Why is the Middle East such a violent fuckhole? I want to know historical facts that explain this.
>>531969
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitioning_of_the_Ottoman_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'athism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement
Some good starting points there
>>531969
the nation state disease spread by its carrier the parasite species.
Islam
>>531969
power vaccume after the fall of the Ottoman empire
>>531969
>Middle East
>Pakistan
Stop placing my country in the middle-east.
>>531969
Mainly because of the horrible post colonial borders forced into the area after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Think about the most stable states in the area and I garuntee that they are the only countires that developed borders naturally rather than with a ruler
>>531969
Political Judaism and Israel.
>>531969
>-stan
>middle east
>>531969
Arab/semitic genetics (strong propensity for tribalism and violence) combined with a lack of major barriers for rapid movement of large groups. It's hard to invade Iceland, but Iraq is surrounded by hostile countries who could invade any moment, for example.
>>532881
also Caucasus
who makes these maps?
>>531969
>Central Asia, Afghanistan, Indus River Valley, Caucasia
>middle east
This is why democracy is flawed.
>>532889
Thats bullshit /pol/friend agressive tendencies can mostly be attributed to the lack of education of a populace and prosperity because when a populace becomes educated and rich they become pacified hedonistic cucks like the swedes.
>>532889
>strong propensity for tribalism and violence
You know, any honest "racialist" looking back at Europe 1500 years ago should conclude that Germanics/Nordics have a strong propensity for tribalism and violence. In fact, Aryanists concluded just that.
>>531969
The cornerstone of their culture is the Muslim faith.
>>532929
>>532912
Of course any group will have a range of "potential" behaviors it will exhibit given the environment. But there are still average differences. For example, when the Germanic barbarians sacked Rome, they were notably merciful with the defeated citizens - almost no raping or killing by the Goths was recorded, for example.
Contrast that with modern Arabs in Cologne, for example, over 1500 years later, who rape and molest conquered German women for sport.
Semites have always been violent, brutish people. Pretty much anything that originated on the Arabian peninsula is barbarian tier humanity. Islam was a boon to the region. It tamed and civilized the wild Arab instincts.
>>532951
Further, imagine if there was a complete Arab takeover of Germany. The raping, assaulting, killing, and pillaging would be monumental. Perhaps we will see this transpire in real life.
>>532957
This. Islam channeled the violent clannishness of the pagan Arabia into something that could unite formerly warring tribes, enabling them to become the threat to civilization they now are.
>>531983
> Europe and Islam
Got it.
>>532951
Many of the city's great buildings were ransacked, including the mausoleums of Augustus and Hadrian, in which many Roman Emperors of the past were buried; the ashes of the urns in both tombs were scattered.[79] Any and all moveable goods were stolen all over the city. Structural damage to buildings was largely limited to the areas near the old Senate house and the Salarian Gate, where the Gardens of Sallust were burned and never rebuilt.[80][81] The Basilica Aemilia and the Basilica Julia were also burned.[82][83]
The city's citizens were devastated. Many Romans were taken captive, including the Emperor's sister, Galla Placidia. Some citizens would be ransomed, others would be sold into slavery, and still others would be raped and killed.[84] Refugees from Rome fleeing the Goths flooded the province of Africa.[85] Jerome wrote that Heraclian, the Count of Africa, sold some of the young refugees into Eastern brothels.[86]
Many Romans were tortured into revealing the locations of their valuables. One was the 85-year-old[87] Saint Marcella, who had no hidden gold as she lived in pious poverty. She was a close friend of Jerome, and he detailed the incident in a letter to a woman named Principia who had been with Marcella during the sack.
"When the soldiers entered [Marcella's house] she is said to have received them without any look of alarm; and when they asked her for gold she pointed to her coarse dress to shew them that she had no buried treasure. However they would not believe in her self-chosen poverty, but scourged her and beat her with cudgels. She is said to have felt no pain but to have thrown herself at their feet and to have pleaded with tears for you [Principia], that you might not be taken from her, or owing to your youth have to endure what she as an old woman had no occasion to fear. "
>>532981
Second sack:
It is accepted that Genseric looted great amounts of treasure from the city, damaging objects of cultural significance such as the Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus by stripping away the gilt bronze roof tiles (hence the modern term vandalism[3]), and also took Licinia Eudoxia and her daughters hostage.[4] Eudocia later married Huneric. There is, however, some debate over the severity of the Vandal sack. The sack of 455 is generally seen as being more thorough than the Visigothic sack of 410,[5] because the Vandals plundered Rome for fourteen days whereas the Visigoths spent only three days in the city.
