons, don't confuse them please.
I would say that joe smith is an angel now, anything beyond that is speculation / heresy.
>>706944
Elohim just means "god", which is a title, not any specific deity. God's proper name is YHWH.
>>706955
I'm not catholic though, everyone is resurrected at the last days, they will be judged, and there will be a war between good and evil. Led by michael and lucifer.
>>706953
Why would people in cults be the most knowledgeable about their cult?
Wouldn't knowing you were in a cult drive you out?
>>706961
It's a direct quote from Brigham Young.
Brigham Young, October 9, 1859
Intelligence, Etc.
Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG,
delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91
>>706967
I don't go to church because I know more about the scriptures and the church than most elders and high elders, yet I am only a priest.
>>706964
Yes and no. Elohim, a plural word used in the singular sense in Hebrew, a reflection on the trinity, does mean Creator.
YHWH is not God's name. It's a placeholder.
We do not know God's true name, or even Jesus' true name, as He gave Himself a new name nobody, not even the Father, knows.
YHWH translates not so much to I Am, a statement of eternal being, but it's in the future tense. I Will Be What I Will Be.
You cannot limit God by naming Him. You don't know His name.
>>706969
I don't think so, as I said you do not need to worship jesus or joeseph smith to go to heaven. You will be taught that stuff by angels in spiritual prison, or limbo as the catholics call it.
>>706966
That war will last seconds. Michael will stand up, and satan will be bound in the pit for a thousand years.
Everyone will be resurrected.
Some to glory and eternal life in heaven, and some to shame and destruction in hellfire. you didn't think your current body could withstand burning sulfur, did you?
>>706937
>knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”
That was written to prove that THEN (two thousand years ago) was the last age (because some Christians began to doubt Jesus was coming back).
And it has been used in EVERY age in all two thousand years since to prove that THEN was the last age.
Vague nonsense for suckers and suckers will still be claiming it applies to THEIR age in two hundred years time.
It has as much validity as Nostradamus or an Astrology column.
It is deliberately written so that anyone in any historical period can think "Holy Shit Dat Is Rite Now Innit!!!"
>>706970
The scriptures are the 66 books of the bible, not the Book of Mormon.
Drop out of their society. They're doomed.
>>706984
I have seen some shit, that's for sure.
>>706497
>jesus isn't god per-se.
This really makes you not Christian. Christians believe Jesus is God.
>>706978
>you do not need to worship jesus
You did say that, however, it is false.
If you do not confess with your tongue that Jesus is Lord, and do not believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you are unfit for the Kingdom of God.
You won't make it.
>>706989
I agree that the bible is very holy, but I don't think it is the only scripture.
I don't like mormons because they don't know anything about their own church, where I have tried to study it to the best of my ability.
>>706986
Nope. It's you. You have forgotten the Creation, believing instead that the earth is billions of years old. You have forgotten the Flood, thinking that the earth was shaped incrementally by minute forces acting over eons.
And you mock the believers for knowing that there is a Second Coming, and that Second Coming is just as sure as the first.
It's you. You're the scoffer. And in place of what you mock, you have nothing.
>>706997
All I needed to know was the Meadows Massacre.
>>707005
Yes, you can. The Holy Spirit can, and does, tell everybody that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
If you agree with the Holy Spirit, He lives within you.
If you say He is lying, you have committed the unpardonable sin.
>>705791
It's all semantics. They're Christian according to themselves, and an especially crazy sect of Christian to most seculars, but a lot of other Christian sects exclude them as Christians.
>>707006
That makes me very angry as well, but those people are going to hell because they murdered for profit. Ontop of that they murdered other mormons for heresy which is not tolerable.
You can only kill to defend yourself or your family.
>>707005
>Jesus and God are different people.
One God, manifesting Himself in three ways so that you might know Him. From His perspective, it is quite clear that He is One God.
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Spirit is God.
There is One God.
If you can't understand the trinity, you can at least apprehend its existence.
Jesus is just as much God as though He were not man, and just as much man as though He were not God.
>>707010
That's true, I suppose you are right.
>>706976
What do you mean "true name"? God was before there were any tongues or lips.
>>707002
Sorry mate, but I have no way of dirrentiating this from a troll post, so this is the only *you* that you will get from me.
Jesus, didn't come back and you should deal with that.
>>707015
Well, I the way it's explained to us is that Jesus is the highest angel even above michael, but he isn't god.
