Is Islam responsible for "Islamic terrorism" or are those terrorists just people with political grievances that happen to be Muslim?
>Note to mods, this thread is on-topic. It is about religion, and "Islamic terrorism" on western soil has been occurring since at least a century ago, to say nothing of on non-western soil.
About as responsible as Christianity is for catholic pedophiles, or shinto for the war crimes of japanese soldiers in world war 2.
>>580861
i don't think catholic priests are a good example since pedophilia is probably a natural inclination
but anyway, what your saying is that a bunch of murderers who gunned down some cartoonists that made fun of their beliefs weren't motivated by religion and that their actions are comparable to the actions of professional soldiers in a time of war
i'm not convinced
>>580893
M8 look at Buddhists in Sri Lanka and Burma
Look at Hindus killing people they suspect of having beef in their fridge
Look at the various Marxist terror groups
Look at what Mexican drug cartels do to innocents just to show the govt to leave them alone - hint Mexicans are almost all Catholics
When the Jews bombed the King David hotel that was religious
Tamil Tiger suicide bombers weren't doing it for Islam
Switch off Faux News for a couple of hours
>>580861
Christianity can't be responsible for pedophilia in the Church, but Christianity is certainly responsible for Christians bombing abortion clinics and murdering the doctors who practice there.
>>580819
It's responsible in the sense that the fundamentals of their belief give them a good justification for waging war and that their prophet, who is the perfect muslims and an ideal for all of them, was probably the most violent prophet of them all.
It's not responsible in the sense that those conflicts are also a result of western military intervention and stupidly drawn borders from colonization. And islamic terrorism seems often to be linked to wahhabism, a specific belief of islamic tradition.
So, a bit of both?
>>580913
So you're agreeing with him.
If you're saying beliefs have consequences and that these beliefs cause people to sometimes do horrible things, I at least, agree with you.
>>580913
None of those people are actively trying to bring about an end-times war
Only Islam could breed something like ISIS
>>580819
Since Irish Catholics were committing terrorism on British soil for well over 300 years and still are in part of Northern Ireland is Irish Catholicism evil and should Irish Catholics be banned from entering Britain?
>>580819
Far too many Muslims support it for it to be unrelated to the religion, even within non-Muslims countries.
>>580931
lol Jews are trying to bring about an end time war so they can rebuild the temple
And btw have you forgotten the lords resistance army - based on Christianity
Or the Russian rape army that entered Germany
>>580932
If you could provide a link between their belief system, and acts of terror they commit of course they should.
Besides, Britain is a country that regularly bans people from entering based on what they believe, everything from self-described Nazis to Wahhabi Imams.
>>580939
get real you nutball
most jews are agnostic/atheist, and most christians are nominal
islam needs to catch up
>>580942
: Maimonides that “a war to deliver Israel from an enemy who has attacked them” would constitute a Compulsory/Obligatory war. This is nearly a unanimous opinion. Prof. Arye Edrei in Divine Spirit and Physical Power:
[The Chief Rabbi of Israel, Shlomo] Grown stated frequently that the contemporary wars of Israel meet the criterion of obligatory wars because their goal is to save Israel from the hands of an oppressor, and he categorized the Peace for Galilee War [1982 Lebanon War] as such a war.
Therefore, it is permitted under Halakha for Israel to “randomly terrorize [Arab] civilian populations.” Notice also that the fourth “tactical aim,” permitted under Jewish law, also fits under terrorism: “to retaliate for other atrocities by the enemy to one’s own home base and thus deter such conduct in the future by the enemy.” This is manifested in Israel’s policy of “massive retaliation,” which is a euphemism for state terrorism: the goal is to inflict so many Palestinian civilian casualties that it would serve as a deterrent to future terrorist attacks.
Professor Herbert Leventer of Yeshiva University legitimizes “terror bombing,” writing on p.75 of War and Peace in the Jewish Tradition:
If, in an emergency, you engage in the occasional assassination, terror (rather than mere strategic) bombing, killing of civilian shields–you do no wrong, and have no reason even to feel regret.