The cause of most controversy is the claim that the sack was relatively "clean", in that there was little murder and violence, and the Vandals did not burn the buildings of the city. This interpretation seems to stem from Prosper's claim that Leo managed to persuade Genseric to refrain from violence. However, Victor of Vita records how many shiploads of captives arrived in Africa from Rome, with the purpose of being sold into slavery. Similarly, the Byzantine historian Procopius reports that at least one church was burnt down.
>>532981
>>533001
They were certainly brutal, and everyone knows they looted the fuck out of Rome. But the raping and killing are almost nil when compared with, say, the Mongols (holy fuck, like a new genocide every time they sacked a city) or the Muslims (Byzantines were fully wiped out, Egypt and North Africa are now fully Arabized and Islamicised, etc etc). Whereas Rome still remained Rome (Christian, Latin-speaking etc), albeit weaker.
You can't compare looting and a little burning to the major genocides, both cultural and genetic, that successful Asiatic armies have constantly leveled on their conquered foes.
>>532957
>tfw the West worships a semitic man
>tfw the West uses the phoenician(Who were semetic)alphabet
>tfw Laissez-faire was inspired by the phoenician economic system
>tfw arabs were the first foriegners to defeat the Chinese in Talas centuries before the Mongol/Manchu/British
>tfw the most powerful Western Country is controlled by Jewish Semites
>>532837
To be fair for the uninformed (like myself) it is easy to lump them in there. Especially for Americans we look at that whole area and series of events involving terrorism and Afghanistan as the same shit.
This is probably why our efforts are so wasted and ineffective but I digress.
>>531969
Iran and Saudi Arabia aren't violent
After the Ottoman empire collapsed in ww1 Britain and Europe arbitrarily divided up the region and made fake countries
>>533028
That doesn't show a propensity for tribalism and violence, that shows a propensity for thorough subjugation and assimilation/conversion/extermination.
Meanwhile the Germanics were content sacking civilized Latins once in a while and leaving so they could fight them again another day.
Which propensity should most likely result in lasting peace? Yet the precise opposite happened.
>>533028
>Byzantines were fully wiped out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanariotes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical_Patriarchate_of_Constantinople
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)
And of course:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece
If it was a genocide then it was the world's most botched genocide before the Holocaust.
>Egypt and North Africa are now fully Arabized and Islamicised
Yeah, after over a millennium of Muslim rule.
Meanwhile the Romans had latinized and Christianized North Africa, Egypt and the Levant in a couple of centuries.
>>533092
>muh european colonialism
The cities in the middle east were already incredibly heterogeneous there would be no logical way to divide them into nation states without mass deportations. Also France attempted to divide Syria among tribal lines as best as possible but Arab Nationalists undermined them.
>>533145
>It's always been a shithole
What are you even doing on /his/?
>>533139
>latinized and Christianized
No they didn't retard. Easterners spoke their native languages and if anything else Greek for trade. Many christianized of their own will, and indeed you could say that it was more the easterners that Christianized the romans since Rome was pagan before, while Christianity was born and grew in the east much quicker
>>533153
in addition, a great amount of christians in North Africa and the Levant were considered heretics by the Roman church. The christianization of the middle east was entirely organic. Europe is where christianity was forced on it's inhabitants.
>>533151
It always has. Don't bother mentioning some bullshit about le golden age because anything that occurred at that time happened because Baghdad happened to be the richest city on the planet and thus attracted all the intellectuals and all the money. It was never more than a blip of goodness in a sea of shit.
>>531994
pretty hard to call it that when they're not nation states
>>533153
>Easterners spoke their native languages
I'm sure they did, just like the other subjects of the Roman Empire from Portugal to Romania. Granted, the Levantine were more Hellenized than Latinizied (because the Greeks had started influencing them earlier, and were culturally protected under Roman rule) and Coptic remained something of a prestige language in Egypt (though not equal to Greek and Latin.) But North Africa? Just look at the life of Augustine of Hippo.
Language is just the type of the iceberg as anyway. Ever wonder why we find nothing but Greco-Roman monuments in Tyre?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tyre
>you could say that it was more the easterners that Christianized the romans
The Christian Jews Christianized the Roman elites, who subsequently Christianized their Empire.
>Many christianized of their own will
"Many" islamicized of their own will.
>>533175
>It's always been a shithole
>Baghdad happened to be the richest city on the planet and thus attracted all the intellectuals and all the money
It's incredible that you see nothing contradictory in your claims.
>>533233
One city =/= religion of Islam, fucking idiot
>>533226
You are very uninformed
>>533226
>The Christian Jews Christianized the Roman elites
wat
>>533226
>type
tip, fuck.
>>533173
>a great amount of christians in North Africa and the Levant were considered heretics by the Roman church
That's not really true until the 5th century and later, unless you mean Gnostics.
