How come the Irish Famine is not considered a deliberate genocide today?
Facts:
-The vast majority of Irish people were forced to live in the poorest quarter of the island
-Discriminatory laws on Catholic inheritance meant that any owned land had to be subdivided among heirs, in practice this lead to the majority of the population having a plot of land measuring several square meters on which they had to grow their food for a year. Other laws prevented from going to school, speaking their own language, buying property or working in a government job.
-In this wet north atlantic climate the only crop that could produce enough calories to keep people alive under these conditions was the potato, and summer was known as the "hungry months" where people had inevitably run out of food and tried to somehow survive until the next harvest, a situation created entirely by the British government.
-The rest of Ireland was used to grow food for England, owned by absentee English landlords and worked by Irish serfs
-The only tangible effort the British government made to alleviate the famine was to set up workhouses which functioned the same as nazi concentration camps, with rampant disease carrying off the whole population who would be buried in a mass grave, before being restocked with new victims
-Related to this was the board of "public works" where people would engage in pointless hard labour for 14 hours a day such as breaking stones or building roads to nowhere, using the money they earned to buy a little bit of food which was not enough to sustain them calorically for this task, only getting maybe 10% of what they actually needed. People dropped like flies and were instantly replaced with other desperate people.
-Protestant zealots would set up soup kitchens but only give them food if they converted right there
-Most damning of all: the British government continued to export food under armed guard throughout the entirety of the famine as millions starved to death
>>895029
no one sat down in cabinet and thought "how can we kill all of the irish?". and if they did, some half arsed, convuluted plan that relies entirely on an unforeseen fungal blight seems unrealistic, when you have billions of acres of land overseas you can ship them to or rifles you can shoot them with.
the irish catholics were discriminated against, sure, but the famine was an unfortunate coincedence of events which all came together, not a deliberate plan to kill the irish.
besides, ireland was heavily overpopulated. if the irish catholics (note plenty became protestants and mysteriously became ebil english landlords through the process of nationalistic retcon) had had primogeniture, what would have happened to all the following sons and daughters? you would have had latifundia instead of minifundia and a large class of poor servants making do with growing their own potatoes rather than a large class of poor smallholders making do with growing their own potatoes.
>>895053
>no one sat down in cabinet and thought "how can we kill all of the irish?
No but DID say "let them all die and dont help"
>>895072
the government were free marketeers (kind of like now), and that's the how the free market works, anon. the invisible hand giveth and the invisible hand taketh away. what are mere irish lives before the pure rationality that is the invisible hand?
>>895029
Because the UK is in NATO. Hence why the Holodomor is considered genocide and the Irish Famine isn't.
>>895091
The "'ree market' is about creating a disaster through legislation and using physical force to push that legislation, then sitting back and saying "free market lolz" when it fucks up?
>>895053
>>895106
>B-britannia did nothing wrong!
>>895161
whatevs padraig. you're wedded to your position and i've dealt with enough of you gaelge spergs IRL to realise i'm on a hiding to nothing. enjoy your persecution fantasy, like it's the reason you fail at life.
>>895177
EVERYTHING PERCEIVED AS BEING BAD CAN BE NULLIFIED THROUGH CIRCULAR REASONING
>>895183
I'm just stating facts which prove my argument beyond any reasonable doubt
>>895183
Nice ragequit.
Why are bongs so easily triggered? They're as bad as SJWs.
>>895091
I don't think you can call the Conservatives of the 1840s Free Marketers when trying to repeal the Corn Laws split the party.
>>895091
>the government were free marketeers
No they weren't.
>>895106
The Pope. The great manufactured potato was used to flood the new world with Papists and potatoes.
>>895286
Didnt potatoes come from there anyway?
>>895091
> The government were free marketeers
The whole famine can be attributed to government intervention.
>>895029
>smelly homeless person asks me for food
>I tell them to fuck off
>if they die I'm responsible for murder
No that's not how it works. What a horrible precedent to set
>>895327
> Decide to fly a plane
> Americans are dumb enough to have built two towers where I want to fly
This is how shitty your reasoning is
>>895314
It's one of those subjects you need to read up on before posting about.
'Let them eat' cake eh? Or in this case Guinness.
the british government and english/british social policy is definitely responsible for the famine, and the extent of it, but it wasnt genocide which imo makes it morally worse
it was simply ambivalence and incompetence, that led to how extensive the famine was. it was entirely avoidable for instance
>>895029
under the un convention on the prevention of the crime of genocide, genocide is defined as "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". so unless the intent is there, it's not genocide. nobody decided to actively try to wipe out the disgusting subhuman paddies, wonderful as that would have been for the rest of us, so genocide it ain't.
>>895029
Winners write history.
For example, crimes committed by Stalin and the USSR wouldn't even be known if not for the Cold War. Even now they are largely ignored, because they won the WW against the Nazis.
Deliberate famine because the Irish were "subhuman" and "breeding like rabbits" is somehow not a genocide. Labour camps where people starved to death in India is not the same as later Nazi German concentration camps. And how can you prove it otherwise to a man who has never lost his pride and belief in his righteousness?
>>895610
They definitely decided to reduce the number of the disgusting subhuman paddies.
>>895620
Good thing the eternal anglo is on a downward spiral
>>895327
>take food away from homeless person
>prevent other people from giving homeless person food
>he dies
lol wasnt my fault, the lack of food killed him xd
>>895610
how is making the decision that there are too many "subhuman paddies" and letting them starve to death because muh darwinisim not genocide?
>>895053
>ireland was heavily overpopulated
There was enough land to sustain them if the Brits weren't such a drain.
>>895651
"Yeah, I know it wasn't the right thing to do, I'm sorry he wasn't able to go and make his own food, but it still wasn't a murder lol"
>>895053
>no one sat down in cabinet and thought "how can we kill all of the irish?".
