Which country has the most legitimate claim to the Roman empire?
Italy, Russia, Greece.... Turkey
>>577079
Italy. The roman empire was latin, italy is the closest we have.
America
>>577079
Ottomans as their claim was recognized by the Patriarch.
>>577079
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome
Russia, then later Finland after the White armies defeat
>>577185
Now this is some revisionist shit
>>577134
>Ottomans are the heirs of the Roman Empire guys! T-there's no way they forced me to say this with a sword on my neck!
t. Patriarch of Constantinople
United states of America.
>>577114
>>577216
shut up
>>577185
>marry some offshoot imperial dynasty member who couldn't even legally inherit the claim
>WE ROME NOW
>>577209
Forcing your way to legitimacy is a very Roman thing to do. From Augustus to Diocletian to Constantine to Heraclius.
>>577223
Difference is that they were all Romans. Meanwhile Mehmet ll was the Romanboo equilavalent of Ken-sama.
>>577219
1. USA is the most powerful empire in the world
2. The founding fathers were heavily inspired by greek and roman states.
U.S.A is basically the roman empire.
>>577238
>USA
>Empire
>>577231
Mehmet II had Komnenian blood if you are obsessed about it but moreover there were plenty of Roman Emperors who were neither of latin or greek stock.
I understand your mentality is "hurr turkshit aint no emprah" but while try to disqualify him, you also disqualify a lot of the roman emperors themselves.
Why does Rome NEED a "legitimate" heir? She ended in 1453, simple as that.
>>577238
Romans did not had the Constitution worship Americans had.
>>577238
dumbest shit ive read on /his/ in a while, nice work
Either Turkey or France. Those are the only possible pretenders.
Not that this isn't a retarded concept in the first place.
>>577256
It was pretty dumb, but you obviously miss all the Marxist posts if you think that was the dumbest shit.
>>577247
>1/16 Byzantine blood WE ROME NOW
>>577248
>but moreover there were plenty of Roman Emperors who were neither of latin or greek stock.
They were still descended from the existing Roman Empire. The Ottomans were a completely different entity completely who just happened to conquer the already weakened Imperial capital.
>>577102
Technically most of the Roman Empire's years were the Byzantine years, particualrly when it was Greek. So doesn't that make Greece the heir?
>>577079
Brazil
>>577251
Rome is the eternal city
>>577274
The roman empire that people respect and admire was latin
>>577302
Funnily enough it was the one that fell quicker as well.
>>577079
None of the above? What is this bullshit about "claiming" an empire that has nothing to do with your own civilization?
I don't remember the Persians rebranding themselves as the Babylonian or Assyrian Empire when they blobbed over their clay, or Alexander theming his conquest the Persian Empire when he did his thing.
>>577318
Latin rome was the beginning of roman empire and republic. it's the oldest rome.
476 - 800: Vacant
800 - 814: Frankish Empire
800 - 1453: Holy Roman Empire
1444 - 1683: Ottoman Empire
1683 - 1815: French Empire
1815 - 1945: British Empire
1945 - present: American Empire
>>577355
>this entire post
>>577355
What is b8? Baby don't b8 me
Baby don't b8 me
No more
Ottomans sold the title Qasr al Rom to the French, Spanish, and Russian monarchies. Russia and France offer their monarchs, meaning Spanish Monarch is the rightful Caesar of Rome.
Not that it matters now of course as the United States is the heir in practice.
>>577185
This desu.
>>577416
Meant to post this
It's almost seriously if you think about it in a inheritance and not a symbolic way.
>>577290
it's a shit city nowadays and has been for a while
it's claim to fame is that it used to be good thats it.
>>577416
Wouldn't that make france the inheritor of the roman empire? how is the illegitimate?
>>577079
Simple answer: no one. The Western empire died in the 5th century when Odoacer kciked the last emperor of his throne. The easern roman empire followed suit later to the Turks. With that, the roman empire was gone.
If you want to look at it officially, either Germany or France, as the remains of the Holy Roman Empire, which was officially stated to be the empires successor by the pope. Of course, that does not mean that they carry any of the culture or historical significance with them.
