How were blacks perceived during the medieval period?
>>602170
They weren't, since there were none in Europe.
They weren't
>>602178
There were a few slaves, but they were most likely only regarded as exotic possessions of the uppermost nobility
>>602170
man, that's some fucking fashionable equipment
From what I understand, sub-Saharan blacks were more or less ubiquitous in the Islamic world during the Middle Ages. How were they perceived in those societies?
>>602207
The fact is most medieval dirt peasants would have never seen a black person and would have no frame of reference by which to judge them. They'd be a very curious oddity.
>>602209
Why aren't there that many blacks in the Islamic world today?
They were monarchs and stuff.
As heathens, 'cept Ethiopian Christians.
>>602226
i heard they castrated all the males
>>602226
What is West and East Africa
>>602226
Not really that many blacks in SEA.
>>602226
There are.
See: Afro-Arabs, Sheedi, Makrani, Sudani, Upper Egyptians, etc
>>602209
The arabs were pretty fucking racist from what I remember. They were definitely the lessers.
>>602226
The Arab has hijacked Islam and uses it for political purposes (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Mauritania, Morocco, Libya, etc)
I've heard that an Englishman would view an African man the same way he would view a Frenchman.
He belongs to a different kingdom. The Zimbabwean is as alien as the German. There is no conception of "race" under the confines of a modern definition. There are no Europeans until the later renaissance, when the age of exploration contextualized the globe for the White man. There were simply English Scottish German French Italian Polish Spanish Turkish Russian... Et cetera
Totally different mind frame regarding race back then.
>>602257
This is sort of true.
In medieval times, race was not as important as culture and even more importantly, religion - which was the prime signifier of identity.
This was true for both Christian and Islamic societies at the time.
>>602250
>were
>>602370
WUZ
>>602374
He was implying that the Arabs were not only historically racist, but still are. Sorry that this wasn't the right opportunity for you to use one of the cool /pol/ memes, kiddo.
>>602191
Source that black slaves existed in medieval europe
>>602378
>Sorry that this wasn't the right opportunity for you to use one of the cool /pol/ memes, kiddo
>sorry
>,kiddo
>>602170
perceived by who?
>>602397
whites have never seen a black till the 1500s.
>>602226
There has been a great deal of ethnic conflict in the Muslim world.
>>602408
Islamic armies that incorporated the Ghulam or Mamluk military systems had black soldiers and white soldiers (Slavs or Circassians) serving side by side as early as the 9th century.
>>602413
>ethnic
No.
Religious, yes.
Unless you include the Mongol invasions in the 13th century and the later Timurid invasions, both of which saw a lot of indiscriminate killing at the hands of the Turco-Mongol horsemen
>>602414
I have no clue what you are on about, negroes were completely unknown to Europeans.
Less
>REEEEEE FUCKING NIGGERS GET OUT OF MY FARMSTEAD
and more
>Holy shit that guy looks weird
>>602421
1. European whites encountered blacks while fighting with Muslims or trading with the Islamic world
2. The Islamic world in the Middle Ages had Eastern European whites (Slavs), Western European whites (Visigoths), and blacks (from Sub-Saharan Africa) serving together in the same armies.
>>602438
99.99999% of Europeans never saw a foreign race in their life prior to the 1500s, except those who were conquered which is what foreign races mean inside another nation, a conquest.
>>602438
Source ?
>>602257
Because race wasn't a thing until anthropologists made it a thing in a last ditch effort to help support the idea of slavery in post-colonial times. The Caribbean was ground zero for a lot of this hate, and Haiti to this day is an example of that.
Why do most people have a negative outlook on Haiti?
>You can answer that how you like, but it started when they over through the French and killed every white person on the island to end slavery. France would go on to make Haiti pay reparations, despite losing the war, and plunged the new country into suffocating debt they have never recovered from. Oh and they were blackballed from world trade for a fucking long ass time...even now, research where all the earthquake relief money went....
>>602464
you are completely brainwashed.
"The negroes possess some admirable qualities. They are seldom unjust, and have a greater abhorrence of injustice than any other people. There is complete security in their country. Neither traveler nor inhabitant in it has anything to fear from robbers or men of violence."
-Ibn Battuta
"The people of Timbuktu are of a peaceful nature. They have a custom of almost continuously walking about the city in the evening (except for those that sell gold), between 10 PM and 1 AM, playing musical instruments and dancing. The citizens have at their service many slaves, both men and women."
-Leo Africanus
"I went on...to Gawgaw, which is a large city on the Niger, and one of the finest towns in the Negrolands. It is also one of their biggest and best-provisioned towns, with rice in plenty, milk, and fish, and there is a species of cucumber there called "inani" which has no equal. The buying and selling of its inhabitants is done with cowry-shells, and the same is the case at Mali. I stayed there about a month, and then set out in the direction of Tagadda by land with a large caravan of merchants from Ghadamas."
-Ibn Battuta
"I met the qadi of Mali, Abd ar-Rahman, who came to see me; he is black, a pilgrim, and a man of fine character. I met also the interpreter Dugha, who is one of the principal men among the blacks. All these persons sent me hospitality-gifts of food and treated me with the utmost generosity--may God reward them for their kindnesses!"
-Ibn Battuta
"They (the blacks) do not confiscate the property of any white man who dies in their country, even if it be uncounted wealth. On the contrary, they give it into the charge of some trustworthy person among the whites, until the rightful heir takes possession of it. They are careful to observe the hours of prayer, and assiduous in attending them in congregations, and in bringing up their children to them."
-Ibn Battuta
>>602250
Not really. Blacks and arabs coexisted since the pre islamic. One of our legendary heroes is even half black.
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. You know that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone."
