except roman times when italians didn't sucked ass in war ?
>>650693
Some of the greatest HRE generals were Italian, as well as some of the finest admirals (including those who led in Lepanto).
I'm always triggered by the trolling they get everywhere.
Italians lose battles, not wars.
Define "Italian"
>>650716
yeah sometines this meme is annoying
>>650722
in general
>>650693
Pretty much the entire middle ages from the fragmentation of the HRE to the rise of nation states. And even then the suckage was more about size difference than incompetence.
well venetians saked constantinople so they weren't that bad
Nappy was Italian. He is highly regarded as a general.
Napoleon.
>>651463
Nice meme.
>>651506
>>651507
>14 seconds
new record?
>>651463
I'm sorry, do you see Corsica on that map?
Maybe you need to get your eyes checked.
>>651506
>implying
KEK
>>651705
Corsica was under French government a year before Napoleon's birth, but they weren't French ethnically. Plus Napoleon's father was from mainland Italy. There are literally French conspiracy theories about how Napoleon's mother had an adulterous affair with a Frenchman who fathered him,. this is the narrative of the Napoleonic Society.
>>650693
I thought Italian mercenaries were the best during the renaissance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_of_Barletta
italian general generally suck (see Cadorna and Bava Beccaris) but our soldiers are really tough. We are simply good idealistic fighters (see Garybaldi)
>>651721
>conspiracy theories
shill
It doesn't matter if Italy did anything in the 18th or 19th centuries, public opinion only goes back as far as 100 years. Therefore, Italy is shit and no Italian has done anything good militarily speaking.
This phenomenon also explains the French surrender monkey meme despite Napoleon and WWI having been a thing.
>>651792
>Contemporary history only matters
>>651792
Cadorna was italian. Also '900. fegit!
Romans weren't Italians.
Read a book.
>>651833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome
>Ancient Rome was an Italic civilization that began on the Italian Peninsula as early as the 8th century BC.
>>650693
the condiotirre (sorry if its mispelled) Were some amazing italian mercs. Also Garibaldi's redshirts were known for beating larger forces time and time again as well as being excellent guerrilla fighters
>>650693
Garibaldi fought against two empires, was hunted by french and Savoiards and managed to escape with her agonising wife and a priest.
He destroyed the Bourbon army in Sicily with only 1000 bad armed soldiers.
He helped the birth of two States (Uruguay and Italy). He sent his son to steal Imperial germany battle flag during Vosges battles.
He was probably the best general in recent history.
>>651855
this.
Italian military bad name comes from the shit generals following 1860 unification. Diaz and Cadorna and ammiraglio Persano etc were shit tier nobles who maybe never saw real action in person
>>650693
It is also important to remember that Italians were the first to throw a bomb from a plane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_bomb#Early_bombs
the name of the devil who for first time in human history threw a bomb from a plane is Giulio Gavotti.
Ironically, if not tragically given the time we are living in, the first land to know an air bombing in human history is Libya
>>651893
Wow.
>>651855
he was indeed one of the greatest guerrilla fighters of recent history, but he was also a skilled war leader.
he actually managed to win the archetipal 'uphill battle' in Calatafimi, pic related
>>651506
Implying we care about this loser
>>651792
Well, they sort of managed to conquer Ethiopia that one time.
>>650693
Italy won both WW1 and WW2.
>>651721
Wasn't Napoleon given a ton of shit when he went to the military academy specifically because he wasn't french?
>>650693
Condotierri were badass.
>>651869
>He was probably the best general in recent history.
lol no
not by a fucking long shot
best Italian* general in recent history, but he doesn't even start to compare to generals from countries with relevant modern militaries.
>>652015
Italy eventually won WWI after the most horribly bloody offensive the country had ever seen. Italy didn't win WWII, they turned coat and allied with the winning side, but they weren't the ones that won the war. When the Italians were actually fighting in WWII, they lost, consistently.
>>652015
>Get your shit kicked in by Greece
>Won the war
Top kek
The various states and militaries of the Italian peninsula during the Renaissance were nothing. Unlike the tenacious, medieval city states that successfully fought off a Holy Roman Emperor, they were more an object of conquest for the more powerful leaders of this period. They fought amongst each other, for sure, but when Charles VIII marched through Italy in 1494, the Italians conceded to him without a real fight, opening their gates for fear of a greater defeat. The Swiss mercenaries were the relevant soldiers of this period, and as mercenary leaders, Condotierri were untrustworthy opportunists, with not too many of them being renowned for their martial prowess.
For the next half century, the Italian peninsula and the states it entailed would be nothing but the chew toy for the French, Austrians, and then Spanish. Venice and the Papal states (of course) were pretty much the only states strong enough to back up a claim to sovereignty, and otherwise German mercenaries and later Spanish soldiers dominated the battlefields of the Italian wars, with the Italians themselves being most notable for their infighting.
