HRE best empire.
![voltaire[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/gQBYja9.png "voltaire[1].png")
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>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
>>561347
well actually this is because those regions weren't part of the soviet union during the cold war and the germans tend to be quite industrious
so was hre basically yesteryears eu?
>>561377
At his time it really wasn't.
desu the more I think about it, the more true it seems
>>561347
France
>centered around Paris
>obviously they will turn Paris into their most important region
>England
>London
>same shit
>Holy Roman Empire
>everyone hates each other
>each state builds up its own "Paris"
>eventually form one country
>now the whole country is filled with mini-Paris in each state
It's really not a difficult concept to understand. Bavaria, Swabia, Brunswick, etc used to all be their own kingdoms bro, so of course they will look like that
Its also why Germany has so many famous cities like Berlin, Munich, Dresden, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Lubeck, Cologne, Mainz
How many French towns can you name other than Paris? very few
That's actually a really interesting comparison OP. I would like to see more images of that type.
>>561415
>Its also why Germany has so many famous cities like Berlin, Munich, Dresden, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Lubeck, Cologne, Mainz
lol Germany as the big 4 of Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, Hamburg that's it
Fucking Lubeck and Mainz are no more famous than Marseille or Lyon
>>561439
>tfw vienna and salzburg aren't considered famous german cities
>>561347
Dam, I would have never thought Tuscany was that rich. Lation is surprising as fuck, but I bet that's because Rome is there, otherwise it would be between Umbria-tier and shit terrone tier.
>>561398
like how people quote George carlin, john stewart, stephen colbert etc now-a-days
>>561347
It's Lotharingia that is rich. It has nothing to do with the HRE.
I still don't get why people always talk about the HRE. It's not like it was the most powerful or interesting realm in Europe. Capetian France, or Spain when ruled by the Habsburgs both have a way more interesting history. Yet, most of the time, threads are about the HRE. Why ?
>>562502
HRE sounds a bit exotic and weird, with its oddball decentralised system of electors and shit. There isn't really anything like it anymore, so people are naturally interested in it.
Same deal with Byzantium. Obviously very different from HRE, but still it's something which was once very powerful and significant and is now totally erased, yet leaving many traces behind. So it's interesting, like dinosaurs.
The Holiest Most Roman Greatest Empire is too cool to be forgotten
>>562536
Only Austria can claim the HRE heritage. Germany was created by Prussia and protestant princes that betrayed the HRE.
>>562521
>There isn't really anything like it anymore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state
>>562568
>Failed State
>Existing for almost a millenia
>>562561
Well, that's up for debate. I'm not an imperial lawyer though.
How do you want the end of your empire senpai ?
>>561398
They will quote Louis "please black my wife" C.K
>Coincidence? I think not.
yes certainly this is a result of a 1000+ years old distinction and not of the post 1945 division of europe
>>562561
Prussia, Austria, Bavaria, and all the little Germanies are HRE successor states though. In fact, I'd say Germany has more claim since Austria didn't exist for like seven years.
>>562618
>the post 1945 division of europe
Why are France, Southern Italy, and Spain doing so badly then?
>>562624
they are not doing as badly as the eastern half of europe which is where the division is most prominent and directly caused by the 45+ developemnt
(well poortugal and parts of spain actually are lower or close to than the likes of slovenia or czechems these days, still doesn't change the fact that it has nothing to do with with 1050yo borders)
>>562636
I do notice that East Germany, which was in Otto's HRE, is doing far better than the rest of the former Soviet sphere.
>>561347
>Bohemia not in the HRE
>>562606
Just.
>>561347
>b-but HRE and Germany are interchangeable terms
literally fuck anybody that does this.
>>562650
Have you considered the fact that west Germany had been pouring billions into developing east Germany
>>561439
Cologne is ultra famous (even without the recent ficki ficki fest). Before I got into history and geography (and started travelling) I also knew quite a bit about Leipzig, Dresden, Nuremburg, Hannover, Bonn, Stuttgart, and Dortmund. It's possible that people only know Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, and Frankfurt in America, Canada, or Australia, but doubtful anywhere in Europe. The guy you replied to is 100% right, in Germany even cities with like 200,000 people or less in them can be very important.
>>562871
>but doubtful anywhere in Europe
The kind of people who would know the cities you mentioned in Europe, would most undoubtedly know a dozen french and english cities too however.
>>561347
>Coincidence? I think not
>>562908
Not really, I'd say the average person would just know Edinburgh (popular uni destination for continental Europeans), Manchester (for its recent musical significance) and of course London for the UK. French cities other than Paris are generally very obscure, but I suppose the average person would know Marseilles or Lyons. Individual German cities are just more likely to hold current and historical significance, since any given German city is likely to have been a capital city of something at one point. Also, a lot of people follow German football and would know cities through teams.
>>562933
Be honest buddy, you're german or an american heritagefag.
There's no way that the average guy who knows of Leipzig, Mainz, Bonn and shit doesn't know of Nantes, Strasbourg, Metz, Rennes, Dijon, Lille, Tolouse, Bordeaux, Rouen, etc in France or Canterbury, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow, Inverness, Bath, etc in Britain. Especially if you use the football argument, since EPL >> Bundes popularity wise.
