How did holocaust denial really get started? I mean, I thought that the usual pro-Nazi sort of person is glad that Hitler did something about those kikes. Why would they then want to turn around and say it didn't happen? And who else would have a motive for saying it never occurred? But obviously, the movement got started somehow, and persists to this day.
Where did it come from?
> I mean, I thought that the usual pro-Nazi sort of person is glad that Hitler did something about those kikes.
Because the "usual pro Nazi person" isn't a cartoon villain or an imageboard guy who cranks hup his edginess for meme purposes on /pol/. Most people, even nazis understand that industrially genociding people is a wrong thing to do.
>>577272
>the evul nazis killed 4 million people in Treblinka
>wait, it was actually 2 million
>lol, jk 1 million
>no, it was 200k
>actually 400k
>why do people question the death toll of the holocaust?
>>577299
Also the criminalization of doubts. Even if holocaust denial is a crackpot conspiracy theory, OUTLAWING IT is pouring fuel to the fire of the notion that "da jooz" or someone is trying to hide something.
>>577272
>>577285
>>577299
Well.
Thinking that Nazis or Fascists in general don't understand the ambivalence that determines their radius of influence is one of the greatest underestimations one can make.
After Germany got buttblasted and lost all of their territories that they accquired pre ww1 being a classical fascist just fell out of fashion.
>I
>Wonder
>Why.
That Nazi aesthetics become visible again just means that...
>>577272
there are key facts that are up for debate. the six million deaths figure comes from the torah and american newspapers were running it before american involvement in the war and an actual headcount was established.
there were 3.5 million jews in poland before ww2 and 200k in germany. how did germany manage to kill 6 million, and STILL have some 3 million left at the end of the war to migrate to israel?
some of it doesn't add up. no doubt many of them were killed. systematically though? I doubt it.
the pictures we have of them in the camps show evidence of typhus, and we know that german CIVILIANS were starving to death. so it seems unlikely the germans would prioritize prisoners for food shipments
sort of like black people today claiming to be oppressed. they have the press on their side and will just make shit up.
>>577272
The thought is that the Jews invented the Holocaust to strengthen their claim to Israel. Therefore, If the Holocaust is illegitimate, then so is Israel.
You can understand how this line of thinking would evolve over time.
>>577323
Samefag here:
>NEW
>WORLD
>ORDER
I want /his/ to finally acknowledge that it is dead
I will refuse to leave before it finally happens.
t. Anonymous
>>577327
Austria, Netherlands, Romania, Hungary, Belgium, France, Italy, Russia, Denmark and Norway to some degree, Yugoslavia, Tschechoslovakia, the Baltic states
Luckily didn't have any Juice, therefore the thirsty Gremlans Left them unoccupied and alone.
>>577354
Oh i forgot.
>Pic Related (You)
>>577354
Don't forget the big chunks of the USSR that they overran. What's now the Ukraine had the second highest Jewish population in Europe, after Poland, and the Germans controlled almost all of it at some point or another.
>>577357
Yeah. Historical ignorance on my side. I meant to say USSR ofc instead of Russia. Thank you for your headsup
>>577354
>>577357
you're assuming that the germans systematically managed to go house by house and get the jews ONLY out of a vast exanpse of territory that they only tenably control, whilst outnumbered, whilst waging a two front war
no one has ever shown they had the bureaucratic mechanism in place to do so. if this were any other historical event the burden of proof would be so much higher it's laughable.
again, the 6 million figure is a rabinnical cultural artifact. there is no proof over the total numbers, and heavy evidence the majority of the deaths were from typhus.
let's look at japan, whose kill count is similar, they were gunning civilians down in the street and watching the rest run away into the forest. this is WITHOUT constructing a vast military bureaucracy dedicated to feeding, housing, clothing, constructing swimming pools, etc. for the people they were trying to kill
the germans barely had functional factories to produce tanks at the beginning of the war. you're telling me they were building swimming pools?
>>577357
Jews from the USSR weren't allowed to go to Israel well into the 70s.