In A View of the Present State of Ireland, circulated in 1596 but not published until 1633, the English official and renowned poet Edmund Spenser wrote "They are all papists by profession but in the same so blindingly and brutishly informed that you would rather think them atheists or infidels". In a "Brief Note on Ireland," Spenser argued that "Great force must be the instrument but famine must be the means, for till Ireland be famished it cannot be subdued. . . There can be no conformitie of government whereis no conformitie of religion. . . There can be no sounde agreement betwene twoe equall contraries viz: the English and Irish".
>ireland was heavily overpopulated
Ireland was producing enough food to sustain more than its own population, that "overpopulated" shit is revisionist nonsense.
> if the irish catholics (note plenty became protestants and mysteriously became ebil english landlords through the process of nationalistic retcon) had had primogeniture, what would have happened to all the following sons and daughters?
It was the English who forced the Irish to split land between all the sons, into an ever-shrinking patch of land.
>>895091
>put armed guards around convoys
>export food
>force the Irish to work in slave camps where the mother, father, and children are all separated.
>"lmao it was just the market dude"
>>895327
>No that's not how it works. What a horrible precedent to set
More like
>person realises his food goes bad but lucky has others
>take the rest of his food under armed guard
>tax him on food he doesn't have
>"dude why didn't you just grow something else lmao"
>>895610
>nobody decided to actively try to wipe out the disgusting subhuman paddies
>this is what the Anglo actually believes
gb2ukip
Fuck off, /pol/.
>>895029
Because it's free market when it fixes it and a "disaster that was impossible to prevent" when it doesn't.
But I do regard it as genocide.
>>895783
this is legitimate historical discourse, stop crying
>>895658
who made that decision? show me the cabinet papers. the famine occurred because irish peasants were entirely dependent on potatoes. when the blight hit them they had nothing else to eat. they COULD have eaten all the shitt that the british government was exporting from ireland - fish, meat, cereals etc - but the people in charge were too incompetent to know how bad it was. the british governemtn fucked it up in handling the famine and alleviating it, but they didn't cause it. there's easier ways to murder people.
Because Éire has yet to be rid of the British yoke.
When will these Anglo monsters be held responsible for the injustice they've brought to the world?
>>895327
>Come in and steal a guy's house at gunpoint
>Lol, not my fault he's homeless and starving.
>>895091
Not so much the conservatives, it was the whigs that were the free market autists.
>>896737
Except they did cause it my occupying the country and forcing the Catholic population to live under ridiculous conditions.
It's the same reason the USSR or China is definitely responsible for all the mass starvation that happened through their attempts to collectivize the farms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n730FWycrTY
>irish genocide is real
>white privilege isn't
>>895029
>-In this wet north atlantic climate the only crop that could produce enough calories to keep people alive under these conditions was the potato, and summer was known as the "hungry months" where people had inevitably run out of food and tried to somehow survive until the next harvest, a situation created entirely by the British government.
So how exactly were the Irish surviving in the first place, considering the potato is a product of the Columbian exchange?
The Irish should have gone extinct a long long time ago if the only viable crop for their region was one that only existed thousands of miles away on a different continent.
>>897157
>The Irish should have gone extinct a long long time ago if the only viable crop for their region was one that only existed thousands of miles away on a different continent.
Because the British brought in the Penal Laws (which restricted even buying land, and forced Catholics to divide all their land upon their death to their sons - causing people to inherit progressively smaller patches of land) -after- the new world was discovered in 1695 (almost 100 years after the Nine Years War).
>>895029
>How come the Irish Famine is not considered a deliberate genocide today?
Because it's inconvenient to the capitalist narrative that they are the greatest practitioners of genocide history has ever known. Only other ideologies commit genocides, whether real or imagined. Disclosure: not a /pol/io, the holocaust is an example of a real genocide, although it's important to note how capitalist nations have ignored their active complicity and/or aid in this event both ideologically (fascism was in fact a capitalist mode despite claiming to be otherwise) and materially.
>>895091
This
Britain literally dindu nuffin
>>895129
Not due to NATO, but probably just plain cultural differences. Most westerners don't even know Holodomor happened but that in itself is mostly due to the Soviets covering it up.
>>897378
>capitalist capitalist capitalist
>not a /pol/io
Oh yeah, you sure don't have an axe to grind here, in spite of famine era Ireland being quite far from a free market.
>>895029
>How come the Irish Famine is not considered a deliberate genocide today?
Because:
a) It wasn't conducted as genocide, but as a deliberate attempt to exterminate the undeserving Irish poor, because
b) Genocide was invented during WWII as a concept, and as
c) Researchers into mass depopulations have in the last 20 years rejected attempts to deal with large scale events in favour of localised massacres
While I disagree with a number of these points, they are the standard discourse in the history of ideas and history of genocide.
Anglos have been writing the history since the famine.
>>895750
Ah, of course. A pamphlet by a fucking poet 250 years beforehand is the smoking gun.
>>895029
dear bongs,
thanks for all the awesome new citizens. heh....we win again,
'Merica
Based Ulsterbro here.
Fuck the "Irish", everyone knows that Northern Ireland is the best Ireland.
There was no "intent" behind the government's actions during > le no potato time, but its clear that they didn't give a fuck... and neither do I :^)
why didn't you listen
>>897684
Clooney looks spaniard, almost andalusian
>>897453
Unfortunately (?) your very special and specific kind of capitalism that hasn't been tried yet isn't what capitalism actually is and what its actual effects on human life are.
>>895029
The Irish seem to have gotten over it (in the worlds view)
Unlike the Jews, Armenians etc.
Mabye they realised they could make do through emmigration to the US?
Also, its not like they 'won', and who cares about loosers.