>>561439
Fuck off yank, Lübeck is by far the most famous German city after Berlin for nothern euros
>>562955
I am American but I have lived on both continents pretty much 50/50, I have no idea if I'm German or not nor do I care very much. I can't prove any of them to you because this is all just based on personal experience. I would say people know the regions of France more than any individual cities (Champagne, Burgundy, Provence, Bretagne, Aquitaine, Normandy) because that comes up in regards to France far, far more than cities do. People do definitely know Bonn though because it was the capital of West Germany.
>>563077
>People do definitely know Bonn though because it was the capital of West Germany.
You must be 35+, because no one younger would know that unless they were into history. Bonn is Vichy tier.
>>561377
Daily reminder that the conception of state defended by Voltaire was put in practice during the Jacobin period of the French Revolution and it was such a disaster that it managed to revive French Catholicism as bulwark against it!
Guy shouldn't be an authority on political science. Or anything, for that matter.
>>563455
Could have quoted the post with Voltaire rather than the one with Rousseau.
Well actually it's just as well, you could say the exact same thing about that fuck too.
>Northern Italy escape the push for centralization by the Hohenstaufen Kings of Germany
>become one of the best parts of Europe
>the Low Countries escape the push for centralization by the Capetian Kings of France
>become one of the best parts of Europe
>Switzerland escape the push for centralization by the Habsburgs
>become of the best parts of Europe
>HRE escapes centralization alltogether
>it's former constituent parts become some of the best parts of Europe
>England escapes centralization under absolute monarchs (unlike France, where the Fronde was defeated by Cardinal Mazarin)
>it becomes the leading Empire in the world
I'm seeing a pattern here.
>>561415
The funny thing is that Germans bring this same "decentralization" principle wherever they go, including the economy, which is still based on small and medium sized enterprises.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand
Also, in Brazil, the state most heavily colonized by German immigrants, Santa Catarina, is also known for having no "major city", instead it has a network of prosperous small and medium-sized cities with their own local companies.
Now, if I were a racist, I would say that's becaus Germans are the master race. But since I know better, I would say it's because Germans spent so many centuries living under the decentralized rule of the HRE that they brought it's spirit to them to new lands.
>>561347
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
WE
WUZ
HOLY
ROMANZ
AND
EMPERORZ
AND
SHIET
hehe these krauts
>>563719
>holy
as defender of western european christianity, the HRE earned the prefix holy.
>roman
the empire was roman, not the north-alpine people living in it. quite a difference.
>empire
multi-national dominion, rule over a big chunck of the known world, accepted even by the byzantines as coequal... so whats not imperial about it?
>>563813
>Holy
The empire that was supposed to defend catholicism became the first mutli-religious state by recognizing the rights of protestant princes to practice their religion. It failed to defend catholicism. Spain on the other hand was no infested and converted more people than the HRE could dream of.
>Roman
It's as roman as Russia and Turkey.
>Empire
Failed empire, its borders have no meanings and when Napoléon destroyed it, no one gave a fuck.
>>561398
>>562495
>>562611
>muh "things of today are perfectly analogous to things of the past" meme
I would expect this on reddit but not here.
Maybe Voltaire fulfilled the social niche of a comedian but his social orientation and significance is obviously incomparable to modern era comedians both in magnitude and nature.
>>564188
How do you know?
>>564383
Well the burden of proof isn't on me to disprove shit like "hurrr it's basically the star wars of the 1200's" but
>voltaire is a ruling class, academically acclaimed philosopher who endorsed specific claims which had impact on scholarship and revolutionary state development, for better or for worse, who happened to satirize their world like 99% of philosophers have done
>george carlin gets quoted on facebook, has influenced the niche corner of the entertainment industry centered in funnymen, and will never be partly responsible for introducing an entirely new politics into the world
I don't get why I even have to argue this
>>563001
pfff.. hamburg or even that shithole bremen are far more famous.
What would have been the consequences of the Industrial Revolution for the HRE had it survived the Napoleonic Wars?
>>563911
>The empire that was supposed to defend catholicism became the first mutli-religious state by recognizing the rights of protestant princes to practice their religion. It failed to defend catholicism.
nearly 900 years after the donation of pepin, and the fight against the lombards to save the papal state
ultimately, it failed, but mainly because the character of the empire itself changed overtime. that doesnt change the fact that even the sovereign rulers of the time acknolwedged the Kaiser as the worldly head of western christianity, even if just in a ritual way.
>It's as roman as Russia and Turkey.
both engaged the idea of translatio imperii (altough relating to the byzantine empire), with more or less legit claim.
but lets be honest, the germanic people where the only ones succesfully claiming the inheritance of the WRE, and roman traditions were much more alive in the HRE then they were in russia or anatolia under turkish rule.
>Failed empire, its borders have no meanings and when Napoléon destroyed it, no one gave a fuck.
just as i said above, of course it ultimately failed, because it isnt existing anymore.
but you are generalizing nearly 1000 years of history by just taking the last few years into account.
the empires borders werent the same over all this time, be it the shape, the strength, or the "meaning". but thats the thing with all empires, they have highs and lows.
besides, the dismantling of the HRE was a pretty big deal, i think many people "gave a fuck".
>>562955
>Strasbourg, Metz
>French
What is this,
>Polish education?
>>565567
I am a Pole, and I would say this would have to be French education.
>>561352
I think we should get rid of this meme because it's perpetuated by SJW cucks like John Green and they actually believe that the HRE was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire, even though the medieval HRE was all three.
Charlemagne would look at the "H""R""E" the same way Hayao Miyazaki looks at anime.
