>If you don't consume bread and wine that magically turns into the actual flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, you're a degenerate heretic
Explain yourselves Catholics. Why do you worship graven images and eat your own God? Sounds awfully pagan to me.
Catholics invented the term pagan.
Let's consider Joshua of Nazareth - Jesus - for a moment.
We have here, allegedly, the son of a being who was able to impregnate a woman without ever having sex with her. Nowadays, we'd call that in-vitro fertilization, but what if the real method was even more insidious? What if, for example, the father of Jesus was a spore-based lifeform with the ability to take on genetic aspects of its host, resulting in a human/fungi hybrid?
Suppose this hybrid had some odd qualities. (Odd for a human, at any rate.) What if he (it?) could detach parts of himself to use as anti-bacterial remedies or regenerative bandages on other organic lifeforms? That's curing the sick and wounded, right there. Hell, what if the fungus could inhabit and reanimate a dead body? Lazarus might know a thing or two about that.
Also, if Jesus was a fungal human hybrid, there might have been a bit more truth to his statement about that bread being "his body." What if he intentionally laced the Last Supper with some of his own spores, which attached themselves to the brains of his apostles and resulted in a euphoric feeling that they later referred to as "The Holy Spirit?"
What if those spores survived, staying mostly dormant, but being passed down from generation to generation? When a priest blesses the Holy Communion, what if he (maybe without his knowledge) is allowing the spores he carries to propagate within the bread and wine, only to be consumed by the congregation? Those spores - the lifeform that they are, at least - would very likely have the same survival instinct as anything else, so they'd alter the brain chemistry of their host bodies, creating a desperate urge to convert more followers to the flock. They'd be anti-abortion, since they'd see a terminated zygote as one fewer potential host, and they'd be anti-science, since they wouldn't want to be discovered.
>>716494
That's nice, but they didn't invent paganism.
>>716482
We don't, and he told us to.
All of the doctrine is justified in some way by some passage in the scripture interpreted in a way different than you do so I couldn't possibly justify it to you. That's the fun about religion, you get into a bunch of polarizing arguments based off of which way to interpret something.
>>716494
and Pagan came from the word for farmer, because city dwelling Romans adopted Christianity, while the farmers stuck to their old or "pagan" gods.
>>716482
Why is religion still discussed seriously in 2016? Why are LARPs not treated seriously?
>>716529
>We don't, and he told us to?
So what did he tell you to do that you don't do?
>>716494
They adopted it from Babylon.
Rome is Babylon.
>>716516
What if the Father of Jesus is God?
>>716536
Because you can't get tax exemption by LARP
>>716529
He didn't, actually. Nobody has ever eaten off of Jesus, and nobody ever drank His blood.
He said you had to do that in order to get Him inside you.
And He said that His Word was food, and gave life.
His Word. His Spirit. The Holy Spirit. You have to have Jesus' Holy Spirit in you in order to be saved.
And He's not edible. And no "priest" can mumbo-jumbo Him into crackers and juice.
>>716557
The priest mumbo-jumbos the crackers and juice into Him, but only when it's in your stomach otherwise you'd throw up :^)
Let's take a stool sample of everybody who has done the transubstantiation and see if there is flesh and blood.
>>716557
Why Eucharist is so important then?
>>716533
>and Pagan came from the word for farmer
It's been decades, but I thought agricultor was the word for farmer.
>>716557
You're being purposely dense. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and the Oriental Orthodox all view it as being literal. While protestants view it as metaphorical like you do.
Really though, all it comes down to is Luther not liking Aristotle.
>>716482
It is an ancient marriage rite.
The Macedonians used to have the custom amongst other peoples of antiquity.
It is symbolic for Christ's communion with mankind.
>>716482
>Explain yourselves Catholics.
And Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Christians, and Anglicans, and Lutherans, and.Methodists, and...
>>716536
I know, right?
I mean, like, It's 2015+1!
>>716594
>While protestants view it as metaphorical like you do.
>Really though, all it comes down to is Luther not liking Aristotle.
Nah, older protestants believe in it as well.
More neo-protestant currents tend to do the whole "it's just a symbol, lel" thing.
>>716482
We don't.
>>716668
You bow and pray to graven images, that's worshiping graven images.
>>716570
A hatefull one. Atheist perhaps?
>>716684
You because you have done it and you are confirmed catholic?
>>716684
>worshiping graven images
See, I don't think we do that.
>>716708
No, because when you bow it's "respecting" God, but when others do it it's clearly worship.
>>716704
>and pray to them
But nobody does that. We don't pray to anyone but Jesus and God.
>>716725
A lot of you do exactly that. Praying to a representation of God is exactly what he didn't want you guys to do, but you do it anyway.
>>716725
And if you don't do that, what are the graven images for? Decoration?
>>716740
>what are the graven images for? Decoration?
Literally yes. They're not objects of worship.
>>716570
Been done many times, and proven that no human cardiac tissue, and no human blood, was found.
They don't care.
Eat God, Be God. Nom nom nom. Never mind that it would be a VIOLATION OF THE LAW OF GOD, they're going to do it anyways, because they have no other way they know of to be saved.
>>716704
Ok don't be so angry. Catholicism is filled with dogmas and local beliefs intertwined with faith. If you can't tell one from another then those Catholics that you have described are lost and are Catholics only in their heads.
>>716578
It isn't. Not really. Communion, the taking of the Lord's Supper, is more like gangsters pouring out a 40 for their fallen brother than what the papists have turned it into; a cannibal and vampire feast.
>>716773
>because they have no other way they know of to be saved
Besides faith and good deeds you mean?
>>716594
>It's been decades, but I thought agricultor was the word for farmer.
I'm in /his/story class right now. It was a throwaway line the professor threw in. I'll double check.
>>716594
It comes down to the crackers and juice just being crackers and juice, with no magical powers whatsoever.
In fact, if you take the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner, like, say, thinking you're eating His body, and drinking His blood, you eat and drink condemnation unto yourself.
>>716708
Does it matter what you do, or what you think you do?
>>716781
Everyone has faith.
Good deeds do not earn anyone salvation.
See? Nothing but nom nom nom pass the Jesus blood.
