>meanwhile on the History Channel
>>508926
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc
From what I know of Medieval combat, that looks accurate.
Did Hitler's rise to power come from ancient Atlanteans?
>>508965
No.
Actually, it was aliens!
Aztec/Egyptian aliens!
Haunted by GHOSTS!
>>508970
Fugg :-DDDDDDDDDDDD
>>508970
That Hitler found in a storage unit and tried to sell at a pawn shop in Alaska.
>80% of the program is shows on auctions and buying/fixing shit
>rest is shows on working men who do dangerous jobs
>once in a blue moon there's something on ww2
Meanwhile, NatGeo actually has cool historical stuff pretty often.
topkek
>>508926
What the fuck, that doesn't look safe at all. That hit towards the guy in armour at the end must have hurt like hell.
>>508970
Hitler was black desu
>>508953
This. Isn't it called half swording or something like that?
>>508926
"Look, the best I can do is $45. I'm the one taking a risk here, I can't go any higher. I have to store it, frame it, get it appraise, there will be overhead costs, plus I'm not even sure how long something like this is going to sit in my store and take up inventory space"
>>509025
>guy is selling the first series of original Star Wars figures
>I'm the one taking a risk here
>>509000
Yes, but John Clemens, the guy in the vid is something like the running gag of the HEMA world.
If you are interested in legit armored combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg
>>508926
This is sort of how it would've went, if the other guy was in armour. However because he isn't in armour, the armoured man has no reason to half sword or anything.
>>509071
>This is sort of how it would've went, if the other guy was in armour. However because he isn't in armour, the armoured man has no reason to half sword or anything.
Amen, just mind your distance and strike the pleb down.
>checks History Channel
>Ancient Aliens is actually on right now
>>508926
Look pal, the History Channel might be shit, but that's actually a pretty neat webbum.
>>508926
The techniques are legit
John Clement (the guy in red) is a quack
>>509102
Look at bottom right, it has natgeo on it
>not watching the American Heroes Channel
It's the history channel we all grew up with.
>>509144
Is that the one that replaced the military channel? I've avoided it because I thought it was mostly going to be boring murrica stuff.
>>509066
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuTR2T6rka4
This is all I know.
>>508926
>National Geographic water mark
I hope this is bait.
>>509782
Yep. Honestly, the History Channel has been getting better. They are not nearly back to its glorious pre-2005 stage, but it is better than its cancerous 2009 stage.
>>509177
You were right. The chanfe from military channel to american heroes channel wasnt nearly as bad as history channels change but its still really bad. Its like 40% FBI crime shit, 40% hitler conspiracies, and 20% miscellaneous shit that is sometimes okay but usually just reruns of their old programming thats often only played during late night/ early morning
>>509782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi757-7XD94
H2, nat geo, science channel, and AHC sometimes have watchable shit on. Wish my cable had the various PBS's, and that our package included Smithsonian channel.
So hard to find something that isn't complete garbage these days...
Holding the blade end was a legitimate tactic in sword fighting after gauntlets became common equipment, so think after the first crusades. Armour was heavy and although those swords aren't that long, a claymore sword can be very difficult to hold just by the hilt.
Before then, you'd more likely find infantry supporting the blade end with the sides of their shield. Swords were shorter though, in fact many would prefer axes due to not being professional soldiers and it being lighter.
tried out netflix recently expecting just mostly a bunch of movies and TV shows I'd probably have already seens.
Turns out there's a shit ton of gr8 history related series and documentaries, a lot of which I've never even heard of but were really good
Fuck cable desu
>>509803
Could you recommend some?
>>508926
No reason for the armored fellow to half-sword, but both the half-sword and murder stroke are historical techniques.
>>508965
>Watch something decent on history channel in the morning
>finishes, just leave my tv on and mute it, see some viking longship shit on later and I'm like hey what's this, this might be interesting
>unmute it
>"HOW DID THE NORSE EXPLORE SO FAR SO EARLY? IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY HAD ALIEN TECHONOLOGY?"
>mfw
one of my favorites has to be "WHY WAS GOLIATH (of david and goliath) SO BIG? WAS IT POSSIBLE THAT HE WAS AN ALIEN?"
>>509801
Except that's not what half-swording is for, and claymores wouldn't be used until the 15th century. Half-swording was used to execute more forceful and accurate thrusts, particularly against armored opponents.
>Axes
>Common
Kill yourself.
>>509801
>>509826
A lot of more tribal warriors, raiders and the such, couldn't necessarily afford swords but always owned an axe. Think around 800ad, Europe is just getting back in its feet.
And why do you think they needed to half sword for "accurate thrusts"? Hint, the Roman short swords didn't need to be held even with two hand for a precision thrust.
>>509834
>lol I post a meme picture instead of coming up with a rebuttal
/his/ is falling.
>>509840
Spear>axe though.