If you want a compelling period in Italian military history, that would be the medieval period, and not the Renaissance. The Renaissance was mostly the rape of Italy by other countries.
>>651869
Nearly fought for the Union in the ACW.
>>652558
Why was there such profound interest in Italy by other European powers during the renaissance?
LOMBARD LEAGUE
>>653338
Ripe for the picking
>>650716
one of the Ottoman admirals at Lepanto was also originally from Calabria
>>652515
Not under German officers
>>650693
Lombard League
Venice :DDDD. Memed as a merchant republic, was also a military power. Especially navally.
Sicily if you consider the Normies who set up ther Italians.
Genoa was famous for its crossbows for some time in the medieval ages.
Also the risorgimiento (inb4 France)
>>653338
By the end of the fifteenth century Spain, France and England had strengthened their monarchies and disposed of armies that could outnumber by many times any militia the Italian states could offer.
Add to this the fact that northern italy was the most culturally and economically advanced region in Europe and you get why
>>650716
Italians singular were pretty good, it's when they fight as a modern nation-state they kind of suck
The innovations of the condotierri and merc system of the likes of Venice were at the cutting edge, unfortunately the disunity of the country meant that once places like France caught up they were able to leap ahead and steam roll the Italians
The distinct lack of Italians giving a damn and the disparity between various regions still dicks over the military and it's poor strategic planning and political system ensures it entered conflicts it had no business being in (Ww1 and ww2)
>>653320
exactly
he was incited by Abraham Lincoln in person but Garibaldi refused his offer because it wasn't clear at the time that northerners would abolish slavery.
Garibaldi himself freed slaves in south america.
he was italian and he stopped Muslim troops in Vienna in the 1680s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Eugene_of_Savoy#Holy_League
>>652343
the exact spelling is "Condottieri"
a famous example is the Disfida di Barletta, were there was a tournament between french and italian cavaliers and Italians won
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenge_of_Barletta
L'Armata Brancaleone, and the follow up Brancaleone alle Crociate by Mario Monicelli are two extremely funny movies about Brancaleone, a condottiere, and his pathetic adventures
>>652506
other generals weren't able to create a guerrilla warfare. he was able to work in extremely poor conditions or in normal conditions. not all generals can do that
>>650693
>equating defunct historical states and empires with the modern-day countries that now occupy their former space on the map
GTFO
>>654147
>who is Von Lüttow-Vorbeck
>>654398
>not all
Bag of piss
Post cool dagos
>>651826
fuck Cadorna!
>>652558
actually they were great political and militar men like lorenzo il magnifico and castruccio castracani
>>654236
We are talking about ethnicity, and the Italian master nation was the backbone of the Principate and even the late Republic before they started to allow non-Italians(before Caracalla, only Italians for the most were citizens) into the ranks and the army.
except now times when OP didn't sucked ass in grammar
You have to understand that Italians don't lack bravery, or that they somehow carry a gene that makes them rubbish at large scale wars.
Italians in general find the concept of fighting for a corrupt government absurd, and we don't do it. Also to put your life on the line for some abstract concept like patriotism equally absurd. Italians are loyal to their family first and foremost, then their village or town, then their region. That's where it ends really except during football matches where everyone is Italian.
There is nothing to be gained from patriotic fervor and regimes quickly forget the people who come home maimed or don't come home at all, so Italians don't buy into it.
As for bravery, well if you came to Italy and started to cause trouble then the locals would give you the beatdown of the century, or maybe even kill you depending on the severity of the trouble, this doesn't happen in most countries.
Apart from wars we are good at so many other things anyway. Best art, best women, best cooking, good music, good film, good culture, great inventions.
Dying for others is kek material.
>>654837
You guys are awesome.
Can't say I'd want to deal with your countries legal system or bureaucracy mind
>>654837
>great inventions
>>651844
put down that fag real quick gj
>>654896
>>654896
>this fucking guy
>>654837
>best women
can vouch. Competition is heavy because Italian guys are all experienced lotharios but it'd be worth it to look for a wife there
>>654959
And he invented...?
Meme-artist tbqh.
>>650693
Napoleon was bretty gud.
>>656029
He was several centuries ahead in anatomy and medicine
Just unfortunate he had ocd and never fucking finished anything
>>656271
In which respect was he 'ahead of his time'? I know, you have probably his drawing sections of pregnant women in mind.
>>656308
http://www.gharib.caltech.edu/art_and_sciences/leonardo/leonardo-vision-of-flow.pdf
>>651792
France fucking sucked during WWI
>>653392
We can say that about every army during WWI and II
Austro-Hungary was getting killed by serbs and russians.
Slap German Officers
Oh look they're winning
Slap German Officers to Turks
oh look they're winning
Slap german officers to Italians (in II)
oh look theyre winning
Just fucking sucks the wrong side won WWI
>>651991
you should, under him was the only time you were any good
>>656447
how
they were the primary allied fighting power for most of the war, you know, the war the allies had won