The holy ghost is a messenger angel.
We believe in the trinity as well, but we explain it differently.
>>706492
We invented Christian. Proddies best step off.
>>706575
>we believe that all religions are true
That's retarded. A lot of religious doctrine is completely irreconcilable.
>>707044
True but I think Islam and Judaism are true, just not the whole truth.
>>706695
>all people are stained with the sins of mankind
This is true though even from a moral secular perspective.
>>705791
No they aren't even a religion.
Anyways, it's probably not good to be taught about our church by some inactive heretic. So I'll leave you with a prayer.
Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for this beautiful day, please bless our Christian brothers and keep them safe, that no harm or accidents will come to them. Please bless them that the holy ghost will carry them for a time and release them when they have learned what they need to know. And fill them with peace. I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
>>707084
Thank you for your incantation to a higher power. Maybe you will cast a spell or sacrifice a goat to help those heretic Mormons who have a slightly different take on mythology and metaphysics to you.
>>707002
The only real regret I have about the oblivion that awaits us all is that self-righteous dumbasses like this goon won't have the opportunity to appreciate just how BTFO he really was.
>>707022
Elohim means Creator. It's a title. God is our translation of that title. It's not a name.
YHWH is not a name. "I Am" is not a name. It's a declaration of existence. Moses asked God for a name so he could tell people who sent him. God said "Tell them 'I Am' sent you."
By my favorite Hebrew scholar, Aaron Budjen, YHWH is actually in future tense, and means "I Am" in the future tense; "I Will Be What I Will Be."
It's a declaration from God that He is without limits. Not a name. He'll tell His children His name, in due time. Not now.
(Yahway and Jehovah are just ill considered attempts to pronounce YHWH.)
>>707023
True. The Second Coming has not happened yet. Easy way to tell that is that the sun is not dark, and the moon is still visible.
However, you said He is never coming back, which is false.
>>707024
Yes, they are all carefully crafted lies to keep you away from Jesus, Who is God, and to stop you from being resurrected by the Holy Spirit, Who is God.
I suggest you stop listening to them.
>>707089
No wonder he considered that work to be "stubble" and quit writing it before he died.
>>707105
You obviously have no proof, or evidence, or even inclination that oblivion awaits you.
But rest assured that your wish to have nothing to do with the love of God will be respected.
>>706937
if you believe that you may want to become jehovahs witness because thats what you sound like
Theologically speaking, it is observable that in order for you to be a Christian, you must accept Christ as your savior. For Christ to be your savior and the savior alone.
The question then becomes, really, to what role does Joseph Smith play in Mormon canon?
>>707002
Like how Protestants had failed twice with their prophecies
Remember THE GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT yeah that would would be a red flag for you
>>706934
bait
>>706735
This is some next-level shit.
>>705791
No. They hold several beliefs that conflict with core tenets of Christianity.
>>707324
If I believe the bible is true, I should then become a JW, who think that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
Is that your proposition?
>>707386
That's not a christian prophecy. Christian prophecies are in the bible.
That's just the Harold Camping of their day. Wolves, in sheep's clothing.
You don't have to worry about the things of God. You just stick to your cult, see how that works out for you.
>>705791
They are Non-Trinitarian Christians.
>>707432
They are Non-Trinitarian, Non-Jesus-is-God, Non-One-Heaven-and-One-Hell religious people.
>>706492
Gr8 b8 m8
>>707463
>people
Whoah, slow your roll there, fella.
>>706508
A Christian wouldn't speak in the way that you do. Please be more respectful, our similarities are greater than our differences.
>>707527
I've heard some of the foulest language of pure hatred from Christians plenty of times.
>>706508
Confirmed for not knowing your own retarded religion.
Yes but they definitely deserve to be considered their own branch and not just a protestant sect. This is fora couple of reasons. The return of prophetic authority, the creation of another testament, the creation of a godhead which when taken with the belief of exaltation is neither Unitarian nor Trinitarian, etc.
However even with that shit they share a lot with 19th american Protestantism. The refusal of infant baptism, the disdain for alcohol and tobacco, the literalist interpretations of scripture, the disdain for traditional Catholic rites, the importance of the holy spirit in individual as well as spiritual life, the belief that they were living in the latter days of earth.
Hell the RLDS or church of Christ as they are now know barely even have any of the weird shit anymore.