-The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH)
"Blacks are physically stronger than no matter what other people. A single one of them can lift stones of greater weight and carry burdens such as several Whites could not lift nor carry between them. ... They are brave, strong, and generous as witness their nobility and general lack of wickedness" - Al Jahiz
>>602489
>a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white
Muhammad confirmed for SJW
>>602499
But- but- I thought race wasn't recognized until the 19th century!!! Skin color wasn't noted, only nationality!!
>>602489
blacks truly are a slave race.
>>602499
>poor lil white boi
>>602470
>white man
Meaning Arab
>>602170
Not really.
>>602512
there is no coherence with the brain dead.
>>602257
>There is no conception of "race"
fucking wrong
>>602469
Plenty of research and articles to back up the claim. A lot of time and effort went into social sciences back then to prove the idea of white superiority. Slaves come in all colors, but when business was booming in the new world, it was the Africans doing the work and the whites profiting. Why would you want to give that up?
Hispaniola was the most profitable island in the Caribbean, and the French - although shorthanded- got their asses kicked by a bunch of slaves and lost out on a shit ton of money...money they would make them pay back to the tune of 150 million gold francs...about what, 20 billion today? There were years that 80% of Haitian income was given to the French and the interest rates were fucking awful.
that debt wasn't cleared until 2009 when they just got the okay to stop paying it.
>>602257
Yeah no. Kill yourself
>>602550
how could they work to prove something that doesn't exist? (race)
>>602554
>Race and its ideology about human differences arose out of the context of African slavery. But many peoples throughout history have been enslaved without the imposition of racial ideology. When we look at 17th century colonial America before the enactment of laws legitimizing slavery only for Africans and their descendants (after 1660), several facts become clear.
>1). The first people that the English tried to enslave and place on plantations were the Irish with whom they had had hostile relations since the 13th century.
>2) Some Englishmen had proposed laws enslaving the poor in England and in the colonies to force them to work indefinitely.
>3) Most of the slaves on English plantations in Barbados and Jamaica were Irish and Indians.
>4) Many historians point out that African servants and bonded indentured white servants were treated much the same way. They often joined together, as in the case of Bacon's Rebellion (1676) to oppose the strict and oppressive laws of the colonial government.
>In the latter part of the 17th century the demand for labor grew enormously. It had become clear that neither Irishmen nor Indians made good slaves. More than that, the real threats to social order were the poor freed whites who demanded lands and privileges that the upper class colonial governments refused. Some colonial leaders argued that turning to African labor provided a buffer against the masses of poor whites.
>Until the 18th century the image of Africans was generally positive. They were farmers and cattle-breeders; they had industries, arts and crafts, governments and commerce. In addition, Africans had immunities to Old World diseases. They were better laborers and they had nowhere to escape to once transplanted to the New World. The colonists themselves came to believe that they could not survive without Africans.
>>602554
it would be as if I was working to prove dragons, no?
>>602554
>>602580
>When some Englishmen entered slave trading directly, it became clear that many of the English public had misgivings about slave-trading and re-creating slavery on English soil. It was an era when the ideals of equality, justice, democracy, and human rights were becoming dominant features of Western political philosophy. Those involved in the trade rationalized their actions by arguing that the Africans were heathens after all, and it was a Christian duty to save their souls. By the early part of the 18th century, the institution was fully established for Africans and their descendants. Large numbers of slaves flooded the southern colonies and even some northern ones. Sometimes they outnumbered whites, and the laws governing slavery became increasingly harsher.
>Toward the end of the eighteenth century, the image of Africans began to change dramatically. The major catalyst for this transformation was the rise of a powerful antislavery movement that expanded and strengthened during the Revolutionary Era both in Europe and in the United States. As a consequence proslavery forces found it necessary to develop new arguments for defending the institution. Focusing on physical differences, they turned to the notion of the natural inferiority of Africans and thus their God-given suitability for slavery. Such arguments became more frequent and strident from the end of the eighteenth century on, and the characterizations of Africans became more negative.
>>602586
Teach me how the untouched native tribes do not see race.
>>602499
Here are some choice quotes regarding blacks from Muslims
>>602554
>>602580
>>602586
>From here we see the structuring of the ideological components of "race." The term "race," which had been a classificatory term like "type," or "kind," but with ambiguous meaning, became more widely used in the eighteenth century, and crystallized into a distinct reference for Africans, Indians and Europeans.
>By focusing on the physical and status differences between the conquered and enslaved peoples, and Europeans, the emerging ideology linked the socio-political status and physical traits together and created a new form of social identity.
>Proslavery leaders among the colonists formulated a new ideology that merged all Europeans together, rich and poor, and fashioned a social system of ranked physically distinct groups. The model for "race" and "races" was the Great Chain of Being or Scale of Nature (Scala Naturae), a semi-scientific theory of a natural hierarchy of all living things, derived from classical Greek writings.
>The physical features of different groups became markers or symbols of their status on this scale, and thus justified their positions within the social system. Race ideology proclaimed that the social, spiritual, moral, and intellectual inequality of different groups was, like their physical traits, natural, innate, inherited, and unalterable.
>What is so striking about the American experience in creating such an extreme conception of human differences was the role played by scientists and scholars in legitimizing the folk ideas. Scholarly writers began attempting to prove scientifically that "the Negro" was a different and lower kind of human being. The first published materials arguing from a scientific perspective that "negroes" were a separate species from white men appeared in the last decade of the eighteenth century. They argued that Negroes were either a product of degeneration from that first creation, or descendants of a separate creation altogether.
>American intellectuals appropriated, and rigidified, the categories of human groups established by European scholars during the eighteenth century, but ignored Blumenbach's caution that human groups blend insensibly into one another, so that it is impossible to place precise boundaries around them.
>When Dr. Samuel Morton in the 1830s initiated the field of craniometry, the first school of American anthropology, proponents of race ideology received the most powerful scientific support yet. Measuring the insides of crania collected from many populations, he offered "evidence" that the Negro had a smaller brain than whites, with Indians in-between. Morton is also famous for his involvement in a major scientific controversy over creation.