Adam Aptowitzer of B’nai Brith opined:
Terror is a tool, terror is a means to an end … When Israel uses terror to … destroy a home and convince people to be terrified of what the possible consequences are, I’d say that’s acceptable use to terrify someone.
The truth is that terror is an option to be used by states in order to prevent deaths of their own citizens and others. Acts that take place in Gaza and [the] West Bank, you might want to classify them as terrorists sponsored by the state.
>>580819
Found this description to sum it up well. People fail to remember that religion is a personal belief, and my interpretation of islam or christianity is as valid as an extremists view. E.g. I will say he isn't a real muslim for being violent and ISIS will say that he isn't a real muslim for not fighting. Neither side is right
>>580944
>most christians are nominal
Maybe in Europe, certainly not in less developed countries such as the USA or African nations.
>>580950
What is your point with this wall of text?
>>580950
>The Chief Rabbi of Israel, Shlomo
>>580955
Judaism - particularly Israeli Judaism as most of the academics and rabbis quoted -justifies terrorism and even encourages it
But that wouldn't earn jidf OP his tuition fees
>>580952
Too bad that this personal belief is shared by a lot of muslims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk
>>580939
guys like dick armee and other people in the US government literally believe support and reestablishment of the kingdom of israel is necessary to trigger the end times and the rapture of those to be saved by God and for Jesus to come back and cleanse the earth in the final Armageddon
>>580958
Had to remove bit and pieces due to world count
The Chief Rabbi of Israel, Shlomo] Goren[,] stated frequently in his writings that the contemporary wars of Israel meet the criterion of obligatory wars because their goal is to save Israel from the hands of an oppressor, and he categorized the Peace for Galilee War [1982 Lebanon War] as such a war.
>>580964
Yes, the abrahamic religions are retarded.
More news at 11.
>>580970
Western soil was the phrase OP used
Western soil has been under an abrahamic religion Christianity but OP has his own agenda - as do I but I'll be open about it
Also Hinduism and Buddhism as in Sri Lankan and Burma aren't exactly shining examples
>>580974
Yes all religions are retarded.
>>580913
You're really confusing political and personal ideas for religious ones.
Nothing, aside from islam, in your post, teaches you that that's how you should act. Islam does. Very clearly.
>>580974
>OP has his own agenda
Everyone has their own agenda you mongoloid. Just because he specifically made a thread about Islam doesn't mean he's a JIDF shill, but believe that if you want /pol/tard, I don't really care.
1) Islam is not what muslims do ... its what muslims should do.
2) Islam (a religion) cannot be blamed for the actions of its believers (because people can claim to believe but not follow even the core principles of the religion)
3) There are 1.6+ Billion Muslims in the world && Islam is the fastest growing religion of the world. If it indeed had any 'terrorist brewing' teachings then it wouldn't have so many followers and there would be destruction.
4) This part you might call conspiracy but its not : Majority of the worlds mainstream media (western) belongs to zionists (the rothschild etc) && Zionists are not just the enemies of Muslims but also everyone who comes in their way of world domination.And since they want to rule the world from Jerusalem which is at the heart of the Muslim world therefore the propaganda against muslims.
5) In a world with Weapons of Mass Deception, its very easy to create a group of 2500+ men, pay them loads of money and make them spread chaos and anarchy (and slit throats) (e.g isis) to defame your enemy. Thats what the west is doing (zionists and their puppet world govts) be it for world domination or the resources of the world.
6) The best way to judge Islam is to study it yourself, why take the word of some news channel or forum or whatever! you yourself are best to judge!
Peace
>>581048
Turk friends of mine use this Argument non-stop; Armenia Genocide? Jews. Gezi Protest? Jews. Turkey not really fighting IS? Jews.
>>581056
turkey is IS light, they want their ottoshit empire back
>>581048
While I feel boiling it down to "da joos" is absurd, the link between Zionism and the instability of the ME can't be ignored.
>>581023
Pretty much this
>>581056
It gives them a scapegoat, but riddle me this; why is daesh not going straot to the root of the problem and attacking the israeli state that is situated on phoenician land
>>580819
I also believe that it is all humans who are responsible for any human suffering at the hands of other humans through pur own inactions towards each other
>>580966
This. Also George Bush rambled on to jacques Chirac about how Iraq was 'Gog and Magog' - and Reagan believed the same thing about the Soviet Union in the 80s.
