>God, God, why have you forsaken me?
What did God mean when he said this?
>>685943
Daily reminder that Jesus deserved to die and nothing anyone says will change that.
Since he is God he forsake himself? Christianity is weird.
>>685948
What did Jesus do that meant he deserved to die?
>>685948
>>685943
the song of god said that, lern2 trinity
>>685957
Opposed the establishment.
>>685960
The song of God?
>>685962
Surely they could have let him get away with a short prison sentence.
>>685975
At the time there were too many rebellions and ultra-religious movements going around to allow that. It had to be a death sentence.
>>685943
I know 4chan has a hate boner for reddit, but this is some quality stuff https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/3uo2du/jesus_and_the_mystery_of_his_words_my_god_my_god/
>>685977
The Romans were very mean desu senpai ;_;
>>685986
I don't know, those answers seem pretty nonsensical.
>>686003
Why?
>>685943
He realized there that he plan was not exactly the smartest one, as having human body and being crucified hurts, godly soul or not.
Because he was the prophet, not the son of God.
>>686159
muhammad (piss be upon him) pls go
>>685948
>2edgy4me
Even Pilate knew he was innocent, Judas hung himself because he felt guilty about getting an innocent man killed. Pretty obvious he didn't deserve to die. The Jews just couldn't handle the bantz so they had him killed
Quoting Psalm 22.
>>686130
As in they don't make any sense.
Like if I said "bibbley bop bibble."
Don't trust nobody not even yourself
>>686193
Judas definitely should have felt guilty for being a key player in saving all of mankind.
Totally deserves to burn in hell for eternity.
>>686459
>implying God operates on Utilitarian principles
>>685943
He meant that Arius was right.
>>686480
>implying an act can be simultaneously against and in accordance with God's will
>>685943
>quoting the psalms
>>686627
>cherry picking
>>685943
Did he say it in Aramaic or Hebrew? Why do Mark and Matthew diverge on this if the Goapels all agree with each other?
He realized he wasn't the Messiah.
>>686627
What do you mean by your three word green text?
That God was quoting the Psalms? That the author of the Gospel of Matthew was just quoting the Psalms and making up his story about the crucifixtion? That OP was quoting the Psalms?
>>685943
>Are you there God? It's me, you.
>>686704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOuWWzP7wl0
>>686193
He deserved to die because it was God's (read: his) will, and what deus vult, deus vult.
>>686703
he said it in koine greek 2bh, the tongue of drama
>>686723
So then both Gospels talking about it are wrong? That's a bit odd, don't you think?
>>686703
fucking fedoras are so retarded he said it in latin because jesus LIVED IN THE ROMAN FUCK EMPIRE YOU IDIOT
>>686726
the gospels weren't even there, like they would even know
>>686726
>people are wrong
>why would people be wrong? Isn't it odd that someone could be wrong?
>>686744
I don't think you will find any arguments m8, it appears to be the non-religious posting in this thread.
Apart from one idiot that popped up to claim Jesus was just the Son of God and not God (thereby proving his complete lack of understanding of his own religion) there doesn't appear to be any Christians about.
You know they run a mile from threads like these.
>>686728
>Everyone in Europe and the middle east spoke te same language
Yeh, no. Read a book.
>>686744
look man in all honestly he probably didn't say shit, except heavy breathing and the occasional groan and deep cough
>>686589
I find this idea hilarious
Jesus Christ, God's highest created being, suddenly being abandoned by his creator and crying out in despair as he realises he's going to suffer the same fate as all of God's other creatures
>>687052
>same fate
i hope to die comfortably in my sleep at old age, thank you
>>685943
The blood and gore here seems a bit exaggerated.
>>686763
What makes you think Christians from threads doing with Christianity?
Also Jesus was the Son of God AND God. Why are you pretending to not know he's the Son of God. Everyone knows that. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit etc.
>>687388
did you purposely misread his post or are you just dyslexic?
He was a mentally unstable schizophrenic who thought he was the "chosen one".
When he finally realized he was dying and all the pain of crucifixion and insanginuation started to him, it must have deeply shocked him. He was the Chosen One. He wasn't supposed to die! He was God! So what does he do? He cries out in his delusions to Yahweh, his "father", asking him why he abandoned him.
Really sad, if you think about it, but also very human.
>>685943
God the Father cannot look upon Sin. When God the Son took upon himself the Sins of the World, in that moment, God the Son was alone as his Father turned away from Him. At the moment of His death, the Sin Burden was destroyed, and the Father welcomed the Son in Heaven.
>>687399
I meant to type *What makes you think Christians run from threads doing with Christianity
Whoops
He said threads like this, but I don't see why this is different from other threads about Christianity
>>685943
He meant "with Jews you lose"
>>687598
What you thought he said about Jesus/God/Son of God is again not at all what he said.
>>685943
Jesus took the sins of mankind onto Himself at the cross. All of your sins were on Him there.
When the perfect Lamb of God became sin, the Holy Spirit left Him, and the Father turned His back. (The earth also broke apart, and the sun went dark, among other things sufficient to prove to the execution leading centurion that they indeed had crucified the Son of God.)
God cannot live with sin. God cannot tolerate sin. When Jesus became sin, He was forsaken by the Spirit and Father.
That's what He did for you.
What have you done for Him?
>>685962
The establishment was Rome, and Rome found Him not guilty.
Any other guesses?
>>687627
>and Rome found Him not guilty
Then why did they crucify him.
>>687607
Ohhh...yeah I'm a retard. I didn't see the just in "just the Son of God"
Disregard my posts
>>687648
To please a mob of people screaming to crucify him
>>687648
The jews did
>>687648
The Jews pressured Pilate into doing what they wanted to do, kill Jesus, by threatening to tell friends of Caesar that Pilate was going soft on people calling themselves kings under Roman rule (sedition).
Pilate saw right through them, but of course, that threat was very real, and Pilate's own life was at stake.
Pilate gave it one last shot by promising to free either Jesus or Barabbas, a zealot, likely a thief and a murderer, and the mob chose to save Barabbas.