I think a Seax even took precedence over an axe in how common it was.
Roman sword is less than half the length of a medieval longsword though.
>>509807
I like WW2 shit so that's what I've watched mainly, and some non historical military documentaries. I got caught up in the WW2 documentaries they got and I'm a bit autistic about it.
WW2 in colour is the best unbiased historical run through of WW2 with a lot of great footage . Not really any first hand accounts of stuff though, it's mostly fact based, and doesn't go super into detail of most battles.
WW2 in HD is pretty shit information wise, it basically skips directly to 1941, focuses almost entirely on americans, and ignores overall strategy and goings on in the war, it just kind of follows a few people and their accounts.
Just started watching Apocalypse: the second world war. Seems to be a good mix of both with more graphic footage and a bit more dramatic tone.
The are a lot of general historical documentaries about non military stuff and older military stuff, but unfortunately those are the minority, and I haven't gone through it a whole lot yet. Far too much of it is WW2, something about jesus, something about the kennedy assanination, or the titanic or some shit.
>>509865
WW2 in HD had GOAT footage
>>509858
Spears were common, yes, but for whatever reason more so in the south than the north. You think a seax was common because Saxons were noted for carrying them, more likely this was a stereotype the contemporary British had for the barbaric, ruthless Saxons who were becoming ever common in the east, kind of like how we call black gangstas thugs for their stereotype that they carry guns.
An axe was common in north and eastern European peoples because it had many purposes, not just for fighting, so it would be expected that all men carry one at all times. It wasn't common because it was a useful fighting tool, but because it was useful for everything else and okay for fighting. A spearmen would easily clean up an axeman, of course.
>>509108
You wouldn't use armored fighting techniques against an unarmored opponent.
>>509000
Why the fuck would you try to stab while half-swording?
>>509066
3:33
simple and effective
but its so boring when you go all technical about it
I like me some mad stunts
>>508926
This actually looks more like history than any of the shit they have been playing. Hitting armored opponents with your hilt is a viable strategy.
Are they turning it around or something? Or do they still have all the shitty reality shows, and pawn shows?
>>508926
>>508953
>>509000
It's fucking stupid. Just because a technique exists doesn't make it anywhere near viable in real life situations.
I can already tell these one of these guys must be Wu Style Tai Chi Chuan's brother in law and shit up /asp/.
>>510210
How else are you gonna open up tin cans on the battlefield?
>>510286
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halberd
These were pretty much your anti-knight weapons for peasantry.
>>509909
>>510210
Half swording is a valid technique in tight quarters. Armored or not sometimes it benefits you to have a shorter blade with more precise control, which is what half-swording does.
Using the hilt as a mace is an anti-armor technique but can also be used as a nonlethal bludgeon that's more effective than just using the flat of the blade.
to be fair, history channel makes so much more sense when you are high as the moon.
I also watch it in a regional language
>>508988
haha holy shit this
>>508988
the logo on OP's webm tells me it's from Nat Geo in the first place
Remember when it was the Hitler Channel?
>>510701
>>509840
>romans
>Precision
Which requires precision:
Stabbing an unarmored gaul in the gut, or hitting a gap no wider than your weapon which moves constantly?
Stop commenting on shit you know nothing about.
>>511212
>Stabbing an unarmored gaul in the gut
>Stop commenting on shit you know nothing about.
The irony is strong in this post.
>>509879
Jesus fucking christ. Contemporary britain was FULL OF FUCKING SAXONS at the time. Wessex was fucking named for the weapon.
The sax wasn't a hood niggers gat, it was the mark of a free man, fucking everyone had one.
Fighting axes and working axes are completely fucking different, and nobody was bring wood axes to war, you'd bring a fucking spear.
You're pulling hsit out of your ass and spreaidng lies wiht no basis in relaity. Stop.
>kind of like how we call black gangstas thugs for their stereotype that they carry guns.
THAT IS NOT WHY THEY'RE CALLED THUGS YOU FUCKING MORON.
IS THERE A SINGLE TOPIC YOU DON'T JUST MAKE SHIT UP ON? ANYTHING AT ALL?
>>510015
Because that's the whole fucking point of halfsworidng. You half sword for tip work. You can't pierce voiders consistently otherwise. It's alo great in a bind.
>>508926
That is how swords work though
>>510715
What the fuck happened? Is it just that normies hate history and didn't watch the channel?
>>511224
Are you going to contend that most gauls wore armor, now?
They didn't. Rome, when not engaged in civil war, fttypically fought people with veyr poor armor-either few peopel had any, in the case of gauls and germanics, it had poor coverage, in the case of other italians, and some hellenes or it was textile and readily beaten, in the case of most hellenics.
And the retard clearly goes off of pop cultuer history, so i'm commenting on a subject he can easily picture.
It's simpler than explaining the mechanics behind two hands>one.
