Is it true that for a while( they stopped during edo period) Japanese samurai/military class would train women(Onna-bugeisha) in using nagitnata to defend the home when men go out on war? Naginatas (and pole arms in general) were said to be good for women since it gives them more leverage against stronger opponents(men).
>inb4 "muh gurl power" and "female warriors" fantasy meme" I'm actually asking a serious question based on articles I've read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-bugeisha
This article also said they "commonly" fought besides men, though I doubt it was more than rare assuming they meant actual battle. Any insight on the topic?
>>553519
It was something that happened but it was hardly normal as it was looked down upon, it was only done when necessary. It should also be remembered that most Japanese people were peasants so this sort of thing was a tiny minority within a minority.
>>553551
Yeah I understand that it was only people who could afford arms (i.e. nobles) and they probably didn't usually have to fight. I just wanted to know if they were still usually trained anyway (possibly in marksmanship with bows as well) just in case.
Any other sources on this topic too?
>>553519
>Onna-bugeisha
Imagine a rich cosplaye girl who actually carries real weapons and could kill you without fear of prosecution.
That's basically what they were.
>>553690
What?
Do you even have any sources? Anyway, it would make sense to teach females in military families to defend themselves in case the home/castle was attacked. That way, they wouldn't be raped or they can help who ever is there defend the place( probably with by firing bows)
Women like Tamoe Gozen may possibly be just a legend but I can't seem this whole thing being impossible.
>>553519
>This article also said they "commonly" fought besides men,
Considering the lack of examples of female armor, and the general rarity of mentions in the war tales, they were somewhat rare, while some women were trained and fought as a last line, more likely they would be expected to kill themselves to avoid dishonor at the hands of the victor.
The association between women and the naginata was probably a pretty late phenomena, from the late sengoku and not solidified until the edo era.
what is true is that because of this connection many naginata schools fell into the hands of women teachers, the naginata they used was often short and light compared to the battlefield weapon. That said thanks to women some battlefield systems of naginata like toda ha boku ryu were preserved to the current era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U50_QBJnPqw
>>553744
I mean everyone in a noble family was expected to do that regardless. Seems to me it must have been common enough to at least train them. Killing your-self as a last resort of course.
If some were good enough to teach it, then that says something of how extensively some could be trained.
>>553805
The idea that every women was trained is quite suspect. by the edo period, when such systems flourished, most men were not trained.
mass suicide by women was incredibly common in the sengoku. While some women perhaps choose to fight, a women who was captured faced dishonor and rape.
If they had been seriously expected to fight as anything more than a last resort they would have had armor. we know it happened, but suicide was just as common if not more so
>>553870
Well there's this but I agree it could be the exception rather than the rule.
Still pretty awesome none the less
>>553726
Even if she were just a legend, it does speak as to the society which created it.
>>553551
It wasn't looked down upon at all. Samurai woman have legends and statues built to commerate them. It was seen as the ultimate dedication of a wife to arm herself and fight to protect her home and her husband's/clan's honor.
It's also said widows that didnt wish to become nuns and couldn't remarry would sometimes take to arms and fight.
>>553920
yes but the female armor was rare. very few examples survive.
Consider that most of the systems of naginata used to teach women were invented by men, and past on to women in the edo era.
>>553933
Sources for the widows though?
It's true that legends come from somewhere but that's like saying because we have stories of the Amazons, it speaks a lot of the Hellenistic society.
>>553945
My point is, from what I've seen,it's not hard to image this being a thing before Edo time though, whether or not women actually ever needed to use it or if it was always successful.
Unless you have more sources, particularly the mass suicides.
>>554490
My source is Ellis Amdur's Women Warriors of Japan. There were some women who did fight, and more women who at least had some training, my point is that it was not the norm.