>The very existence of a scientific debate over whether blacks and whites were products of a single creation, or of multiple creations, especially in a society dominated by Biblical explanations, seems anomalous. It indicates that the differences between "races" had been so magnified and exaggerated that popular consciousness had already widely accepted the idea of blacks being a different and inferior species of humans. Justice Taney's decision reflected this, declaring, "the negro is a different order of being." Thus slave-owners' rights to their "property" were upheld in law by appeal to the newly invented identity of peoples from Africa.
>Scientists collaborated in confirming popular beliefs, and publications appeared on a regular basis providing the "proof" that comforted the white public. That some social leaders were conscious of their role in giving credibility to the invented myths is manifest in statements such as that found in the Charleston Medical Journal after Dr. Morton's death. It states, "We can only say that we of the South should consider him as our benefactor, for aiding most materially in giving to the negro his true position as an inferior race" (emphasis added). George Gliddon, co-editor of a famous scientific book Types of Mankind, (1854) which argued that Negroes were closer to apes than to humans and ranked all other groups between whites and Negroes, sent a copy of the book to a famous southern politician, saying that he was sure the south would appreciate the powerful support that this book gave for its "peculiar institution" (slavery). Like another famous tome (The Bell Curve, 1995) this was an 800-page book whose first edition sold out immediately; it went through nine other editions before the end of the century. What it said about the inferiority of blacks became widely known, even by those who could not read it.
>During discussions in the U.S. Senate on the future of "the negro" after slavery, James Henry Hammond proclaimed in 1858 "somebody has to be the mudsills of society, to do the menial duties, to perform the drudgery of life." Negroes were destined to be the mudsills. This was to be their place, one consciously created for them by a society whose cultural values now made it impossible to assimilate them. In the many decades since the Civil War, white society made giant strides to "keep the negro in his place." Public policies and the customs and practices of millions of Americans expressed this racial worldview throughout the twentieth century.
>These are some of the circumstances surrounding the origin of the racial worldview in North America. Race ideology was a mechanism justifying what had already been established as unequal social groups; it was from its inception, and is today, about who should have access to privilege, power, status, and wealth, and who should not. As a useful political ideology for conquerors, it spread into colonial situations around the world. It was promulgated in the latter half of the 19th century by some Europeans against other Europeans and reached its most extreme development in the twentieth century Nazi holocaust.
>All anthropologists should understand that "race" has no intrinsic relationship to human biological diversity, that such diversity is a natural product of primarily evolutionary forces while "race" is a social invention.
http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-02-09.htm
>>602609
Lets see what is true, the one telling me things or the one who is.
Lets end all education regarding race, and mentions of race, we will see if race is simply arbitrary.
>>602629
muslim chroniclers called themselves white?
>>602580
None of your posts disprove racial science or prove that it was invented to justify slavery. This is extremely common in leftist anti-racist discourse. They never attempt to coherently disprove the science of race, they just say "racist pseudo-science!" and move on without actually showing why it's allegedly pseudo-scientific.
>>602629
>WE WUZ SULTANS N SHEEEIIITTT
/b/tier shitposting senpai
>>602647
That's not at all what he said. You're the only one /b/tier shitposting.
>>602641
anything that conflicts with equality and marxist world """order"""" (chaos) is psuedo lunny science.
>>602170
Often they were satans. "Satan has black face and beautiful"
The third most powerful position in the Ottoman Empire was that of the Kizlar Aga, the Chief Eunuch, a post which was always held by a black man.
He was second only to the Grand Vizier and the Emperor.
He had to pay a great price for that power though. No more MUH DIK.
>>602499
The African heart can pump significan't more than an average white person. Although their brain size is slightly smaller, their stronger cardiovascular system means they can take into account more factors on the fly, such as in combat or in sports.
>>602640
Yes actually, if you looked at the context of that guys quote, it was talking about how blacks were superior to arabs, who were white in comparison
>Al-Jāḥiẓ also wrote a book entitled Risalat mufakharat al-Sudan 'ala al-bidan ("Treatise on the Superiority of Blacks over Whites"), in which he stated that blacks
... have conquered the country of the Arabs as far as Mecca and have governed them. We defeated Dhu Nowas (Jewish King of Yemen) and killed all the Himyarite princes, but you, White people, have never conquered our country. Our people, the Zenghs (Negroes) revolted forty times in the Euphrates, driving the inhabitants from their homes and making Oballah a bath of blood.[19]
>>602170
They were just... there. Sure they looked different, but I have seen many images of "Moors" done where they have little difference in their appearance other than skin color and hair texture. They aren't shown as apes or lesser beings like they were later on and [unfortunately still] today.
>>602694
Look at your own picture. The black has a different skull shape and nose shape than the white, like he would in real life.
>>602694
there weren't there, they were unknown.
What did blacks think about whites and arabs when they encountered each other?
>>602703
WE
>>602694
That's not even a medieval picture. It was made in the mid 1500s, by which time slavery had already taken off
>>602703
>think
no written language, inb4 b& for stating fact, 90% of blacks today are illiterate.
>>602705
>>602703
>Please enslave me
>ok
![Bosch,_Hieronymus_-_The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights,_center_panel_-_Detail_women_with_peacock[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Ug8gpKC.jpg "Bosch,_Hieronymus_-_The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights,_center_panel_-_Detail_women_with_peacock[1].jpg")
>>602551
>>602536
the concept of race didn't catch on in Europe until Europeans became invested in the African slave trade.
Africans were present in small numbers in parts of Europe at various points during the middle ages, usually as merchants or members of mercenary companies.
>>602714
Actually, the people of the sahel used modified arabic script to write their own languages, as did the swahili
Even the Ashanti king used scribes.
