>Build an empire
>Make it last
It seems to me only the romans, turks, persians, and chinese have been able to do this
>>574518
And Ethiopians.
Not to mention China is the only one of those that has lasted.
>>574518
this map brings me back to another time
>>574522
Don't know if you could the Ethiopians an empire.
Also, I didn't mean last until the present, but just generally last for a longer period of time.
>>574532
Ethiopia is almost twice the size of France, m8. It's definitely an empire. It even had an emperor up until very recently that wasn't a we wuz kangs exagerration.
>>574543
If size is all that matters, Canada is also an empire by that logic
>>574553
It also has a population of 94 million.
I dunno why the German empire, or the Napoleonic empire counts but Ethiopia doesn't.
>>574543
That's not how you define an empire, m8
>>574518
>Romans
I was surprised how little they actually lasted (500 years) compared to their influence.
>Turks
The Ottomans supplanted a well-civilized part of the world. The actual horde states were terrible in state building.
>Persians
Cool guys but the states changed all the time and even by foreigners
>Chinese
Lots of changes
>forgetting the Byzantines, one of the longest lasting polities ever and the longest in Europe (1123)
It's weird how such an everlasting empire can just disappear.
Alexander also left a strong Hellenic presence in Asia despite the empire collapsing pretty fast.
>>574558
Except it used to be globally recognized as an empire.
Japan's another empire that's been around for ages and still literally is, we've forgotten about that one.
>>574560
The Byzantine empire was the Roman empire, m8.
>>574567
A rump state
>>574518
Where does this notion that empires never last come from? No state has complete permanence, empires are hardly unique in having lifespans, and it seems to me last longer than their counterparts.
>>574571
Still the Roman empire tho.
>>574553
It has huge, multi-ethnical population as well.
Imo it passes as empire.
>>574574
"Empire" also implies hegemony.
>>574574
Countries compromised of people of single nationality have extremely long lifespans and hold out for long after ceasing to exist.
Roman empire has fallen and ever since every notion of rebuilding it wasn't de facto caused by the will of Romans to rebuild the country.
Meanwhile Kurds have never had an independent country, not counting several vassals of various hordes yet they're still here, currently busy with BTFO-ing ISIS.
>>574560
>I was surprised how little they actually lasted (500 years) compared to their influence.
What are you only counting augustus to romulus?
>>574522
>The only one that has lasted
>Song
>Ming
>Qing
>RoC
>PRoC
No
>>574518
>Rome
Yes. Vatican City and Russian Federation are successor states
>Turks
Mehmet pls. The only reason Anatolia is still occupied is because the Anglos won't let anyone take care of the T*rk problem.
>Persians
ehh. They controlled the Arab caliphates. After the Nader Shah, things kinda went downhill.
>China
There have multiple dynasties of different origin. That doesn't count.
You forgot to list:
>Ethiopia
>Mongols
>>574738
How are the papacy and Russia Roman successor states?
>>574692
Changing dynasties and government forms doesn't mean it stopped existing.
If that was the case France would be only about 50 years old.
>>574738
Found the Slav
>>574518
> mapforants.png
Also, topics like this can be hard bacuase "empire" is not that well defined, and there are always some borderline cases. Does the Byzantine empire count, for instance, or do you see it as a part of the roman empire? Should the HRE, the longest lasting part of Charlemagne's empire count as an empire?
How about Russia? they've been growing since the 11th centuty, and in the 16th century had an empire at least as large as the rest of europe. By the 18th century, they had quadrupled that, and became a serious player in foreign politics. of course, the 20th century is mostly the age of Russia and America, two emerging superpowers defeating the Nazis and battleing for world dominance. Even now, even though the ruskies doon't have nearly the same influence, they ascribe to themselves, they are still a mayor player in world politics. Does that constitute an empire?
>>574848
>changing dynasties and government forms doesn't mean it stopped existing.
Every single dynasty acted as its own state. To say that China remained a single entity would be like saying the Mediterranean nations are all collectively Rome.