>>577252
Didn't they? Assuming by "Constitution worship" you mean the kind of nascent ancestor-worship of constantly invoking "the Founders" and regarding "the Constitution" as some embodiment of all that's good and proper, while happily ignoring bits of it that aren't convenient, I'd say the similarities are striking. The Romans also couldn't shut up about their founders and they were forever etching their laws on stone tablets and whatnot.
>>577584
You can't just sell a title
Byzantium was at least a continual successor to Rome, what makes the Ottomans claim? In what way were they 'Roman'?
>>577257
>France
?
>>577735
They had a legitimate claim but of course autist on 4chan won't accept it because
>muslim
>turkroach
>etc.
>>577744
The Roman Empire underwent several ethnic and religious changes during its time, what im asking is what Roman traditions the Ottomans had, i know Mehmet IV was a romanboo.
>>577744
t. turk
there is no proper claim to the roman empire, it fell with the byzantines
ottomans had the most legitimacy though for the ruler was part byzantine, they controlled eastern byzantine lands and they also controlled the orthodox church based on constantinople, the problem is that they didn't follow latin traditions or religions, making them not roman
russians claiming to be the continuation of the roman empire based off of a backseat princess and the russian orthodox church is just pants on head retarded though
>>577238
U.s. was not inspired by the empire at all.
>>577902
At ALL?
>>577902
nigga what?
Maybe not the empire, but they did draw heavily from the Republic.
>>577902
>I call "what is the senate" for 100
>>577252
>implying the Founding Fathers weren't divinely inspired by the Lady Liberty, patron goddess of the divine republic
>implying the Constitution isn't a holy document
>implying America wouldn't be the premier super power if they weren't the favorite of the Gods (founders)
Heretic (liberal) detected
>>577242
>not seeing the republics decline into decadence and empire
>not seeing congressional inaction and increased presidential power as signs of the erosion of the seperation of powers
>not seeing increasing public support of executive action as the public beginning to favor autocracy
>not seeing the rise of socialism as a threat to the constitution a la Gracchi Brothers
History rhymes pleb
>>578013
>the rise of socialism as a threat to the constitution a la Gracchi Brothers
Actually, at least some of what Tiberius Sempronius, at least, wanted to do involved merely enforcing the existing laws. Richies weren't 'aving it.
>>577999
>supports memepublics
>calls others liberals
>>578025
True, but he also favored radical reforms that would've redistributed the land. There's similar rhetoric today for people calling for redistribution of wealth. Also the wealthy flaunting laws is similair in both Rome and America
>>578043
>implying liberals in the 18th century are the same as liberals today
>>577715
Why not?
None has any formally valid claim, Rome died in 1453.
Informally, Italy is culturally and ethnically the closest one overall, I guess, but it doesn't really matter.
Interestingly, during Fascist Italy the Italian empire was called the new Roman Empire by the regime, interesting shit.
>>577242
>he posts from Europe during the longest period of European peace since the fall of the Roman Empire caused by American hegemony and the Pax Americana
>>577079
None, claims to long dead empires are retarded
>>578044
>flaunting laws
"flouting"
Sorry, just saying.
>>577893
This
>>578050
They are, it's just what people call them is different.
Italy gets to claim most of the imagery and legacy as it is where the city of Rome is, but that said Italy does not pretend to be a continuation of Rome or attempt to keep its stats
>>578050
It pretty much is, if we exclude American "liberals".
Russia. Hopefully one day they're start a more Christian version of the USSR, with Greece.
>>577251
Translatio imperii
Basically dick waving and an idea only Rome could unite & rule Europe
>>577902
While it is certainly true that they took most heavily from the republic, the apex of Rome's glory was built during the transition and lifetime of the Empire, so saying they took no inspiration from that time period is asinine.
>>578190
well according to ISIS and their warped teachings they're trying to meet rome in battle at some town in syria which i guess has some apocalyptic significance
but it's generally assumed that rome is just "the west" now in their eyes
Currently none of them, the lineage is dead.
>>578190
You are implying the apocalypse didn't come and we are just living in it.
Austria. Atleast for the Holy Roman Empire.