Most blacks are literate by the way.
>>602703
Arabs and Blacks had been interacting with each for a long, long time - thousands of years before the coming of Islam.
One of the greatest heroes in pre-Islamic legend is Antar ibn Shaddad, a black Arab.
At the same time, it's implied (both in the Antar legend as well as in Islamic accounts) that the Arabs looked down on the Blacks and saw them as inferior.
>>602170
The vast majority of Europeans probably never saw a black person until well into the 20th century
>>602727
what the fuck are you smoking lmao.
>>602226
They are literally viewed as slaves
>>602257
Othello is proof that this is bullshit
>>602727
>merchants
No. They used middlemen such as the Byzantines or Italians
>mercenary companies
For the Roman empire/byzantine empire yes, for medieval kingdoms no.
>>602727
Africans never stept foot in europe till recently, even in colonial times bringing blacks to the mainland was called jewry.
>>602447
Most Medieval Europeans had never seen a lion before either, but that didn't make lions unknown to them.
![aaeeb7a8a08f382108e8a05d69994e25[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UJqTHFG.jpg "aaeeb7a8a08f382108e8a05d69994e25[1].jpg")
>>602761
They've been visitors and inhabitants of Europe for well over a thousand years. I don't know why you guys are so passionately insistent that they weren't.
>>602776
because it doesn't fit their narrative, obviously.
>>602767
False equivalency. Lions still existed in parts of Europe during ancient and even medieval times. The imagery of lions was spread from ancient Greece down to the romans and to medieval kingdoms from there. There was also lions in North Africa and the middle East until the last hundred years, so that made knowledge of lions pretty widespread in Europe as well
>>602703
The people of Walata in Mali had great contempt for white/arab men
They refused to speak with them directly
The Nupe had a "kill on sight" policy towards arabs and whites for much of their early history
I know of one east african king who referred to arabs and whites as "dirty little crop-headed barbarians"
>>602816
And the Roman slave machine did the same with knowledge of people with really dark skin for Europeans.
St. Maurice wasn't just a coincidental guess by some Medieval writer who thought "What if this guy had black skin? He'd be one of a kind!"
>>602464
>killed every white person on the island
Maybe they shouldn't have done that.
>>602837
>le st Maurice was illustrated as black so that means Europeans must've been familiar with blacks
I guess there were giant sword wielding rabbits in medieval Europe too, since there are contemporary illustrations of them
![Encounters-Greek_Attic_Vase[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hkMXukG.jpg "Encounters-Greek_Attic_Vase[1].jpg")
>>602776
another Janus vase for you guys, 6th century
>>602870
woops, meant to say 6th century BC
>>602703
The first Arabs and whites most Africans saw looked much like themselves.
Both were terms that were cultural and less phenotypical.
>>602867
No, it would mean there were rabbits and swords in Medieval Europe, and depictions of Maurice would only mean that:
a) European artists and clergy knew there existed people who had black skin (and curly hair and thick lips and noses). They also thought there were other weird shit in the world, but on this point they had Roman sources and reality on their side.
b) Medieval armor looked the way Maurice wore them, not that black people in Roman times wore Medieval knightly armor.
>>602870
That doesn't look like something the average person would've owned. It wouldve been expensive and imported from Egypt. I think an important distinction to make is the upper class' knowledge of Africans vs the lower class' knowledge of Africans. Surely the educated upper class would be aware of blacks in some vague sense, but the lower class would have no way of knowing, at least until the 16th-17th century, and even then blacks were very uncommon
>>602761
There's been black slavery in Italy through medieval times, although most slaves there were Greek or Slavic
>>602226
Islam will never admit it, but they see blacks as generally venal and untrustworthy. Yes, many blacks are muslims, many of them to just rebel against Christianity as the "white mans religion" when in fact they convert to a religion where, behind closed doors, they use the word "black" synonymously with the word "slave."
It's the same shit when women convert to Islam. If you think Islam hates blacks, holy shit, just read the Koran for the wacky adventures of Moe and his thoughts on women. I will never understand how a woman, especially a fucking "soul sista, rivet rosie" type would even contemplate converting to the most patriarichal, chauvanistic religion on the planet (maybe in living history) and then turn around and say Moe cared about women's rights.
>>602893
>It wouldve been expensive and imported from Egypt.
No, it would've been made in Greece. There's several of these in museums. Black people, or Aethiopians as the Greeks and Romans called them, were present in small numbers and they were typically sub-priests for various mystery cults because they were considered exotic and possibly magical by people.
>>602923
>Islam = Arab now
Fuck off with that /pol/shit, Stormnigger
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White" - Mohammed
>>602870
and here's a bust of Memnon, who was one of Herodes Atticus' favorite students who was described as Aethiopian.
>>602931
Nope. If they made any in Greece they would've been copies of Egyptian originals. Stop trying to make it seem like blacks were common in ancient Greece. Greeks knew of blacks only through their contact with egyptians
![Janiform_aryballos_Skythes_Louvre_CA986[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BuLERKz.jpg "Janiform_aryballos_Skythes_Louvre_CA986[1].jpg")
>>602966
I never once said they were common, only that they were there.
Go ahead and show me your proof that these are copies of Egyptian originals though. As far as I know janiform kantharoses are firmly Greek.
What exactly are we arguing about here?
Ethiopians were common enough in the Levant in Roman times for them to even be in the Bible. Some were probably traders, some were servants. The Ethiopian mentioned in Acts is a eunuch.
It's perfectly possible that Greeks and Romans from the Italian peninsula travelled to the Levant and Egypt and saw sub-Saharan Africans, albeit East Africans.
Then they would go back and tell traveller's tales.
