No saddest thing in history has ever happened, where the right ones lost the war and democracy perished..
The Spanish Civil War
We shall never forget the Heroes of the Republic.
>>556567
Commucrybabies BTFO
fucking gommies killing anarchists on their side instead of fascists
Why? Spain would've turned into another commie shithole. Instead Franco saved the day and paved the way for 50 years of prosperity.
>>556639
Preach it.
>we wuz democrats and shit
>we dindu nuffin wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_%28Spain%29
>>556668
What on earth would drive people to do that?
>>556683
Inquisition and intermingling of church and state
also gommunism
>>556683
The banter.
>>556689
>muh Inquisition
Just a reminder, the Inquisition killed in 300 years less people than the Jacobins killed in three months.
>>556662
Franco was a shitty leader and the Spanish economy hasn't been "prosperous" since the 18th century. Both sides in that war were complete shit, it was just an early round of the eastern front.
Franco wasn't better he was just a different kind of turd.
Do you remember that time when leftists tried to kill the republic and Franco saved it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturian_miners%27_strike_of_1934
>>556695
>these know it all faggots
Jesus fucking christ you god damn turdsniffing shitfuck. Have you no sense of humor at all or is it one of those uptight twatfart senses of humor where if it isn't funny to you in particular you automatically disregard it?
I attached the principal reason at the end as an afterthought precisely because it isn't an afterthought it's the main motivator you fucking twat, that's the joke, it was communism.
Communists don't like religion, they're communists, they're shooting a religious symbol, go figure right?
Fucking asshole.
>a chaotic shithole full of clueless retards who couldn't organize a proper army
>went out of their way to burn down churches and rape nuns
>in the end they started killing each other over who believed in which brand of socialism
>Franco just had to sit around and laugh his ass off about the entire shithouse collapsing
Quite possibly the biggest clownshow in human history aside from revolutionary France (and the French at least knew how to win a war or two)
>>556699
this, also
>triple dubs
noice
>>556683
Edginess.
>>556699
The Franco was able to mobilize a relatively cohesive army whilst the Republicans were having a mini-civil war of their own between I Hate Capitalists and I Really Hate Capitalists should tell you that perhaps Spain wouldn't be doing very well if the Republicans won.
>>556567
>the right ones lost the war
lol
>democracy perished
you mean communism failed to ruin another country
>>556735
Spain isn't doing very well now
>>556699
>>556740
And they reverted a great many of the changes Franco made after his death.
Coincidence?
>>556740
Franco has been dead for 40 years m8.
>>556735
So Spain would have been even shittier shit than the shit it already was throughout the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's? Well wowie sure dodged a bullet there huh?
Are you sure it isn't just that everyone sucked in that war and Franco was nothing special just like Spain, itself, was fucking nothing special at all?
>>556745
Franco also had a cooler flag.
Franco did nothing wrong except for ceding to the sham of "Democracy" at the end of his reign.
Europe needs strong men, without them the current European state happens.
>>556752
>Spain, itself, was fucking nothing special at all
it was the zeitgeist battleground of it's time
>>556751
>Spain wouldn't be doing very well if the Republicans won.
I took that to mean what is written wince it's in the present tense, he should have written:
>Spain wouldn't have done very well if the Republicans had won
If he meant to say that in the immediate aftermath Spain would have suffered more. His fuckup not mine.
>>556760
No it wasn't, it was a proxy war for two doomed political philosophies that were both ultimately proven failures. Utterly fucking pointless and everyone was god damn incompetent in it.
>>556752
Yes, the fact that Spain is shit when Spain easily could have been super-shit is a good thing.
>>556772
That's basically the difference between Ecuador and Peru.
>>556771
I read what was written, what more can I do?
>>556770
well, you're not wrong
>>556775
More like Ecuador and Spain.
>>556770
>it was a proxy war
That's what Stalin, Mussolini, and Hitler tried to turn it into, but in the end none of them succeeded in winning Spain.
>two political philosophies
there were at least 4 political philosophies on the Nationalist side alone, not to even begin talking about the disparate views of the anarchists in Catalonia, forget the Republican side as a whole.
