What are some common reasons for conversion to Neopaganism aside from >muh heritage and trying to distance oneself from Christianity? Is there any merit to it or is it just a meme religion?
>>607131
What do you think?
Of course it's just a bunch of bullshit.
Going for any relegion that's not a mainstream in your area is likely to be bullshit, but fuck even if you picked a real one like say... Jainism I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.
Seeing you are neopagan is literally the same as saying you are neonotchristion. It doesn't mean anything.
It's just a meme.
For example, I come from Ireland and we have no idea how our pre-Christian religion worked or who the Gods were. Our conversion to Christianity was entirely peaceful and the Church didn't do anything bad here until the formation of the modern state. All our fame and significance in the medieval period was thanks to our Christianity.
That doesn't stop overweight townies from dressing in bedsheets, painting their faces blue (which wasn't ever even done here) and destroying ancient standing stones
>100% drue Druid :DDDD my ancesdors sgream my name :DDDDD
>>607131
Neopaganism is the newest form of autism
Austists think their edgy and cool for worshiping some fucking trees
It's half edgy teenagers and half rabid nationalists, and it all blends together into a terrible revisionist and not-at-all-genuine pile of shit.
>>607566
>mfw a trinitarian talks about 'autistic' ideologies near me
>>607131
>over 20% neopagans in Lithuania and Armenia
This is some major bullshit.
>>607131
All religions are meme religions. That said, I know a few followers of asatru. It's basically Idol worship more than anything else.
It's all crap desu
African traditional religions are beautiful and living, sure some African Americans convert to it to get away from Christianity but I mean they were only Christian for the past three centuries and ATRs are continuous.
Palo
Santeria
Voudou
Candomble
list goes on
>>607131
Thelemites tend to be cool but the rest of the lot are as you said.
Freedom of religion
They just stop being cuck and doing what their great great grandfather did 2000 years ago
>>607131
All religions are memes, some are just bigger or lesser memes.
>>607131
Christianity is a foreign religion made by non-whites.
>>607131
As a native European spirituality, it is better suited for the European landscape than the Abrahamic desert religions.
>>608767
I'm pretty sure that doesn't make sense
>>607131
It's a huge meme; firstly, because we don't know anything about the religion of our (Slovene here) ancestors save for the names of some of the gods, and secondly because Catholicism integrated many of the traditions of our ancestors into the new religion. Even the concept of the Holy Trinity was present in the beliefs of our ancestors, so was Christmas (albeit under a different name and as a day of remembrance of the son of just one of the many gods),...
You fuckin clowns. All that crushed velvet and patchouli bullshit will be gone in 10 more years. Reconstruction ism is ascendant. Develop the worldview, kick Christian baggage and soteriology to the curb, and I guarantee you'll feel at home.
And there's nothing racist or nationalist about it. Paganisms were tribal religions, and long gone before 16th and 17th ideas about races and nations developed.
You can't resurrect a dead religion senpai
>>608880
You don't know what reconstructionism is.
>>607131
From my experience most neo-pagans are either deluded New World hippies that want to "connect with their ancestoral religion" instead of hopping on the Orientialist bandwagon or they're retarded edgy nazi-type nationalists who're into the kike-on-a-stick view of Christianity.
>Is there any merit to it or is it just a meme religion?
Considering how relatively little information we have on ancient pagan religions (relative to mainstream ones) and how what little we do know are often from contemporaries outside of the religion it's pretty obvious to say that whatever religion neo-pagans believe in is a crude reconstruction at best and complete bullshit at worst.
>>607131
I don't think it's inherently a meme, it's just that the majority of it's practitioners are retarded larpers
Platonic Pagan theology is actually pretty sophisticated, some practicing Geekboo pagans adhere to it, but those ones are super serious about their religion in a way that competes with Christians bishops, most pagans are more interested in having fun than trying to observe a pious lifestyle.
>>608900
Why would your experience be relevant? None of you have the slightest idea of what you're taking about.
