What does /his/ think of the Qing dynasty?
I think the Qing dynasty is really interesting. I've been taking a grad seminar with a Chinese history expert and we've spent a good amount of time on them, mostly on the McCartney mission, comparative global history, and Qing governance in SW China.
Just finished reading The Great Divergence a week ago and I'm curious about /his/'s reaction to the sort of exacting cliometric history Pomeranz uses to build his argument that the Qing dynasty was not inherently less disposed towards industrializing, but failed to do so because of its coal deposits and lack of colonial peripheries (in really reduced terms). Do ya'll think Qing China could have equalled Great Britain if they had been more interested in acquiring overseas markets and that they were actually a very dynamic people, or do you guys think that the letter form the Qianlong emperor where he rejects western technology wholesale is a reflection of cultural stagnancy in the Qing empire at the time?
Europe's favorite punching ball
How do you pronounce Qing /his/?
"Chin" or "Queen"?
"Chin" here
Han Chinese here. Fuck the Manchus. Even Kublai Khan was better than them.
>>77591
Like "king", retard
I've seen some Jet Li movies.
>>77591
It's Ching you Mongoloid Manchu. Qin and Qing are not the same thing.
>>77591
ching
Crippled China, to be honest. Chinks went from wearing really cool traditional Han clothes to wearing fucked up queue hairstyles and gay ass button up shit that poor ass steppe niggers invented.
>>77454
>tfw ethnic Manchu
>tfw Qing destroyed our homeland and nation through ruling China.
Fuck the Qing.
What are some good books about the manchurians? ive always been fascinated by them
manchu scum
huaxia 4 lyf
>>77613
WE
ĐÔNG Á BỆNH PHU
>>77741
pong
>>77780
Underrated
>>77543
>Do ya'll think Qing China could have equalled Great Britain if they had been more interested in acquiring overseas markets
I mean, you're changing the nature of their society if by doing that. They viewed themselves as the best and not needed to acquire more territory to prove their greatness. That sort of shock only came to them fully when it was far too late.
But there's a good chance that if they had pressed to expand more it would have forced them to innovate.
I'm still not totally convinced they however. Their corruption problem seems to me (based on a fairly light amount of studying, but eh) to be nearly endemic.
What they really needed was to flush out most of the bureaucrats and start over. It isn't as though there weren't a number of Chinese officials who understood that they needed to modernize in various ways, but they struggled to get anything done.
>>77826
Interesting, I'm actually partially inclined to agree with you that the Qing bureaucracy was a major reason they failed to "modernize". McCartney blamed the failure of the first British embassy on intransigent officials. Have you ever read Cherishing Men from Afar?
>>77845
I come from one of these boards
Guess which one
>>77845
what about /sci/'s daily 1+2+3+4... = -1/12?
4chan is for shitposting during intelligent conversation
>>77845
If you want to be an asspained little no-fun cunt, here is a website that you might find pleasant
http://www.reddit.com
>>77654
How does it feel to not have a country of your own, Manchu nigger?
I bet it feels fucking bad to be a tiny minority in a massive country, and not have a country of your own where you can speak the Manchu language, enjoy Manchu culture, go on dates with pure-blooded Manchu cuties, eat Manchu cuisine, and cheer for the Manchurian soccer team.
You will experience absolutely none of that. You will never experience any of that.
I bet it feels bad, man.
I bet it feels fucking bad as fuck, bro.
>>77947
Pretty bad. The language is practically dead, only academics really bother to speak it. There are a few villages in North eastern Manchuria with a Manchu majority, but they do not have any Manchu culture as it was wiped out under Mao.
As a non-Han, I am pissed off that the Manchus didn't perserve their national, ethnic and cultural identity and would create better stability within East Asia and the world. They gave too much power to the Han Chinese, who claimed the lands of the Manchu enpire for themselves. An independent China proper, Manchuria, Turkestan, Mongolia, Tibet, and perhaps southern Chinese states would be much better than the huge swarth of communist Han Chinese dominated land we now know as 'China.'. Qing dynasty was the direct cause of modern day Han Chinese communist imperialism. I wish Japan made it all the way to reverse the damage the Qing and its successor the KMT had done
>>77947
Half-Manchu here, are you actually Chinese or just a troll? At this point in time, Han and Manchu are only distinguishable by whether or not big papa CCP has granted you minority status, there is literally no beef between Han and Manchu.
>>77879
A country with a large bureaucracy has a harder time adapting to change and implementing new ideas. The U.S. is a prime example of a government so large that it cannot implement large changes that people view as normal in every other western nation
>>77947
Are you a nigger? Get the fuck out
>>77454
Biggest keks in Asia
>>78042
Kek. Good boy. Good indoctrinated boy. :)
In some ways, the hilariously inept clusterfuck that was Qing China getting utterly owned by the West paved the way for China to want to gain greatness again, for good or bad. So there is that the Qing has going for them.