Crazy ass Christian prophecy has literally affected US foreign policy.
Groups like ISIS explicitly use Islamic texts to justify their actions so yes, it is largely responsible http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
Gives a pretty interesting analysis of the Quranic justifications for what they do
>>581023
I have studied Islam and come away even more disappointed than before.
>>581023
If everything really is a Jewish/American/buildaburger group conspiracy why was 9/11 blamed on a secular state that acted as a check against one of the most aggressively anti-zionist states in the middle East?
>>581088
Saddam was weak, had served his purpose, and a vacuum was required to grow the groups that became ISIS. You'd swear it's never been done before.
Free oil is a nice incentive, too.
>>581071
>It gives them a scapegoat, but riddle me this; why is daesh not going straot to the root of the problem and attacking the israeli state that is situated on phoenician land
You don't understand their ideology at all.
They aren't merely some secular Arab group interested in getting justice for the Palestinians or fighting the West or whatever.
They literally believe they are fighting the last battle and bringing about the apocalypse. More than Jews or Christians they hate other Muslims. They have a takfiri doctrine where any Muslims that does not follow their version of Islam, including not swearing allegiance to them, is an apostate and needs to die.
They intend to keep expanding and expanding and fighting and fighting and killing or subduing everyone particularly other Muslims, until the Mahdi and Jesus come.
This is a great article, I urge you to read it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
>>581101
I will take the time to read it, thanks anon. <3 u
>>581099
Why would Israel/the west want the rise of groups like ISIS? And why didn't they make some kind of effort to plant WMDs? If you can make 3 planes full of people disappear you should be able to fake a dirty bomb or something like that
>>581101
They twist the Quran to their own desires.
They are the Khawarij told of by Muhammad.
>Anas ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There will be dissension and division in my nation and a people will come with beautiful words but evil deeds. They recite the Quran but it will not pass beyond their throats. They will leave the religion as an arrow leaves its target and they will not return until the arrow returns to its notch. They are the worst of the creation. Blessed are those who fight them and are killed by them. They call to the Book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever fights them is better to Allah than them.” They said, “O Messenger of Allah, what is their sign?” The Prophet said, “Shaving.”
Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 4765, Grade: Sahih (authentic)
Al-Kirmani said, “Shaving could mean that they shave the head, the beard, and all of their hair, or shaving could be a rhetorical expression for their extremism in killing and contradicting the religious commands.”
>>581116
It suits Israel to:
1) Balkanize its dubious neighbours into tiny competing factions
2) Destroy the "Shi'a Crescent" government in Syria before moving taking out Lebanon
3) Import these groups to Gaza and the West Bank so they tear Hamas and Islamic Jihad apart
4) Generate sympathy for their plight against "Muslim savages"
5) Perhaps even annex some of these lands like they did after the 6 Day War, all it takes it the first provocation
It's telling that they haven't fired a shot toward Israel, the West's reaction to Russia's bombing campaign, and the fact that it's been recorded that Israel treats wounded allies of Daesh (source: http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862)
>“We don’t ask who they are, we don’t do any screening," the official said. "Once the treatment is done, we take them back to the border and they go on their way.”
>>581143
I appreciate there are lots of different ways of interpreting Islam, the fact they interpret it differently to you does not really prove anything.
And I don't personally think Muhammad had magic powers or could prophecise a damn thing so spare me the "foretold" hocus pocus, particularly trying to lever vague crap which involves a discussion over what "shaving" means.
>>580931
>Only Islam could breed something like ISIS
Wut, IS aren't even on the level of the Nazis.
Most people who join IS don't even give a shit about Islam, they just hate the west and like the high wages. It was estimated something around 80% of IS members barely even know anything about Islam on a doctine level.
IS was caused by mass poverty, 2 decades of being fucked over by the west and a power vacuum.
>>581143
I thought the Khawarij were the Khawarij?
This thread was moved to >>>/pol/61537527