Many people forced Jesus to die for His beliefs because they were unwilling to die for theirs.
>>685943
It means trinitarianism a shit
>>687669
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Spirit is God.
There is One God.
I'm a christian and I don't know what he meant.
Christfags fuck off
>>685943
He's quoting Psalm 22.
>>687666
it strikes me as odd that such a judicial people as the romans would just say "fuck it" for something like this
>>687668
much like judas, barabbas should be awarded a spot in heaven for his pivotal role 2bh
>>687683
Pilate wasn't in Rome tho. The Heebs were the majority in Jerusalem and Pilate figured it would be easier to dispose of some random homeless guy than have to deal with the headache of calming down throngs of hysterical merchants.
>>687672
Then who was phone?
>>686163
ahaha
>>687672
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Spirit is God.
The Son (God) incarnates in a man (not God) Jesus.
Jesus and the Son are eternally united but Jesus the Man and Jesus the God are not intermingled.
Jesus is God, full stop.
God somehow added on to himself something that is necessarily not himself. God was deficient, or else is now changed into something other than what he was.
?
>>687678
Psalms 22 prophesies what He is going to say.
Prophecy predicts future events.
>>687710
Maybe it will help your thinking to know that Jesus created the universe.
Jesus is YHWH.
>>687052
>Jesus Christ
>created
No.
>>687710
>Jesus the Man and Jesus the God are not intermingled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism
>>687720
Sure but He's still quoting it.
>>685943
It's a mystery.
It's ok for you not to understand it, but don't you dare to test our Lord Jesus or you will suffer the consequences.
>>687675
He's quoting Psalm 22.
Everyone in this thread should read it:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+22
Especially relevant because
>They pierced my hands and my feet.
>I can count all my bones.
>They look, they stare at me;
>They divide my garments among them,
>And for my clothing they cast lots.
>>687052
>God's highest created being,
You will suffer for this
>>687731
But hypostatic union is literally "orthodox" Christology.
>"Christians" in charge of understanding their ideology
>>687724
According to Christian dogma, "Jesus" created the universe because God the Son created the universe. But God the Son later incarnated in the man Jesus, son of Mary. Jesus the man did not create the universe, but God the Son which became one of Jesus the Christ's two natures that united in one person did.
This is what Christians believe.
>>687618
>Him
Anthropomorphic God concepts are literally for the animal regressive plebs among us.
Kindly kill yourself and your family with all due haste.
>>687729
Jesus Christ was created in a sense.
You're thinking of the Word.
>>685943
it was stylistically designed to be that way. We can't undo that, but we can deminish the effects of it.
>>687729
Jesus Christ created the universe.
He is not a created being. He is, however, an infinitely creative being.
>>687733
They're His original words. The Holy Spirit gave them to David a thousand years before they were uttered.
>>687745
Important to note that crucifixion was not even invented at the time of this writing of David's.
>>687750
Christians believe that Jesus walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, and wrestled with Jacob. Informed Christians, I should say. Knowledge has very little to do with salvation. Knowledge is a trap.
>>687767
Jesus is a man. As much man as though He were not God, and called God the Father.
He made us in His image.
We did not make Him in ours.
>>687804
Jesus is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
--John the beloved apostle
>>685943
Perhaps the crucifixion wasn't Jesus's sacrifice/punishment. Perhaps instead, the real reason Jesus's crucifixion is so important is that the Father abandoned all contact with Jesus during it.
Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmXO7aYDUAs
Also, it's already been said, but Psalm 22
>>687890
Yeah the Word became flesh.
Jesus Christ is both God and man, but the man aspect did not exist before his incarnation.
>>687750
The whole point of the hypostatic union is that Jesus the man and Jesus the God ARE intermingled, hence the whole UNION thing...
>>687887
>He made us in His image.
>We did not make Him in ours.
really sad and blatantly obvious excuse to keep anthropomorphism
notice how islam doesn't fall into this trap
>>686459
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Matthew 18:7
>>687905
How did He wrestle with Jacob then?
(Is it possible He's not a slave to time?)
>>687912
Their demon god Hubal is indeed anthropomorphic.
>>687912
Notice how Islamic countries are garbage.
>>688051
>implying that was Jesus
You think the Father can't manifest his holy ass and wrestle or what?
>>688048
English?
>>688063
you rockin' moon shoes to make that jump
>>688066
evil must happen, but woe to the man who happens to be the one to commit it
>>688065
Not without wiping out the world, no. He talked once at Sinai and the Jews begged Moses to never have Him do so again.
>>686459
>Son of Perdition
>saves mankind
Your spiritual father has taught you well, evil one.
>>688095
He manifests himself dozens of times in the OT.
>>688099
>one of the players in getting Jesus crucified
>crucifixion allowed salvation for mankind
Care to explain what I'm missing here?
>>688081
Why must evil happen?
>>688074
God's incarnation in the person of Jesus of Nazareth laid the foundation for the development of Humanism.
Islamic countries cannot into humanism because they worship an abstract idea whereas Christians worship a person named Jesus Christ.
The lack of humanistic influence in the Islamic world is why they still chop people's hands of for stealing a loaf of bread and blow themselves up when they get angry.
>>685977
"Lets make a martyr out of him :DDDDDD"
It was probably said in despair about his ministry being destroyed so quickly, and about him fulfilling none of the messianic requirements Yahweh proscribed
But within the 300 years after his death it was changed to him merely saying it for poetic reasons, since Jesus always existed, sharing the same ousia with Yahweh in the Godhead trinity. Now he was willingly sacrificing himself as the final atonement for the sins of Adam, confidently knowing he'd rise again, and those who condemned him would face disunion with the Godhead for actually believing Yahweh when he said the Messiah would be a conquering hero over Israel's political enemies.
>>688115
because that is the way god made the world. why? im not sure. there are probably people more qualified to answer that question on this board.
>>685957
He didn't deserve to die but He choose to so that humanity could be redeemed.
