So while reading and listening about Roman/Pagan-European history with Christianity I often read about:
>about how conversion is really a generational thing
Disregarding the clergy, the population just suddenly doesn't become "Christian" in a sense, like Africans they hold onto old religious traditions and seem to practice some sort of "mutualism", where they just absorb Jesus/God in their pantheon or just replace Sol Invictus with him, etc
They often practice their old religious rituals too, this time just in the name of their new deity.
Reactions from the clergy like Muslims not being allowed to pray at the zenith of the mid-day sun can be seen as evidencce for those kind of things.
So I really want to know more about that, do you know any examples of such things? I think this is really interesting.
I'll give an example:
>Based on old reneveration of Sol Invictus some bishops noticed how a few Christians turn to the sun and bow before it after church service.
>Also Marriage in Christian Spain was for a long time secular.
>>771651
One anon once pointed out that all these angels in Catholicism are likely Germanic influence. They are depicted as blonde warriors, carrying swords and stuff.
A more clear and modern example is in Brazil, slaves brought their gods from Africa, and after the Church started cracking fown on those pratices, the African gods were each assigned a Catholic saint and worshipped by proxy, mixing up the religions eventually.
To this day there are still some small rituals associated with African gods that are still praticed commonly.
Mexico has their santa Muerte thing which is definitely not Catholic. I've also read that Spaniards took over an Aztec temple of a female goddess and dedicated it to Mary. For a long time locals refered to Mary by the goddess' name. It was the site of an important Marian apparition too.
>>772357
>One anon once pointed out that all these angels in Catholicism are likely Germanic influence. They are depicted as blonde warriors, carrying swords and stuff.
I love stuff like this and that makes sense.
I heard that the aryan heresy as expecially a large germanic influence and even depicted jesus with a spear.
>Mexico has their santa Muerte thing which is definitely not Catholic. I've also read that Spaniards took over an Aztec temple of a female goddess and dedicated it to Mary. For a long time locals refered to Mary by the goddess' name. It was the site of an important Marian apparition too.
They took over a mayan temple? one of those pyramids?
that would be kinda awesome
Speaking of the New World, unfortunately everything I find on "teologia india" is in Romance languages.
Long story short: Catholics try to fuse their theology with local pre-Colombian pagan symbols and festivites and shit, to allow for a transition to a conversion to happen smoothly without too much crusading.
A more basic example is the obsession Norwegians have with forests, walking through them and using them as places of meditation, the Church never opposed or otherwise inhibited those activities, but readily made them their own.
>>772398
Catholics confirmed as pagans.
>>772357
religious syncretism, it happens everywhere
>>772430
The goal being the other way around.
>>771651
I think its called syncretism and its pretty common there was an anon here who posted a part of some book wherein ottoman muslims in the balkans still crossed themslves with their fingers while saying that they were muslims.
>>772394
>I heard that the aryan heresy as expecially a large germanic influence and even depicted jesus with a spear.
Jesus as a nordic hero with a spear was Germanic Christianity, not the Arian heresy. Although most Germans and Goths that converted were Arians until that heresy was suppressed in the 6th and 7th centuries.
>>772398
>Long story short: Catholics try to fuse their theology with local pre-Colombian pagan symbols and festivites and shit, to allow for a transition to a conversion to happen smoothly without too much crusading.
Catholics get pretty butthurt when you point out that they're functionally polytheistic.
But if you find syncretism to be fascinating, OP, Asia, and the Indian subcontinent in particular, is the place to be.
>>772499
>Catholics get pretty butthurt when you point out that they're functionally polytheistic.
That's not what they're doing there.
They get the populace into thinking the occasional cross found in an is a sign pointing to Christ.
"See? You were always worshipping the Triune God all along, you were just waiting for us!"
It's a similar approach to what Matteo Ricci and the Jesuits attempted in China:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Ricci
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_China_missions
>During his research, he discovered that in contrast to the cultures of South Asia, Chinese culture was strongly intertwined with Confucian values and therefore decided to use existing Chinese concepts to explain Christianity. He did not explain the Catholic faith as entirely foreign or new; instead, he said that the Chinese culture and people always believed in God and that Christianity is simply the completion of their faith
>>772530
*found in a pre-Colombian artifact
>>772511
>Germanic Christianity?
A semi-syncretization of Christian faith with extant pagan traditions; Germanic pagans didn't practice a doctrine of exclusivity (ie. they had no bones about worshiping Jesus as another god, alongside their extant ones) so the Church and agents thereof promoted Jesus in the mold of a legendary hero or god (many parallels exist to Odin in particular) to make it an easier sell. Constantine, for example, converted to Christianity because he thought that Christ aided him in battle and it wasn't uncommon for kings to have altars with both pagan and Christian functions.
>>772530
I said functionally, fampai. The justifications after the fact don't matter; what matters if that if you're not directing your prayers exclusively and directly to God then you're praying to some other divine force and that's polytheism. A very soft form of it, but still. Do you think that some Columbian peasant praying to the Virgin Mary knows or cares if he's praying to God or is he just praying to her because that's what he's been doing all his life? It's fucking sneaky.
Once misconception I can't stand are conversions by force. My only argument against them is that forced conversions don't build conviction, and thus wouldn't carry on passively throughout generations. I know some people argue that when said religious affairs become dominant within a culture, the people inherit them. That isn't an example of force, but integration. Political religiosity dies with power, but what people choose to believe is up to them. That's why it's silly.