As a catholic, I understand that it comes across as hypocritical to criticise a system of beliefs that are illogical to me, but c'mon, at least catholics admit that most of the bible is just nonsense with some good analogies of how to live your life, has any one tried reading the book of mormon? It's literally batshit crazy, it doesn't even make grammatical sense, never mind anything else.
Also I find it hilarious whenever someone points out a great flaw in the book of mormon they come out with the most bullshit excuse for why it seems retarded:
>The complaints about the book are grounded on the fact some of the dead sea scrolls were mistranslated appearently. But the copies joseph smith got were damaged so he had to fix them to the best of his ability.
fucking what?
>>707010
But it's only unpardonable if you never accept Him right?
I used to go to church but not believe it, but I eventually accepted him and was baptized in the Holy Spirit, so I'm fine now right?
Idk man, this stuff just freaks me out, and different people say it means different things
So according to y'all, who is without a doubt going to hell?
Leave your faith as reference.
>>707839
Nobody.
t. Atheist
>>707839
How should I know?
Orthodox Christian
Utahn here
No, they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, and that when we die (if we're really good) we'll also be God for our own universe and have tons of bitches to make tons of Jesuses with.
It's no more "christian" than Scientology
>>707839
Nobody can know that except God.
Roman Catholic
>>707851
As a Catholic you're wrong, I can die and then decide for myself to turn away from God and go to hell. Therefore, I definitely know that I'm going to hell.
>>707842
Doesn't your faith distinguish between those that believe (and are thus rewarded after life) and those who do not (who are hence punished)?
Forgive if I'm wrong, I'm not well versed in the inner Christian beliefs.
>>707864
Rewarded for being good and punished for being bad in the afterlife? Are you sure you aren't a Protestant?
>>707839
Only 144,000 elect will be in heaven.
For all the other billions, Hell.
Church of the Great God
Joseph Smith was con artist, womanizer, and control freak.
Like everyone other CULT leader. The reason it spreads is that mormons breed like spics and don't teach their kids birth control also like spics
>>706504
1911's are fucking awesome
>>707869
I'm on the fence. I would like to think that a benevolent and merciful God exists, but at the same time don't go putting all my eggs in one basket. Agnostic - theist you could say, I dont have any background in Christianity and don't much know about the differences between the sects.
>>707901
One thing many Catholics here forget (I just joined this thread late unfortunately) that we DO practice Communal Salvation
"Look not on our sins but the faith of your church." This means that simply being a faithful member of the Catholic church will guarantee your salvation, the Protestants would rather have God evaluate you as an individual to determine if you are "worthy" of eternal salvation
>>707725
The book of Abraham to me seems to show that Smith was just pulling shit out of his ass.
But then again the BoM has a native american apostle named Timothy.
>>707846
They also used to believe that God was actually Adam but through the process of exaltation became divine. But it fell out of favor when Brigham Young died, though it was removed completely till 1978. Now they just believe Adam is the archangel Michael.
>>707927
Where do people get these whacky ass ideas?
>>707527
What similarity is there between light and dark?
>>707825
That's what unpardonable means. Never accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Once you have done this, your transformation is permanent and eternal.
To test yourself, say out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead.
If you are saved, you can do this trivially. If not, it is impossible.
>>707926
So by that logic, even someone who would be seen as a "bad" person could achieve salvation just by being a faithful catholic? Doesn't that seem a bit convenient for the sinner?
>>707990
anon would a "bad" person REALLY be a FAITHFUL Catholic? As long as you truly regret being bad you're golden
>>707839
Everyone on the broad road to destruction.
Everyone who thinks they're good enough to get into heaven without Jesus.
Everyone who thinks Jesus will save everybody, and don't bother to get saved.
Everyone who is Against Jesus.
Everyone who chooses to be apart from God forever.
Everybody who doesn't want to know God, or to be a part of His family.
BAYEC
>>707982
Get that white and delightful ass out of here. Laminates, descendants of Cain, and less valiant spirits only.
>>707990
>>707992
One additional comment, you could argue a sinful human being ever being admitted into Heaven is also pretty convenient, when Jesus just started forgiving people left and right for their sins for nothing more than "just don't do that bad thing again ok" is also pretty convenient.