The centers of Chalcedonian Christianity were Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria and Antioch.
Granted, plenty of heresies took hold, like those of Donatus Magnus and Cyril of Alexandria.
By the way, most the provincial and heretical theologians weren't natives, or had at least partial Greek and Roman ancestry. Kinda hard to claim that Christianization happened organically when religion was dictated by Greco-Roman elites who somehow ended up ruling the entire Mediterranean basin.
>>533244
The Middle East =/= religion of Islam.
>>533269
Yeah and before the fifth century and even after there were a ton of pagans still
>>533258
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Romans#The_churches_in_Rome
>>531994
the idea of nation states isn't a disease
I don't know why people are so mad when you blame Islam. It's a restrictive, culturally disruptive religion that encourages lots of violent things. The traditions and practices associated with the religion are more "indoctrinating" because it's so restrictive and hateful against the infidel. Although Arabs accomplished a lot of things at their cultural summit in the middle ages, the only way Islam aided that was creating a connection between Arabic tribes and the rest of the middle east. The middle east is a violent fuckhole because of jihad, the need to eradicate infidels, the existence of ideological subdivision caused by the modern world's concept of politics and ultimately Mohammed for creating such a shitty religion.
>>533144
source please
>>532889
>Arab/semitic genetics (strong propensity for tribalism and violence)
C I T A T I O N N E E D E D
I hate how this refugee crisis brought up so many dumb idiots who have no touch with history and who think history starts after world War 2, they listened to a 15 minute youtube clip by some fat tinfoil basement dweller ranting about Islam and now they think they've been 'redpilled' or some shit. When will it end?
>>533080
Fucking communism ruins everything man
>>535484
I always wondered whats the difference between Nationalism and Tribalism other than one is more "Mordern"
>>535746
Fucking commies supporting secular groups in the middle east forcing the US to support islamic fundamentalists
>>535484
Well you don't see white people flying planes into buildings, stoning women for fucking, cutting off hands for stealing, lighting POWs on fire, using chemical weapons, mass raping people in the country that took them in in a time of need...
And don't be like hurr durr 'white people have use chemical weapons and drones and I'm a fucking retard'.
Drones are retaliation and the safest way to fuck up the goat-fuckers and we stopped with the chemicals agter WW1 when we realized we were civilized. Agent Orange was an accident.
>>535519
Or maybe sandniggers are just sandniggers.
>>532738
Break out the Fedora jokes too, Mohammed
>>536240
>>532889
The Japanese were horribly brutal and violent during their invasion of China all the way through WW2. And now? Japan is one of the most peaceful countries on the planet.
The Vikings would regularly raid, rape, and kill innocent villagers and monks in northern Europe, sometimes capturing them and using them for their pagan sacrific rituals. And now? The Nordic countries are all extremely peaceful, Iceland doesn't even have a military and Sweden has been neutral in all wars since the 19th century.
Genetics has nothing to do with it.
>>536240
> every white incident of barbarism is an accident that can easily be relativized and excused
> every Muslim incident of violence is genetics
Christ I hate /pol/tards, did you faggots ever consider that the Middle East might be a whole lot more peaceful if we:
a. Stopped invading their countries on flimsy reasons
b. Stopped supporting neocolonial Israel
c. Stopped removing leaders we don't like
d. Stopped sending weapons to whichever violent fuckwhat we deem 'democratic opposition'.
>>536240
>white people
which ones fucktard, which ones ???
when, where who to, why, how, what with ???
what the fuck are you even doing on /his, you poltard faggot
>>533244
One can tell from the way you are posting, that you are not particularly educated.
>>535317
> only way Islam aided that was creating a connection between Arabic tribes and the rest of the middle east
Bullshit, this is just plainly false
>>536355
Arabs always blame their problems on external agents if you give them half the chance.
The real issue is that medieval cultures don't work very well in modern industrial societies.
>>531969
Not even memeing: foreign meddling. Including the local meddlers Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel. We're talking about direct confrontations here, not some abstract form of meddling.
Why is something as simple as (long-term) stability and peace so underestimated when talking about the middle east? Look at the Balkans, they were a fucking disaster after their wars and stability has allowed them to recover fairly quickly. The middle east hasn't been allowed that.
>>536455
>The real issue is that medieval cultures don't work very well in modern industrial societies.
I get it! That must be why we're helpfully bombing them back to the Stone Age, right?
>>531969
>Why is the Middle East such a violent fuckhole?
The Religion of Peace.
>>536455
Can you imagine what Europe would be like, if each and every country had to deal with a violent and subversive fifth column of protestants, catholics, fascists, communists, Irish, Basques or some other ethnic minority?