- I saw one guy wearing 3 earrings in one ear and a ring in his nose! Weird
- Then I saw a guy with black skin and really curly hair but with white teeth and a red tongue! Even weirder
- Then I saw a woman with her hair tied up in some kind of scarf and tattoos all over her arms! Weirdest of all
They wouldn't have viewed sub-Saharan Africans as different in kind from other people with unfamiliar colours, hair, clothes etc.
>>602966
Nobody said common, retard
>>603091
>>603099
...what on earth does this have to do with the thread or with history?
>>603099
>>Racist niggs
Why not? Old form of racism was invented by tribal nations even in Stone Age.
Destroying a tribe-nation Neanderthals and a tribe-nation Mammoth was typical extremist proto-racism.
>>603107
/pol/ "logic"
>>603115
>WAT
Seriously man, learn to english before trying to history.
>>602489
Yeah and Jesus told Christians to love each other, but being mean to each other=profit.
>>602170
"Wow, wonder where that guy's from?"
>>602230
Still heathens though since it's not the "right" type of Christianity.
>>602748
Iago wanted to Moorish dick bad.
>>603176
No, "heathen" referred to people who did not believe in any of the Abrahamic faiths
They would be considered schismatics or (if they were feeling particularly unfriendly) heretics. There's a big difference there.
>>602684
>their stronger cardiovascular system means they can take into account more factors on the fly, such as in combat or in sports.
and being bulls.
>>602735
>At the same time, it's implied (both in the Antar legend as well as in Islamic accounts) that the Arabs looked down on the Blacks and saw them as inferior.
but then bilal was black, which is why arab girls love BBC and arab men whine that BBC takes their women
>>602226
southern iraq has a little under 1 million black arabs
>>603122
This.
>Mohamed was a warrior who lead wars of conquest and jihad
>Jesus preached peace and literally knew he was going to be betrayed and did nothing forgiving Judas for betraying me
>EBIL CHRISTIANS LE INQUISTION LE CRUSADES
>But islam is a religion of peace
Marco Polo said that Blacks were ugly as fuck, literally the ugliest in the planet, but besides that they describe them to be like anybody else, they had rice, drank some weird wine, rode camels to war, and so on. He described the ones of eastern Africa, tho.
>>602170
>How were blacks perceived during the medieval period?
vaginal
>>602923
>yes, many blacks are muslims, many of them to just rebel against Christianity as the "white mans religion"
Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X are not the average black Muslim.
>>602940
Yeah that's why Ottoman Empire had lot's of black eunuchs in their own and precious palace.
>>602207
WE
They were very redpilled against them.
Back then people weren't afraid of Political Correctness and would say it how it fucking was.
Everyone knew blacks were inferior, from the Greeks to the Anglo-Saxons. If Caesar was around in Hitler's time he would have supported him without question.
Shame you people are too blinded by your narrative to see the truth.
A potentially interesting thread, completely ruined.
>>603607
In ancient times, attitudes towards blacks were variable and many times positive. Also, the Greeks, Romans and their successors in physiognomy, the medieval Muslims believed the peoples north of their climatic zone were just as "inferior" as the peoples south of it.
>>603619
Um no they didn't?
Name me one fucking black Emperor? Yeah that's right.
They were viewed as a dynamic race of inventors, explorers and builders of civilizations.
>>602170
Probably the same as a guy with an unusual hair colour. An oddity or novelty at most.
>>603625
How about a whole list of them?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Emperors_of_Ethiopia
>>603316
Is it obligatory for these random non-sequitur posts to pop up all the time?
>>603625
>being this much of a pleb to not be aware of Ethiopia
I sincerely hope you're not one of those MUH CHRISTIAN YUROP types because Ethiopia was a bastion of Christianity in East Africa.
>>602990
>What exactly are we arguing about here?
Dishonest historical revisionism to justify emotionally charged agendas.
>Ethiopians were common enough in the Levant in Roman
I am positive you can not prove this. The question then is, why do you believe so ardently in something not based in fact?
>The Ethiopian mentioned in Acts is a eunuch.
"So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[a]
[a]That is, from the southern Nile region"
New Internationale Version
The southern Nile is not necessarily Ethiopia. It's a vague region related to Egypt. Your one example is guesswork related to fringe Egypt.
Certain people want to make the modern political programme of multiculturalism more palatable so they are trying to rewrite history to suggest as if it's always been this way. People always try to pull this propaganda shit with their pet issues. If they want to booster Capitalism then suddenly Capitalism wasn't developed around the 1600s (at very early estimates) but has always been a thing and is in fact the natural state of man. If they hate women then all societies have always been patriarchal. If they are a Chinese nationalist then China secretly invented everything first.
>>603607
Come on youre pulling that out of your ass
>>603684
You're being silly. Not everyone who argues or disagrees with you is medievalpoc or believes "POC" were half the population.
Also society A or B being multicultural (you really mean multiracial, that's what bothers you) shouldn't have normative implications.
After all, it was generations of Nordicists Northern Europeans who tried to use "miscegenation" as one of the causes of the fall of ancient societies. The few Afrocentrists/leftists/etc. who argue similarly but from a "multicultural" perspective are a drop in the ocean by comparison.
>>603720
>Also society A or B being multicultural shouldn't have normative implications.
It shouldn't but it does. People propagandize because they are politically threatened by a racially homogeneous Europe.
>After all, it was generations of Nordicists Northern Europeans
You're doing it right here. Because these people who I politically have a problem with... history is suddenly this way. No, it doesn't work like that. History doesn't change because of who you have a problem with.
>(you really mean multiracial, that's what bothers you)
I'm bothered by the fact that you can look at color video of the ancient yonder days of 1960 in most European countries and see with your own eyes how non-multicultural even someplace like London is. It's a NEW THING. This is verifiably true with your own eyes and I can't stand that people will go to such lengths to lie about this.