>>510210
>throws pommel
>>511245
Shhh. That knowledge will hurt his tiny, tiny mind.
>>511239
>Hellenes
>Poor armor coverage
>Linothorax is shitty armor
>Gallics.
>Didn't have a bigass shield nor wore a helmet at least
Sure is making shit up: the thread here I suppose.
>>509807
Vietnam in HD & last days in Vietnam
>>511239
>>511262
>linothroax is shitty armor
It's either textile or leather, both of which are meiocre agaist cutting blades.
>poor coverage
IT'S A FUCKING VEST. THE THIGHS AND ARMS ARE FULLY EXPOSED.
>Didn't have a bigass shield nor wore a helmet at least
Specifically noted as too small to defend them against javelins in numerous battles, from northern italy into britain, and shields can be forced aside, especially by other men with shields.
This is why men like having armor.
>>511264
>typical
>cataphract
Pick.
One.
You're talking about a tiny, tiny portion of all the men they fought-men part of one of the very few armies that were known to genuinely levy peasants and hand out spears to them.
Romans did not typically fight well armored men except for other Romans, and very small, elite bodies in armies that tended to have far more in the way of men with only moderate protection.
>>511282
>It's either textile or leather, both of which are meiocre agaist cutting blades.
Wow, are you imagining Linothorax as this thin-y sheet of leather/fabric that's easy to part? Ok bro.
>IT'S A FUCKING VEST. THE THIGHS AND ARMS ARE FULLY EXPOSED.
Yeaaah, except there's the pteryges and -since this is the diadochoi period- a form of cheires or arm braces.
Not to mention Successor-Era Greeks had all sorts of armor by this point in time. They had lamellar, plate cuirasses, and chainmail too given that like the Romans, Greeks fought with/alongside Celts.
Not to mention Romans did not have any leg protection at all.
>>510361
This. Especially the last bit.
Knights made a good amount of money on capturing other knights and ransoming them back to their lords and families.
Ringing their bell with the hilt of the sword or wrestling them were very useful for this.
>>511405
Please do not talk about things you actually have no clue about.
>>512012
Not him, but these "hurr ur so dumb and wrong" posts do nothing for anybody if you don't actually refute it.
>>509840
>the Roman short swords didn't need to be held even with two hand for a precision thrust.
First of all, guiding a blade in between the gaps of plate armour requires a lot more precision. But even if we ignore that, it should be perfectly fucking self-evident that the longer your sword gets the more difficult it would obviously be to accurately thrust. Not to mention that shortening your sword gives you greater leverage and makes it more stiff, less likely to flex, etc.
>>510210
>dozens of books written by dozens of different people across a number of centuries, with the aim of teaching people to fight for their lives
>meticulously reconstructed from numerous sources and confirmed to work as they say
>some random guy says it's bullshit, because....
>>509807
Smithsonian has some good ones too
>>510361
Knights are known to carry more than just swords. There are weapons that are much better for close quarters.
>>512719
>>511245
>>511253
Couch potato, 200 pound, wikipedia scholar idiots. Martial arts is the ONE place where books have less credit than observation and testing in sparring.
>dozens of books written by dozens of different people across a number of centuries, with the aim of teaching people to fight for their lives
Fuck them. I take their advice just like I take advice from a Tai Chi martial artist. Books matter less than in ring experience. Dead fucking serious.
Find me a half guard user winning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKKSI1OPGa4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVTr9GU7rsU
Too EZ. I hope none of you browse /asp/, don't bring your fairy tales over there, faggots.
>>510210
The style is clearly designed for fighting heavilly armored opponents noob.
>>512564
Fair enough.
The Mordhau or murder strike has its name for a reason, and that for sure is not to be less lethal.
The whole gallant knight in full armor in battle is bullshit. Full plate and longwords combo where used around the 100 years war, a time where the classic knight was in demise for a 100 years or so and mass armies took the field over. The Swiss for example had a standing order to kill all prisoners because the whole prisoner taking enterprise distorted their ranks. The then started to ransom out the bodies of nobles.
The techniques for harnischfechten are mostly for judical duels, the sword was chosen as a weapon because of it is significance as a symbol of justice amongst the Germanic culture, not because it was particularly effective against armor. Armor was worn when both participants where member of the noble stand.
Most harnischfechten sources with swords describe such judical combat. See Thalhofer or Ringeck for this.
There are techniques for battlefield use against armor, those usually have a dagger somewhere and are mostly about wrestling down your enemy and give him the coup de grasse with your dagger.
Sorry, but that romantic knights on battlefield 1v1 duel in shiny armor scenario got me triggered.
>>513508
The gladius might get stuck in the fucking rib cage, dumbass, armor or not they are trained to either stab high or low to get to the squishy bits easily.
Am I seriously the only knowledgeable guy ITT?