>>685987
>Romans
The kikes are responsible for Jesus' death; Pilate was just a useful idiot.
>>688131
this is a pretty good point but the key is the suffering and sacrifice of said god-incarnate-human that allows for humanism, not just the fact that he incarnated
polytheists had the same idea of gods incarnating as men long before, just sans the atonement/salvific aspect
>>688151
God bless you for expanding and clarifying.
>>685943
To fulfill a prophecy from the psalms.
>>688100
Jesus does, yes. Jesus is God. Jesus is YHWH.
>>688177
No. Jesus is God and a man simultaneously. His human quality did not exist before his incarnation.
>>688131
But Muslims revere a prophet that actually existed
>>688144
>He didn't deserve to die but He choose to so that humanity could be redeemed.
Who came up with these rules?
>>688187
pfff...get this....he did LMAO
>>688114
Sure.
1. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
2. The wages of sin is death.
3. The life is in the blood.
4. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins.
Jesus, being God, was able and willing to redeem a lost and fallen mankind; to pay our debt to God. Our sin debt. Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer.
He literally took all of our sins on Him at the cross. All of them. Then He suffered the wrath of God on all of those sins, and then He died, paying the ultimate price for all of those sins.
God's justice, holiness and righteousness satisfied by Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf, offers to us the free gift of His salvation, His Holy Spirit, to all who believe. He offers this to us out of His grace and mercy.
It's the only way to be saved.
And it didn't have to exist.
>>688183
Who did Jacob wrestle with, and call God?
Who did Joshua talk to on the eve of Jericho?
Who was in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego?
>>688212
God manifest
God manifest
God manifest
>>688206
>it didn't have to exist.
by it you mean the sin, burden, etc., right?
>>687907
>The whole point of the hypostatic union is that Jesus the man and Jesus the God ARE intermingled, hence the whole UNION thing...
Hence sacrificing himself to himself so people can get into a magicland created by himself for the forgiveness of sins created by himself.
>>688185
Revere ≠ worship
Ultimately, Mohammad was just a guy whereas Jesus is literally God.
Muslims will always have a lower view of humanity than Christians because their abstract theology doesn't have a human face and this is what allows them to embrace cruelty towards human beings.
In Christianity, the human body is vessel for God and needs to be respected as such.
In Islam, the human body is just a hunk of meat and can be butchered as such.
>>688228
>>688242
you could attempt to show him otherwise, but memeposting and giving up is easier i guess
>>688218
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.
Google "Arian heresy" for your own edification.
>>688220
No, the means of salvation. The sin was all us.
God owes us nothing.
>>688271
Jesus is not the only way God can manifest himself? Especially before his incarnation?
Nothing I'm saying is Arian btw.
>>688268
If I thought he was willing to listen perhaps I would but unlike Jesus I cannot make a blind man see.
>BUT WHY DO YOU THINK HE WAS UNWILLING TO LISTEN HUH???
Referring to Heaven as a "magicland" is a sign of advanced fedoraism.
>>688268
Not him but it's kind of mentally exhausting to respond, and then have them respond exactly how you figured they would, and so on and so forth
It really is just easier to give up sometimes
>>688296
even if he was rude he has a point
the world is a game designed by god and he enters as a player and loses according to his own rules in order to let everybody win
>>688273
Alright. Now, was sin a necessary element of humanity?
>>688313
Jesus didn't lose tho.
>>688334
dying is definitely losing, that's the point of it, that's what makes it a sacrifice
but in the end it was a victory for everyone else
>>685943
Nothing, because there is no god. And that line is fiction.
>>688286
You are, actually, by saying that the preincarnate Jesus cannot be Jesus, as Jesus was not born yet.
That's exactly the Arian heresy. That Jesus did not exist prior to His birth.
>>688314
You are asking a different question.
You are asking if human and angel agency necessarily leads to sin.
(yes)
>>688349
> Jesus did not exist
Exactlly.
>>688349
Arianism holds that Jesus is inferior to the father, his creation. I never said that.
>>688341
What makes it a sacrifice was that it was unpleasant and painful; not that it was a "loss."
Furthermore, He didn't stay dead and His resurrection was not a victory for the kikes let me tell you.
>>688144
You're a fucking idiot, Romans wanted to quash Jewish rebellion wherever it arose; brutally executing a rebel leader (see: jesus) would be one way to do so.
>>685943
Mark wrote it in because it was in a Psalm
>>688367
you're misunderstanding the metaphor and running with it in the wrong direction
just forget it m8
>>688375
I understand the metaphor perfectly fine; Jesus is the eternal victor over Sin and death.
Have you considered the possibility that you are the one running in the wrong direction?
>>688369
Jesus was not a threat to the Roman political authority; "render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar" remember?
The only reason there was a possibility of rebellion in Jerusalem was because Caiaphas and his merry band of merchants were gonna raise Hell unless Pilate killed Jesus.
>>688409
The Jews had no political authority in Jerusalem because they were a conquered people (LMAO) under the yoke of the Romans. The only way they could get rid of Jesus was to have the Romans do it for them.
>>688405
You really think the Romans gave a shit about a story they didn't hear about? This was a Messiah claimant, a guy that as far as they knew was going to lead Judea into holy war against the Roman empire (shimon bar kochba, another Messiah claimant, did). You take a guy that says he's going to liberate everyone and gathers large groups of jews to talk about said liberation, yeah, if I was a Roman, I'd definitely want to get rid of him. That is a 100% threat to the Roman political authority.
>>688416
Which is why they took care of other matters before the Sanhedrin right?
>le ebin /pol/ screenshot, your argument is invalid
This was less about Jews getting butthurt about a false Messiah claimant and the Romans trying to keep a lid on the pot.
>>688377
It's really funny. Arguing historical points using the bible as a source is about as useful as arguing the ecology of sandworms using Dune as your reference.