>>716794
>Jesus says something in the bible
>the majority of Christians (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox) treat it with the seriousness you should treat the word of Christ
>this is somehow wrong
I respect that you interpret the bible in a way and live by it, but I don't agree with it.
>>716799
It matters what we do, not what you think we do.
>>716802
I agree with you on that. Faith leads to salvation. But James was pretty clear that faith without good deeds is dead. The Eucharist does not lead to salvation, it's just a sacrament.
>>716749
What a chicken shit answer, as much as you'd like it to be the opposite you know that's not true at all.
>They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm
Real Presence doctrine dates back ages. Same with memorialism. One is believed by the Church Fathers like Ignatius of Antioch. The other, by heretics such as the Docetists who confess the same thing the Prots here are doing right now now now
>these motherfuckers honest to God believe that bread and wine turn into literal fucking flesh and blood
Yet you retarded pagans have the nerve to call us protestants ooga boogas
Everytime I see a protestant post like this I start to realise why we call them heretics
T. Eastern Orthodox
>>716594
Luther believed in the Real Presence
transubstantiation leaves the accidents of bread and wine
read a fucking book every once in a while ya fucking retard
>>719497
Luther is the best Protestant.
I always thought Catholicism was weird when I was Christian. Still do.
I was weirded out when I went to mass for the first time. Everything felt dead. The sermon was about death, the amount of elderly people made it reek of death. The young people looked like they were forcing themselves to stay awake. The church was beautiful and full of lively art but it was like all the life was drained out of everyone.
>>719547
Welcome to Catholicism :)
>>719547
It mostly all dials back to the death and resurrection of Christ. Protestants see Christ rising from the dead as the triumphant victory while Catholics view his death as completing his saving act. It's basically asking of Christ's mission on earth was complete with his death or revival, and because of the different focus from each, the air and mood in the church plays out different.
I remember visiting a baptist church and the sermon is mostly upbeat on how everyone is saved by Christ and how awesome that is. And then looking at my Catholic church, there again is the focus on Christ saving act situated front and center in the church, Christ's death on the cross. The message is that none of us can be saved by faith alone, but by Christ's mercy and forgiveness. Whereas the Baptist sermon is to bring a nice feel-good sensation to the members by extolling Christ's saving resurrection, the Catholic one was about how Christ's mission continues through us, our failings and successes, and how to live more Christ-like lives.
>>716827
>But James was pretty clear that faith without good deeds is dead.
And Paul was quite clear that we are saved by faith.
And Jesus was quite clear that we are saved by His words, not by eating Him.
Why pay so much attention to Jesus' asshole little brother?
Why not spend some time reconciling all of them together?
>>719493
Yes, confirming that you are not Christians. By saying we are "heretics" to your little club with its funny hats, you are admitting that you are not of the Kingdom of God. You're just members of your local decorated building.
>>720177
And yet Paul said that if Jesus stayed dead, as He is depicted in popery, we are without hope.
Another thing came to mind. By saying that Jesus was crucified on Friday, "Good Friday", you make Jesus a false prophet and a liar, and therefore by lying doing the work of the devil.
No wonder John said the Whore of Babylon is full of abominations!
>>720233
I love how you always string little bits of the bible into chains of nonsense
>>720266
Things you don't understand are necessarily nonsense?
wew, lad, that's quite the infinite knowledge you have there.
>>720266
Matthew 12:40
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Assume "Good Friday" execution, and find me three days, AND three nights, where Jesus was in the belly of the beast.
Assume 1 second in either day or night is fine.
Note that Jewish days start at sundown, when three stars are visible, and not at midnight.
And, go!
>>720277
No your statements are necessarily nonsense, and anyone of any religion should be able to see it
>>720289
Ah, I see. Here is your verse for the day.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Protip: That's how you know that you're perishing. It's properly in the bible, and things properly in the bible are true because they came from God, and God is neither wrong nor mistaken.
>>720286
Well I should tell you I am not a Christian so its just as likely to me that the guy writing that made up the quote as it is that the Catholics are wrong.
>>720289
Two verses. You can stretch a bit.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I keep looking for verses for you, and the word "fool" keeps popping up. Huh.
>>720303
So, you confirm that
1. You are a fool;
2. You are perishing; and
3. You want nothing to do with God.
You may want to reconsider the ramifications of #3 there, sport.
By the way, why would it take a religious person to count how many days and nights there would be between a Friday execution and a Sunday resurrection?
Wouldn't that be a kindergarten problem?
>>720295
>That's how you know that you're perishing. It's properly in the bible, and things properly in the bible are true because they came from God, and God is neither wrong nor mistaken.
>Not believing me is proof that your wrong!
Did you graduate high school?
>>720312
Not believing God is proof that you are wrong.
Think about that for a minute.
>>720315
you seemed to have confused God with a book written by humans.
>>720324
You seem to have confused the bible with a book written by humans.
>>720227
Paul was talking about initial justification when it came to following Jewish laws and entering the new Christian religion. At least it really looks that way given the context of the whole thing and then compounded with James. Catholics believe you can't be justified without faith, but without good deeds that faith means jack shit, it's the same as claiming to know Jesus.
Also the whole bread and wine thing was pretty important to Jesus. It however takes no precedence over following His word and is just one part of the mass.
Ironically, the Church has gone through great theological pains to try to reconcile all of them together. I know some Protestants take this personally. I respect your interpretation of the scripture, I just understand it's different than mine.
>>720328
If an infallible God wrote the bible than he did a pretty bad job seeing how its chuck full of things that never happened
>>720332
Paul never told anyone to follow the Law. He counted all of his life following the Law as loss. So, no.
James is the one baptizing people in the Jewish Temple, and telling them to follow the Law of Moses. In fact, James arrogantly dismisses Paul to go preach to the Gentiles, because James could care less about what anyone told the Gentiles.
Note that no Jew had any problem with James' teachings.
Note that when Paul preached, Jews tried to (and sometimes did) kill him.
It doesn't matter what Catholics believe. It matters what the truth of the matter is. And the truth of the matter is that the Catholics believe a ton of garbage.
Atheists have faith. Atheist scientists have faith that science will bring immortality.
That faith DOES NOT PRODUCE THE WORKS OF GOD.
When James says "faith", he does not mean "faith in the risen Christ Jesus". He must means faith.