I have time on my hands to read and practice these things so you guys should practice to before you open your cavity filled mouths.
>>508926
someone lend them a pistol already that's shit is pretty embarassing
![tumblr_lu25fxi5iX1qeqil5o1_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rjILHeN.jpg "tumblr_lu25fxi5iX1qeqil5o1_1280[1].jpg")
>>509824
>look for popular tales
>pick up uncommon characters and call them aliens
>pick up common characters that do expectacular feats and say they were using alien technology
>provide no proof besides "what if..."
>get paid turbodollars enough for you to live banging hot chicks with your pumped up physique
>occupy more than half of history channel's grid
glad to see so many people are interested in history channel now
>>513499
>he uses battle of the nations as an example for anything.
Protip: It's a sport revolving around banging your skulls together until one of you falls over.
>>513499
Either this is very elaborate bait, or just stupid beyond belief.
>>508926
>You're in armour
>some unarmoured fag is in front of you
>not just disregarding his blows which do absolutely nothing and storm in
>>514268
Most people who train armored or battlefield swordsmanship rarely actually strap on the armor. Assuming your stances and techniques are right there should be little difference between wearing it and not wearing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3cpPRBlnwc
>>514299
Cool documentary.
The technique is called half-swording, and it's legit. It was used to make sword thrusts more precise by holding the blade. There are ways of doing it without hurting yourself but it's easier with calloused hands.
>>511302
> "Greeks fought with and alongside celts"
> Implying that your average everyday Athenian citizen would be bothered to to spend the ridiculous amount of money required to buy most of the armors you mentioned
> Memes, the post
To refute the last point, the Romans didn't require very much leg armor because they had fucking huge shields that covered their whole front to fight behind and a shit ton of friends who stood directly next to them
>>515123
athenians even used this type of woven light armor, basicaly just realy thickly woven cloth, was cheap and light and easy to manufacture
>>515153
So did the majority of people who fought in ancient conflicts. For the majority of people fighting in ancient armies (as in much of history) you just used what you could afford. The cost benefit of owning such equipment, especially if it's not even necessarily being used regularly, made it extremely rare to see stuff like full metallic cuirasses even among the most wealthy nobles.
>>513499
Lindybeige, please go.
>Religious documentary
>history channel
>ehhhhhhhhhh
>okay I'll give it another shot
>MARY MAGDALENE WAS JESUS'S WIFE AND THE TRUE ANCIENT ISRAELI'S BELIEVED IN THE AEONS, GOD ALSO HAD A WIFE
>turn off t.v.
Why do they also push Gnosticism so hard?
I met a person who was self-proclaimed Cathar and directed me to a History Channel documentary to try and convert me
>I went to a physiologist and they told me I had past lives
>I REMEMBER NOW! I was a Priest who took it up the bum in the woods, preaching the truth that the ebul catholics hid in the vatican archives!
>>514268
>Armour
The History Channel was neither History nor Channel
>>513832
And you, who uses a book of """"""theoretical""""""" """"""""tactics"""""". Might as well train yourself to increase your ki and do a kamehameha.
>>513994
You are a fucking idiot. It's sad you will never realize this.
>>515325
Another idiot.
>>515460
No one in the Hema community respects battle of nations, why don't you at least post Hema compts to make your point?
How is it that eastern martial arts are so well documented, while western martial arts are mostly lost to the ash heap of history?
>>508926
Thats perfectly accurate.
Hitting with the blunt part of a sword was a real technique against heavily a armored enemy.
Plus holding the sword by the blade is not painful if its done properly.
>>511231
They don't have any federal funding so they just do what makes money, and integrity is rarely profitable.
>>510210
Technique exists BECAUSE its viable in a scenario.
>>508926
look up half-swording.
>>515560
a few reasons. For one in japan there was a lot of cultural inertia between 1630 and 1860. Now contrary to popular belief Japanese marital arts changed quite a bit in this period, but alot got preserved because it was associated with the bushi and other social institutions like shinto shrines.
That said, alot of the sengoku era arts as well as the edo era are extinct and only survive in material preserved in their successors.
Also many arts were reworked into methods for education and combat sport when Japan opened back up.
IN Europe different swords went out of fashion, and once that happened the older material was usually forgotten, Things like boxing and wrestling had less rules in the past, but were transformed as time went by.
Second,
>>515560
martial arts are relatively less useful the more advanced your army is.
It didn't go away though, the west still has martial arts, but the main school is the bayonet.
>>515560
It almost happened in Japan with ancient Jujutsu. The grappling techniques armored warriors used to kill eachother.
Luckily Jigoro Kano was on the case and turned it into Judo but Martial Arts at the time were seen as regressive and bad for society.
>>515560
>while western martial arts are mostly lost to the ash heap of history?
