I'm surprised I haven't seen a thread on this yet.
Who was the most influential person in all of history? Michael Hart thought it was Muhammad and I suspect he was right, but I'm open to other arguments.
>>62352
How does one quantify influence?
Serious question.
>>62352
It depends on how you define influential.
Socrates shaped Christian though, which shaped Islamic thought, which shaped Christian though and created the renaissance
Jesus can trace the vast majority of religious beliefs in the world directly to his preachings.
The first caveman to invent fire is indirectly responsible for all of human history.
So I ask you this OP:
Do we attribute later things that happened as a result of ideas created by one man, to that man?
And how far do we take that idea?
Socrates
Ibn Alhazan
>>62650
>Ibn Alhazan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhazen
for west (that includes islam) - abraham
for east (not including india) - confucius
>>62630
Alhazan wasn't actually very influential.
Which is what is so fucking depressing about him.
>Super genius
>Inventing shit all day urr day
>So rigorous he's considered the forefather of the scientific method.
>The only thing that gains any headway is his work on optics
>400 years later people pioneer the scientific method independently of him.
>He gets no credit for like another 500.
It's alleged that Muhammad was a student under a Monophysite monk in his youth, and that this led to his later "revelations." You can therefore thank Constantine for laying the foundations of a Christian Rome. The Monophysite church split from the Roman Imperial church after the Council of Chalcedon in 451. You can therefore thank Augustus for establishing the empire Constantine would later rule, Caesar for setting the conditions for Augustus to come to power, and Romulus for establishing the state that would become the republic that Caesar would eventually take over.
>>62761
Historical revisionism and pop-history should not be on this board. If you want to spew theories, make sure they are supported by reputable sources.
>>62699
If he did not pass his ideas properly on, its no wonder nobody cared about giving credit. Respect is reserved to those that both [re]discovered and propagated the ideas we are led by nowdays, not who came upon that conclusion on their own, said "well golly gee", and left that discovery to his diaries to spook future archeologists
>>62352
Whoever came up with the concept of god.
>>62780
He didn't get the idea of Jesus being an agent of God from nowhere. He clearly had knowledge of Christianity. His deep understanding of the Abrahamic faiths betrays some sort of formal education involving them.
>>62838
It's interesting to note that Abraham is supposed to have lived around the same time as Zoroaster.
>>62838
Why would Christians try to present Muhammad as a misguided Christian? As Islam as Arabian Christianity? It would be better for him to be an infidel rather than a heretic, no?
>>62886
We have no idea when either of them lived assuming either of them did at all. It would be an interesting idea for a novel if they were actually one in the same
>>62901
They believed him to be a heretic and a schismatic. Dante punished him for tearing apart the Church by having demons eternally cut him up, put him back together, and then cut him up again.
>>62865
Of course, he lived in an environment where he was surrounded by Jews and (eastern) Christians. Of course he knew of their religions.
>>62901
>Why would Christians try to present Muhammad as a misguided Christian?
This has been done since the Middle-Ages.
>Dante depicts both Mohammed--the founder of Islam--and his cousin and son-in-law Ali as sowers of religious divisiveness. One popular view held that Mohammed had himself been a cardinal who, his papal ambitions thwarted, caused a great schism within Christianity when he and his followers splintered off into a new religious community
>Muhammad pulling his chest open in William Blake's illustration of Dante's Inferno
>>62691
>Implying
Laozi > Confucius.
Laozi created taoism which influenced every subsequent Chinese philosophy and exerted an incredible influence on Buddhism, and Laozi himself may in fact be directly responsible for buddhism.
>>63053
I mean if he was divinely inspired then obviously he was more knowledgeable.
But to suggest that he was the most knowledgeable otherwise is just silly.
There were Christian monasteries in the region.
>>63053
You should absolutely read Dante for many many reasons, historical education being one.
I would say his education in the Abrahamic religions was not exactly superficial but hardly scholarly given the obvious glaring differences between the Qu'ranic narratives and the Biblical ones. He knew Christians, he knew Jews and he probably picked up some knowledge from talking to them.
I'm assuming that Jesus Christ doesn't "count" (divine nature and all that)?
Then I'd say Muhammad or Karl Marx. At least, those two are the historical figures most worth removing from history to mitigate evil.
>>62780
>muh historical revisionism
What the fuck is there to discuss on this board then, you stupid faggot? If you don't want a discussion then just fuck off to Wikipedia.