>>556791
More like Ecuador and Peru.
>>556797
>tried to turn it into
It was a proxy war unless you want to go full SJW and start making up definitions.
>>556699
The Spanish economy certainly is prosperous when compared to commie countries.
It's hard to believe but before the spanish civil war, Spain was far poorer than countries such as poland, hungary or czechoslovakia. By 1990, Spain was far richer than those countries.
>>556799
Argie spotted.
>>556567
>saddest thing in history
That's WW1 desu
>>556809
He didn't say Paraguay and Bolivia.
>>556668
Is it any coincidence that this happened at the very height of the fedora's popularity?
>>556810
Sopherl! Sopherl! Sterbe nicht! Bleib' am Leben für unsere Kinder! Es ist gar nichts... es ist gar nichts..." ("Sophie! Sophie! Don't die! Live for our children! It is nothing. It is nothing. It is nothing...")
-Archduke Franz Ferdinand
Tragic from start to finish
>>556808
A million times this.
>>556808
>The Spanish economy certainly is prosperous
They're on the verge collapse, their largest energy company just got a €106 million emergency loan. They're a few steps ahead of Greece.
>when compared to commie countries
Like which one? Cuba? Big fucking whoop, el salvador is better than Cuba. You're pretty much a failed state if you can't pull off being more prosperous than an embargoed island 1/20th your size.
>It's hard to believe but before the spanish civil war, Spain was far poorer than countries such as poland, hungary or czechoslovakia
Actually no, not hard to believe at all, their economies skyrocketed after WW1 fuelled by newly liberated nationalism and foreign capital.
>>556808
Spain isn't prosperous at all though. They're in a recession.
>>556829
>Spaniard detected
>>556842
>They're on the verge collapse
Kek'd
>Like which one? Cuba?
Every single one of them. The gdp/capita of Spain and its standard of living is higher than every single commie or ex-commie country.
>>556854
Prosperous COMPARED to shitholes like Romania.
I can't believe the double standard of you people
>slight recession
>OH WOW CAPITALISM HAS FAILED
>literal starvation and mass terror
>it wasn't that bad :-DD they were the first in space :-DD
Kill yourselves.
>>556871
>OH WOW CAPITALISM HAS FAILED
I never said that just that Spain isn't prosperous.
>>556882
Do you suffer from acute brain damage?
What part of "Prosperous COMPARED to shitholes like Romania." don't you understand?
>>556871
>Prosperous COMPARED to shitholes
Well fuck the duck billy boy, it's more prosperous than a shithole old Franco sure knew what he was doing.
>>556820
uultrakek
>>556889
Well yes! Because if commies had had their way, Spain would probably be poorer than Romania.
Because communism doesn't work.
>>556887
But Spain isn't prosperous you ridiculous little man. They fight bulls and wear tight emo pants.
>>556896
>Because if commies had had their way, Spain would probably be poorer than Romania.
that's speculative, for all you know they would have collapsed in the 60's and a technocratic economic wunderland would have sprung up.
We don't know what would have happened but we do know that Franco was a shitty leader, economist and head of state.
>>556898
At this point I can't tell if you're trolling or just confirming my prejudices about the intelligence of the average leftist.
>COMPARED
>COMPARED
>COMPARED
>COMPARED
Do you know what this word means?
>>556887
Spain isn't prosperous tho
>>556907
But Spain is not prosperous.
I don't get this guy, do you even speak english?
>>556905
>that's speculative,
No it's not, only idiots think that a system which fails catastrophically time and time again could work.
> for all you know they would have collapsed in the 60's and a technocratic economic wunderland would have sprung up.
Oh yeah, and I'm sure money-trees could've sprouted up, and the clouds would've become cotton candy.
>We don't know what would have happened
We can take an intelligent guess.
>we do know that Franco was a shitty leader, economist and head of state.
Why? He was a dictator, but rather benign for a dictator. His rule was far better than any rule under a communist government during the 20th century. He was way better than Castro, Stalin, Mao and all those other idiots.