And if the only reason your government was in power was that they happened to receive financial and military aid for the specific purpose of suppressing one of these groups to the detriment of the others?
If every time an independent minded government conducted a policy that was in its own people's interest instead of some foreign hegemon, they were ousted and their people slaughtered?
I imagine you can't, seeing as in spite of this being a history board, you seem to have no idea how violent Europe was until 1945, even 1990 in some cases.
>>536509
This. I can't believe how commonplace this has become people literally think "it's just a bombing bro get over it".
It has a lot to do with them sitting on butt load of oil that has inherent value. They don't need to assimilate in with anything. They have what the big powers need and don't need to invest in themselves or develop to make money.
Religion is just a tool to push the agenda of the elite and other powers so I don't think Islam has anything to do with it.
>>536509
Europe will likely go apeshit at each other Once Again in a few decades
>>536568
I guess this explains why the investment fonds of Saudia Arabia, UAE and Qatar are investing so heavily in a myriad of different technologies
>>536455
the real issue is that medieval cultures dont work well with kalasnjikofs and stockpiles of high explosives
>>535317
Saying that Islam is the sole reason for the middle east being a shithole, is like saying that the only reason the TRE/WRE fell was because of the christianity.
>>535317
>I don't know why people are so mad when you blame Islam.
Because it's a monocausal explanation that is not remotely helpful, accurate, productive or conducive to actually understanding the problems we face in any way
>>531983
I'd subtract ba'athism and the iranian revolution and substitute the resources curse tbph famwise gamgee.
>>535317
Because you are falling for a big fat red herring you idiot.
>>536904
You're replying to me tbqhwymf, I think Ba'athism deserves to be up there because of its inherent conflict with Islamism.
And the Iranian Revolution was an insular event but did send shockwaves around the region, the imagery of bearded dudes in turbans "defeating" the West was pretty iconic and inspirational for even Sunni groups like Hamas
Hi, just thought I'd post something I wrote a while back in a similar thread before bed.
The Middle East has been unstable since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1. This instability has been worsened by several things
>Israel
>Western Imperialism
>Information
The first two are easy to understand. Israel, Western interventions and the like have led to reactionary groups, tensions and prolonged conflicts. On top of which the Middle East is also politically fractured between different spheres of influence since the Ottoman collapse.
Less well known is the effect of information, The Ottoman Empire actively banned the printing press, well into the 19th century the majority of books in the Ottoman Middle East were scribed by hand.
Now, anyone with a rudimentary understanding of European history can tell you about the political and religious consequences that printing led to in the West. The Middle East has not only been exposed to printing, but television, the Internet and rapid growth of literacy and industrialization within a relatively short period of time.
Which, combined with political instability, conflict, Israel, Western dominance and influence - has led to an explosion of political and religious thought in the entire region.
TL:DR The Middle East is going through events similar to the reformation, industrial revolution and enlightenment at once- combined with being politically fractured.
The only way for it to end is for a Middle Eastern Treaty of Westphalia, combined with a new Middle Eastern hegemon to dominate the region and control it's development.
>>537004
Yeah I realised basically as I clicked submit that the revolution was a big trigger for the iran-iraq war, which is a whole other raft of problems
>>532951
Stop m8 you're killing me
>>532951
my fucking sides holy shiy
Read your Bible.
>>536722
it is the problem, Islam, because you have a struggle within Islam between Shia and Sunni. The west did not cause that.
>>532957
>civilized
yeah because that worked
>>537573
>The west did not cause that
I didn't say it did.
Besides, the Sunni-Shia divide is far from the most pressing issue in the region today considering most regional states are fairly homogenous anyway.
Salafi-jihadism is vastly more significant problem and that's an exclusively Sunni doctrine
This is going to sound very /pol/, but the degree of consanguinity on the Arabian peninsula probably isn't helping the Muslim world a whole lot.
>>531994
This, indeed.
Middle East is like a WWE ring, only difference is, fights are real
>>531969
Everything from sectarianism, to colonialism to Twitter. Anything negative you can think of. There's nothing more that could possibly go wrong other than nukes flying (give it some time though, I'm sure we'll see that)
Even before the islam it still was a violent shithole
>>536355
So leave the earth's most important resource to a bunch of violent sand niggers? Since when is is not okay to invade for resources? It's basically the cause if every ancient war glorified on this board.
The Jews suck, but they're an advantageous 'ally' to the US.
It's their violent, tribal attitudes, not to mention their fucking religion.
Typical sand nigger blaming others for problems caused by sand niggers.
>>536599
investment is a business venture, they make no scientific efforts themselves. They don't have the motivation to innovate as they have inherent worth, they are basically "the hot girl" of nations, with all the expected drama.