>>577380
>no one has ever shown they had the bureaucratic mechanism in place to do so. if this were any other historical event the burden of proof would be so much higher it's laughable.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/04/jager-report.html
And you know, you have things like Hans Frank's diaries.
>again, the 6 million figure is a rabinnical cultural artifact. there is no proof over the total numbers
Pic related.
And what about the Anglo-American committee of Inquiry as to Jewish population totals before and after the war?
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/angap03.asp
>and heavy evidence the majority of the deaths were from typhus.
Yeah, they had so much typhus that they needed cremation capacity of 4,756 a day at Auschwitz, enough to incinerate the entire population of the camp in 1942 in a week.
>>577272
>How did holocaust denial really get started?
When the holocaust started to be used in political matters (which shouldnt have happened) to justify unjustifiable things
>>577272
Holocaust denial was actually started by a holocaust survivor : the frenchman Rassinier, a communist, french resistance fighter who got deported to Buchenwald.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rassinier
>>577380
>WeWewWeWeW.
As they were waging a two front war ofc installing puppet governments or kicking their befriended governments into full gear became a german fashion. They just left them to do the handiwork most of the time. While not 100% accurate the eichmann trials revealed that for example the romanians did not even have to be bothered by the germans to purge the romanian jews by themselves.
Big Industrial Companies also profited from the free workforce and the traintracks that let to the Death and Concentration camps were not only used for transporting people. The burden the Shoah took on the bureaucracy was far less than the "profit" that came from it. The 600000 Jews in germany also lived relatively "peaceful" compared to the austrian or polish jews.
You should read up on the wannsee conference.
Rapid industrialization happened before the annexion of poland and austria and the millitary capabilities were already set for growth in that regard. The Occupation of foreign land had to be solidified and therefore the "jewish plague" had to be "purged". That they found zealous supporters in other countries than germany that gladly helped their "effort" and thus established control in their respective countries often goes unnoticed. Antisemitism was present in all of europe. Just "bad luck" that a strong industrial country with a relatively low jewish population, and a huge inferiority complex was so good at showing their neighbors that fascism indeed does push the economy.
Also. Since heritage and inheriting jewish birthright is very important inside the jewish religion and there were kept records of who call what religion their own in every country, and the jewish community was kind of secluded due to earlier pogroms and antisemitic campaigns but also because religious subsocieties tend to organize themselves the toll the shoah took on the beaurocracy was marginal as the civil societies of these countries took the matter basically into their own hands.
>>577465
>TL-DR
Have you ever heard of the word Ghetto and did you know that these also existed way before the 2nd World war.
>PS:
Pic Related also doesn't appear as a Logistically Competent Country (or LCC for the REAL Historians) and look how wonderfully efficient they are at genociding everything you leave them alone with for more than 5 Minutes.
>>577465
again, where did the 6 million figure come from? I never denied that jews died, which is ALL you managed to prove with your post
6 million is rabbinical.
even then, were the jewish purges, purges of jews, or purges of communism?
the jews basically ran the KGB as well, and when stalin decided to clean up the KGB, was he cleaning up jews, or was he cleaning up the death squads which had been targeting gentiles?
it's an easy bait and switch to pull. it could have been accomplished if it were not for act 2, european boogaloo, where the socialist aggressors are once again playing the victim card
>>577465
again, where did the 6 million figure come from? I never denied that jews died, which is ALL you managed to prove with your post
6 million is rabbinical.
even then, were the jewish purges, purges of jews, or purges of communism?
the jews basically ran the KGB as well, and when stalin decided to clean up the KGB, was he cleaning up jews, or was he cleaning up the death squads which had been targeting gentiles?
it's an easy bait and switch to pull. it could have been accomplished if it were not for act 2, european boogaloo, where the socialist aggressors are once again playing the victim card.
>>577538
>>577542
It came from the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, noticing the demographic shifts in Europe from pre and post war.