>>688416
>>688429
Also, that screenshot is retarded, the Jewish religious authorities in Judea could absolutely authorize killings of their own need be; they didn't need the romans to hold their hands through the entire process. For an example, if you get caught porking another dude on the sabbath by a few male witnesses, yeah, you're gonna die.
>>688424
Do you really think the Romans gave a shit about some Jew legend about a "Messiah?"
Pilate killed Jesus because Caiaphas threatened revolt if he didn't and it was more politically expedient to execute a single innocent man than having to deal with hordes of hysterical Heebs.
>>688357
If sin is a necessary consequence of man, then man necessarily leads to sin. An omniscient being knows this beforehand.
Either sin comes into the world, or no humans exist.
Operating under the assumption that Jesus spilling his own blood would have been sinful, and would defeat the purpose, then humans killing Jesus would be necessary to save mankind from sin. An omniscient being knows this beforehand.
Either Judas sells Jesus out, or mankind suffers for eternity.
The only way to have humans and not have them eternally suffer for sin, Jesus must die at the hands of men. This could not have happened without Judas. An omniscient being knows this before creation.
I'm left confused as to why God is not ascribed partial responsibility for sin existing.
>>688391
no, because what i wrote is perfectly sound.
dying is the losing condition of the game, hence why humanity lost for so long. in order for mankind to win, god had to become a player himself and face the same losing condition as the rest of humanity.
yes, by resurrecting after 3 days he 'wins' in the long term, but you are focusing too much on that aspect and not seeing the larger game.
>>688444
Are you retarded? My whole post was why they gave a shit about the so-called Messiah guy. They didn't give a shit about the render unto Caesar passage because it wasn't on their radar.
>Caiaphas threatened revolt
They revolted for a plethora of reasons, but you really don't think a siqarim couldn't have stuck jesus a few times while giving a speech? Even Tacitus, the first guy to mention jesus outside the gospels, said he suffered under Pontius Pilate. No mention of Caiaphas. This is very un-1st century judea-like.
>>688462
Funny, they did in Acts.
And it wasn't an actual Sanhedrin, what with being convened at night, on a holiday, in a private home, without the Av Beit Din present, etc.
The impression the gospels give is very much "Kangaroo court of the high priest and his friends" rather than a real sitting of the Sanhedrin, which is probably why they're reluctant to actually carry out the execution.
>>688462
Oh, no, I understood what you said. I'm just saying that you, and the biblical interpretation, is wrong. They don't need political authority to stone some heretic. The Romans crucify rebels like jesus. Jesus was a rebel in the romans' eyes. He died a rebel's death. That's it.
Why are you getting so mad, anon? That's awfully not christ-like.
>>685943
From my understanding, this indicates that Jesus did not know that he was god. Like, he sent himself to Earth in the form of Jesus, but in doing so Jesus' human nature was unaware of this. It's also a bit of ironic humor, like the Peter rock pun in the latin version.
>>688364
Arius taught that only God the Father was eternal and too pure and infinite to appear on the earth. Therefore, God produced Christ the Son out of nothing as the first and greatest creation. The Son is then the one who created the universe. Because the Son relationship of the Son to the Father is not one of nature, it is, therefore, adoptive. God adopted Christ as the Son. Though Christ was a creation and because of His great position and authority, He was to be worshipped and even looked upon as God. Some Arians even held that the Holy Spirit was the first and greatest creation of the Son.
By you saying Jesus did not exist prior to His birth, you are saying Jesus is not eternal, as God is eternal. You are therefore saying Jesus is not fully God.
>>688457
>dying is the losing condition of the game, hence why humanity lost for so long.
If that's how you're looking at it, it would be more accurate to say that damnation is the losing condition of the game because everyone dies but only those who are victorious through Christ will escape damnation.
Jesus' death was not a loss but a victory because it allows those who believe in Him to escape damnation.
>>688374
It was in a messianic psalm because Jesus, the messiah, was going to utter it on the cross.
>>688374
You think he'd have quoted it correctly then, in Hebrew, not in Aramaic.
>>688456
Not necessary; Adam was created without sin. Lucifer was created without sin.
I would say inevitable. And as God sees the end from the beginning, not only inevitable, but predictable.
Humans existed without sin, just as angels today exist without sin. Twice as many as have fallen, actually.
Jesus did spill His own blood, because He was not at the mercy of His executioners. He could have called the whole thing off at any time.
Humans cannot and did not kill Jesus; He dismissed His Spirit as a King dismisses his prime minister.
Jesus pushed Judas into selling Him out, so that the plot to kill Jesus would happen when Jesus said it would happen, on the Passover.
Judas was not irreplaceable in this plan; and it is written that evil shall come; but woe to him by whose hand evil comes. Judas is damned.
God knew sin would exist and before He created the world, He resolved to die to redeem it.
It's called the everlasting covenant. It went something like this.
Jesus: If you will save them, I will die for them.
Father: If you will die for them, I will save them.
That covenant was sealed in Jesus' blood.
>>688502
fair enough, but what is damnation other than experiencing death? adam was not mortal before the fall.
>>688474
They were operating under the principal that it is better that one man die, than the nation is destroyed.
Their error was in assuming that one man was not their God.
>>688534
>I have no legitimate rebuttal
>who cares what the text says or what history says, I'm right because what you say doesn't agree with my world view
Stormfags never cease to amaze me.
I don't say this often, but no, seriously, go back to /pol/.
>>688500
The godhead had never been split asunder for all eternity prior to that moment.
We will never know the pain of that separation.
>>688540
>Jesus did spill His own blood, because He was not at the mercy of His executioners. He could have called the whole thing off at any time.
isn't that suicide, and thus sin?
>Jesus pushed Judas into selling Him out
That sounds eerily similar to tempting someone to sin
>>688502
O death, where is your sting?
O grave, where is your victory?
MY LORD LIVES!
>>688559
Deicide, I guess. Can't be a sin, because Jesus didn't stay dead. More like submitting to a public execution when you know you're innocent.
Stephen King had a great line in the Green Mile.
We used His love to kill Him.