>>62691
>west
>including Islam
You're technically right in this case but that's still looks like some good bait.
>>63246
At one point they were more Western than the Westerns themselves
>>63246
i don't. i forgot where i read it but some german historian basically said that west and east division starts at the eastern border of Iran.
Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi
>>62691
I think Aristoteles should be a candidate for the west.
>>63415
Ever read the Cave and the Light?
>>63446
Plato a shit.
>>62979
>and Laozi himself may in fact be directly responsible for buddhism.
lolwut
This question is simply unanswerable. History is puzzle without one piece the whole thing is ruined. Everyone that ever lived effected history in some way and without them nothing would be the same
Western society as we see it today - Socrates
Modern sex culture and human science - Sigmund Freud
Warfare - Alexander the Great
Architecture/building - Imhotep
Medicine - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>62352
Confucius
Plato
Aristotle
Socrates
>>62352
The greatest lawgiver to ever live was the prophet Muhammad.
In a time where religion was more turned to than to the law, Muhammad combined the two so that anyone who is following the religion is also following the law, therefore creating law and order in the middle east that the world had never seen before. Even Europe took after the teachings of Muhammad, and became a much more orderly sophisticated society.
>>63819
>Whenever he would have "visions" he would foam at the mouth, growl and have convulsions
Clearly its demonic possession
>>63819
>mfw early Americans thought Muhammad was a supreme lawgiver
It is true, he literally turned a system that put faith over reason and morality, to equate religion with reason and morality. Muslims were told to be critical and analytical when being presented with ideas
The Qur'an and Sunnah were probably the first instances of a constitution that outlines the roles, rights and limitations of a state leader
The Supreme Court actually honoured him for being a prominent law-giver
For the western world?
Attila and Constantine
>>63980
I think Mohammed was most successful because of the submition rituals built into Islam. Apparently when muslims do that praying thing, hormones that can be found in Stockholm syndrome situations will be released and they do that 5 times a day their entire life.
It's not hard to see why people would come to love a system like that.
>>63980
They were referring to a different Muhammad you dimwit
I am pretty sure the Muhammad prophet wasn't alive in 1935. Muhammad is literally the most common name in the world, it was probably some american lawyer named muhammad
fucking hell, Muslims and their taqiyya
>>64139
Oh sure, because any lawyer named muhammad has the title of Prophet, right?
>>64180
That would be a pretty ballsy title to have as a lawyer.
>>64180
shit i didn't see the word "Prophet" before Muhammad
>>63980
http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/northandsouthwalls.pdf
Muhammad, among with Moses, were always considered the biggest names in the history of law.
>>63077
The only one he went to was in Basra as a child. Most of the people in the Mecca area were idol-worshipers and Jews in Medina. He used to travel to Syria often though.
>>63980
If only a similar reformation had happened within Christianity...
Think about it, this system made the unhospitable desert known as the Middle East into the greatest hub of thinking, science, and mathematics alike. A similar system in Europe would be 10 times bigger, and therefore much more effective than the middle east.
I would bet dollars to donuts that we would be living in a much much more advanced world today if that was the case.
>>62352
I'm not so sure about Muhammad desu. Just because the religion itself spread quickly, doesn't mean that Muhammad himself was influential.
Religions are memes after all, and as far as we know, after he conquered Medina, the religion might've spread just by word alone.
>>64357
define memes
this is important
>>63980
Was this after he flew to the moon on a horse with a woman's face and cut it in half then put it back together?
>>64357
>welcomed into Medina and was already at peace with Jews
>conquered
True, there was conflict between one of the three main Jewish Tribes but it was hardly enough to say he conquered Medina.
The Quraish of Mecca did come to battle at Uhud and Badr though.
>>64437
it's a metaphor. you don't really think that the world was created in 7 days, and that earth was created before the stars and the universe
>>64504
>it's a metaphor
This muslim doesn't think so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHvxiQbQ37I
>you don't really think that the world was created in 7 days, and that earth was created before the stars and the universe
I'm not religious, nor do I follow religion so no
>>64570
forgot pic
>>64570
The number of days in which the earth was created is never specified in the Qur'an.
>>64590
I didn't ask you the number of days in which the earth was created. Are you even paying attention to your own post?