And what is this about so much info being lost? We know almost everything you could want to know about Roman religion, we know so much about Greek religion, there is plenty of archaeological, linguistic, and secondary/tertiary literary evidence from less documented cultures, don't forget comparative methods since we are talking IE cultures, and then there are entire fields of study devoted to researching ancient paganisms that continue to develop and reveal new info. You just haven't done the reading.
>>608899
Religions are not just about ritual and scripture, it's also belonging to a community that inherited it from generation before them and pass it to the next generation.
Once it's dead, there's no sort necromancy to revive it. If you try to reconstruct it, it's a new religion.
>>608899
Taking the few bits of information you have and making everything else up. And then a bunch of hippy LARPers run around the woods thinking that "lore" means anything.
>>608941
>Platonic Pagan theology
Any more info on that, sounds interesting.
>>608899
Yes I do, 5% historical knowledge and relic superstition, 95% LARPing
Real talk. The reason for conversion is due to a more innate connection with the ritual aesthetic. When religious programming doesn't take, most are left with a vague sense of superstition. But, we crave ritual. Mainline protestantism lacks it and while the catholic church has it, it lacks much of the esoteric practice, philosophy and methodology of 'inner work' on the outward face.
In short, some people need a defined system of mystic practices done through ritual with an aesthetic that they relate to. Mere prayer doesn't cut it for them. It's what drives one to india.
severe autism
>>607479
>That doesn't stop overweight townies from dressing in bedsheets, painting their faces blue (which wasn't ever even done here) and destroying ancient standing stones
I live near the Burren and it's flooded with fucking English and German hippies who think we're some kind of elves. It's really fucking weird.
>>607131
There onto Earth many monotheists religion faiths conflicting each other and with a lot of stupid mistakes as nonsense about Noah an ark and stupid attempts attack on Evolution idea. Most of them fibbers.
So, how normal people be expected view the spiritual world? Guess, pantheistic view to spiritual world better than schizophrenic view of monotheistic faiths.
All cultures have their own gods, it's just the abrahamitics could had to wave their dick around jizzing all over everyone elses.
>>608949
Are you the same guy as before? If so, again, you do not know what reconstructionism is.
>>608966
Don't expect another reply from me if you won't respond to the points I raise. Where do those percentages come from? Why are you so strongly attached to your premise considering your irrelevant experience observing New Agers? Are you familiar with the material? What academic authors have you read? What languages have you studied?
>>609042
I'm not the guy you responded to but in my country, the old religion existed in hiding until the beginning of the 20th century and we are still left with near to nothing because nothing about the religion was written down.
>>609042
>Where do those percentages come from?
Clearly I made them up, it wasn't a serious post you turboautist LARPer; though it would be nice if you genuinely raised a point and demonstrated successful reconstruction outside of the cultures with written language.
>>609064
What country?
>>609116
Hahahaha. OK. Someone mentioned Asatru a while back, let's go with the example. Mainstream Asatru is bullshit but there are plenty of good examples of reconstruction going on with Germanic paganism. White Marsh. Axenthof. Runatyr. Oethelland. Keeper of Seasons. Any of the people who contribute to Odroerir belong to reconstructionist groups.
These names won't mean shit to you because you are unresearched, but you don't have to stay that way. Read Simek. Mallory. Pollington. Lincoln. Puhvel. Serith. Ellis Davidson. Adalsteinsson. Enright. Antonson. Gunnell. Hollander. And then come back and we can debate whether reconstruction can work. Right now you don't have the reading to back up your statements: literally, how would you know?
I love that you manchildren cry "autism" when someone educates you. I get it, this isn't your field.
>>609012
No, educate me then.
>>609243
Read any of those authors. Can't be clearer.
>>609246
Can't you make concise argument for it?
>>609255
Here is my concise argument: "You can use archaeological, literary, linguistic, and comparative methods to understand the worldviews of ancient peoples."