Theres hundreds of manuals remaining tough. Unfortunately the only remaining living forms of western martial arts are sports fencing, boxing and several forms of folk wrestling and stick fighting. Portuguese Jogo do Pau might the the one closest to having an unbroken lineage.
>>515460
BotN is a joke, everyone laughs about you, no one takes you serious. Deal with it.
>>511263
Last Days in Vietnam is excellent.
>>515560
Fun Fact: "Medieva" Era Asian Martial Arts are as lost to time as western ones.
Most the current Asian martial arts are from the 1700's. This is evident in:
-Japanese martial arts stemming from the Edo peace, in which shitloads of samurai had nothing to do.
-Kendo losing its anti-armor moves.
-Chinese weirdo Kung Fu from the underground martial arts practices following the famous weapons ban of 1700's Qing.
-Also the fact that two-handed Chinese swordsmanship is lost to time as the Qing period Chinese preferred one handed swords as they were mostly cavalrymen and armor disappeared in the battlefield at the time.
The good thing however is that East Asians are bureacratic as fuck and wrote everything down. Including manuals on martial arts.
The methods of looking into older Asian Martial Arts are similar to HEMA's methods as we speak.
>>516301
kendo never really had armored techniques, it stems from unarmored kenjutsu. Though in general those styles that did survive with armored combat survived in the country side, relatively isolated from popular treads.
Kendo itself really didnt reach its modern form until the 20th century.
>>516301
>two-handed Chinese swordsmanship is lost to time
full of shit
>>515377
>Armour
>Favour
>Neighbour
>Colour
>Honour
>Labour
>>508926
Yeah they,re practising medival fighting tactics that look goofy. So what?
>>509824
I have only the german version of the History Channel (because well, iam german) and one time they had the following "documentary" running on tv:
>Something about Mayans, Aztecs and Incas
>Gold was very valueable because of Alien Gods
>Aliens vanish, People in America are unhappy
>they build all their awesome Pyramids for the only purpose to attract the alien overlords back to earth
>but wait, there's more: The tech to build those structures isn't Human!
>Did Aliens helped the Humans to build Structures to lure other Aliens back to earth?
>They were talking about two different races of aliens at that time in the documentary
>The spaniards came and wanted the Gold
>where the conquistadores also aliens?
Why? who lets people write shit like this? I mean, speculating is one thing, but creating a whole scientoligy-like theory about ancient wonders is rather hilarious. Erich von Däniken would be proud lol.
>>510715
>>511231
Nothing is wrong with this haggling shit on tv, but tv channels (atleast here in germany) finance themselves in two ways: A SHITTON of commercials and sometimes they're exclusive to some kind of special cabel company, but most channels here are viewable without paying extra. Shit like Hitler or Aliens or fat hagglers attract more views, so more people watch commercials which means more money. Sure, documentaries about well, real events are nice, but lets face it: Germany has about 80million citizins, 40million are between ~ 18-50 the rest is below or above that. From those 40million, about 20million enjoy tv shows that are informative about something, but not all of those are interested in History or science or what ever. So you have a tiny number of individuals who would love to see shows like early History Channel played. The rest likes Haggling or is so old that the threw their money at the screen on some kind of teleshopping bullshit.
>>509066
´Seize me.´
>>509769
Were two-sided axes ever actually used? It just seems so impractical to have the head of your weapon twice larger and heavier for no particular reason.
>>508994
WE
WUZ
FUHRERS
N
SHIT
>>509824
This. Some time i`ll tune into some shit without checking what program it is, i`ll keep watching it because it has interesting shit then all of a sudden some dude starts talking about aliens and i realize it's ancient aliens. Happened to me 5 times now.
>>508988
>dangerous jobs
Like shoveling shit?
>>513511
Adding to what you said, in actuality a battle was between hundreds to thousands of people, when you see a few twenty or so people fighting on screen it does a real injustice to the actuality of combat. If you committed to fighting a single person out of formation without your allies by your side, the enemy would beset upon you from all sides and either wrestle you to the ground and kill you or strike a weak point while you were distracted. The exception to this would be the rout.
>>513511
>The techniques for harnischfechten are mostly for judical duels
It depends on what you mean by "techniques".
A lot of the armoured fencing content you see in Talhoffer focusses on judicial combat, however one of the earliest depictions of the typical half-sword stance in use against armour is from around 1410; depicting the King of France doing it during the Battle of Poitiers.
If you found yourself armed with a longsword, facing men in armour, then you'd likely attempt to make use of armoured fencing techniques, i.e. thrust the sword into gaps of the armour. However, a longsword obviously wouldn't be your first choice. And in most judicial duel depictions a sword is not used alone either. They used three knightly weapons: spear, longsword and dagger.
And this is also described in a later (Early Modern) poem by the Meistersinger Hans Sachs on the origin of Martial Arts.
[...]