>>556896
So because Communism sucks Franco was a good leader? Are you drunk, that doesn't follow. Just because you have two choices doesn't mean one has to be good, they can both be shit. Case in point, they were.
>>556699
This. Absolute power doesn't immediately translate to efficiency or prosperity.
>>556923
>So because Communism sucks Franco was a good leader?
Yes, because he fought (and won) against communism. For this act alone he should be viewed positively.
As for his actual rule, it was not that bad.
>>556918
>No it's not
>Alternate history is not speculation and furthermore sir you're a buffoon if you question me
HAHAHA, ok.
>Oh yeah, and I'm sure money-trees could've sprouted up, and the clouds would've become cotton candy.
All things being equal.
>We can take a fun journey through the lands of make believe and storytelling
ftfy
>Why?
Because the Spanish economy was never "strong" under him, Spain was never a power, Spain was never prosperous, it was only prosperous, as you've gone to great lengths to reiterate, in comparison with far more incompetent regimes.
That doesn't make him good, that makes him less bad or more accurately a different flavor of incompetence.
>>556756
>Europe needs strong men, without them the current European state happens.
Fuck you, CIA !
>>556927
>Absolute power doesn't immediately translate to efficiency
actually the opposite is true, at least as it concerns decision making and universal implementation of the will of the central authority
>>556941
>the Spanish economy was never "strong" under him, Spain was never a power, Spain was never prosperous
But that's wrong
>>556941
>HAHAHA, ok.
If I jump out of the window, I will fall and die. That is not speculation.
If a country government which adheres to marxism in one shape or another, it will crash and die. That is not speculation either.
>Because the Spanish economy was never "strong" under him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_miracle
>it was only prosperous, as you've gone to great lengths to reiterate, in comparison with far more incompetent regimes.
You left out a detail : that all those "far more incompetent regimes" were COMMUNIST. Of the same kind as the one defeated by Franco.
>That doesn't make him good, that makes him less bad or more accurately a different flavor of incompetence.
Of course it makes him good.
You're a just an assravaged little commie who probably browses /r/berniesanders. If Franco had a red star on his cap you would wear tshirts with his face on it. You are so fucking hypocritical it makes me want to throw up.
>>556929
>Yes, because he fought (and won) against communism. For this act alone he should be viewed positively.
That doesn't make any sense. People have already stated how dysfunctional the Republicans were, beating them was no real accomplishment unless you're a biased twat that thinks everyone that casually stepped on a misplaced soviet flag is some kind of hero.
>As for his actual rule, it was not that bad.
"it was not that bad" is the absolute best thing you can say about his time in office, He was an incompetent idiot and not a good ruler.
How is it that all commie groups that are considered "successful" were the ones that got curb stomped in the beginning (Sankara, Lumumba, revolutionary Spain) and those that were given enough time to develop ended up being absolute shit (entire Eastern Bloc, North Korea, Zimbabwe)?
>>556961
>That doesn't make any sense.
Doesn't make sense to YOU. You probably have a defective brain.
>He was an incompetent idiot and not a good ruler.
But compared to the republicans, or commie morons such as Castro, Allende, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ceausescu, Tito and all those other faggots, he was a fucking genius.
That's the point I'm trying to get across.
>>556963
Because communists are by very definition irrational.
>>556966
>talking shit about Tito
>>556959
>That is not speculation.
That's not what you're doing though.
>If a country government which adheres to marxism in one shape or another, it will crash and die. That is not speculation either.
That's literally what that is.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_miracle
>muh contemprary politicized nonsense
the "Spanish miracle" was insignificant and largely accomplished nothing.
>You left out a detail : that all those "far more incompetent regimes" were COMMUNIST.
The sad part is you're both convinced I'm leftist and that you don't have the foggiest idea how that doesn't matter at all.
>Of the same kind as the one defeated by Franco.
You're completely wrong about that.
>Of course it makes him good.
No it doesn't it makes him not that other kind of shit, and that's all.
>You're a just an assravaged little commie
>conservative blogger
>you're a commie!