The worldview is the important part. It does not matter if we know exactly how big the temenos was in Arcadia in 560 BCE if we know it was measured out in proportions based on the cubit length of the priest. Get the worldview and then we can talk.
what pisses me off is when Christians dismiss paganism are just atheists being edgy
REAL paganism, the European religion of the Romans, Greeks, the Norse, Slavs, etc, but also the Egyptian faiths, the Sumerians, and all the way to Asia in India and Mongolia
this is one faith, the Indo European one
it belongs to us, and wanting to re-enact is is not edgy
I'm not attacking Christians, but there are smug and dismissive people (loud voices) who take every chance to be assholes
>>609124
Slovenia.
>>607479
All religions are memes.
>>609471
Except mine that's the real one. All others are stupid.
>>609387
It's Fucking edgy because it dies, no one dissed African nations because it survived Christianity and Islam.
You are larping, they defended their religion and expanded from the West to Japan and beyond.
>>607682
>I'm gonna post a pokémon to show how NOT autistic I am!
>>609511
No, mine is the real one, it say so in my holy book!
>>609531
My holy book which is perfect and right correctly teaches me that your holy book which is wrong and evil and deceives you with lies.
>>608646
No, they just made some shit up to be cool
>>608483
Thelema is not a neo-Pagan religion
93
>>608767
So it's easier to smoke hash in a Forrest than desert hellscspre. Got it
>>608761
Coincidentally it was the best thing to ever happen to white people. Fuck off varg.
>>609550
So let bend that holy books to dogs and make the dog fight with bets, music and sluts!
This is now a low quality thread. I'm heading out, if you're interested in IE paganisms read some of the authors above. Stay in the thread if all you want is to bitch about New Agers.
>>609579
Good goy.
>>607479
plow a sheep caravan dwelling culchie
>>608428
dunno about armenia but the baltics have basically forfeited religion
700 years of holy orders and 100 years gommunism tends to do that
>>607662 is spot on
It is really a shame tho'. It is indeed ethnic heritage and they are in their right to return to it. But most people into it are absolute idiots with no knowledge of the religion or ideological motives to adhere to them.
It doesn't help that in most cases Christianity has done too good a job when it came to make them disappear
>FUCK CHRISTIANITY, LET'S RETURN TO THE ANCESTRAL FAITH!
>reconstruct it solely based on Christian sources
>>608948
>And what is this about so much info being lost?
The celts, slavs, scandies and germanics (to a degree) were converted before they started writing books.
Ergo, we know jack shit about them, as we know about other religions from their texts.
>>608941
I've heard Platonism like a hundred times. Wikipedia says it's a philosophy
Does it develop as a religion or it's just philosophical opinions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoeBRyz2760&index=11&list=PLV1Xd_c5-wta8HSKFx15qdV5L-pm5XvZA
>>609871
He probably thought this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism
>>607131
It's the turbonationalist understanding of world applied to the time when world wasn't really nationalist(in modern sense of the world, nations of course did exist) yet.
>>609574
Exactly
ITT
>guys reconstruction totes works, you don't know shit, you have to read T U V W X Y Z to know, I'm not telling though until you do, just trust me
>>609856
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_mythology
I found this
Apparently they have recorded a good number of celt gods too, according to wiki
>>609514
How do this change the validity in any way? Christianity is fucking dead where I live, people will look on you strangely and think you're in a cult if you declare yourself being religious, yet that doesn't mean I should go online and think everyone that's Christian is a fucking loonies. Or should I? After all, Christianity is a dead religion.
> Oh but it survived somewhere.
So fucking what, same goes with the pagan religions and their teachings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yii0jw9SE9U#t=17m56s
at 17:56
Reminder, you will be torn into shreds by demons in a cube in hell alongside Adolf Hitler if you think you can worship pagan "gods"
>>609462
>in my country, the old religion existed in hiding until the beginning of the 20th century
>Slovenia
As a novice historian I am actually interested in this anon, but you are saying strikes me as the old, refuted witch-cult hypothesis applied to Slovenia.
Do you have any sources I can have? How did you know the religion existed until the 20th century if nothing about it was written down?