>>574738
>>Mongols
>>>>>lasting state
lmao
>tfw Roman Empire was 1.5K years long
No one can beat that, Ottomans didn't even last half as long.
>>574543
A good chunk of that is Somali territory that Britain gave to Ethiopia, during the fall of colonialism.
>>574738
>ehh. They controlled the Arab caliphates. After the Nader Shah, things kinda went downhill.
Are you fucking retarded?
>>575680
>the mediterranian nations are all collectively Rome
I'm okay with this
>>575680
Sounds good to me
>>575680
>Every single dynasty acted as its own state
Wrongo. All Chinese dynasties called their empire China and kept the same institutions such as its bureaucracy and Confucian-based legal systems that were in place since the Han Dynasty. They just added shit over time.
Only difference was the Mongol Yuan Dynasty. As it was both Great Khanate & Chinese Empire.
There's a reason why Chinese History is divided into Prehistory, Ancient, *Imperial,* and Modern.
>>574518
only the Persians were good, if i had a time machine i'd make sure they didn't fall
Do we count the British Empire, because the monarchy there technically still exists and it rules over more than one land mass (The UK).
Or did it die when most of their regions disbanded or were given freedom?
>>574738
>Mongols
an empire of dirt and horse shit.
>>576245
Yeah, because all of the wealth went to the homeland.
They did not give a SHIT about anyone else but the Mongol peoples. And the Mongol peoples basked in it.
Which directly lead to their downfall, too, so the Mongols aren't exactly a very sustainable Empire. Which is what happens when your prime advantage is taken away by better living standards.
>>576149
I think you're talking about Eritrea, which currently isn't part of Ethiopia and was originally more or less ceded by Ethiopia to Italy in the first place.
The Somalian bit of Ethiopia has been part of it since long before the fall of colonialism.
>>576244
Whilst Britain is old as fuck so are most countries in Europe.
However places like Ethiopia and China are literally thousands of years old, making Britain seem quite young in comparison. Not to mention it still hasn't existed for as long as the Roman Empire did by the time it fell.
>>576244
T.B.H. According to Osterhammel modern Major European Nation States are just ex-empires w/ Nation rhetoric. And then you have Niall Ferguson calling them out "LOL EMPIRES DIDN'T DIE."
A lot of Asian Nation States as well. China is more or less the same shape as the last Imperial Dynasty Was.
>>574839
The pontifex is still a position which still holds secular power, albeit over a very small parcel of land.
>>574518
Chinks dont count since they are not humans
Romans, Turks and turkics, Macedon, and probably the Brits with their run around and plant flags empire.
Persians also get a good rating here.
What about Russia?
They still control most of their empire
>>576244
You would of told the Byzantines to fuck off?
>>576010
1000 retard.
>>574518
>build an empire on weak enemies
that's what the turks did
>>577605
Same with Rome. And the Persians, depending on which empire you actually mean by that.
>>577605
>yfw you realize that the Turks would've just another shitty middle eastern tribe if Byzantium wasn't weakened by the Fourth Crusade
what a shame
>>577617
>Carthage
>weak
>>577630
except seljuk turks were already in anatolia pushing for european land before the crusades happened, the crusaders stopped their push to west and the mongolians broke the empire
if anything the fall of byzantium was because of incompetent kaisers and treasonous allies in the west, serbs and other opponents were pushing into the byzantines before the ottomans jumped across the straits
>>574553
Canada oppresses the First Nation peoples the same way any empire should oppress inferior tribal savages. They're an empire in my book.
>>577926
The Byzantines recovered rather quickly after Manzikert and the Seljuks were already fighting amongst themselves. And since Nicaea survived against the Mongols, it's likely that Byzantium would've dealt with them as well. But you are correct about the problem being the nobility being the problem, since the Fourth Crusade was targetted on Constantinople only because of a Byzantine pretender.
>>574558
Ethiopia consisted of a multitude of nations so it was an empire by pretty much any standards.
>>574522
China has fallen like a dozen times. If PRC is counted as the successor of the original empire then the whole West is the successor of Rome.