>>577355
>No Spanish empire
>No Russian empire
>Ottoman Empire
>French Empire
>>578136
Though they appeared at almost the same time, I recall reading that the US "liberal" and the Euro "liberal" were never actually the same; that Euro liberals were your classical capital-L Liberals, while the US "liberal" was a theological term with a modern cognate in "Liberation theology".
It sure explains the current split a hell of a lot better than just the generic idea that "liberal" drifted massively in the US and much more slowly in Europe.
>>578205
>some town in syria
Dabiq. It's what their magazine is called.
They only get like 12 caliphs and they're on their ninth, I think. Should just go kill-crazy nuts on whoever's caliph until they run out.
>>578205
Assume it's Turkey or possibly some current Western army. The prophecy says three other things that are important.
1. The last Islamic State will control the Levant, Jerusalem, and Anatolia.
2. They will face a great general from central Asia that will really hurt them.
3. Jesus will save them at Jerusalem after they've been pretty much defeated.
This means they need to defeat that army at Raqqah. Then there are the Christian prophecies that pretty much line up with the Islamic ones. They're summed up at this - a great Christian king will unite the Christendom and help mend the great schism before defeating Islam. One can think of a number of reasons that a leader might save IS at their last stand in Jerusalem in place of Christ.
It is my belief that this great king is the first Horseman of the Apocalypse.
>>578220
There is the idea that a katechon (that which withholds) must exist to keep the End Times from happening. This is both good and bad since preventing the End Times is desirable for human life as well as keeping the Antichrist at bay but it is bad since then Jesus is not allowed to return.
>>578299
>Then there are the Christian prophecies that pretty much line up with the Islamic ones.
quite insidious, if/when the Apocalypse happens.
>>578299
>a great Christian king will unite the Christendom and help mend the great schism before defeating Islam.
The Marble Emperor will rise again!
>>578282
was I incorrect? dabiq is "some town", it's not damascus or anything important
>>578391
>was I incorrect?
Relax, I just thought you might like to know/be reminded.
>>577470
it doesn't. finland announced their declaration of independence to the bolsheviks, not to the legal goverment. that makes them nothing but a rebelling province among many others.
>>577742
The last remaining piece of the Western Empire was conquered by Clovis in 486, thus founding France. On top of that France also conquered and dissolved the Holy Roman Empire in 1806.
It's Turkey or France, depending on whether you consider the Eastern or Western Empire more legitimate.
>>578440
>Most point to him being Catholic of French descent but not necessarily French in nationality.
Source to where you heard that? Also Constantine XI was a catholic.
>>578514
http://www.onepeterfive.com/did-ven-bartholomew-holzhauser-predict-isis-and-the-synod/
There's the prophecy from Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser. I don't know what the website is.
>>578514
>Constantine XI was a catholic.
Well, Sorta. Depends on how you view it.
>>577231
Heraclius was actually Armenian.
>>578579
He was still Roman.
Rome is Rome.
Anyone that had Rome was the successor. So Italy.
>>577079
The Orthodox Church, of course
>>578646
vatican?
>>578651
No
>>578649
>not posting this one
>>578506
What? Then odoacer was a roman emperor?
>>577079
ERE, because it's not a claim.
>>578735
>has
>>578718
What are you talking about?
>this thread
>>578478
>not to the legal government
After the execution of the Tzar the Russian state lost it's legitimacy over the Grand Duchy of Finland (or some argue that Russia lost it already in 1911 after breaking the Tzars guarantee). To Finns, the highest legal authority had ceased to exist, and the power to control Finland had passed to Finnish senate.
>>577370
>that second line
How do you fuck up that badly.
And I hope all you faggots know that the Roman Empire ended in the 630's. Thanks and bye.
>>577079
Russia/Greece, they carry on the final embers in the Orthodox tradition.
Turkey owes nothing to the Roman empire aside from some leftover ruins.
The country that won the battles that were most decisive at their own points in history over the land that was once owned by the Romans.
>>577247
>>The founding fathers were heavily inspired by greek and roman states.
>So was literally everyone in medieval Europe.
So was all of medieval North Africa and the Levant and Anatolia and Persia west of Zagros Mountains (the border of Iran and Iraq basically).