I asked do you believe that mohammed flew up to the moon on a horse with a woman's face and cut it in half
>>64570
There are also Christians that seems to think that everything in the Bible are hard facts.
>>64715
I didn't ask about the Christians. Why are you avoiding my questions?
But since you brought it up.
Do you believe everything the koran says?
>>64558
>And Syria at the time was largely Monophysite
[citation needed]
>>64776
Not even him. Just saying that people from all religions consider their teachings tl be facts.
>>64330
Are you high or just retarded?
>>64812
>Not even him
Then stay out of it
This is between an atheist and a muslim
and I want to know if he believes what the koran says
>>64812
It's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Stop avoiding the question and answer it.
>>64812
Only muslims believe that everything in the koran are hard facts straight from their allah or whatever
>>63819
He copied everything from Talmudic Judaism
Either John Lackland or Simon de Montfort.
Magna Charta is the most important achievement, at least in political theory.
>>64558
It was pure trade; Muhammed was illiterate and wasn't learned.
>>63446
That book was pretty good, interesting read
>>62352
No Muhammad without Jesus Christ, so Hart thinks its Jesus Christ.
>>63616
Not the same guy, but the fundamentals of the Tao Te Ching are also the core ideas behind buddhism
>>63280
What about the Stans ? Afghanistan doesn't seem that different from Iran. Pakistan on the other hand is clearly "indian"
>>64806
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monophysitism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_Orthodox_Church
"Monophysitism and its antithesis, Nestorianism, were both hotly disputed and divisive competing tenets in the maturing Christian traditions during the first half of the 5th century, during the tumultuous last decades of the Western Empire. It was marked by the political shift in all things to a center of gravity then located in the Eastern Roman Empire, and particularly in Syria, the Levant, and Anatolia, where monophysitism was popular among the people."
>>65084
>>65084
>"Monophysitism and its antithesis, Nestorianism, were both hotly disputed and divisive competing tenets in the maturing Christian traditions during the first half of the 5th century, during the tumultuous last decades of the Western Empire. It was marked by the political shift in all things to a center of gravity then located in the Eastern Roman Empire, and particularly in Syria, the Levant, and Anatolia, where monophysitism was popular among the people."
>That whole paragraph doesn't have a single source
>"popular among the people" suddenly means "Syria at the time was largely Monophysite"
>>62352
Want to know the most inflential person in human history? The first human.
>>65126
Gonna need some source criticism on that.
>>65119
It was though, the Syriac Monophysite church was centred in Antioch. It's not my fault you know nothing.
https://www.ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/EVEISLAM.HTM
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=2211088
https://books.google.ie/books?id=YJPn3-rRjC0C&pg=PA389&lpg=PA389&dq=monophysite+syria&source=bl&ots=aWyaeQNFbi&sig=dva5ZR8kLP5tGJaz983enRorZVI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCGoVChMI7Jbl54HyyAIVx7IUCh0cVg0w#v=onepage&q=monophysite%20syria&f=false
https://books.google.ie/books?id=Qf8mrHjfZRoC&pg=PA599&lpg=PA599&dq=monophysite+syria&source=bl&ots=1e4ZVn7lKr&sig=2xPiuWdudvEV03zEjMoLWwpRLlw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCWoVChMI7Jbl54HyyAIVx7IUCh0cVg0w#v=onepage&q=monophysite%20syria&f=false
>>65281
None of your sources corroborate your statement. Even your unsourced wikipedia shit doesn't say syria was largely monophysite.
>>65376
Yeah, like you've even read any of them. The academic journal on its own is enough, but it seems even book articles detailing the origin of the Syriac rite, the Syriac church, and why Monophysite was popular in Syria, isn't evidence of anything.
Again, it's not my fault you know nothing.
>>65376
Further more, those pages were sourced, but I doubt you even bothered to look. You're just being an anally retentive retard for no reason, it's honestly pathetic.
>>64558
Syria had a shitload of Nestorians too, particularly the further east you went.
>>62780
>revisionism
Islam being a Christian heresy was well known at the time, and recorded by contemporaries who spoke of them as such, not to mention much of the Quran is lifted directly from Syriac texts.
>>62352
Definitely Muhammad.