Yeah, ok kid.
>>556966
>compared to morons he was a genius
Well, point delivered there, your hero was more intelligent than retards. My word what a man.
Are you serious you fucking idiot? This is your great "point"? "My guy is smarter than retards".
Gee wilikers sure showed me.
>>556567
So this is what it feels like to know that no matter which position OP holds, you're going to call him a faggot and you'll be right to do it.
>>556976
Not him, but Tito was shit.
>run the country on western loans because he's anti-Soviet
>westerners come for payments once the USSR collapses
>Yugoslavia goes down in (literal) flames
>OMG SOCIALISM WERKS
>>556976
Tito was a humongous faggot. Yugoslavia is a typical example of an okay country run to the ground by a communist idiot.
>>556978
>That's not what you're doing though.
Are you claiming that if I jump out of the window, there is a possibility that I will fly?
>the "Spanish miracle" was insignificant and largely accomplished nothing.
I can't argue against such a strong argument. You obviously have a PhD in the history of the spanish economy. I can safely disregard the opinions of experts because you are the most expert of them all!
>The sad part is you're both convinced I'm leftist and that you don't have the foggiest idea how that doesn't matter at all.
It doesn't matter, but you're a leftist, it's pretty obvious from your shilling.
>You're completely wrong about that.
Actually you're right, even Pol Pot's Cambodia was better run than the Republic. I can't imagine the utter carnage Spain would have suffered had the Republic won.
>No it doesn't it makes him not that other kind of shit, and that's all.
I guess it's a question of perspective. For me, a leader who prevents his country from descending into horrible communist carnage and subsequently goes on to make Spain almost as rich as its northern neighbors is pretty good.
>Yeah, ok kid.
>kid
Let's not kid ourselves, you're probably underage.
>>556988
believe it or not I think he's sincere, I've dealt with people that autistic and stupid before. It's not good enough that you're calling the thing he hates shit, you have to also exalt the thing he doesn't hate or else you're part of the thing you're calling shit. You also have to be sure to praise it in just the right way. You didn't do it the way he liked so that triggered his autism.
>>556988
>your hero
Franco is not my hero.
>"My guy is smarter than retards".
I didn't say that. I said that Franco is smarter than every single communist leader, who were humongous retards.
You always forget to mention the "communist leader" part. Funny.
Not any retards. But CO
>>557009
>that smugness
So easy to spot lefties.
>>556978
>You're dumb
>You're wrong
>This isn't true
This is literally all of your "arguments" against him. Now I'm not saying you're a Marxist, but you definitely argue like one, that is negating shit without providing any substance.
>>557025
>one guy shitposts with insults
>the other responds with "untrue, post proofs"
>OH WOW WAY TO RESPOND YOU COMMIE
This thread began as a shitpost and is gonna die as one. And I'm a tankie
Purge the revisionists class war now, Franco's head belonged on a spike
>>557034
Saying Spanish republic wasn't shit actually is revisionism.
>>557005
>Are you claiming that if I jump out of the window, there is a possibility that I will fly?
Yes that's exactly what I'm claiming, are you daft boy?
>I can't argue against such a strong argument.
There are lots of "miracles" in the world of economics, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Poland, France, Italy, Argentina, it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean you're some kind of wunderkid that knows his shit. It's when you keep it going and sustain it and build off it and diversify and grow that you're worth a damn. He didn't, he stagnated and receded.
>It doesn't matter, but you're a leftist, it's pretty obvious from your shilling.
Oh well guess you have me pegged. Aw schucks.
>even Pol Pot's Cambodia was better run than the Republic.
That's completely...That has nothing to do at all with the context of what you're replying to.
>I guess it's a question of perspective. For me, a leader who prevents his country from descending into horrible communist carnage
You believe he had the hindsight that we do?
>and subsequently goes on to make Spain almost as rich as its northern neighbors is pretty good.
Spain has never been as rich as post-war France, Great Britain and Germany. It's dwarfed by all three even today.
>>557009
I know he's sincere, I never thought he was trolling me but it's still weird that people this biased and stupid exist.