>>772430
Ever celebrate Christmas? Congrats you're a Pagan. Praise Sol Invictus.
>>772622
>A semi-syncretization of Christian faith with extant pagan traditions
I was confused, because I thought you mean something like the aryan heresy.
I thought you meant something "offical".
>>772635
The Germans had a winter solstices festivities.
Jesus is not my savior, he is a jew and a muslim as well :DD
Praise Wotan, okay?
>>772655
>I thought you meant something "offical".
IIRC the Church has never distanced itself from the deliberate misconceptions it employed.
>>772655
>girly_twink.jpg
That's Sky Ferriera you mook
>>772667
I hope to trick people into homosexuality by posting it with this filename.
>>772633
>Once misconception I can't stand are conversions by force
This. Really conversions "by the sword" was actually fairly rare, even in cases like the America's, conversion of the natives was usually done slowly by missionaries, while any government enforcement of religious conversion was usually met with stiff resistance. Even Muslims never really force converted many people, after they hit a certain size they realized it was just better to tax the heretics extra.
>>772394
>Aryan heresy
It's 'Arian' heresy, named after Arius. It's a coincidence and has nothing to do with 'Aryans.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius
>>772394
>jesus with a spear.
That actually dates to the Crucifixion with the spear being the one that pierced his side. The Holy Lance/Spear of Destiny it's called.
>>772675
>Even Muslims never really force converted many >people
lying for shame of the demon allah.
>>772675
>Even Muslims never really force converted many people, after they hit a certain size they realized it was just better to tax the heretics extra.
Fun fact, in post Islamic conquest central Asia swathes of the population "converted" to Islam to avoid the tax.
New rulers started checking peoples dicks for circumcision to root out those dodging tax from genuine converts, this then started riots and then a revolt.
>>772675
You may need professional help. Conversions by the sword in islam are not only common, but by far the majority of converts.
>>772734
Spear of Longinus. It's like the Holy Grail.
>>772786
>citation needed
>>772778
Is that where we get the tradition of penis inspection day from?
>>772357
>One anon once pointed out that all these angels in Catholicism are likely Germanic influence.
Similarly, in Slavic territories, they literally just syncretized their old gods into saints. Can't pray to Perun the thunder god any more? Just call him St. Elijah the Thunderer, and poof, you're good.
>>772778
You realize they don't avoid the tax at all, right? Jizya becomes zakat if you're a Muslim. Both are taxed at similar rates. You're taxed no matter what.
>>772357
>One anon once pointed out that all these angels in Catholicism are likely Germanic influence. They are depicted as blonde warriors, carrying swords and stuff.
Wow, so germanics wuz angelz.
>>772786
Majority of converts? So they feared the sword so much they passively allowed future generations to inherit a belief perpetuated on fear to the point of numbering almost two billion? Nice try.
>>772786
>You may need professional help. Conversions by the sword in islam are not only common, but by far the majority of converts.
you do realize the largest muslim populated country in the world was in fucking indonesia right? how did you think they get there? by warships and soldiers?
>>772812
Tax hasn't stayed the same for 700 years bro.
Zakat like everything else has been reformed a lot, there were periods where it wasn't collected or paid and periods where it applied only to agricultural lands or was basically just a tariff/toll and a hundred other variations.
Don't be a tard and pretend to understand something you don't.
>>772828
The amount isn't relevant. It's that both Muslims and non-Muslims pay a tax that contributes to the state. Even if it isn't collected by a statutory ruling, Muslims still give it consensually ever year as a charitable donation. People who "escape" jizya to pay a lesser tax, or maybe one that isn't instituted, are still paying no matter what. So it doesn't matter.
>>772842
Did you even read the original anecdote?
If you are converting for tax reasons, odds are you aint big on voluntary donations.
Fucking mong.
>His accounts of the repeated attempts of the Arab empire, based in Baghdad, to conquer the region were met with a mix of intrigue and apathy, with the occasional brilliant ruse (Starr tells of a time when the Arab rulers decreed that pious Muslims would be exempt from taxes; whole cities in Central Asia then declared themselves to be newly converted. The government in Baghdad then decided to require proof of circumcision). This anecdote, among others, explains well why Arab rulers opted for a light-handed control of the region, rather than insisting on the complete submersion of Central Asians.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2014/02/11/book-review-lost-enlightenment-central-asias-golden-age-starr/
>>772852
Zakat isn't limited to a tax. Muslims should give it to the charitable causes if it's not already collected by the state. So people exempt from taxes will still pay zakat to charities. These people would soon learn, as all converts do, that zakat is not a tax. It is a personal, consensual charitable donation and one of the five compulsory pillars of Islam. You don't need the state to impose this.
>>772822
>there was one exception, therefore it is the rule
>>772869
>People always follow their religions rules
>States don't ever enforce religious rules
>People converting to dodge tax were genuine converts
>>772899
You're right. They converted to dodge the tax. So what? That generation of converts' offspring are still paying zakat to this day. A lot of Muslims calculate it per year since incomes are per annum. It's the easiest and most basic of the five pillars. Do you think their future generations retained the same principle of converting by convenience? No, because they accepted the principles of faith and continue to practice it. Not in memory or spite of their ancestor's economic motives. In the end, most Muslims are still paying.
>>774073
>Let's compare a 21st century nation-state to an ethnic theocracy from the age of great empires and act like they're totally homologous