The term convenient would imply there's some sort of bargaining here, when God's love is infinite and eternal, by the way Lucifer would agree with you that this is awfully convenient for the sinner
>>707864
m8, hell doesn't have anything to do with punishment in Orthodox Christianity. It's not even separation from God
https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/st-isaac-the-syrian-the-hellish-scourge-of-divine-love/
When God *does* punish people, it is because he loves them (Hebrews 12:6, Proverbs 3:12 )
>>707851
That is what your church teaches you so that you stay a good little boy and obey them your entire life, to your last breath.
1 John 5
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that
you
may
know
that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
The Roman church cannot save you.
The Roman church has not saved you.
The Roman church does not want you to be saved.
The Roman church is the most evil institution on earth.
Wake up.
Get out.
>>707882
What a horrific reading of Revelation.
>>707926
Daily Reminder that there is no communal salvation in the bible.
And that communal salvation in the Whore of Babylon is damnation.
>>707990
No, they'd still be damned.
Being a catholic means nothing to God.
>>708029
>le sola scriptura maymay
t. Martin Luther
>>708004
>God only punishes people because he loves them
>God loves everyone
Well time to kinkshame a deity.
>>708021
The Greek word used here, translated as "know", is not gnosis. It's this: http://biblehub.com/greek/1492.htm
We are saved through faith, not gnosis.
>>708039
Daily Reminder that Martin Luther was a Catholic friar until the day he died.
And a vicious anti-semite.
>>708045
God punishes those he loves in order to correct them. Those who are not saved, he is in fact much less likely to punish, since it would not do any good.
>>708070
Compare Luther with the Catholic Church
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicut_Judaeis
>>708045
Orthodox and Catholic are two legs of the same statue, said statue set for demolition by Jesus.
>>708064
Not sure how you can screw up such a straight forward verse.
We are saved by grace.
We can know we are saved by grace.
I'll go you one further. I have epignosis of my own salvation.
>>708056
Pretty much.
Sorry if it sounds stupid, as I mentioned, I have no background in Christianity and am simply trying to learn about each sect and their take on one another.
>>708075
Catholics -> Luther -> Hitler -> Holocaust.
In Mein Kampf, ghost written by a Jesuit, Hitler refers to Luther many times, and states that he is just doing the work of the Catholic church over the ages: killing all the Jews.
The Holocaust isn't even the worst thing the Vatican has ever done. Top 10, but not the worst.
>>708097
People don't believe the catholics because the catholics lie.
There are no good people.
Everyone deserves to go to hell.
Everyone who does not get what they deserve owes Jesus a debt they can never repay.
And yes. For centuries, the catholics sold people entrance into heaven. At least that was what the sucker thought he was buying. And from that money, viola! The Vatican.
>>708097
I am unfamiliar with Coptic and Orthodox faiths but the traditions in Catholicism throughout history are marked by politics first and foremost unlike Orthodox which tries and stay the same without changing. The indulgences and the justification of the existence of Purgatory were made during a time when the Papacy was constantly in need of mercenaries to protect themselves from raiders and anti-popes. Make of that what you will, remember it was Jesus that broke tradition by admitting Paul (a non-jew) into the Catholic faith, is it so wrong then go beyond Sola Scriptura?
>>708106
If you don't know what you're talking about try to post less often
>>708086
>We can know we are saved by grace.
There were many who "knew" they were saved who committed all sorts of unspeakable crimes. They were haughty and deluded. It is by always keeping our salvation in question that we remain in perpetual prayer and humility. As the Orthodox say, "All others will be saved, I alone will be condemned." Your salvation is never certain unless you are a Calvinist. You cannot just go through your life being wicked, and then say, it does not matter because I am, saved! And be sure, we ALL go through our lives being wicked, and only God's mercy can help us, and his mercy is never something we are entitled to or sure of having. One baptism forgives all your past transgressions, but your future ones require constant repentance
>>708098
>refers to Luther many times
>states that he is just doing the work of the Catholic church
Dude what.
>>708124
>Paul (a non-jew)
DUDE WEED LMAO
Are you false-flagging against the Church?
>>708106
That's a pretty cynical take on things anon. I would be inclined to agree with you that every person carries with them a weight (call it sin or whatever) that could cause them to do things society would deem "bad", but everyone being punished for that (especially when it's claimed that God was infact the one who gave us this burden) is a bit unfair.
>>708124
This takes me back to my original point, if Catholicism has and is in fact changing to suit the needs of MAN in whatever age we happen to be in, doesn't that seem a bit convenient? Who are we to determine wether we should change what God put in place thousands of years ago because it doesn't match what we think today? Also Jesus breaking tradition is different because isn't Jesus actually an embodiment of God and thus has authority to do such a thing?