Look at an Eastern European country like Poland or Moldova for example. Still probably 1,000 times more multicultural than what it was 600 years ago. Try to find any blacks or arabs. The idea that 99.9% of people in the medieval even knew humans with such divergent phenotypes even existed let alone had a common opinion is a joke.
>>603761
>You're doing it right here. Because these people who I politically have a problem with... history is suddenly this way
Nope, you misunderstood. I was saying that the same interpretations Afrocentrists and leftists bring up were brought up by people we'd consider racist today for generations upon generations (though it isn't like there was some unanimous agreement but it was historically important) with much more intensity but just as much cherrypicking than anyone on Tumblr does today. It tied into my whole "shouldn't have normative implications" point.
>Look at an Eastern European country like Poland or Moldova for example
There were more Jews and gypsies relative to their total population and both were part of multiethnic states. The nation state in Europe has brought a homogeneity that never existed before.
>>603761
Hold on, I take my word on one thing. Post Mongol invasion people in the East probably heard or saw that Mongols or whatever they were calling them had weird fucked up faces (from the European perspective). Before something like that though, people are not going to have a clue.
Keep in mind this is before any mass media. Most can't even read. They couldn't even get their own history right. If you look at Medieval depictions of their own past or the bible ethnicity, technology, flora, and fauna are all fucked up. They had no sense that their immediate surrounding villages were not how the world is everywhere and has always been.
>>602170
Exotic.
A few late medieval monarchs had black people as trumpeter, guard and ensign (carrying a banner).
This board is just /pol/ with dates isn't it?
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=31752&highlight=african+europe
>>602727
Faggot stop pushing that bullshit
>>603457
They also had shitload of black sea men who got equal pay etc like everyone else.
>>602727
They still used some tribal names though, so the Swiss were often called the Almaynes and the French the Frankish, Bretons, Picardians, Gascons. In fact I'd dare say France had at least six races living within it's borders.
>>603908
yeah, europeans just love black sea men
What's with the stormfront faggots and /pol/tards in this board? I thought those were banned here.
>>602923
>Moe cared about women's rights.
He kinda did.
Of course, this is compared to before, when they were burying babies alive in the desert sand for being born girls, so you can't go downhill from there.
Still, it was an improvement.
>>603973
>burying babies alive in the desert sand for being born girls
Why can't we go back to those times?
>>603976
Edgy.
>>603986
Maybe, but necessary.
>>603861
No, it's just one retard who's not posting any evidence for his argument and spewing /pol/ bullshit.
I like this board, there's still some rationality to many of the posts.
>>603976
but then there won't be 1 woman for every man, Chad would get the last remaining women and we would end up as cucked eunuchs
>>602438
>>602421
>>602414
>>602408
He's trolling bro.
>>604017
The goal of mankind should be developing an artificial womb and making women obselete. They aren't really needed for anything else.
>>602923
>Islam will never admit it
You mean Arabs will never admit it. The Quran says that to God there is no differentiation between race and tribe, each individual is judged by their piety.
Also Islam as a legal system was one of the earliest to grant woman rights. Right to inheritance, ownership, and right to initiate divorce.
Is it equal? No, but for it's time was progressive it's time and region.
>>603316
>Muhammad was a warrior who taught people to obey Jesus' message of peace in submission to God
You can't compare the two because Jesus plays an important role in Islam.
It'd be like a Jew comparing Jesus to Moses to prove a point against Christianity.
That being said many biblical figures were warriors
>Soloman
>David
>Samson
>Joshua
>Gideon
So, you might want to calm down.
>>602499
That'd be Asians
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_Olympic_weightlifting
>>603968
I still haven't heard any good reason why I should be opposed to stormfront or /pol/ other than "they hurt muh fee-fees" or "they hold different opinions than me so they should be banned"
>>604725
Nobody has those critiques. People dislike them as they are often factually incorrect, have poor etiquette (most of their posts consist of memes "WEE WUZ KINGZ" "Kek. OK Ahmed"), are very obnoxious, and act as if they no the secret truth unlike people who actually study things.
>>604752
"factually incorrect"
I never saw idiots like you disapprove anything /pol/acks state.
>>604761
Just fucking leave.
>>602250
They were less racist than the Berbers. Read on the Berber revolts and it's repercussions on Islamic Iberia.
>>602207
What shit?
>>604761
Well that's a shame because nobody cares what you've seen or haven't.
Most people on 4chan (aside from the underage/shitposting boards) dislike /pol/ due to its idiocy.
>>604752
Sorry, I'm still not convinced since you are obviously have an agenda
also
>act as if they are a paragon of intelligence and logic
>can't even spell "know" properly
sorry, PCfriend
>>604765
Nice argument.
>>604784
It's a command, not an argument.
>>602470
>between 10 PM and 1 AM, playing musical instruments and dancing
Worst neighbors.
>>604097
Comparing Mohammed to Soloman, David, Samson is a fallacy.
He should be compared to Jesus.
Both were the original men who spread the religion of theirs, first.
>>604778
>most people dislike /pol/
Are you high? Most of 4chan IS /pol/
>>604792
Back to your safe space.
>>604782
An agenda? What do you mean by that? I dislike a board so I've got an ulterior motive?
And lad I'm on my phone, I don't give a frig about little typos. You may as well start shouting ad hominem.
>>604786
Why would I be angry? What does your post even mean? Can you post without chucking memes in?
>>602748
>Othello
>Shakespeare
>Medieval
Yeah, no
>>604800
He is one of these fools from QA that bitches about /pol/ 24/7.
>>604800
And most of 4chan is shitposting or underage. Work on your reading comprehension.
>>604801
Ironically /his/ actually is supposed to be a "safe space" from /pol/, it's right there in the damn sticky.
>>604815
>Heh that's a fallacy dude!
You have to be over 18 to post here.
>>604812
Did you not read your own post?