If your faith is in Buddha, you will not show the works of God. If you do not show the works of God, your faith is likely not in the risen Christ Jesus, but as in this case, in Buddha.
When Paul speaks of faith, it is always in context with the New Covenant. It is always faith in the risen Christ Jesus. Hence he writes in Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you WILL be saved.
Likewise, Jesus said that the "works" of the Father are to BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHOM HE HAS SENT.
You don't understand James, at all. You cling to him, because your church is a works based organization designed to keep you as a member from cradle to grave. They lie to you, and say they're the church Jesus started.
Their claims are false. Their doctrine is false. They have nothing to offer you.
Wake up, and get out.
>>720338
Oh, please tell me you have an example. I love people like you; so ignorant, and so sure.
>>720360
>I love people like you
You mean people with history degrees? Just off the top of my head...
Garden of Eden,
Global flood, and boat
everyone speaking one language less than 5000 years ago
Jewish slavery in Egypt
Jewish conquest of Canaan.
Jewish Empire of Salomon
>>720372
>Garden of Eden,
In Eden.
>Global flood, and boat
Global, about 4600 years ago, and ark is the correct term. Not boat.
>everyone speaking one language less than 5000 years ago
True.
>Jewish slavery in Egypt
True. Maybe catch up on modern archaeology.
>Jewish conquest of Canaan.
True. Maybe catch up on modern archaeology.
>Jewish Empire of Salomon
You mean Solomon? True. Maybe catch up on modern archaeology.
I'm guessing your degree did not require any courses in archaeology.
>>720177
Don't be fooled by appearances.
The typical Protestant believes that Jesus died because God is so pissed at human beings who are somehow magically guilty of the Original Sin.
Ever heard that Baptist hymn with the verse "the wrath of God was satisfied"?
That is Penal Substitutionary Atonement of the Protestants.
God is pissed at humanity so he beats Jesus up so that he can forgive you.
And the whole body and blood thing...it's been there since the beginning of Christianity. Those that follow Calvin and Zwingli are following in the footsteps of the heretic Gnostics who ascribe no saving power or significance to the Sacrament and its elements.
Protestant justification also works like this,
You are totally depraved so you can't turn to God.
God saves you through justification my mind controlling you.
You now have faith thanks to this mind control and do works as consequence.
The logical conclusion of this is Calvinism but many Protestants are too much of a pussy to accept it.
>>720382
It's so gratifying to know that the deviants who curse Christianity know nothing of it.
>>720357
>Jews tried to (and sometimes did) kill him.
Right.
You've clearly lack any historical or contextual understanding of the New Testament. You have no interest in any sort of discourse, and you hate James for some reason. I would suggest you get that anger in check because as it stands you seem more than willing to pick and choose what parts of the scripture you like, and that you're so flustered with James that you feel the need to launch personal attacks against the brother of Christ speaks volumes.
I have faith in Christ. And you'll be happy to know I will remain to do so despite you being upset that I add doing good things to my faith.
>>720357
>Atheists have faith. Atheist scientists have faith that science will bring immortality.
Where the fuck did you get that asspull? Some scientists think it could feasibly be possible to conquer aging, but that's not the same as having faith that it will bring immortality.
Fucking christcucks.
>>720381
CREATIONISTS OUT. SHOO.
>>720393
The mob left Paul for dead, after wanting to kill him. Paul recounts that he went to the third heaven in the spirit, as John did.
Are you saying God could not raise Paul from the dead?
I don't hate James. I hate popery, who forces an awful and horrific interpretation of James down the throats of their slaves, keeping them constantly trying to earn their own salvation, by basically Judaizing them as James Judaized his followers.
That I hate. I hate the beliefs and the practices of the Nicolaitans, the Catholics, as does my Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus, Whom I love and adore.
Jesus hates the Whore of Babylon, and warns you to leave, or suffer her fate.
Your choice.
>>720400
Any future belief that is unseen is believed by faith, as faith is the human ability to believe the unseen.
Scientists working towards making men immortal are seeing the end of their labor by faith.
Faith is not a religious term. It's a human ability.
>>720405
I like it here. So many lost. So many papists. Such a target rich environment.
>>720390
I agree except they are usually cursing at the batshit Baptist and Evangelical Christianity which has nothing to do with the historical Christianity that Jesus founded.
>>720406
Are the Church Fathers Protestant in belief?
>>716594
Pagan is not farmer. It's rural. The pagus is the countryside.
The rest of his claim is ok.
>>720406
I love it when you guys try to use the parts of the bible you wanted removed in the first place against us.
I will not leave my Church. I am happy with the overall good it does, and happy with my general lot in life. I will continue to hold my faith in Christ, and I will continue to do my best to be a good person.
What I won't do, is say your faith or church is false. I think your faith is most likely genuine, and that your church means well. However you should really let go of the hate, it corrupts the spirit.
>>720419
You, sir, are the deviant in question.
>>720421
The cherrypicked proto-catholics, that all hate Jews? Those guys? They guys that lived 1500 years before the word "protestant" was coined?
>>720429
I want you to be very clear with yourself.
Your faith is in your Church to save you.
>>720438
Nope. My faith is in Jesus to save me. Though I trust in the church to provide guidance and teaching.
Im being pretty clear with myself. I choose this church.
>>720450
Why should Jesus save you?
>>720450
Wow, I read that wrong. My apologies.
You know that you are not saved. You hope Jesus saves you in the future.
What a horrible situation you're in, by following your "church".
>>720464
You know what I meant. English is my second language, so a grammatical mistake will have to be allowed.
I'm happy with my lot in life, and my life in the church.
>>720493
If you do not know that you are already saved, right now, and that once you are saved you are saved forever, then no, it was not a mistake of the language.
It was a clear message that your church does not teach salvation, and does not teach that once saved, you have no need for them.
The catholic church does not teach you that you can know that you are saved. First, because you are not, and second, because they are not.
John the beloved, however, did write, in the bible, that you can KNOW that you are saved:
1 John 5
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may
know
that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
So who are you going to believe? Your local "priest", or John the beloved apostle?