>>685943
In my view I believe he said this because of his becoming human in a human body with human feelings and traits while still God he felt the pain of humans and understands why we cry out to him in our times of need but in the end he knows what's best for us so it is necessary that we must suffer for eternal life
>>688546
Damnation is the second death when one receives eternal punishment for their sins.
All shall experience death but those who live in Christ will not be damned.
>>688574
>Can't be a sin, because Jesus didn't stay dead.
That makes it sound a lot less of a sacrifice, desu senpai.
>>688554
You're trying to undermine the authority of the Gospels in a Christian thread by citing Jewish law and act surprised that Christians don't respect the authority of your Rabbis?
Oy vey.
>>688581
christ saved humanity from eternal death.
damnation is the punishment for rejecting that salvation.
>>688587
I have mentioned nothing about rabbis, I have mentioned only historical facts and likelihoods. You, on the other hand, have blown yourself the fuck out by being so hilariously wrong on everything we argued about.
This isn't a Christian thread, this is a Christian discussion thread. I'm here to discuss, you're here to look like an ass and shitpost.
>>688583
The sacrifice has to be blameless, spotless, and without blemish. Had Jesus sinned, His sacrifice would not have ascended into heaven, and neither would He. He would just have been another sinner, condemned for dying with a sin on his record.
It was never going to be that way.
>>688630
You've been citing Jewish law which was written by Rabbis ya putz.
>>688630
Let me ask you a question.
Do you think that all of the things concerning Christianity can be understood by people who are not Christians?
>>688640
Where? If you're referring to the guy who responded to you about Acts and the legitimate Sanhedrin, that wasn't me. But he's right nonetheless. EVEN SO, he isn't pulling some Talmudic quote out of his ass, that still just falls under historical fact.
But, wait, whats that? The bible says the Sanhedrin had enough authority to perform an execution? Which went against what you said and what your retarded /pol/ screenshot said?
Why can you literally not stop getting blown the fuck out?
>>688638
didn't he fuck up some people's merch and literally lash at people with a whip that one time?
he could have kindly evacuated them from the temple but he went the rude af route
>>688638
I suppose there is a crucial conceptual distinction here between letting oneself die and killing oneself then?
>>688649
Not unless they've been thoroughly studied of course. Things like debunking /pol/ bullshit don't require being a member of any faith.
>>688662
Yes. The wrath of God will be revealed in the future.
That was the slightly off-putting of God.
>>688663
I would think so. Especially if you have the power to stop the execution. 12 legions of angels would have been way overkill. Just walking through them, like He did in the past, would have worked.
Jesus came to earth to die.
That is Plan A. This is all Plan A.
>>688649
One can easily turn that around and claim that you can't properly understand the OT without being Jewish, therefore Christians have no call to be relying on it for anything.
>>688662
Sometimes people need to be shook a little bit to wake them the fuck up
You all sound mental
>>688657
>If you're referring to the guy who responded to you about Acts and the legitimate Sanhedrin, that wasn't me
Uhuh.
> he isn't pulling some Talmudic quote out of his ass, that still just falls under historical fact.
That is precisely what "he" is doing by claiming that the Sanhedrin in which Jesus was condemned was illegitimate because it didn't some follow some Talmudic minutiae even though the Caiaphas himself was present.
>The bible says the Sanhedrin had enough authority to perform an execution?
Except that wrong, see John 18:31
>inb4 the Gospels are lying!!!!1!!11
Also if you want a more in depth explanation see:
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/5558/in-the-time-of-jesus-were-the-jewish-authorities-allowed-to-execute
>>688666
satan trips
So you consider Christianity to be some sort of philosophy.
It is not a philosophy. Most Christians could not tell you what Jesus said, and taught.
It is a transcendent and fundamental transformation away from a spiritually dead human being into an eternally living new creation in Christ Jesus.
The things of God are never going to make sense to you until God is in you, teaching you.
They're just going to be foolishness, or a stumbling block, depending on if you're a Jew or not.
>>688686
>That is Plan A. This is all Plan A.
It still feels convoluted to me for a Plan A. Why not immediately provide a path to salvation from sin if God knew it was going to be a variable from the get-go? Why the thousands of years of sinful suffering first?
Also, the fact that a new covenant was made strikes me as a Plan B.
>>688692
But for the truth, that would be correct.
2 Corinthians
Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
So the question is, can YHWH place a veil over the hearts of the Jews?
Did He?
Has there been tremendous Jewish thought and growth in the past 2000 years?
>>688720
That's what Eve thought God did. Eve thought Cain, her firstborn, her seed, would be the messiah, and get them back into the Garden.
If that were true, you could host a small dinner for all of the human occupants of heaven.
God had bigger plans than that.
>>688741
>you could host a small dinner for all of the human occupants of heaven.
But there would still be the choice to accept salvation or damnation.
>>688703
If you think I'm using the gospel as an end-all be-all of what is historically accurate then you're quite mistaken. It can be accurate, and in this post you'll see where I agree with it and where I don't.
Anyways, what that poster mentioned was the martyrdom of Stephen in the book of Acts.
Also, your link deals with executions with 100% due process; it is implied that Romans exerterted some control over executions, because Josephus later states that when the Romans fucked off from Jerusalem temporarily, the high priest organized them and resumed them.
The martyrdom of saint Stephen, however, implies the Sanhedrin was, at times capable of literally storming someone outside a city and having them executed, pic related.
Simple things like stoning a heretic on the spot with Sanhedrin approval is different than, say, the Sanhedrin in Roman Judea calling for the deaths of 100s of Roman collaborators and people who worked on the sabbath etc that the Romans couldn't allow.
>>688720
>Also, the fact that a new covenant was made strikes me as a Plan B.
Is it not likely that the New Covenant demonstrated the futility of the Old? Is it not completely different, and dependent upon Jesus as its author and finisher, unlike the Old?
Was anyone saved by the Law? By their own righteousness?
I know it feels like Plan B. Jesus told Paul this was always Plan A.