>Most people on 4chan (aside from the underage/shitposting boards) dislike /pol/ due to its idiocy.
You implied the majority of 4chan disagrees with /pol/. We don't.
Everytime we get a thread on non-european history /pol/ will show up saying something along the line of "lol niggers" 'we wuz kings'.
I'd dare say half of the threads on this board are just /pol/ boogeyman shitposting.
>>604803
Just let it go anon these /pol/fags won't leave here unfortunately. Just get used to the childish memes they post.
>>604826
Yes we do you can't talk reason with /pol/ they always resort to shitty memes.
>>604826
If you re-read you'll see that I meant the boards that aren't hives of shit or underage bonanzas.
Try reading some children's books.
>>604826
>We don't
>4chan being a collective that understands other peoples ideals and beliefs
Stop
>>604831
Also this
>>604835
>resorting to personal insults means you lost.
>>604839
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecutory_delusion
Exactly that is what /pol/lacks seem to suffer from.
>>604839
You still haven't re-read. I was excluding the shitposters and underage when I said most of 4chan. You really need to just take a few moments to read things more closely.
>>604841
Who are you quoting?
>>604848
Your mother. She is a very intelligent woman, you should listen to her more.
>>604855
I fucked yours last night ;)
>>604815
>and shiz
Fucking leave.
>>604858
My mom is dead. And yours would be very disappointed. But she still loves you anon.
I am not white, I live aroubd whites and I do not discriminate on the basis of skin color, is it then so hard a concept to have this be the same back then? Are you all racists looking for excuses to justify your racism?
This might be the worst thread I've ever seen on this board.
>>604867
You must be new.
>>602694
Why are they fighting with farm tools?
Their poses and clothes suggest they aren't just random low-lives having a skirmish.
Also, is that an Hapsburg jaw? The white guy looks a bit "off".
>>604845
you clearly said " most of 4chan is shitposting or underage"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/most
Simple Definition of most
:almost all : the majority of
: greatest in amount or degree
>>604866
People tend to believe that they are more advanced than their ancestors. Therefore they assume
>if race relations are bad now, how bad must they have been then!
>>604866
Anon you must be new here this is normal for every /pol/ infected thread they can not understand that people in the past were ok with multiculturalism.
>>604873
Novelty. Trying to fight with agricultural tools for shits and giggles.
>>604879
People were not normally ok with multiculturism, but it was more along the lines of
>germany vs france
Than
>whites vs blacks.
>>604882
Most weapons evolve from farming tools.
>>604874
Yes, in another post.
Me: Most of 4chan *(excluding shitpost underage*) dislikes /pol/
Interlocutor: Ah but most of 4chan is /pol/
Me: Most of 4chan (this time it is *including* shitposting and underage, else I'd have said) is shitposting and underage.
Does that clear it up now? Can you put 1 and 1 together?
>>604879
May I ask what city/town you live in?
>>604884
Maybe north western euope was an exception as it was poor for a long time but what I meant is that since the romans and probably before them there were huge multicultural and multiracial societies which functioned well.
>>604890
I live in a small town in the Netherlands won't say more friend
I wonder what percentage of /pol/ are 'muh heritage' Americans.
>>604884
Medieval France had a couple of different regional cultures, around 1500 the Gascons for example were scarcely considered French, the Bretons were and odd occurrence too and they probably thought it quite a feat the Basque people could walk on their hind legs. In Provence you see people disowning their sons because they spoke 'ile de France French instead of the local language. Flanders you say? Absolute barbarians.
>>604887
Evolve are are inspired by? That's a big difference.
>>602601
Already posted retard. You know, in a demographic of millions you can find at least a few people with literally any opinion. This image proves literally nothing.
>>604892
Are you a grill?
:3
>>604897
Romans were multicultural by the standards of their time, but not so much by our standards. Conquered people couls become citizens, but they would almost always remain on the bottom rung. (Empire was a little more accepting than republic, oddly enough)
>>602650
What are you, a fucking toddler?
>YOURE FROM /B/
>NO YOU ARE
Fuck off.
>>602209
I remember reading ibn Khaldun saying they were fun, loud, and good workers but were licentious, and would steal. He ascribed it to their climate, for a similar reason he said Egyptians don't plan ahead because Egypt is too hot while Moroccans are apparently very level headed and will plan ahead because the altitude is higher. There was also the Zanj rebellion that must have been scary and 1001 nights has two kings cucked by black guys and more black bulls later.
The Arabs of pre and early Islam were a little racist but not too much. They weren't considered beautiful and tended to be slaves but that didn't stop some mostly half blacks from becoming prominent. Antar ibn Shaddad was a Jahiliya hero that resembled Arthur. He was a slave but had a noble father, he fought, got to marry his pretty light skin cousin and get money. Some of the companions of Muhammad were half black and did okay in life. Zaid got to marry Zaynab who was noble, rich, beautiful and light skinned but later divorced. Bilal was respected. Later Muslim African kings would always claim to be descended from him.
>>602226
There are quite a few, Egyptians for example are mostly in between but you see some that are very white or very black. Plus Muslims African countries.
Historically most blacks were women for harems. They would thus be mixed with other colors. The men that would come would be castrated or mix in too. Really Islamic societies were kind of like the Portuguese, racist sure but not as much as others and we can still mix. Apparently Ethiopian/Abyssinian women were highly prized, I've heard some people say they're nice looking generally in these times as well. Of course those Circassian women were hgher on the list. I think even today in the gulf, Eastern European prostitutes fetch higher prices and Africans at the bottom, under Asians.
>>604897
I may have used the wrong word when i said evolve. Before professional armies began, armies were mainly just peasents who supplied their own weapons. Normally, they used farming tools, which were on hand. In combat, they saw which tools worked best, and reshaped them slightly to work better in combat.