>>720437
None of them believe in sola scriptUra
>>720582
None of the people usurping authority over people by manufacturing their own tradition over the scripture, believe that the scripture is the primary source of authority and that their manufactured tradition is garbage.
kek
You're so lost dude. You don't even have a compass.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
>>720433
Nope, those are Protestants like you.
You worship an egomaniac. An evil deity who treats all like puppets and hides the truth!
Death to such a deity! We must kill him if he exists!
Your god is none other than Satan himself, the father of lies
>>720597
>Lalaalalalalla I can't hear you
GET REKT little bitch.
Now come over here and give my vulva a kiss
>>720641
Protetants. Martin Luther led Protestants, from the 16th century, in the 1st century.
You're losing it dude.
AIDS?
>>720645
1 Corinthians
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
>>720688
Protestants are those that believe in Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
Time to grow a brain.
Maybe it will grow when I pump your pucci with my seed
>>720691
>cannot answer to evidence and history
>be arrogant and be self righteous
This is turning me on.
>>720692
I'll take "Terms from the 16th century, Alex!"
>>720696
I already told you the answer. The vile, disgusting Jew hating proto-catholics who eventually infested Rome with their pagan perversion of Chrsitianity are not my forefathers.
My forefathers had nothing to do with Rome, and escaped her bloody clutches. there have been Christians for 1984 years; there have only bee papists for 1691.
>>720702
Sola Scripturists and Sola Fideists like you simply add to the list of heresies.
Now go back and be a good puppet and worship the father of lies before he burn you in hell forever.
Idiot
>>720710
And they are no sects or anyone that believe in your crap for those same years
Too bad if your god is so evil that he abandoned his own Creation for centuries and let people suffer all because of it.
What a fucking cuck
>>716482
They would literally buttfuck cattle if they felt yahweh demanded it. Absolutely anything he is said to say, if decreed by the church, needs to be done. The less it makes sense, the more a divine mystery it is, the better you are for having faith to do it.
>>720712
Irenaeus, (130-202), “We have known the method of our salvation by no other means than those by whom the gospel came to us; which gospel they truly preached; but afterward, by the will of God, they delivered to us in the Scriptures, to be for the future the foundation and pillar of our faith,” (Adv. H. 3:1)
.
Clement of Alexandria (150?-213?), “They that are ready to spend their time in the best things will not give over seeking for truth until they have found the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves,” (Stromata 7:16:3).
Origen (185?-252), “No man ought, for the confirmation of doctrines, to use books which are not canonized Scriptures,” (Tract. 26 in Matt.).
There's you some "sola scriptura" early fathers, sodomite. Oh wait, there's more!
>>720725
St. Cyprian of Carthage (200?-258), “Whence comes this tradition? Does it descend from the Lord’s authority, or from the commands and epistles of the apostles? For those things are to be done which are there written . . . If it be commanded in the gospels or the epistles and Acts of the Apostles, then let this holy tradition be observed,” (Cyprian of Carthage, Ep. 74 ad Pompeium).
Athanasius (300?-375),
“The Holy Scriptures, given by inspiration of God, are of themselves sufficient toward the discovery of truth. (Orat. adv. Gent., ad cap.) The Catholic Christians will neither speak nor endure to hear anything in religion that is a stranger to Scripture; it being an evil heart of immodesty to speak those things which are not written,” (Athanasius, Exhort. ad Monachas).
"5. Again it is not tedious to speak of the [books] of the New Testament. These are, the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Afterwards, the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles (called Catholic), seven, viz., of James, one; of Peter, two; of John, three; after these, one of Jude. In addition, there are fourteen Epistles of Paul, written in this order. The first, to the Romans; then two to the Corinthians; after these, to the Galatians; next, to the Ephesians; then to the Philippians; then to the Colossians; after these, two to the Thessalonians, and that to the Hebrews; and again, two to Timothy; one to Titus; and lastly, that to Philemon. And besides, the Revelation of John. 6 These are fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness. Let no man add to these, neither let him take ought from these. For concerning these the Lord put to shame the Sadducees, and said, 'Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures.' And He reproved the Jews, saying, 'Search the Scriptures, for these are they that testify of Me.' " (Athanasius, Festal Letter 39:5-6).
Oh wait, more!
>>720729
"Vainly then do they run about with the pretext that they have demanded Councils for the faith's sake; for divine Scripture is sufficient above all things; but if a Council be needed on the point, there are the proceedings of the Fathers, for the Nicene Bishops did not neglect this matter, but stated the doctrine so exactly, that persons reading their words honestly, cannot but be reminded by them of the religion towards Christ announced in divine Scripture."
(Athanasius, De Synodis, 6).
Ambrose (340?-396), “How can we use those things which we do not find in the Holy Scriptures?” (Ambr. Offic., 1:23).
Cyril of Jerusalem (315?-386), “Not even the least of the divine and holy mysteries of the faith ought to be handed down without the divine Scriptures. Do not simply give faith to me speaking these things to you except you have the proof of what I say from the divine Scriptures. For the security and preservation of our faith are not supported by ingenuity of speech, but by the proofs of the divine Scriptures,” (Cat. 4).
Jerome (342?-420), “Those things which they make and find, as it were, by apostolical tradition, without the authority and testimony of Scripture, the word of God smites. (ad Aggai 1) As we deny not those things that are written, so we refuse those things that are not written.
Ok, that should do.
>>720724
And the maddening thing is that if this pope said to do so, fifty years from now catholics will say that they have always been committing bestiality for Jesus.
Most of these ridiculous beliefs of theirs "evolved" over time, most particularly their deification of Mary, and this pernicious "infallibility" doctrine. Such things happened only a few centuries ago.
>>720766
>deification of Mary
Your worship of God must be piss poor if it resembles our reverence for the New Ark of the Covenant
>>720725
1)Refers to the Gospel which is the foundation of Faith. It is revealed through the Scriptures. Also uses Apostolic Succession to prove the validity of Christianity as well to the Gnostics.
The regula Fidei is also to Irenaeus the way to read the Scriptures not by Sola Scriptura.
2)Comes from someone who believes that the Apostles passed on Oral Tradition to the Church. Good job idiot.
3)Origen also believes the same as Clement. No surprise both are Alexandrians.