Dergleich vor kurtzer zeyt noch meer
War noch der rbauch beym teutschen adel,
Wo einer fand am andern dadel,
So erfordert er in zum kempffen,
Da einer thet den andern dempffen,
Ghrüst zu roß inn feld oder schrancken.
Wer lag, der lag, an (on) alles zancken.
Zu fuß man auch der zeyt noch kempffet.
Gerüst eyner den andren dempffet
Inn drey wehren, schwerd, dolch und spieß,
Wo einer auff den andern stieß,
Verwundet oder gar umb-bracht.
>Inn drey wehren, schwerd, dolch und spieß
As always, /his/ shows they know nothing of actual combat.
>>516597
M8 the two hander styles are revivals based on Swordsmanship Manuals from the early 1600's and its appreciation only reemerged in the 70's in Taiwan and the 2000's in Mainland China.
Its similar to HEMA m9
>>513651
Is that a bird wing sticking out of his hair?
the history channel is now a /his/ meme. anyone have any history channel stories?
>>517548
Debate me.
>>517548
Why do people insist on making posts like these
You contribute NOTHING to the conversation
At least present an argument for fucks sake
>>517526
>A lot of the armoured fencing content you see in Talhoffer focusses on judicial combat, however one of the earliest depictions of the typical half-sword stance in use against armour is from around 1410; depicting the King of France doing it during the Battle of Poitiers.
Thats really interesting, thanks for this! At least I wasn't off with the 100 years war. Still, likely an artistic dramatization, if you are King and need to take refuge to halfswording, something went very wrong in the first place.
>>517526
>They used three knightly weapons: spear, longsword and dagger.
Those are the classics, but the weapons for judical duels where set in the Gerichtskampfordnung of the respective town or area, and they differ from place to place and time. Judical duels originate in the pre Christian Germanic tradition, and the sword was always the symbol of justice, spear and dagger where later additions.
>>517526
>Wo einer fand am andern dadel,
>So erfordert er in zum kempffen,
>Da einer thet den andern dempffen,
>Ghrüst zu roß inn feld oder schrancken.
I would need the full context, but these rows rather indicate a challenge duel between nobles rather than a set judical duel ordered by court. Not saying that spear, sword and dagger where not the knightly trinity at the time,
>>517526
>It depends on what you mean by "techniques".
I was mostly referring to Pseudo von Danzig and Ringeck, both likely wrote about combat and judical duel as well, and the later Thalhofer who was judical duel mostly.
>>517554
>Its similar to HEMA m9
Except that you guys neither spar nor test. And as long as you don't verify techniques in a non cooperative setting, it is hardly more than folk dance with swords.
You can see that on the guy on the left, awful footwork, he just asks to be rushed.
>>517548
That's because only a few of us came over from /k/.
Things like HEMA are a completely separate branch of historical learning and it is very rarely covered in books unless said book is specifically about it. Some books I've read go in detail about the methods used to produce the weapons and armor, or might make note of a technique that made a group stand out, but never have I seen say a book on warfare in Japan before the Mongolian invasion discuss Japanese horse archery technique.
>>518020
>He doesnt read the filename
It's Wushu m8. Its the bit of Chinese martial arts that's more into fitness that weapons combat.
>>518027
>Things like HEMA are a completely separate branch of historical learning and it is very rarely covered in books unless said book is specifically about it.
Try http://www.pragmatische-schriftlichkeit.de/
A pragmatic manuscript is anything not ecclesiastical, those folks find, transcribe and do initial research on every bit of paper from the medieval (and early modern) that is not church related.
Many German HEMA manuals where discovered via them, but theres everything included from alchemy to book-keeping, often in the same manuscript.
>>518033
>It's Wushu m8. Its the bit of Chinese martial arts that's more into fitness that weapons combat.
Sorry, wasn't aware of that. Lifelong fencer here, can't help it, but I get triggered easily by bad footwork.
>>518069
>those folks find, transcribe and do initial research on every bit of paper from the medieval (and early modern) that is not church related
There needs to be more of this.
>>509108
>John Clement (the guy in red) is a quack
I'd be careful with phrases like that, it could land you in hot water with lawsuits.
decent, honest quacks wouldnt want to be associated with Clements.
>>518089
/k/ is high to low tier. A year ago it had several competent people but would also have the idiots who thought vikings were great warriors, and the katana wasn't useless for most of its lifetime.
Warband threads on /vg/ is where I think most people went, and now several are coming to /his/
>>515460
>theoretical tactics
>manuals specifically made to teach people to fight, written by people who we know were actually soldiers and sword masters
>BotN
>A 21st century game that could just as easily be played with biker gear and crowbars for all its relevance to history
>>518106
exactly how was the Katana useless?
>>518013
>if you are King and need to take refuge to halfswording, something went very wrong in the first place.