Ephesians 3
To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
It was always going to be first to the Jews, and then to the Gentiles.
>>688703
>Uhuh.
No, he's really not. But I'll respond to this post of yours.
>That is precisely what "he" is doing by claiming that the Sanhedrin in which Jesus was condemned was illegitimate because it didn't some follow some Talmudic minutiae even though the Caiaphas himself was present.
These are hardly "Talmudic Minutae". Ciaphas, as high priest, didn't head the court, the Av Beit Din did, who was Gamaliel at the time if I've got my dates right. Put simply, the man had no business conducting trials at all, and certainly not when you break the basic laws in so doing.
>Except that wrong, see John 18:31
Except that's right, see Acts 5:33. Not to mention other sources, like Josephus, also claim that the Sanhedrin was in the business of killing people at the time.
>>688715
The guy I'm """debating""" claims the Sanhedrin couldn't have had jesus executed no matter how hard they'd have tried. I'm saying he's wrong. That's it. It is true they couldn't execute everyone they wanted unhindered, but they could definitely take care of things when they absolute needed to, which brings me to my next point, that jesus was crucified primarily because the Romans wanted him dead.
>>688756
>Is it not likely that the New Covenant demonstrated the futility of the Old? Is it not completely different, and dependent upon Jesus as its author and finisher, unlike the Old?
How does that not make it sound like a Plan B?
>>688747
Eve was wrong. Cain was not the messiah.
Many people think this whole creation is so that we can go back to the Garden of Eden, and live like that, but with Jesus ruling the world. And for the most part, there's a lot of validity to that thought.
I believe it will be better than that, and more than that; I believe that we new creations are greater than Adam was. That our choice to collaborate with God to become something new gives us the power to be, well, something quite remarkable. Something like the children of God.
He did a face-heel turn and became an atheist himself in the very last moments
>>688751
Problem with bum rushing Jesus outside and killing Him.
The tens of thousands of people who loved Him, and were shouting Hosanna to the King! the week before, would riot.
The Jewish rulers feared the people. Both in Jesus' case, and in John the Baptist's case.
>>688751
The link draws a distinction between executions with due process and those without; Jesus' being former and Stephen's the latter.
The argument is that Stephen was killed in a moment of passion without judicial authority whereas Jesus was executed with full authority after having stood trial both before the Sanhedrin and Pilate himself.
>>688777
Then why would he be crying out to God?
>>688769
>Eve was wrong. Cain was not the messiah.
That's not my point though. My point is that why not do the whole Son of God, blood spill, new covenant, etc. thing sooner rather than later? The amount of suffering and damnation would have been reduced.
>>688781
>Judicial authority
>When breaking literally every rule of due process that existed back then that there was.
Uh-huh.
>>688781
The argument is that ten thousand people in Jerusalem would not tear apart the mob murdering Stephen.
They would tear apart any mob killing Jesus. Jesus had just raised Lazarus from the dead, and had fed 10,000 people with a few loaves and fish. He had just ridden into Jerusalem on a colt, hailed as the Messiah. Save us now! Save us now! Hosanna!
>>688778
Gee, its almost like all of jesus' followers are potential violent radicals against the Roman establishment! No, but seriously, the gospels already show they broke Jewish law to bring him to the Romans, if it was that big of a deal there were other avenues they could have taken.
But what I'm also arguing, is that since they didn't attempt anything of the sort, he wasn't their primary enemy, and instead, Rome's.
>>688787
So would the number of new creations abiding in the New Jerusalem.
The New Jerusalem is a satellite city 2/3 the size of the moon.
When the No Vacancy sign pops up, we're sky.
Your point is well taken. However, you must consider that there are both costs and benefits to the creation, and God knowing the end from the beginning, found that in God economy, the creation is profitable.
I encourage people to stop being part of the cost, and start being part of the benefit.
>>688797
Or, more likely, you have a Sadduceean dominated priesthood which is largely opposed to the Pharisees who have more influence in the Sanhedrin (consider again, acts 5 and Gamaliel's influence) and Jesus is a pawn in their games against each other; with the Sadducees using their position of Roman collaborators to flout the Pharisee control over "legitimate" instruments of execution.
>>688797
They had tried to kill Jesus many times before.
So, your point is kind of moot.
>>688781
I'm aware it does, but what it doesn't say is that the Sanhedrin literally headed this execution. It wasn't extra-judicial, it as extremely passionate.
Jesus didn't meet with the proper authorities, if the gospel narrative is true, Jewish law was definitely broken and he didn't receive the proper process to be found guilty and executed, which may or may not have been totally within the limits of the Sanhedrin to perform immediately.
>>688804
Neither took Jesus' side. Anyone on either who believed in Jesus did so on the down low. Nicodemus comes to mind.
And Jesus, being tested by both the pharisees and Sadducees, overcame their questions and silenced them.
>>688760
The "kohen gadol" was the highest religious office a Jew could hold; to claim that Caiaphas did not have authority over the Pharisees is ludicrous and to dismiss his condemnation of Jesus because it didn't follow the proper protocols (kek) is precisely the kind of autistic legalism for which your race is famous and which Jesus preached against.
Also Stephen's martyrdom was committed in a moment of passion without legal authority.
See: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/5558/in-the-time-of-jesus-were-the-jewish-authorities-allowed-to-execute
>>688805
Really? Where were all the assassins? Where were the cutthroats willing to slice him and dice him? Why go through all that trouble to try and convinct him? Why deal with your most hated nemesis, rome, to have him non-halachically executed?
The gospel says they tried to catch him breaking Jewish law many times; had they, he would not have been crucified. I've no doubt they tried to eventually have him killed, but not turning him over to the Romans to be executed.
>>688807
The Jews were willing that Jesus die for His belief, instead of them dying for theirs.
They were operating under the theory that it is better for one man to die, than the country be destroyed.
They were in the same room with their God, and could not see Him. Like most Jews today, they were not looking for God.
>>688801
>So would the number of new creations abiding in the New Jerusalem.