>>78042
As a non-Chinese Northeast Asian how does it feel to be associated with greasy, rude, loud, dishonorable chinks with no concept of individuality or space? Chinks are different from Northeast Asians, they did not come out of the same stock of people as the Manchus, Koreans and Japanese. Why do you accept being kekelded?
>>78042
So in other words, you're saying that the Manchu people got fully assimilated into Han?
That's actually really, really, really sad. That means that the thousands of years of Manchu identity, culture, and history have been wiped out. Extinct.
Maybe you Manchu descendants should do a better job of preserving your heritage.
>>77543
>form the Qianlong emperor where he rejects western technology wholesale is a reflection of cultural stagnancy in the Qing empire at the time?
I've had a lot of conversations with a Taiwanese friend of mine who clearly defended that the chinese always had an arrogant "ultra-centrist" view of the world that kept China from actually expanding outwards in "acquiring overseas markets" as you said.
He basically said that this mentality is indeed reflected in that rejection of western technology. He used that letter as a very specific example of that mindset, and how that ended up bringing so much strife to China in his relations with the west and to social strife in China itself.
>>78155
Yeah, Manchu culture the time before the Qing was extremely distinct and rich and not as influenced by Chinese culture as Korea had been. It's a shame an entire culture and geopolitical entity as well as Tibet, the majority of Mongolia, Turkestan are basically wiped out by the cancerous Chinese hivemind. You guys could have genocided most of the Chinese when you had the chance
>>77604
Well at least as a Han you won't be executed for no reason by the Manchus.
Both of them were savages while the Manchus were more prone to be civilized.
>>78155
You cannot revive that which is gone.
>>78153
>Chinks are different from Northeast Asians, they did not come out of the same stock of people as the Manchus, Koreans and Japanese
Are you kidding? Han and Manchu are literally indistinguishable, like I said. Maybe you can tell a Cantonese person apart, but not where I'm from (Beijing). Manchus are the same way as these "rude, loud, dishonorable chinks" because everyone was ruined by the Cultural Revolution. Let me guess, you're Japanese?
>>78155
Pretty much, and the Manchus haven't been around that long. Definitely not more than a thousand years. The Manchu elite willingly became Sinicized and regular Manchu people followed suit.
>>78260
>and the Manchus haven't been around that long. Definitely not more than a thousand years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurchen_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohe_people
>>78260
I think Nurhaci said about how he said Mongols and Manchus have a similar way of life and dress, yet different languages and Koreans and Chinese had a similar lifestyles and dress, yet spoke differently. Manchus had more in common with Mongols than Koreans and Chinese.
>>78361
I mean the Manchurian identity which is still distinct from predecessors. People have been living in that area for thousands of years, remember. Many of the times, people don't even know that the Chinese have a name for them.
>>78490
Yeah, but by the time of the Qing, Manchu culture and society wasn't nomadic anymore.
IM MANCHU
>>78621
Manchu culture was not nomadic but mostly sedentary. You are confusing Manchu culture with Wild/Yeren Jurchens north of the Amur who were mixed with Paleo-Asiatics. It was an institutional change from the Qing bureaucracy, which caused an imposed caste system of an entrenched military/bureaucratic elite based in the banners that altered Manchu lifestyles from an ethnicity to more of a class
>>78642
Hello Im Manchu, I am Fu Manchu.
>>78743
Also have you read Mark Elliott's the Manchu Way? Manchu identity was formed in order to rule China. And they had to add Han Chinese, I guess a lot of them in order to rule under the Manchu label. Before them they were basically Jurchens and identified themselves as a distinct people than with one singular identity.
>TIL ITT manchus are not mongols but han chink mongol hybrids
>>78945
Manchu were originally Mongolic. Now they're just Han Man bastard children.
>>77543
Read Bertrand Russell's essay on China. It's the most insightful and objective view of China during the 1920's by a Western academic without the Western bias.
The reason why Qing never expanded abroad was because the Chinese only love empire just a little bit. China for most of its history had no geopolitical rival with the only real external threat being the steppe tribes which were the terror of every Eurasian civilization.
Pomeranz argument for why the Qing never industrialized is faulty because it fails to factor in the motivation for industrialization. China since the Ming Dynasty was overpopulated, there was a huge pool of human capital and industries were never lacking in labor which means there was no motivation to adopt technologies that would have cut the amount of labor used for production. Hell China had a machine similar to the spinning jenny during the Yuan dynasty but abandoned it because there was no demand for the machine.
>>78794
Fu Yu
>>78061
Make me, Man nigger.
>>79436
WE WE WUZ KINGZ AND SHIET
WE
WUZ
KINGZ
AND
SHIET
>>79501
WE WUZ QINGS AND SHEEEEIIT
>>79501
Kek. This Manchu nigger thinks I'm a nigger.
I'm not a nigger, nigger. You're the nigger, nigger.
>tfw kimchi korean and probably have more jurchen blood than han man nigger
>>79559
WE WUZ QINKS AND SHIET
>>79559
WE WUZ QINKS AND SHIET
-han man nigger
>>77454
Fuck the Manchus, man.
>>77454
Jurchen sounded cooler, why'd they change it to Manchu?