>>708152
No you're right I'm really tired, Paul was a jew, however the roman soldier wasn't, and Paul later would convert non-jews
thanks for catching that anon that was pretty embarrassing
>>708171
Could you argue through the intercession of the holy spirit that the Papacy/Bishops could be inspired by the Holy Spirit to invoke tradition married with scripture to convert pagan barbarians? This was very much the case (Halloween, Christmas)
>>708183
>This was very much the case (Halloween, Christmas)
I don't know anything about Halloween, but Christmas, the oldest accounts, taken from Christian letters, place Christ’s conception on the same date he died, which is late March. But there is also a Biblical argument for Christ being born on the December 25th. See Part 5 of On the Day of the Birth of Our Savior Jesus Christ, by Saint John Chrysostom: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2014/12/on-day-of-birth-of-our-savior-jesus.html If you would like to see more ancient and modern arguments corraborating that date, scroll down to “Christmas Origins and Paganism” here: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/12/christmas-resource-page.html As for Easter, while it is true that Easter in the West has blended with blatantly pagan celebrations, in Orthodox Christianity, the holiday has always been referred to as “Pascha” (Ēostre is, after all, a Germanic goddess, so calling the holiday that would be alien in Greece, Byzantium, Russia, Ethiopia, Egypt, etc.), which is the Greek word for Passover, and it never had any of the pagan trappings.
As informative as the Catholic/Orthodox vs Protestant fight I'm going to talk about exmo stuff now.
>be eight years old in primary Sunday school class
>they're teaching us about Noah
>ask why everyone had to be drowned to death instead of a plague
>primary teacher tells me it was so the earth could be baptized and in the lds church you have to be completely submerged in water for it count.
>remember this shit years later after I had left the church
>wonder if was just some nonsense
>look it up
>it is actually doctrine
>mfw
>>708183
That would have to be answered while taking into account how Popes/Bishops are put in place. Sure there's an election process and the candidate has to have upstanding character, but hasn't the Pope always mainly appointed Bishops himself? That, and also realizing that human tendency is not for the betterment of all man, rather, the betterment of himself and his clan, could lead one to reason that without any measurable proof for "intercession of the Holy Spirit" many factions could have entered the Church envoked these changes of tradition to advance a different agenda. The Crusades could be used as an example of this. I'm not asserting that the Church is wrong but how could all these people in history claim to have divine inspiration as you say, when they are so intertwined with the affairs and rivalries of simple men?
>>706492
>>705791
Who cares, all Christians are Jews
>>706398
Alright, so less theological debate and a little more historical talk. How exactly has Mormonism survived for so long? You'd think such a small sect would be suffering encroachment from other religions and dwindling numbers as believers fall off, especially in this day in age, yet they still seem to continue on, even if converts are few. What's the deal with that?
>>708794
They're very isolated
Utah, Idaho
Not a lot of culture going on there
I don't know how it could flourish in other places though
>>706986
What about petrus Romanus?
Mormonism is pretty crazy. I was born into it, but left. Joseph Smith was a con man, and him being one is the reason I exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Hyde#Family_life
I'm descended from that guys 7th wife.
>>708794
Sitting in the middle of nowhere lets your retarded movement live significantly longer than normal.
>http://strawpoll.me/6840979
>ctrl + f "Holy Trinity:
>0 answers
Mormons reject one of the most important tenants of Christianity, rendering themselves as polytheists, i.e. pure heretics, meaning they are not Christians. No more than any faggot out their that says "I enjoy the teachings of Christ, but I don't really believe in his divinity" bullshit.
>mormons
>christians
>>709334
▲
▲ ▲
>he believes on 3 gods
>>709548
I'm usually pretty tolerant of alternative lifestyles, but for some reason I just can't fucking stand furfags and their faggot fucking fur suits.
Yes I mad
Christian fanfic.
Even if their theology posits the existence of many gods, and claims that man has the potential to attain godhood, Mormons only <worship> one God.
They believe—although it's vague, speculative, and not widely discussed—that man is one type of being within one type of world- and Plan of Salvation-model. Man will be able to create his own world and salvation-model once he is exhalted. God went through a similar process, by which he became an exhalted being; then he was able to act as Creator.