People still kill people in his honor thousands of years later
The first guy that put a sharp rock on a stick and decided to go kill something with it
Muhammad was just a warlord, the development of Islamic religion came later as an afterthought when Arab armies had to justify their rule.
t. Tom Holland
>>62352
Jesus Christ
>>65478
The main reference for Monophysitism is the archives of the Syriac Orthodox Church, including the archives of the Patriarchate of Antioch. If you can't trust them, I don't care.
"From Syria the Monophysite doctrine spread into Armenia to the north and Egypt to the south. In Syria and Mesopotamia the number of its adherents has been on the decrease ever since Islam became the dominant power in those lands."
https://books.google.ie/books?id=hDQqzz-tLgUC&pg=PA372&lpg=PA372&dq=monophysite+syria&source=bl&ots=Z_lqVSvMxs&sig=-6ENE9AOvvhzttqaMitgl2tA45o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAjgKahUKEwjl0MCoh_LIAhULchQKHSb7ANs#v=onepage&q=monophysite%20syria&f=false
>>65522
In the east, yes, along the Persian border, but the coast and middle region were Monophysite. It's part of the reason why the Rashiduns were so successful in Syria, the Monophysites were oppressed by Constantinople and wanted Arab dhimmi status.
You're going to have to start with the Greeks.
>>65607
Everything you said is a fringe academic view.
>>65716
>"From Syria the Monophysite doctrine spread into Armenia to the north and Egypt to the south. In Syria and Mesopotamia the number of its adherents has been on the decrease ever since Islam became the dominant power in those lands."
Where the fuck does that say
>Syria at the time was largely Monophysite
Islam also spread to China, that doesn't china is all muslims. Nowhere in that phrase it implies that they were "largely monophysite"
>>62501
How many subhumans chant in support of you
>>64139
Oh hey its the Finnish JIDF guy. Go back to /pol/.
>>62352
Honestly surprised no one's said Zarathustra. Founded the first widely accepted monotheistic religion before Judaism or Christianity (Atenism doesn't count; it wasn't widespread or influential and died with the man who "founded" it.). He introduced the concepts of a single, all powerful god, and a single source of absolute darkness and evil. As well as the ideas of heaven and hell as we know them. Christianity, Judaism and Islam pretty much owe it all to that guy.
>>68460
It's literally right where the link would have sent you had you actually looked at it.
Let me say it to you in simple terms. The Syrian Monopshysite church, which used the Syriac rite, was the largest church in Syria. The Romans oppressed the Monophysites, so they allowed the Arabs in. If Monophysitism wasn't the dominant faith in the area, none of this would have happened. A small sect doesn't overthrow the Roman military, a small sect doesn't spread across the known world as Monophysitism did.
>>68998
He was mentioned a while back.
>>70024
>It's literally right where the link would have sent you had you actually looked at it.
Then fucking quote it.
Because none of the shit you gave me or quoted says that, at all
> If Monophysitism wasn't the dominant faith in the area, none of this would have happened. A small sect doesn't overthrow the Roman military, a small sect doesn't spread across the known world as Monophysitism did.
Tell that to the christians, a small sect. That's a lot of assumptions there, do you have anything to back up your claim that Syria was largely Monophysite
>>70083
Why would I quote a quote I already posted, and which I already sent you the source to?
Read the actual sources I sent to you and you will see how popular Monophysitism was in Syria. The emperors had to ban discussion of the nature of Christ at one stage, because it was going to tear the church apart.
From one of the previous links I sent you (https://books.google.ie/books?id=Qf8mrHjfZRoC&pg=PA599&lpg=PA599&dq=monophysite+majority+in+syria&source=bl&ots=1e4ZVp4mLr&sig=Sxbce-hDp7VlV06uzHrJ7__abGQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC0Q6AEwA2oVChMIrbvMxsHyyAIVBTIaCh23GQX7#v=onepage&q=monophysite%20majority%20in%20syria&f=false):
"By the mid sixth century, when the alternative Monosphysite hierarchy was being established, we can see that Syria I, Euphratensis, Osrhonene and Mesopotamia had large, probably majority, Monophysite communities."
Syria II and Phoenicia were mainly Chalcedonian, but the Ghassanids were staunch Monophysites. In simple terms, the heart of Roman Syria was staunchly Monophysite. You'd know that if you had read any of the sources I sent you, but you obviously didn't.
>Christianity
>a small sect
At least 10% of the empire's population was Christian before Constantine converted. It was never a small sect, it grew rapidly in the two decades after Jesus death.