4)Odd that this same person also thinks the Deuterocanon is Scripture. And also, what "tradition" is he talking about? Is he talking about the Church's interpretation of Scripture? No, it's about the Baptism of heretics back into the Church. This doesn't even prove anything since he isn't talking about Tradition in general.
5)Schaff says that Athanasius uses Tradition as a guide to understanding Scripture so this is retarded. If any sufficiency refers to "material" sufficiency in this case which non Sola Scripturists can easily accept such as Erasmus. So pointless.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MAAQGjcjUWoC&pg=PR74&dq=athanasius+tradition+schaff&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwittI_e04TLAhUFPBQKHcvlDCEQ6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=athanasius%20tradition%20schaff&f=false
Some of the Deuterocanon, he accepts as Scripture. And Schaff is a fucking Reformed.
Good job being an idiot.
why do christians believe the christ is physically there during the eucharist anyway? what makes them think that? where'd that come from?
>>720802
kek
The ark of the covenant holds sin and death; man's rebellion against God's Law, man's rebellion against God's High Priest, and man's rebellion against God's provision.
Yes, you worship the Law of Sin and Death, and have deified the Queen of Heaven, who, of course, is the pagan goddess of Babylon.
You just changed her name to Mary.
>>720815
So you admit you were wrong? No? All of those quotes from all of those early christians stating that the scriptues are the highest authority they have?
kek
So, so lost. No compass. Such a dark and lost soul you are.
>>720837
Christians don't have the eucharist. Catholics do.
Christians have communion.
Wherever there are two or more Christians gathered, Jesus is in their midst.
It was a teaching to the home based church that they did not need to go to the Temple with thousands of people to try to catch a glimpse the glory of God.
That God Himself would be there, with them, in their small groups.
The Catholics, cannibals and vampires that they are, believe that the crackers and juice LITERALLY TURN INTO HUMAN FLESH AND BLOOD.
They are vile.
>>720843
>The ark of the covenant holds sin and death; man's rebellion against God's Law, man's rebellion against God's High Priest, and man's rebellion against God's provision.
Any lurking Jews find that blasphemous?
>>720860
i think he is referring to the borken tablets, which actually kinda makes sense. they were broken because of the golden calf. i dunno, it's an interesting eay of lookig at it.
t. a jew
>>720854
transubstantation (or whatever it's called) is agreed upon by orthodoxes as well though
also i still don't know how that means jesus is litterally physically there, there is nothing in the bible to indicate that
>>720871
I'm not a Jew but last I checked, Moses got a new set of tablets after that justified ragefit and those went in the Ark along with manna and Aaron's Rod.
All not what I'd call "death and sin."
>>720893
yeah, i didnt say i agreed with him, just that it's kind of interesting to point out that aspect of it too. the birken ones are also in the ark.
>>720896
broken*
>>716516
I like these kinds of posts.
Nice little thought experiments.
>>720854
>Christians don't have the eucharist. Catholics do.
And all other historical churches, and half of protestantism.
You are the dumbass that came after 1900 years and deny what was obvious, even for old-school protestantism.
>>720848
I give context on the Fathers and explain more than just a single line from their writings which you simply taken out of context and in isolation from the broader picture.
It's as simple as that.
Your abuse of the Church Fathers will not stand.
NONE of them believe in Sola Scriptura.
>>720854
>John 6:22-58
>lol guyz it's just a symbol!
His audience knew he was speaking literally bud.
>>720310
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize the son of man was suppose to pull out a clock and wait three complete 24 hour cycles before his resurrection. Consider the interpretation of day back then was that the sun was up, not something beginning at 6:00 AM and lasting until 6:00 PM.
>>720860
You have to ask what's in the ark.
1. Broken 10 commandments. Man's rebellion against God's law.
2. Budded staff of Aaron. Man's rebellion against Aaron being the High Priest.
3. Jar of manna. Man's rebellion against the food of the angels, as they grew weary of it and demanded meat.
The Law of Moses is the Law of Sin and Death. You sin, you die. That's it. Because everyone sins, there are provisions for animal sacrifices to temporarily cover over those sins, so that God does not judge the nation.
The top of the ark is the mercy seat, guarded by two angels. It is solid gold, and represents God. (The ark is acadia wood and gold, symbolizing both man and God.) When the High Priest sprinkles the blood on the mercy seat (and doesn't die), the nation is golden for another year.
When my High Priest, Jesus, sprinkled His blood on the real mercy seat in the real ark in the real heaven, it was once, and for all.
Everyone's sins are forgiven them. Paid for, in full, by the blood of the Lamb of God, Christ Jesus.
Now it is my turn to pay back the favor.
1)From scholars
>The first clear attitude to emerge on the relation between Scripture, tradition and the church was the coincidence view: that the teaching of the church, Scripture and tradition coincide. 23 Apostolic tradition is authoritative but does not differ in content from the Scriptures. The teaching of the church is likewise authoritativ e but is only the proclamation of the apostolic message found in Scripture and tradition. The classical embodiment of the coincidence view is found in the writings of Irenaeus and Tertullian. 24
>These both reject the Gnostic claims to a secret tradition supplementing Scripture. 25 Apostolic tradition does not add to Scripture but is evidence of how it is correctly to be interpreted. 26 This tradition is found in those churches which were founded by the apostles, who taught men whose successors teach today. 27 These apostolic churches agree as to the content of the Christian message, in marked contrast to the variations among the heretics. 28 It is important to note that it is the church which is the custodian of Scripture and tradition and which has the authentic apostolic message.
http://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/vox/vol09/scripture_lane.pdf
>The divine Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, as opposed to human writings; and the oral tradition or living faith of the catholic church from the apostles down, as opposed tothe varying opinions of heretical sects—together form one infallible source and rule of faith. Both are vehicles of the same substance: the saving revelation of God in Christ; with this difference in form and office, that the church tradition determines the canon, furnishes the key and true interpretation of the Scriptures, and guards them against heretical abuse. (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Eerdmans: Grand Rapids, MI, 1981 ed., vol. 3, p. 606)
OH WAIT, THERE'S MORE
>>720880
Yeah. Two legs of the same statue, representing Rome East, and Rome West. Romanism lasted a thousand years in Rome, and then a thousand years in Constantinople. (Hence Hitler's Third Reich, or Third Reign of a Thousand Years.)