>>557025
He's been doing that this entire time, his only argument is "not as bad as these abject failures therefore good also your'e a commie because reasons you asshole"
>>557039
No one said that, they're saying they're both shit but you want people to suck Franco's dick on top of saying the Republicans were shit.
>>557015
>ur a commie
ok
>>556668
>The priest of Cienpozuelos was thrown into a corral with fighting bulls where he was gored into unconsciousness. Afterwards one of his ears was cut off to imitate the feat of a matador after a successful bullfight.
>In Ciudad Real, a priest was castrated and his sexual organs stuffed in his mouth.
heh
but as usual, no matter how right you are - once you get violence all you want will be lost.
and just like the japanese cartoons, once you become the monster you were trying to defeat you'll be as bad as he is.
>>557034
I literally posted a wiki article titled "the spanish miracle" to which he responded with "no".
>>557046
>Yes that's exactly what I'm claiming
I wasn't sure I understood. I was willing to give you a chance, but you've just admitted to being a humongous retard. I guess the only thing I have to say is, you go for it and try jumping out of a window.
>There are lots of "miracles" in the world of economics,
Correct.
>Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Poland, France, Italy, Argentina,
None of those had a miracle save for France.
Better examples would be Chile, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Germany (well, West Germany), etc. I mean Brazil?? Really?
>He didn't, he stagnated and receded.
The spanish economy grew continuously under Franco...
>Oh well guess you have me pegged.
Kind of like your girlfriend during sex, amirite?
>That's completely...That has nothing to do at all with the context of what you're replying to.
I didn't change the subject, I drew a comparison. Did I overwhelm your brain?
>You believe he had the hindsight that we do?
Oh no, I'm sure he decided to quit his post in Morrocco and lead a rebel army for shits and giggles.
>Spain has never been as rich as post-war France,
The key word being "almost". Had you read the article on the spanish miracle instead of saying "NO THATS NOT TRUE MY EYES, THEYRE BURNING", you would have read this interesting statistic:
>While Spain remained less economically developed relative to most of western Europe in the 1970s, in the "miracle's" heyday, 1974, Spanish per capita income had reached 79% of the European Economic Community
The average spaniard was worth 80% of the average frenchman. What would the corresponding statistic be had the Republic won? Probably closer to 10%
>>557058
>implying you aren't
>>556567
The Far Left scum fell to the glory of Fascism. Of course Spain being the socially liberal dump that it is today (along with the rest of Western Europe) is treating the Nationalists like demons and even tearing down and vandalizing Nationalist monuments.
>>557039
I agree
>>557053
This guy has it right. The Republic was a weak state that got Soviet support for a good reason but it was a shit house divided and did poorly due to its many internal problems
>>557070
This attribution is ridiculous and obviously propaganda as almost all Matadors were pro-Fascist and bullfighting was heavily discouraged in the Republic because they were short on meat
Though much of the rage wasn't necessarily against belief so much as the backward role of the organized priesthood who ruthlessly exploited and controlled large swathes of the populace and enforced feudal tithing laws
>>556745
>suicides: negligible
every single time, every single dictatorship
just like that shitty comparison is lacking transparency, faking/hiding data was a common practice in every single dictatorship ever created.
e.g.: just like "nuestros hermanos" we in portugal had a dictator and when people where "invited" by the secret police they often died of "natural causes" according to their death certificate which was pretty amusing since we're talking about people between 18~75 years old most of them very healthy until they've been taken to be "inquired about subversive activities"
>>557106
>Franco was fascist.
No. He was an authoritarian dictator and a patriot nationalist, but he wasn't fascist.
>>557116
i have no idea what's the deal between bullfighting and everything else i wrote.
bullfighting all over the iberian peninsula was always a show for the amusement of the elites where the plebs could or couldn't be invited to watch - so of course republicans were against it (they still are but nowadays it's a claim by the left wing).
my point was no matter how right you think you are; if you open pandora box and start killing a few people you're on the path of the tyrant and it's just a matter of time until the blood of both sides flows throught the streets...