Would it have though? If the messiah came earlier, judgment day wouldn't necessarily also have to come earlier. There would arguably be more time to bring people closer to God, and thus there would be more people closer to God.
If mankind wasn't able to spend millenia bathing in sin prior to the Messiah's first coming, there would be a lot less sin.
>>688813
The High priest was a hereidtary position and one that presided over temple sacrifices, nothing more. The contemporary Jews ranked a learned bastard over an average high priest.
>; to claim that Caiaphas did not have authority over the Pharisees
He didn't have authority over anyone, except to throw them out of the Temple. The Av Beit Din had to preside over the Sanhedrin, and he's conspicuoulsy absent during Jesus's "trial"
>Also Stephen's martyrdom was committed in a moment of passion without legal authority.
So you have no idea what I'm talking about. Good for you. Try re-reading Acts 5 again. That's the chapter between 4 and 6.
Then, when you graduate to big boy books, you might want to try Revolution in Judea, by Hyam Maccoby.
>>688813
Okay, so upon re-reading your link, I think you've proved me right.
Pontius fucking Pilate tells him to kill him; they say "no"
Is that not the EXACT Permission they were looking for, and that the Romans granted? Either they couldn't legitimately execute him, or something is extremely inconsistent here.
>martyrdom of Stephen doesn't count
You're right I suppose, he didn't meet with the av beit din. But the Sanhedrin spear-headed that one alright.
>>688816
John 8:59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 10 [ Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus ] Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him....Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.
Luke 4
So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff. Then passing through the midst of them, He went His way.
What assassin can kill God?
>>688807
>>688820
I realize I made a mistake in my last post.
It was technically extra judicial because the av beit din wasn't present (I think) but the Sanhedrin was, but in this case, he still didn't meet with proper authority.
You seem like a more understanding person to talk to about this stuff but because I can't get into the spiritual side of things I'm afraid I can't really converse with you further.
>>688822
I see you have yet to apprehend what a fallen and broken race mankind is.
After a thousand years of living on an Eden like world, with the devil chained up, and Jesus ruling righteously over the entire earth, when the devil is released, he will have an army to confront Jesus.
This is the deal. Play the hand you're dealt.
>>688849
Those aren't assassins and cutthroats. I was talking about some guy killing him while he's giving one of his impassioned speeches or something. If he could truly sneak away like that than more power to him. Thank you for reminding me of that BTW, attempts were in fact made on his life.
>>688839
John 18
They answered and said to him, “If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you.”
Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.”
Therefore the Jews said to him, “It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,” that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which He spoke, signifying by what death He would die.
The Jews would never have crucified Jesus, and Jesus was prophesied to be crucified.
>>688858
>After a thousand years of living on an Eden like world, with the devil chained up, and Jesus ruling righteously over the entire earth, when the devil is released, he will have an army to confront Jesus.
If it is an Eden-like world, then there wouldn't be sinners flocking to Satan in order to create an army to confront Jesus with.
Although, I'm not sure what frightening destructive power any sort of army is supposed to have over an omnipotent being.
>>688849
jesus is the OG solid snake
>>688851
I think that it's important to take into account that Israel was really feeling the yoke of Rome, and Roman taxes, chafe, and really had a bunch of people trying to start revolts against Rome.
Which as the Jews knew, would cause legions to march.
And indeed, scant 40 years later, legions did march, and destroy the temple, and destroy Israel, and kill millions of people.
The Jews' fears were justified; they just could have been overcome by God acting on their behalf. God v Rome is not a contest. It's annihilation.
>>688836
>The High priest was a hereidtary position and one that presided over temple sacrifices, nothing more. The contemporary Jews ranked a learned bastard over an average high priest.
AND WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS ALLOWED INTO THE HOLY OF HOLIES. TO CLAIM THAT HE HAD NEITHER AUTHORITY NOR RESPECT IS A FLAT OUT LIE BUT WHAT ELSE SHOULD I EXPECT FROM THE LIKES OF YOU?
>Try re-reading Acts 5 again
LETS LOOK AT IT TOGETHER SHALL WE:
>When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
>57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him.
- Acts 5:54-57
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A JUDICIAL TRIAL TO YOU???
>>688839
>they say "no"
AND WHY PRAY TELL DO THEY SAY NO?
LETS LOOK:
>Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
>It is not lawful for us to put any man to death
>It is not lawful for us to put any man to death
>It is not lawful for us to put any man to death
>INB4 THE GOSPELS ARE LYING
>>688867
I don't get the impression that He sneaked away in any of those instances, but merely walked right through people.
The people loved Jesus. He was healing them by the thousands, miraculously, and He was kind, and gentle, and loving, and not ego driven at all.
>>688876
The bible says there will be.
Revelation 20
Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Humans are broken. Fundamentally. There's something seriously wrong with us.
>>688874
The Sanhedrin can't halachically put anyone to death; The av beit din can. Handing him over to the Romans is the only way they could in any law execute him legitimately (from the gospel narrative) because they couldn't pop him for breaking religious rules. However, it didn't stop them from breaking Jewish law before in attempting to do so.
It could be that this was the level they stooped to, to have him executed. But i don't think it's what transpired, word for word, from the gospels.
>>688902
What the Bible now says about future events has no bearing on that hypothetical, though. Had God sent his son right after the fall of man, the bible wouldn't even have been written, or at the very least not in the way that it is now.
Also, which thousand years is this referring to? From what point in time?
And humans having fundamental flaws is a result of how we were created.
>>688909
>legitimately
Go ahead and tell me how anyone could "legitimately" put Jesus to death. You don't even have to take into consideration for the moment that He is God.
>>688888
>AND WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS ALLOWED INTO THE HOLY OF HOLIES. TO CLAIM THAT HE HAD NEITHER AUTHORITY NOR RESPECT IS A FLAT OUT LIE BUT WHAT ELSE SHOULD I EXPECT FROM THE LIKES OF YOU?
Pirkei Avos, Chapter 6, Mishnah 6. You're welcome.