From the orthodox here, they believe that joining their church, being baptized in their church, and having "holy chrism" spread on them washes away their sins, and lets the Holy Spirit into their body.
There's some other deal with getting slapped in the face with herbs, but that's apparently just an Easter thing.
Both of them have their faith in the church to save them. Both are works based religions, or systems of bondage.
>>720921
Communion. Do this in remembrance of me.
Eucharist. Let's eat God's flesh and drink His blood.
Which one is unworthy again?
>>720934
No, you think you can summarize what people can read for themselves, and come up with a completely different interpretation.
This is due to your ignorance, and your arrogance.
It's a shame you didn't have a man to raise you.
>>720943
They thought, some of them, that He was speaking literally.
Keep reading.
v. 63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
>>720946
Asserting something nobody said. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I said 1 second of either day or night was fine.
Consider that, as I said, and told you, that their day started when they could see three stars.
Count nights and days from any Friday execution to any Sunday resurrection.
You cannot.
They are not there.
Jesus was not crucified on a Friday.
>>720563
That's a clear heresy. No one knows who's saved, who's going to heaven but God. You can't make that call, I can't make that call, no church can make that call, and no, the pope doesn't say who's going there and who's in hell. I can only hope the lord forgives your blasphemy and arrogance at thinking YOU can decide who's going to heaven.
>>720962
"Scholars".
kek
1. By saying tradition is only the scriptures, then the scriptures are prima.
2. By saying there is no tradition like the gnostics, you are saying that the scriptures are prima.
3. By saying the OT and NT are divine, you are saying they are prima.
Try again, furry.
>Saint Ambrose’s interpretative activity is mainly of a pastoral nature and is closely associated with his episcopal ministry in Milan, of which he had a profound consciousness. St. Ambrose was more than a competent preacher of the Divine word 2 ; he strongly believed in his holy duty of transmitting the divine commandments to people, and in fact, he defended them in the course of an era characterized by great social, political and ecclesiastical realignments. The interpretation of the Scripture is not an independent undertaking or even a simple venture; on the contrary, it is inseparably connected to the act of worship in the Church. It is valorized by the Eucharistic congregation, and revealed and enlightened by the holy-spiritual experience
http://www.academia.edu/8896861/THE_INTERPRETATION_OF_SCRIPTURES_BY_AMBROSE_OF_MILAN
>Perhaps the most important aspect of the rule of faith is that it gives us what the Church conceived to be ‘the main body of truth’ (to use Irenaeus’ phrase). The Scriptures are, after all, a body of documents testifying to God’s activity towards men in Christ. They are not a rule of faith, nor a list of doctrines, nor a manual of the articles of a Christian man’s belief. In the rule of faith we have a key to what the Church thought the Scriptures came to, where it was, so to speak, that their weight fell, what was their drift. This interpretation of their drift was itself tradition, a way of handling the Scriptures, a way of living in them and being exposed to their effect, which, while not an original part of the Christian Gospel, not itself the paradosis par excellence, had been developed from the Gospel itself, from its heart, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as an essential part of the existence of the Christian faith in history. (R.P.C. Hanson, Tradition In The Early Church, pp. 128, 12)
OH WAIT, THERE'S MORE
>>720967
>Two legs of the same statue,
Dude, by the time you add all the non-chalcedonian groups, and nestorians, you statue has a lot of legs.
>>720973
Let's see who historically agrees with you in your obvious simplicity.
Let's see, there's... umm, no, those weren't.
But maybe... no.
Nope, absoutely no one.
No one in Christendom at least.
Oh wait, even some islamic groups have some eucharistic sacraments.
>>720975
>Can't answer refutations
>Claim ignorance
Fucking idiot
>>720962
Here's Paul on the subject.
1 Corinthians 4
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us
not to think beyond what is written,
that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
Who's more puffed up than Pontifex Maximus?
/caseclosed
>>720990
Good job asswipe. Let me help you summarize the key points since you are so illiterate.
1)Tradition is not secret like the Gnostics' which is secretive
2)Tradition says the same message as Scripture
3)Tradition is used to interpret and grasp what Scripture means
4)Tradition is the unity of what the Christian message is.
Sola Scriptura and Protestantism both BTFO by a fucking Protestant.
>>720980
Heresy means against the bible, papist.
1 John 5
He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may
know
that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
>>720993
Saku, after all these talks, we should stop responding.
He's either a poor quality troll, or he's a stubborn and stupid conspiracy theorist, with his babylon crap.
>>721003
That's right, don't think beyond what's written which is what the Protestants did.
Even worse is how dishonest they are when it comes to the Church Fathers. Disgusting.
>>720993
>The Scriptures are, after all, a body of documents testifying to God’s activity towards men in Christ
Do you read what you post? But how could you, as your eyes have nothing but darkness in them.
>>720999
The statue is the one Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar about, with the legs of iron representing the Roman empire. Rome, and Constantinople. East and West.
And from them, the 10 kingdom NWO toes of the antichrist.
How about Jesus?
Luke 22:19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
>>721018
Good job being this delusional. And I ain't done yet.
>They are not a rule of faith, nor a list of doctrines, nor a manual of the articles of a Christian man’s belief.
>In the rule of faith we have a key to what the Church thought the Scriptures came to, where it was, so to speak, that their weight fell, what was their drift. This interpretation of their drift was itself tradition
>>721001
Lying about the truth doesn't change the truth.
For instance, you lying about your complete depravity does not suddenly turn you into a solid citizen.
Weird thing is that you hate God for what you turned yourself into.
Go figure.
>>721012
The guy that misrepresented the Fathers isn't the babylon guy.
>>721021
>The statue is the one Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar about, with the legs of iron representing the Roman empire. Rome, and Constantinople. East and West.
And where do non-chalcedonians fit in this?
>>721008
Tradition is tradition, and holy writ is higher. Therefore sola scriptura.
Tradition is obviously not the same as holy writ. See #1. So, this is a lie.
The scripture speaks for itself.
Traditions of men is something God hates.
You are no more a protestant than you are a cucumber.
>>721012
1 Peter 5:13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.
Why are you hating on the "first pope" again?
kek
>>721015
The Traditions of the catholic church are defined as being more than the scriptures.
for instance, everything to do with making Mary the Queen of Heaven, which of course is pure pagan evil.
