So, Irish /his/torians, are you pro-treaty or anti-treaty? I know the pro-treaty side won the Civil War, but who do you think was ultimately right in the long run?
I mean, Michael Collins said that the treaty was the stepping stone to freedom, and yet we still don't have the North.
What did the IRA and Michael Collins fight for then? Was it all so the British could go "here are your scraps of land, lads."
>>560573
Anti-treaty
yeooooo up da ra
>British
>feel like I should probably care about Ireland
>just can't give a shit no matter how hard I try
>>560598
But the British don't want Northern Ireland either.
The only reason NI is still in British hands is because the Unionists won't fucking let go and migrate to the U.K. already.
Ireland is an arse-averse shite hole
>>560628
Considering Americans suck our cocks, I don't fuckin' fink so, m8.
>>560620
Considering the Unionist are a strong majority there, if anything they should be the ones who get to stay.
NI is rightfully British, micks fuck off please.
foreigner here, how did the situation in NI change up to today? can we foresee a change in the coming decades?
>>560651
Not for long, hun.
Tiocfaigh ar la.
>>560651
The British deserve fuck all when it comes to NI.
Northern Ireland belongs to the Republic,
The Unionists are only a political majority, and they are only a political majority because of gerrymandering elections.
>>560669
1968-1998 is referred to as 'the Troubles' because of the intense violence between the IRA and Loyalists, and Catholics and Unionists.
There was an attempt in 1973 to establish a power executive to maintain peace, but that failed by 1974.
I'm not too sure on the situation nowadays, but I believe there are still tensions there. They're not as bad as they were during the Troubles, though.
Micheal Collins refused to recall the dail.
He would have turned ireland into an autocratic state and had another war with britain and we'd probably be in the commonwealth today.
>>560641
ah yes, insult america in reply to someone who isn't from america. i'm so hurt you insulted a nation i've only ever visited twice
>>560651
>Considering the Unionist are a strong majority there
they will be a minority within 18 months, despite the gerrymandered border.
>>560573
Pro.
Dev was a snake and he wasn't even Irish.
>>560669
>foreigner here, how did the situation in NI change up to today? can we foresee a change in the coming decades?
Depends on a lot of things so nobody can say for sure. NI will stay in the union for the foreseeable future though.
>>560736
>insult america in reply to someone who isn't from america.
wasn't an insult.
Collins sold out under pressure.
Dev was a English agent all along, the official narrative of his escape from Lincoln jail is farcical, he engineered the situation for Collins to buckle.
>>560819
Michael Collins should never been sent as a diplomat.
Eamon should have went instead. He was far better at negotiation than Collins.
I don't blame Collins for the deal; he did the best he could, but I do blame him for suddenly going pro-treaty after using his 'Squad' to murder so many British intelligence agents.
>>560833
That was part of the plan.
Suddenly Collins did a 180 and became a proud enforcer of British law, his henchmen unquestioning in their support for his decisions. The Ballyseedy massacre is tantamount to that, with one of the perpetrators reportedly calling the IRA prisoners something along the lines of 'dirty Irish ... '.
Notice how all the genuine revolutionaries were killed or ostracised during/after the Civil War, with Dev surviving to rule the country like a petty dictator.
Collins still ultimately sold out regardless of how admirable he was prior to the Treaty. He took up arms against his former comrades in the name of King George V, adorned and killing them with British-produced uniforms and arms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK4kutbouT4