>LETS LOOK AT IT TOGETHER SHALL WE:
I was actually looking at 24-38, where they're debating whether or not they should be executing the disciples. Funnily enough, the notion of "Hey, we can't do this" doesn't come up once.
By the way, you really shouldn't be getting so mad. It'll give you an aneurysm.
>>688923
The Kingdom Age is a thousand years; it starts after the battle of Armegeddon is over, and is defined as the earth being made new, the devil and demons being confined, and Jesus ruling from Jerusalem.
Christians are to rule and reign with Jesus during this time.
It's about 8 years away from now.
>>688888
Nice get, fag.
Anyways, lets examine what you said.
>the Jews can't out anyone to death!
>>why?
>because the gospel says so
The new testament shows the Sanhedrin can execute people (any sanhedrin execution without the av beit din is extra judicial) and so we come to another conundrum in this narrative.
John contradicts Acts; John and Acts both contradict what we know about 1st century Judea.
Here are a list of sources that show they COULD execute their own.
http://www.oocities.org/atheistdivine/execute.html
>>688932
Wait, so the timeline goes:
>Rapture
>Battle of Armageddon
>Thousand years of Jesus ruling
>Satan gets released and deceives everyone again
Because I thought that Armageddon was supposed to be the end to the whole sin, Satan, deception thing.
>>688938
There is no contradiction.
The could, and did, murder Stephen.
They could have tried to kill Jesus, but like all their prior attempts, they would have failed.
They did tell Pilate they could not condemn Jesus to death under their laws. IF YOU WANT TO SAY THIS IS A LIE, THAT'S FINE BY ME.
Because, you know, it is.
>>688947
No, the battle at the end of my last Rev 20 cite ends the conflict. From there we go to the throne judgments, and then wrap up into eternity.
For fun, you can find and place the two Gog/Magog wars into your timeline.
Armageddon immediately precedes the Second Coming.
>>688931
>Pirkei Avos, Chapter 6, Mishnah 6
All this says is that Torah is greater than the priesthood which isn't even what we're discussing but of course subtly changing the subject by citing some Rabbi is an old trick they teach you at Yeshiva I'm sure.
>I was actually looking at 24-38, where they're debating whether or not they should be executing the disciples. Funnily enough, the notion of "Hey, we can't do this" doesn't come up once.
Again, this isn't what we're debating. The issue is whether the stoning of Stephen was a judicially sanctioned execution and the whole "covering their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city" makes it clear that it wasn't but rather a moment of autistic rage triggered by Stephen's vision of God.
I've had enough pilpul for one afternoon so I'll leave you with these verse from a prophet you really ought to study more:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
- Isaiah 29:14
May God have mercy on your soul.
>>688958
From John:
>we have no right to execute anyone
From you, previously ITT
From Acts
>Jewish legal authorities with ornwithout the av beit din can execute people
>they can't execute people because the Romans conquered them lel
You now, after examining evidence that they could:
>well they just would have failed.
Forget whether or not Jesus could have actually been found guilty, all we were arguing about was whether or not Jews could actually execute him using their own legal system, which they actually could as it turns out.
I'll accept your capitulation if you only promise to never shit up this board again.
>>688967
I'm still confused.
Here:
>>688902
>Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth
And then here:
>>688932
>The Kingdom Age is a thousand years; it starts after the battle of Armegeddon is over, and is defined as the earth being made new, the devil and demons being confined, and Jesus ruling from Jerusalem.
>>688976
You fucking idiot, the av beit din could absolutely sanction his death and they did have the authority to do so.
So is Pilate supposed to be in hell or what? Was he forgiven?
>>688976
>All this says is that Torah is greater than the priesthood which isn't even what we're discussing but of course subtly changing the subject by citing some Rabbi is an old trick they teach you at Yeshiva I'm sure.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/horayoth/horayoth_13.html
No, it's pretty representative of the attitudes of the time. The Priests were not particularly revered, being viewed as the pawns of outsiders and temple functionaries at best.
>Again, this isn't what we're debating. The issue is whether the stoning of Stephen was a judicially sanctioned execution and the whole "covering their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, dragged him out of the city" makes it clear that it wasn't but rather a moment of autistic rage triggered by Stephen's vision of God.
Wrong, we're debating whether or not the Sanhedrin had the authority to execute people. Which they very clearly did, because even Acts itself refers to it, nevermind more neutral sources like Josephus.
Is this what they teach you in seminary? How to throw up a wall of bullshit to distract from the fact that you can't defend your point?
>>687668
>>687648
>>687683
>>687666
The account of the Bible is skewed to remove blame from the Romans, so that they'd be more eager to adopt Christianity in its early stages. It's pretty hard to adopt a religion that pretty much tells you that your people killed your new would-be god.
It also does a lot of favors to Pilate, who's painted as a pretty okay guy in the Bible, while most (I think all) sources we have that mention him describe him as a brutal maniac.
>>685943
He means that hes's not a god, but don't worry, one of the people that follow a doctrine that was changed with ill intent an undetermined time ago will come and tell you otherwise.
He knows this because of all the miracles he does in front of us all the time in the name of jesus.
In fact the guy was never even called jesus, so yeah.
oh, if you want to prove me wrong, go ahead and do miracles, yeah, in his name and such
>>687907
Literally heresy. The two natures of the Christ are in union means that the two natures are inseparable and united in action within the one person of Jesus of Nazareth, WITHOUT confusion and conflation of the two natures; hence Hypostatic Union. Why do "Christians" not even understand their own beliefs? Right, because it's incomprehensible and indefensible to begin with.
>b-b-but it's a MYSTERY
>>689473
Nice b8 m8
I was saved and baptized in the holy spirit in the name of Jesus Christ
Pretty intense dawg
>>689505
nice b8 m8
I have Beheld the Glourie of the Amazing Dildoni, and Saw Him beat your Jebus with His Glourie.
It was pretty intense, and proved that Christianity is the religion of little he-bitches.
>>689538
Coo, have fun with that you deluded lying piece of fuck :)