>>721025
The bible isn't what the bible is, because someone said so?
TOPKEK
>>721029
Same shit, different asshole, i say.
>>721029
Another demonstration of your lack of discernment.
You're not in Babylon, though.
You're in rebellion against God in different and more deathly ways.
Is there anything more pathetic than people who try to police messageboards?
>>721030
The back of the left thigh? Who cares? The entire statue is being destroyed by Jesus!
kek
>>721031
>Tries to turn my citations against me
>Ends up looking like an illiterate fool instead.
Tradition is equal to Scripture and is practically the lens to read it.
It is also the thing that formed the NT and the oral part of it becomes the Tradition we use to read the NT. This Tradition is expressed in the Regula Fidei, the consensus Patrum and councils.
Their form different from Scripture. But their message the same. Two organs proclaiming the truth and enriching each other.
That's not Sola Scriptura. Even Lane shows how Sola Scriptura isn't the Coincidence view of the Early Ante Nicene Fathers later on in that same essay.
Guess you are so scared of the redpill you don't even want to look at it
>>721063
>Tradition is equal to Scripture and is practically the lens to read it.
>Uninspired men are equal to inspired scripture.
Yes, I know you believe lies. This would be one of them.
>>721045
I cite scholars. And your elk as we see can only pervert the Fathers and provide Zero sources from the academia.
Good work looking like a fool.
>>721068
>Scholarly work that echoes the academia
>Lies
That's like me saying my textbook is a lie.
>>721071
I cite Paul the Apostle, in the inspired Word of God.
1 Timothy 3
These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
>>721077
Yes, it's quite clear. Your logical fallacy of appealing to authority, "scholars" and "academia", have nothing when the authority of God is on the line.
Romans 3
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar.
Enjoy your logical fallacy!
>>721077
>That's like me saying my textbook is a lie.
Guess what?
It is!
>>721054
>The back of the left thigh?
No, since they are varied and different groups, separate from both and have existed since way before the Great Schism.
>Who cares?
Anyone who belives in an ounce of logic and history
>The entire statue is being destroyed by Jesus!
Whatever you say, forgery.
>>716557
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. -Matthew 26:26
>>721099
Whatever Jesus says, actually.
You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
...
And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
>>721102
Exactly.
Jesus did not rip chunks of His body up, and drain His blood into the cup.
Oh, and Judas partook. Is Judas saved?
>>721127
You pervert the word of God with heretical lies. You are the kind of filth that would keep the common from reading the bible in the name of tradition. Typical Papist filth.
>>721111
Yeah, yeah, whatever.
Your interpretations are still lies and bullshit, and no hiding behind Jesus can change that.
>>721127
No human being is an authority over the Word of God.
Nobody.
Can't believe that's not completely and totally obvious.
Your textbook teaches you the universe is billions of years old; that we came from bacteria; that we have a common ancestor with monkeys; that life came from non-life; that the universe came from a singularity; it's full of lies.
Chock full of lies.
And you gobble them up like candy.
>>721133
Pretty much a completely depraved reprobate, yes.
And miserable.
Odd that only Jesus can help him out, and he hates Jesus (for some odd reason).
>>721134
I quote you scripture.
You say my interpretation is bullshit.
Are you serious? How old do you think I am? Do you even realize Daniel was written 2600 years ago?
>>721135
You proved my point. Your god truly is the father of lies. And you simply followed in his footsteps by misrepresenting the Fathers. Disgusting.
>>721133
So what if I'm a filthy little cumslut?
I had give my reasoning and provided sources for my claim against you.
You can't. Those on your pathetic side can only pervert truth like that which the Fathers had said.
To all of my catholic sisters and brothers here. Why are you trying to justify yourself and why constantly try to compare our faith to others? All Christians are brothers and try not to trade the meaning of faith for formalities. The truth is that some of the worshiping traditions and dogmas are different. And there are some in catholic case that are ridiculous. My favorite ridiculous one is papal infallibility. And a much better subject to discuss.
>>721140
Are you Daniel? No.
Does your interpretation have any historical precedent? No.
Then it's bullshit.
I heard some men saying, ‘if I find it not in the charters, I do not believe in the
gospel.’ And when I said to them that it is in the scriptures, they answered me,
‘that is exactly the question.’ But to me the charters are Jesus Christ, the
inviolable charter is his cross, and death, and resurrection, and the faith which
is through him.(Ignatius, to the Philadelphians 8.2)
>It would seem that Ignatius’ opponents required a full proof from prophecy for every point in his gospel proclamation. When he says that to him the ‘archives’ are Jesus Christ, his cross and resurrection, this does probably not mean that for Ignatius the Christological creed replaces the scriptures, but rather that the Christological rule of faith contains the hermeneutical canon according to which the scriptures should be interpreted.
>This was no idiosyncrasy of Ignatius; it was to become the common conviction of ecclesiastical theologians. In her fine study of Christian biblical exegesis during the first five centuries, Frances M. Young (1997) has shown that interpreting the scriptures according to the ‘rule of faith’ was implicit in ecclesiastical exegesis before Irenaeus stated it explicitly, and that it remained operative in later exegetes, and can be shown to form the core of Athanasius’ biblical case against the Arians (in the 320s–350s period). The one who interprets scripture apart from the Christology of the creed, says Athanasius, is not in touch with the ‘mind’ (dianoia) of scripture (Young 1997: 17–45).
Sauce: The Early Christian World pg 666-667
To all quoters "how many angels can stand on the tip of the needle at the same time". If you have read summa you will know the answer.
And another one what were the Las words of Jesus?
>>721148
Yup. Depraved reprobate.
Jesus is my advocate; do you think I care about charges you bring against me, when your father, the devil, brings more? And more accurate charges than you ever could?
You do your father's work, and I'll do mine.
>>721153
All Christians are brothers (and sisters).
Catholics are Catholics, not Christians.
So your claim that all Christians and all Catholics are brothers (and sisters) is bogus.
>>721162
Weird, there's no (you) on your idiotic post.
>>721174
Yes, the Nicolaitans set up an established authority to rule over the laity.
Something God hates.
And you love.
>>721204
He's still alive, so the question is kind of vague.