The purpose of multiple worlds, with multiple creators, would be to carry out what Mormons believe is most essential: that spirit intelligences gain bodies, and progress along a sin- and suffering-filled path which gives them an understanding of right and wrong.
According to Mormon theology, we consented to Heavenly Father's plan before we came to earth—in the Pre-Existence—so that our existence here is the ultimate affirmation of free will and free acceptance of this divine struggle, even if our pre-earth memory is shrouded by a "veil." We are necessarily ignorant of our pre-mortal state; otherwise, this life would not be the trial which it is designed to be.
Our basic purpose here, according to the Mormon/LDS worldview, is to gain bodies which may later be perfected, and to acquire an understanding of right and wrong—essentially to do what is necessary for total unity with Heavenly Father and our family members (to which we may be eternally sealed) in the highest degree of Heaven: the Celestial Kingdom.
Is this Christianity? Maybe, maybe not.
>>710076
Didn't know there was an unironic Mormon on /his/.
>>705799
>James 2:19
>>706497
>Jesus is not God
Heresy.
>>710433
look up who the three magi were and then read the Buddhism thread.
>>708331
No Christians are Jews. No Jews who become Christians are Jews.
>>708148
For centuries, the catholic church has attempted to kill all of the Jews on earth. Hitler picked up that mantle and was determined to do it faster and better than his church had done for ages.
When I say the Vatican is evil, I do not mean that it is misguided. It is evil.
>>708124
There are no good people.
Only God is good.
Maybe read more? Pay attention more?
>>708144
Your salvation is not certain because you are not saved.
Because you are not saved, you do not know that salvation is permanent and eternal.
Not being saved has brought you to question whether anyone can know if they are saved. The answer is yes. I am saved. My family is saved. John wrote of how you can know you're saved.
Do this, and you WILL be saved.
ALL who call on the name of the Lord WILL be saved.
Your church ingrained this insecurity into you because they do not want you to leave them. They want you to rely upon them for your salvation. They don't have salvation to offer you. They don't have justification to offer you. They don't have sanctification to offer you. They don't have glorification to offer you.
All they can offer you, and what you are receiving from them, is a system of bondage.
You are not free.
>>708171
People are punished for not believing Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
All of the rest of their sins were forgiven them at the cross.
>>708183
The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the Vatican at all. So no. And pagan Rome became Catholic Rome without a hitch.
Jesus said of the Pharisees that they would cross the world to gain one convert, but that in the end, that convert would be twice the scion of hell as he was before.
Goes double for the Catholics.
>>708208
Jesus was not born on Saturnalia, the 25th of December.
Jesus was born in the second week of September, likely on the feast of tabernacles.
>>708794
It's a little odd that "latter days" is now almost 200 years.
People have deep needs for Love, Acceptance, Meaning and Purpose. To the mormons, the church provides these things. They just don't satisfy. They take the place of God fulfilling them, as intended.
>>710076
It isn't. At all.
>>710501
The magi (not three) were Parthians, leftovers from the days when Daniel ruled the College of the Magi in Babylon/Persia 600 years prior.
It's likely that, since Daniel knew when the Messiah would be "cut off", he left not only instructions, and the sign of the star to look for, but the gifts as well.
And as usual, Christianity has nothing to do with Buddhism.
>>710535
This
It's Stockholm syndrome
The Catholic church is good! It dindu nuffin!
Depends on if you think heretics are christian. I personally don't.
>>710628
>Says the condemned papist.
>>705791
Depends on who you ask.
If they do not believe in a trinity then they are not Christian. (Catholicism/Orthodoxy)
If they believe in Christ then they are Christian. (Protestantism)
When you get deep into Christian theology/dogma then no - they are not Christian.
>>710709
>If they believe in Christ then they are Christian. (Protestantism)
Are you on any prescription medication?
>>706297
What does "son of god" mean? Aren't all people "god's children"?
Say what you want about Islam, but at least it makes sense. Christianity is utter gobbledygook when you actually think about it.
>>706547
This has never occurred to me, but shit that makes a lot of sense.
>>710709
>If they believe in Christ then they are Christian.
does that meme muslims are christians?
>>710781
>Christianity is utter gobbledygook when you actually think about it
No, it actually isn't
Islam on the other hand makes absolutely no sense, as this short video clearly explains
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v2_0Z62-GO8
>>710781
Islam makes zero sense. It contradicts eyewitness records 600 years later on the word of an angel.