(Sorry for poor spelling, on cell phone.)
>>602714
Do you guys think any /pol/acks are really autistic enough that they believe their edgy deep-south racist bullshitting? Or is it all just meant to be ironic?
>>602748
This dumbass thinks Shakespeare is medieval. Why are you on this board?
>>604889
lets see:
>originally claim
"Most people on 4chan (aside from the underage/shitposting boards) dislike /pol/ due to its idiocy."
>when arguing
"most of 4chan is shitposting or underage."
which directly contradicts your first claim
>when backpedaling
"Most of 4chan *(excluding shitpost underage*) dislikes /pol/"
presumably "shitposting and underage" is included in this group since you did not mention them only a group of posters known as "shitpost underage"
"Most of 4chan (this time it is *including* shitposting and underage, else I'd have said) is shitposting and underage."
which contradicts your last statement because you mentioned "shitposting and underage" were in the anti-/pol/ group
>Does that clear it up now? Can you put 1 and 1 together?
finishing with an ad hominem and a personal, like a true SJW
>>604892
So you live in an area devoid of the "multiculturalism" you believe in?
>>604933
They have daily quotias of crossboard shitpostings they have to make.
>>602776
>b-but muh narrative that conclusively proves that all Europeans are racist/all niggers are dumb/slash
>>604951
link to the daily quotas?
>>604949
Dude there are indonesians, turks, morrocans and black people from three different islands here its pretty mutliculti
>>603231
The girl on the left is black and all three of these people are French.
>>604960
Forgot about the chinese , poles and now syrians
>>604951
As a regular of /pol/, /his/ is really not on the radar for crossboarding. People who enjoy politics usually also enjoy /his/, which is why you see a similarity.
>>602816
That actually seems very equivalent. Arabs as well as Byzantines were obviously very aware of blacks, so couldn't imagery of them be passed on in the same way as that of lions?
>>604017
Read Corydon by Gide and become gay.
>>603457
Just imagine what a black eunuch looks like
>>604920
>Before professional armies began, armies were mainly just peasents who supplied their own weapons. Normally, they used farming tools, which were on hand. In combat, they saw which tools worked best, and reshaped them slightly to work better in combat.
I am afraid that is not really correct.
For the majority of medieval history the spear reigned supreme and I am unaware of any agricultural uses for it.
Bardiches and Dane axes are polearms but they were designed with war in mind and are not really related to woodworking axes. Once you get to the late middle ages you start seeing things like halberds and bills. The later is often said to have evolved out of the agricultural bill but there isn't really evidence for some form of intermediary step between purely agricultural tool to weapon, sure someone could have looked at the general shape of a bill and thought it might make a good weapon.
>>604970
There are two mosques in my town if that helps
>>603583
WUZ
>>602867
>just reiterates the previous statement but with the word "le" at the beginning
This is how kids on /pol/ actually think arguing works.
>>604826
>we
i ain't you n you ain't me nigga
>>602170
It depends on the country. The west african empires trade a lot with the muzzies and the christians. From most accustomed to least: Andalusians, Iberians, Silicians South French and Italians.
Anyone from Aquitaine outwards would be pretty scared about them.
Nobles, of course, are weirdos and would enslave them just because they were exotic (same applied to African kings and well, nobility in general. Weird little shits)
Outside of Iberia, to the common peasant?
Demons. Actual fucking demons. The average farmer would flip the fuck out. City Dwellers and Freemen may have seen them before but would still be superstitious as fuck.
If you were black and happened to land there by yourself you'd probably be lynched. Or maybe expelled just in case killing you may curse the village. You best bet would be to find protection from the nobles, assuming the nobles don't freak out too.
>>602209
Islam spent most of it's time conquering africa so they are quite used to them. Ethiopia iirc has a holy land for harboring Muhammad himself during a bad campaign.
>>602940
Islam is an ethnic religion mate. To adopt Islam is to adopt Arab culture.
>>604097
>It'd be like a Jew comparing Jesus to Moses to prove a point against Christianity.
Moses: Here are the 10 commandments. Obey them, and god will love you. Disobey them and perish. Now God’s people will go to Israel, God’s land. I will die leading God’s people to the promised land
Jesus: Obeying the 10 commandments is not enough to be holy. Even thinking things which go against the 10 commandments is sinful. Now I will go to die in Jerusalem, the center of Israel to fulfill god’s commandments.
Mohammed: Worship a rock in Mecca. Pray toward this rock 5 times a day when you take breaks from killing non believers. I will die—I mean, miraculously ascend into heaven after marrying twelve women and one 8-year old child.
>>604984
I wasn't referring to medieval history specifically, but the history of weapons in general. Spears are bows were used for hunting before they were used for warfare. They simply proved effective, and were used for that from then on.
Although i admit, i am only going of something i read in a book, i'm no expert.
I may have simply misunderstood the concept it was trying to convey
>>604097
>That being said many biblical figures were warriors
>>Soloman
lol, nope
>…8"But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 'You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to My name, because you have shed so much blood on the earth before Me. 9'Behold, a son will be born to you, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side; for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. 10'He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'…
>>604995
We is the mainstream of 4chan. Most 4chan boards are hiveminds or the users are at least very similar.
>>602923
>Islam will never admit it
Have you really been so propagandized that you genuinely think there's some universal Muslim conspiracy that's out to get you?
>>604867
it started out okay
>>604998
>Islam is an ethnic religion mate. To adopt Islam is to adopt Arab culture.
This isn't true ofcourse you'll be influenced but most muslim nations kept a lot fo their old traditions and outside of mena many still speak their own language and stuff.
>>605004
That's true.
Although it should be noted that hunting spears and bows differ in design from those meant for warfare a lot.
>>605023
I definitely agree. Which is why i think you were more accurate when you said inspired vs evolved.
>>603523
Stormnigger samefag