>>720958
And somehow this means the NEW Ark (Mary) is equally broken?
Kek
>>721226
Why are Catholics not Christians?
>>721239
Hehe a good answer to my question
>tfw papist who thinks Francis is retarded
Can we please elect a conservative to call a crusade please
>>721250
Because the new Protestant meme is to call actual followers of the apostles non-Christians.
Meanwhile those same Protestants have gay and female priests.
>>721223
Your father is an evil deity who predestines me like a puppet.
Me having my boipucci pounded by men is only because your God wanted to see porn of me being a little cute feminine cat.
Your father is the devil, the father of lies as shown by how your elk misrepresent the Church Fathers.
why are Protestants so anally devistated
>>716704
Beats worshipping dudes on Television.
>muh graven images
>muh sola scriptura
Meme sect
>>721269
Then you must fear this anon poster because he is son of a devil?
>>721295
>Muh works not faith
>Muh female priests who take down crosses to not offend Muslims
>>721295
We want moar on the meme sect..
>>716516
>anti science
You lost me there, mate.
>>721299
The devil hates truth and is repelled by it.
So I simply post and show the truth.
Lo and behold the son of the Devil trembles in fear!
At the meantime, I want to become a trap getting pounded by a qt girl
>>721304
This. Protestants break more rules in the bible than any other Christian faith
>If you don't believe in the Torah and that a jewish carpenter was literally god you're a fedora tipping neckbeard.
Explain yourselves christfags
>>721320
>I believe that everything happened randomly and it JUST HAPPENED.
>>721331
These aren't the only options.
Why believe the jewish scriptures over any other cultures?
>>721340
Because:
Hindus: Poo in Loo
Shintoism: fedora meme
paganism: dude weed Mother Nature lmao
>>720381
Yeah sure buddy. Who needs facts when your "saved"
>>720976
>flesh is bad
>Gnosticism
>>721246
No, it means that your notion of Mary being the ark is coming from Dan Brown, not the bible.
>>721250
Because the requirements to be a Catholic are different from the requirements to be a Christian, and if one's highest and best identity is as a Catholic, a member of the catholic church, then one is not by necessity, or even chance, a Christian.
If you're asking why they are Catholics instead of Christians, it is because they believe the catholic lie that there is no salvation outside of the catholic church. So their faith is in their church to save them.
>>721253
kek
To answer your real question, the last of the seven things Jesus said on the cross was "Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit."
Er, not in English, of course. Hebrew? Aramaic? They're pretty close cousins.
>>721269
He knows your every move, yes. And did from before you were born. And did, from before He made the world.
Nevertheless, you are free to choose Him, or to reject Him, because He gave you that right, and that power.
You might want to stop listening to the devil describe God to you. He's not as you think He is.
>>721317
Has it ever occurred to you that following rules isn't the Way?
The Jews already had 613 rules, yes?
What do you think Jesus did? Enforced those rules?
>>721320
Turns out the spiritual world is dialectic. For Jesus, or Against Jesus. Anyone who is not For Jesus is by default Against Jesus.
For Jesus ends up in heaven, and Against Jesus ends up alone, in the dark, and on fire.
>>721410
Keep on breaking the commandments you vile hypocrite. Jesus said to respect the 10 commandments too.
>>721352
Who needs lies, when you have the truth?
You know there are creation scientists, with the same Ph.D.s from the same Ivy League schools, who see the evidence completely differently than you do, yes?
>>721378
Eating human flesh, and drinking human blood, is against the Law of Moses, that Jesus gave to Moses, and is therefore bad, yes.
You need the Holy Spirit in you, resurrecting you to eternal life, not human flesh and blood.
Jesus says "I am the Bread from heaven" and the papists look to slice him into toast!
>>721418
No, Jesus said to keep them perfectly, as God the Father in heaven is perfect.
Do you do that?
>>721408
The devil's name is Calvin. He told me that.
And Protestantism told me that God can't keep his promises and gets mad at me for something someone else did.
Now would you like me to become your cute little cat, I'll swallow :)
>>721433
I'm surprised your father told you his name. There is power in names.
(I'm not a calvinist. You're wasting your time. As usual.)
So God can forgive anything, but, how do i forgive myself?
>>721465
Are your standards for forgiveness higher than God's, Who became a human being, a humble and poor human being, and was tortured to death on a cross, just so that He could forgive you?
>>721469
I understand your point, but i still can't get ride of this pain on my chest.
Am i worth enough to be forgiven? do i even deserve it?
Sometimes i don't want kindness, i want to be punished for my actions.
>>721451
Your father is Satan who hates truth.
This is evident when you yourself oppose truth when it is given to you.
You have been a naughty boi. Time for you to get punished. Now pound my boipucci hard and fast and make me feel like a slut. I'll wear women's clothes and catears too
>>721476
Bro, one of the toughest things I had to come to grips with was that not only was I not worth saving, I was not worth forgiving, and nothing I can ever do for an eternity will ever pay Jesus back for what He did.
Jesus is about grace, and mercy. Truth, grace, and mercy.
Grace is getting what you do not deserve.
Mercy is not getting what you do deserve.
Since all of your sins were forgiven you at the cross, out of that abundance of forgiveness for all that you have done, can you not find just a little forgiveness for yourself, and others?
What you are going through will make you more humble, and stronger. Much, much stronger. Rejoice in your trials. God is good.
>>721422
There are a very very small minority of "creation" scientists, many who do not actually specialize in the fields there commenting on, and are the laughing stock of the scientific world.
you know that yes?
>>720177
But the latter part of that is literally what I was raised to believe as a Baptist.
>>716482
All Catholics are retarded pegans
>>721427
Jesus isn't JUST human though. He is Human and Divine, completely and simoultaniously Human and Divine.
That distinction makes all the difference.
>>721384
Actually that's one of the few things he got right.
>>721427
>papists look to slice him into toast!
What does that even mean?
>>722791
Nothing, Proddy be proddin'
>>722842
So no showing anyone with a higher rank or level of authority than you respect?
Because. Cornelius didn't respect Peter out of rank there, HE EXPLICITLY TRIED TO WORSHIPED PETER LIKE A GOD BECAUSE AN ANGEL SAID "GO MEET WITH THIS GUY."