Also, how the shit can you believe any bloodline? The people with the most power claimed bloodlines. Especially when the only shit keeping track were people...from the family claiming a bloodline who wrote it on paper and rocks.
What's even more retarded is this entire thread is basically fake Christian ideas of what Rome is.
>>578651
>Ctrl-F "Vatican"
>only one person gets it right
>>577102
Epic.
>>577079
It died with the Byzantians
>>577079
Romania, even the Romanian language from the grammatical point of view is the closest to Latin
>>579445
>even
That's the only thing you have, and Italian sounds more similar
>>577079
None, the Roman Empire has been dead and gone for 1500 years.
HRE shouldn't be in the conversation.
Turkey is the true successor to Rome as they descended from Byzantium
>>579437
>>579454
It died when the Eastern Roman empire stopped acting like an ancient empire and reorganized itself after losing its Eastern Provinces.
I would date this to around A.D 610-30. 2 Centuries after the fall of the West
>>579472
Byzantium was more Greek then Roman in character, and was very much not Roman by the time the Turks rolled up. And even then the Turks developed an Islamic culture and empire, completely different from the Roman Mediterranean culture.
>>577355
>Ottoman empire
Since you do not acknowledge Byzantines as Roman, who the fuck do you think the Ottomans inherited the claim to Rome from?
>>579479
>I would date this to around A.D 610-30. 2 Centuries after the fall of the West
It's also when greek became the official language of the empire
>>579479
*than
Otherwise I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU. This date (630's) HAS to become more well known, it's the most logical choice.
Anyway, the Turks did adopt the bureaucratic Byzantine state apparatus to some extent, especially where administration of the only city they had left was concerned.
An empire is a state. The Roman state and the states directly descended from it ended in the 15h century.
It's especially laughable when Italy is brought up considering it was part of the empire for a shorter period of time than the southern Balkans and Anatolia.
I deem Laconia the rightful heir to Rome considering it was part of the empire the longest.
>>577079
Prince Phillip is the pretender to the Roman Imperial throne on the count of his grandfather being King of Greece.
Meaning that when he and the Queen die the UK will be the most legitimate claimant to Rome.
>>580018
Prince Phillip's dad was a pedophile rapist.
>>580018
Sorry, Uncle. Same diff, he was raised by his Uncle.
>>580049
>>580048
That's how you know he's a true Roman.
>>578299
You know Protestants and Muslims scare me, I'll take my religion with free wine and pedophillic priests over obsessed doomsday prophecies. Fucking premillienial dispansaionalists man, can't trust 'em.
>>580062
It's really not a doomsday prophecy since this is supposed to be one of the best times in history.
>>577079
Italy, greece is a close second though.
>claim
There is no claim. Romans were ethnically a Latin people. It's a stretch to even say that all of Italy can "claim" the Roman Empire. Russians are Russian. Not Roman. Turks are Turkish. Not Roman. Stop trying to excite yourselves by claiming that the city and empire sacked in 476 can exist today as anything other than an idea. Fuck.
>>579484
What the fuck are you on about? By your logic, the Mongols that conquered China and formed the Yuan Dynasty were suddenly Chinese.
>>579454
This.
>>580445
Read the post I was replying to you fucking retard.
>>579472
t. t*rkroach
>>577079
Vatican City is the only real answer. I'm not catholic either but they are literally in Rome, have continuity with the Roman Empire through chriatianity, and use Latin and outdated soldiers more than anybody else. Also things tend to be more authentic when they don't claim to be authentic and the Pope really doesn't, who is also a single monarch like the emperors of old, throw around being the new or old Rome. Plus they keep up the tradition of extensive power and the last roman characteristics of small size.
>>577334
>I don't remember the Persians rebranding themselves as the Babylonian or Assyrian Empire when they blobbed over their clay, or Alexander theming his conquest the Persian Empire when he did his thing.
They did, what are you talking about? That is why Alex kept the royal Persians alive and tried to intermarry. The Persians did a similar thing in their rise to power. All of Alexander's men tried to be his legitimate successors hence the body stealing and whatnot.
>>577238
Don't listen to plebs. Europoors are looking for a mirror/clone/heir not a successor. Power goes to the student not the son