>>557105
>but you've just admitted to being a humongous retard
Yeah, you sure do got it.
>None of those had a miracle save for France.
That's wrong, you can google it. There's literally a wiki page with a list of them.
>Better examples would be Chile, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Germany (well, West Germany), etc.
>look at me everyone, I went to wikipedia and still got it wrong
Neat
> I mean Brazil?? Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Miracle
>The spanish economy grew continuously under Franco
Economic stagnation isn't a lack of growth it's not enough growth, usually less than 2–3%.
>I didn't change the subject, I drew a comparison. Did I overwhelm your brain?
You are so asspained it's ridiculous. Your comparison has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
>Oh no, I'm sure he decided to quit his post in Morrocco and lead a rebel army for shits and giggles.
Or because he had political clout, the communists were obviously unpopular with the business interests and he had a shot at power.
>79%
>almost
>over 20% below 1970's levels
>almost
Your definitions are shit.
>What would the corresponding statistic be had the Republic won?
I have no idea, I'm not the one writing alternate history fics. Franco was still shit though.
>>557105
>implying you aren't
yes that's right, you got it. Good job.
>>557123
Franco was a fascist
>>557106
>the far left scum fell to the glorious fascists
And the the fascist scum fell to the glorious far left just 6 years later :^)
>>557135
>my point was no matter how right you think you are; if you open pandora box and start killing a few people you're on the path of the tyrant and it's just a matter of time until the blood of both sides flows throught the streets
even when you don't do that it's just a matter of time until the blood of both sides flows through the streets.
>>557135
>wah violence is bad
The iron fist to suppress the enemy of the revolution makes logical sense. So too does Franco using the iron fist against us. On the moral ground I can't begrudge him doing what was effective.
But I will complain because he did it against progress to destroy change and the advancement of man because muh Church and traditions. So fuck him.
The real question on the use of violence is when to end its use.
Also even on moral grounds you're confusing the question. Violence is a logical, rational act. More importantly, the violence of the oppressed against oppressor is not equal to that of the oppressor attempting to retain their power. One is more justified than the other.
Oh, and the bullfighting argument is because if the priests are going
>"waaaah they fed us to bulls"
And there's no bulls around, then they're full of bullshit
This thread is autism, everyone knows that the "Republican" could never create a coherent government in Spain with its patchwork of radical left wing ideologies and that Franco was a dictator that treated dissidents harshly
>>557153
nuh uh
he was a conservative monarchist who formed an ultra-nationalist faction and later established an autocratic dictatorship over Spain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain
>Government: Autocratic one-party military dictatorship
Not fascist. Just a patriot.
![18312315_TMZqF[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Qm35w4b.jpg "18312315_TMZqF[1].jpg")
>>557159
if you have a rightful claim sooner or later you will have the majority of the people on your side and at that point it will take too much to preserve the status quo for the rulling elite, so instead of gambling everything and possible end up defeated and dead they prefer to give up power and operate behind the shadows
>pic related: it applies to all velvet revolutions
>>557161
>us
What part of POUM are you from m8?
>>557161
>the advancement of man
lol
>Violence is a logical, rational act.
No.
>oppressed against oppressor
bullshit
>>557176
kill yourself
>>557175
Sooner or later people kill each other anyway
>>556683
Target practice
>>556871
Did you know that Spain isn't prosperous at all?
>>557185
>if I repeat a lie enough times it becomes true!!
stop shitposting
>>557202
nobody likes you
>>557210
At least I'm not a fascist, like Franco.
>>557210
I like him
>>557226
I really really like this image
>>557224
Good, so at least Franco isn't insulted since he's a Fascist and all
>>557230
What is a fascist?
>>557252
I've noticed that they often resort to such tactics. Another tactic they use is responding with memes.
>>556745
What does GDP as a percentage even mean?
Forgive me if I'm being horribly ignorant, I barely have a layman's grasp of economics.
Huh, I just bought a book about the Spanish civil war yesterday and now this thread pops up. If Franco was so bad, how'd he stay in power for so long?