Of course. The King was captured during that battle after all. The point is: things may go wrong in battle and if you find yourself facing an armoured opponent with a sword, then it doesn't seem too far fetched to use it like a short spear rather than an edged weapon, simply because edged weapons aren't all that effective against armour.
>Judical duels originate in the pre Christian Germanic tradition, and the sword was always the symbol of justice, spear and dagger where later additions.
I'm not too certain about that. You have descriptions of Holmgang type rituals which also made use of spears. I'd be surprised if swords were more common than spears in this context.
>these rows rather indicate a challenge duel between nobles rather than a set judical duel ordered by court. Not saying that spear, sword and dagger where not the knightly trinity at the time
Given the fact that he says
>Ghrüst zu roß inn feld oder schrancken.
"schrancken" in this context means a ring, i.e. some sort of regulated duel, which I'd say definitely refers to a judicial combat. And there's also the issue that he specifically refers to the three weapons you see depicted in judicial trials all the time in Talhoffer, Mair, etc. - of course you also see Pollaxes, but in my experience spear, sword and dagger are much more commonly depicted within the judicial combat context.
>>519057
The Katana is the only weapon to somehow be under- and overhyped at the same time.
>>513635
Halfswording was a thing they do nothing wrong.
>>519113
i know but it still looks very silly if done in real life and not just in ancient frames
>>519096
its over hyped by the media and general ignorance of metalworking, its under hyped by people trying to overcompensate for this
>>519057
I guess I should correct myself and say it was useless during most of the time period in which it is most remembered where the forging of katanas went for the more decorative style, and focused on bringing out the hamon. This is when the katana became largely a display item more than a carried weapon.
>>519096
It's difficult to not underhype it when in the whole of Japanese warfare its major period of purpose is completely forgotten by common people of today to make way for the remembrance of a period in which it was a stupid fashion item that wasn't even forged for battle purpose.
>>519287
even during the edo period, there were many smiths producing practical blades, and the edo period produced some excellent fencers, its just that these people were exceptions rather than the rule, nearly ten percent of the population was ennobled as "samurai" and society could not support that number of warriors during peace time.
However the connection between samurai and the sword goes back further than the edo era, even during the sengoku era, fights between spearmen were refereed to as tachi uchi, or clashing swords, The sword was the weapon of a noble, as opposed to the utilitarian spear. and most sengoku era martial arts started students with the sword before moving onto battlefield weapons like the yari and naginata.
>>509824
The absolute definition of bull shit I saw was a special on history channel claiming Einstein had knowledge channeled into his brain by 7th dimensional aliens.
wAT.
>>519119
How does it look silly? You simply grab the sword by the blade in order to accurately thrust it into weak spots of your opponent's armour. I don't see how it's any different from using a spear in terms of technique.
>>519327
>its just that these people were exceptions rather than the rule
This is part of my point. You're right that there were smiths still producing practical blades but these were heavily outnumbered by smiths who took instead to decorative aspects of the weapon rather than practicality. I'll admit many people like me are harsh on the katana out of hatred for the culture of today that worships it so I stepped over a line in calling it useless.
>>519350
Because of the "swords were razor sharp and could slice a man in two" rubbish fed to us by every historical film and novel?
>>519455
Is that actually a thing though? Usually, western swords are depicted by Hollywood as crude, blunt objects meant to bludgeon people to death.
It's more that people themselves overestimate the sharpness of swords, not necessarily the media. It should be self-evident though that a weapon that is meant to be somewhat robust cannot be all too sharp, since otherwise it would be too frail to be actually used.
>>519557
Swords in media tend to be portrayed as able to cleave limbs of in one weak swing. They also get the portrayal of being able to stab cleanly through someone, and be pulled out easily particularly in the ribs.
I've yet to see a movie or tv show where someones sword gets lodged in someones ribs.
>>519455
You can easily half sword a sharpened blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo
>>509824
I like how when White people do something amazing it's always because they had extraterrestrial help.
They never do this shit with the oogabooga kingdoms in Subsaharan Africa.
>>519557
Can't say I've ever actually seen a Hollywood production where swords are shown as blunt, bludgeons.
Seen plenty of heads sliced clean off in one swing and stuff like this gif from Ironclad though.
>>519852
You will note that there are three guys attacking him, he cuts the first guy in half, cuts the arm off the second one and presumably fatally slashes the thirds face.
>>515583
It's even gotten the Discovery Channel now.
[spoiler]Goodnight, sweet prince. ;_;[/spoiler]
>>513499
Because they're fighting with blunted weapons and not actually trying to kill each other. That's like saying eye-gouges aren't viable combat techniques because nobody uses them in MMA.
>IMCF Fighting Runles
>3. Prohobited Fighting Techniques in Melee
>3.1 Thrusting is forbidden and grounds for immediate sanction
>3.1.9 Twisting against the natural direction of a joint and/or painful holds
for the interested:
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
>>519852
you just can't stop the purfoy, bruv
>>518027
This isn't just about HEMA. It's things like "Why wouldn't you just use your halberd?" like it's Skyrim or something. Your halberd might be all the way back at camp on a cart.