Satan is an angel.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, and no, not everyone is a child of God. Most people are children of the devil.
You have to ask God to be adopted into His family to be one of His children.
Oh shit. Thanks theistards, I needed a good laugh.
Watching you guys argue which made up stories are the true made up stories really hit the spot.
>>711063
You're welcome. Enjoy your nothing.
I read this thread and I came to the conclusion that those who actually believe in God, Jesus or whatever is a Moronist.
>>711103
HAHA!!
>Moronist
Good one sir!!
>>711068
Trust me, I was raised catholic, went to catholic school. I understand the temptation to think your book is the one. It's so much simpler.
Unfortunately one of the classes I attended in catholic school was World Religion. After learning about many different religions from different cultures I couldn't come up with a good reason that my religion was any more right than another religion. That was the beginning of the end for me.
>>711125
>raised catholic
There's your problem right there friend
Most people I know who were raised Catholic believe in nothing because their fraud of a church beat the spirituality out of them
>>711125
Yes, I quite understand. You were born dead, stayed dead, are dead, and have no interest in becoming a living being.
I took that class before you were born, and made my professor change fields.
>>711145
>beat the spirituality out of them
It's the opposite, really.
The main problem is the Church's absolute and total inability to properly catechise it's flock.
>>711166
More tyranny! More totalitarianism! More worship of the pope! That's what we need! More control over us!
>>711177
Did you forget to take your meds today, or something?
>>711145
>>711156
You guys are so sure. It's beautiful.
Learn me then, why is your religion the one? Because your mammy and pappy told you so?
I do agree with you on one point though, many people I know who were raised catholic are no longer religious. Possibly because catholics have a long history of accepting logic and fact where as many other religions just ban or ignore anything that may infringe on their dogma.
>>711189
I wasn't raised religious
Catholocism is false Christianity because Christianity is all about believing in Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins as the way to salvation
Catholocism seems to think that good works can get you into heaven, they can't
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
All non-Jewish Abrahamic religions are just here heretical versions of Judaism.
>>711225
Wow that quote from your made up book really proved a point!!
You are the true follower of your false god. Congratulations
>>711544
Thanks man
God bless
>>711180
Sorry, I was rooting for Catholicism. It couldn't be natural.
>>711189
Because I know the Beast, and the Whore, and Mystery Babylon. Papists will say they are not the False Prophet worshiping heathens that they are, yet they cannot point out any other candidates for Mystery Babylon, the Whore of Babylon, the False Prophet, or the Beast.
These things are properly in the bible, and therefore true.
>>711225
James 2:24-26
>Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
>Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
>For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
>>705791
As Christian as Orthodox Russians are.
Which is to say, not at all.
Same goes for Protestants except for Episcopalians. Anglicans don't count since a hundred years ago.
Also, Catholics from the East coast aren't Christian, either.
>>711634
Logic fail. You can't cite your faith to prove your faith.
I guess I should have seen it coming
>>711650
Are you serious? The bible is my faith?
Do you realize the bible was written over 1900 years ago?
How old do you think I am?
>>711644
Yes, many of the lost and damned believe that they can work their way into heaven, mostly because they have no idea what James is talking about.
"Faith without works" is not "Faith in the risen Christ Jesus without works".
>>706995
Mormons started out as lunatics. They have since ret-conned a lot of their stupidity. (I am someone else btw.) I don't mean to say that you are wrong, but keep in mind Mormons are today what proto-Christians were going at in the 100s A.D. probably due to all their historical revisionism.
>>711657
Yeah, Christianity is your faith. The bible defines Christianity.
No one else believes in that hokey old book. Why would I accept you yammering about:
>the Beast, and the Whore, and Mystery Babylon
as proof that your religion is the one true religion?
Every religion can quote their own texts to "prove" their righteousness.
>>711189
Because I will genocide you until only Catholics remain, just as did my ancestors and theirs before!
t. mexican
>>710902
Protestants probably would say yes
>>711696
I hope so. I'd hate for all of those nice people to be lost.
>>711713
Does it matter?
Does it matter if nobody believes it?
>>712317
Are you actually retarded?
Christians believe Jesus was the son of God and died and was resurrected for our sins
Muslims believe none of that so they're not Christian
Nice b8 tho
>>711225
That's not true. The Catholic Church does not teach that one can be saved through good works. We are saved by the unearned gift of God's grace.