"6 million Jews" is more or less even with "5 million Jews" and "7 million Jews" in NYT articles decrying atrocities in Europe.
And the Jager report makes it pretty clear they were purges of Jews.
>>577542
>the jews basically ran the KGB as well
Uuh citation? Would be interesting if legit
>>577538
600,000 ya dingaling
>>577558
Considering Stalin outlawed orthodox Christianity but gave jews liberty of cult, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet the kikes were manipulating him.
>>577548
That's not srictly true. The Anglo-American committee of Inquiry said 5.7 million.
6 million is what one of the Nazis at Nuremberg said though.
>>577578
>Considering Stalin outlawed orthodox Christianity
But the churches opened under his rule.
Another mind experiment for the uttermost mentally disabled among you.
Imagine you are taking the train to get to work today.
If you were the only one using the same train route for 10 years of course train infrastructure would hardly be profitable. Ill go as far to make the assumption that if every train was only used by 1 Workforce, governments or private companies for that matter wouldn't even bother building Trains in the first place.
IMAGINE
And to go further I would say that if low cost public transportation was so unprofitable we would probably not have big companies that produce economic output too. Things are weird like that.
First off i want you to imagine that gross production of a country and a company are the same.
Now imagine tho, you would be able to fit so many people into a train and put up facilities that don't require to release them again after their hard day at work to ship them back! As you expand your business model through other countries the trains basically build themselves because where your ambitions go also the train will go. Now imagine that you can easily resupply the people that after a hard day of work simply didnt feel like waking up again in the morning.
Now imagine that the logistic effort to bring people to work in a modern day city like tokyo is bigger than transporting a couple of million people one way over the course of lets say about 6 years, while of course these people require acceptable wages to be motivated to make their everyday trip, lets say someone less fortunate, can be "convinced" otherwise. And all the people that felt so oppressed the whole time suddenly dont have a problem taking the train everyday as long as their work feels as a work of purpose
And now lets also say that among your Effort to expand your territories you realize that the enemies you've made might view your practice Scheme of pushing your gross domestic revenue up as morally wrong I would say you'd do your best to cover it up.
>>577581
You're right. Thanks for the correction.
>>577538
Luckily aside from you claiming the Numbers on the Shoah are wrong your thesis that it is okay to kill 6 million people as long as you're killing Commies is even more retarded and therefore disqualifying itself.
I mean when trying to revisionize historical facts becomes so desperate as to just make up ideological excuses for it you could just relief yourself and pull the trigger already instead of bothering anyone with your mental diarrhea.
>>577578
Gee i wonder which "theory" seems more plausible when looking at what happened in the past 150 years of our beautiful earth. That the juice was trying to eradicate christianity to establish communist rule (much more plausible, especially when seeing how much closer christian culture is to the respective civil societies that went out of feudalism into industrialization) or that the juice was a systematically oppressed (<--LOL) Minority of 9Million people in central europe that so happened to be genocided along the way.
Wait the numbers that can't be there can't add up on one of these sides. We have numbers for one of these occasions. The other simply didn't occur.
I'll go as far to say that Christians didn't systematically get genocided in WW2 (At least not for being Christian) I know it's a bold claim, but the Catholic or Protestant church must be somewhere behind that (<---LOL)
My private theory is that holocaust denial began to make itself known when WWII vets began dying out. The loss of the eyewitnesses to the extent of the killing - whether intentional or thru neglect - and the aftereffects emboldened the deniers.
>>577299
>layman smashes together sources using different metrics and applies bad math to it
>This doesn't make sense! Conspiracy!
>>577323
>That Nazi aesthetics become visible again just means that...
The internet exists
>>577285
>Because the "usual pro Nazi person" isn't [...] an imageboard guy who cranks hup his edginess for meme purposes on /pol/
>even nazis understand that industrially genociding people is a wrong thing to do.
As far as I understand it, it starts with George Lincoln Rockwell and his realization that it would be utterly impossible to sell people on Nazism as long as the holocaust continued to be a thing in the public consciousness.