>>613186
I am not familiar with this witch hypothesis. I read about the old faith in a book once. It survived in several locations away from major population centres up to the beginning of the first world war. The followers of the old faith kept their rituals a secret and claimed to be Christians in public because of persecution.
I tried looking it up and I found several sources on Wikipedia, but they're all in Slovene so I don't think they'll be much help to you.
>>613201
Nah post them anyway. I can't read Slovene myself, but even a shoddy google translate would help me get an idea. The title of the source with date of publication would be good too.
>>613238
I. Pavel Medvešček (1992): Osvatina - poganjski ogenj. Etnolog 2, št. 1
II. Pavel Medvešček, Rafael Podobnik (1992): Skrivnost in svetost kamna: zgodbe o čarnih predmetih in svetih znamenjih na Primorskem. Založništvo tržaškega tiska, Trst.
III. Pavel Medvešček, Rafael Podobnik (2006): Let v lunino senco: pripovedi o starih verovanjih. Taura, Nova Gorica.
IV. Osvatina-poganjski ogenj (documentary)
V. Jelenk-sveta gora starovercev (documentary)
VI. Čop Joža (2006): O Črnem biku ali Čarnem juncu. Studia Mythologica Slavica IX
It's really no use since you'd have to find them somewhere and I doubt they're online.
The Wikipedia article is here: https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staroverstvo#Slovenija
>>613238
>>613248
Okay, I actually remembered now that Studia Mythologica Slavica is online.
Here's the link to the sixth source: http://sms.zrc-sazu.si/pdf/09/SMS_09_Cop.pdf
Here's the link to every edition of Studia Mythologica Slavica: http://sms.zrc-sazu.si/Si/kazalo.html. The articles are in different languages.
>>613253
Because there are a lot of words in the text that are from dialects and that Google Translate wouldn't understand, let me do a write-up of what the text is about.
The author writes about the mountains, how the locals would pick flowers there and how it all changed with the railroad and tourism. He writes about some rituals performed by the people there. They believed in the holy black bull and cow and believed that the bull was the guardian of the holy mountain lands. The old people seem to have prayed in very old prayers that combined Christian and old beliefs.
>>609602
Aren't those the Cymru?
>>613366
No problem. If you have any other questions, I will come back to check on the thread later. I'm not an expert on the topic of Slavic mythology but I know the basics (mostly the traditions I have experienced in my life and also some I have read about).
>>612488
Those stories were recorded by Christian scribes, who probably changed things and filtered them for a Christian audience. I don't know much about the case in Wales, but for Norse mythology, Snorri framed all of the mythology as fallen Christians worshiping real people.
And knowing stories doesn't mean we know how the religions actually worked. Celtic religion is a great example of this, because Druids were basically the only ones who knew the intricacies of the religion and performed rituals. They didn't leave any records, so we don't know anything about Celtic religion besides the names of some gods, basic stories, and a few guesses.
I have friends who are pagans, don't see a difference between worshiping nature or your sky god. At least they aren't trying to actively spread their religion through brainwashing.
>>608941
>most pagans are more interested in having fun than trying to observe a pious lifestyle.
Like the ancient ones, only some of the philosophers cared about morality in a sophisticated way during the ancient world.
>>612505
The world is largely Christian so no Christianity is not dead. Africa Traditional religions still exist with 100 million people in Africa alone with tens of millions in the Americas and Europe.
European Paganism has been gone for centuries, please just accept reality. You're playing a game using Christian sources centuries after its death. It's not real
>>613772
>Traditional religions still exist with 100 million people in Africa alone with tens of millions in the Americas and Europe.
>and Europe
>European Paganism has been gone for centuries
You're sending mixed signals, friend.
Jokes aside, as I have written in one of the posts above, old beliefs were still followed in some parts of modern Slovenia up to the first world war. Who knows, some may still follow them.
And even if nobody follows them today, I wouldn't say those beliefs are dead. Christianity (in our case Catholicism) integrated many of the traditions of our ancestors into the religion and many of those old traditions are still followed today.
Neopaganism is a joke, though.