>>519861
How long is that guy's sword?!
>>510715
I'd take hitler/ nazi channel again over what they have now.
>WHAT IF HITLER WAS AN ALIEN CARRYING OUT THEIR MASTER PLAN? DUNDUNDUNNN
>>520823
History Channel: That's the best we can do
I miss the Hitler Channel
Is NatGeo a good channel for playing on background?
I've seen a few of It's documentaries and I always thought they exaggerated everything.
>X happens
>Suddenly civilization collapses.
>>508988
Its the same desu on nat geo I don't have history channel but whenever I put on nat geo or discovery its always literal golddiggers, pawn stars or survavilists like bear grylls .
>>513499
>dude taking the polearm in the head repeatedly and not yielding
>more and more and more blows
Seriously I wonder
>watching history channel over Christmas
>for once see an interesting looking program
>has to do with 14th century Native American settlements
>suddenly they bring out this crazy-haired wacko who starts talking about how the Americas were originally discovered by some legendary Crusader Knight who buried his lost treasure in Nova Scotia
I think that perfectly sums up how the History Chanel does things now.
>>519631
Dude I remember an episode of GoT where Jon Snu thrusts a sword through a guys skull then pulls it out without much effort.
>>520759
Fucking huge
The medieval weapon he uses in Ironclad is pretty big too.
>>519073
>"schrancken" in this context means a ring, i.e. some sort of regulated duel, which I'd say definitely refers to a judicial combat.
No, it means a tournament place for jousting.
>in armor on the horse, in the field or between 'bars'
>>509807
Just search Ken Burns. All of his docs are comfy as fuck and there's like 6-7 of them and they all have 7-8 episodes apiece.
>>519350
it just looks silly for someone to have a weapon and not using the part meant for killing to attack.
just like people using musket butts to break the enemy faces instead of the bayonet - it works and soldiers did it way too often; specially untrained units - but it still looks strange when you hit your opponent with the wooden back of your weapon when you have a shinny steel attachment made for that exact purpose
>>517102
No and you stated the reason, I think some woodcutting axes had two sides.
>>509865
>ww2 in color is the best
Uh, no, that's The World at War. Sorry. They fucking interview Karl Doenitz, Albert Speer, Gen. Doolittle, Curtis LeMay, and others, while covering literally every single campaign of the war.
>>520823
What if Jews were aliens and Hitler is Earth's greatest hero?
t. Ernst Zündel
>>522057
Did they find out if anyone ever heiled Dönitz?
>>508953
I first read that quickly as "From what I know of Mortal Kombat, that looks accurate."
Had been much funnier desu senpai.
>>510210
/asp/ is cancer now
>>520651
I got my eye poked in last night at wrestling and it didn't seem to slow me down. They're not miracle techniques like most Krav Maga LARP faggots seem to think.
>>511231
What is it with normies loving to mix lolilluminati/ayy lmaos/magic satanic cults with history?
>>521401
That fucking series and other medieval shit camouflage me from the medieval truth of fighting and warfare
>>521872
Except that's the exact opposite case here.
You have a shiney steel part made for the exact purpose as a bayonet: the point.
Why not use that as effectively as possible?
>>522516
Because history is boring to them
Watch Military History Channel
>>508926
wtf.... why didn't he just loosen the pummel and throw at him?
>>508926
wtf... why didn't he just shoot him?
Anyone else looking forward to their War & Peace miniseries?
>>519821
Maybe it's because they never did amazing things
>>508945
this seems like an uncompetetive ruleset.
>no grabbing
>fights end when somebody gets near you with a sword because swords are lightsabers xD
>>522653
Bayonett has a worse recovery than the butt. If you stab something like the leg with a beyonette, they can grab they gun and fuck around for a bit while being alive.
>>517102
In Bulgaria there are examples of two-sided axes dating back to the Late Bronze Age (pic related, from Chernykh's Mining and metallurgy in Ancient Bulgaria, 1978). My lector's opinion is they were made especially for cracking skulls. Just as you said, I think it would have been impractical. Similar axes are found in the Early Iron Age, too, though their two sides may have different function (an axe and an adze).
>>523112
There's also this hoard from Kalugerovo, LBA, consisting of 7 bronze axes, interpreted as ritual tools, for their shaft holes are only 5 mm wide.
>>523147
If you're doing this technique with bear hands, then it was a pretty big problem.
Even with armor, there is evidence to suggest that people cut their hands using this technique, some even lost fingers. Supposedly, however, the soldiers did this because they did not feel like killing the enemy. They felt like being a little 'nicer' to the other army, in all seriousness.
>>523164
Lel.
>>523049
Thats just training.
A competitive fight looks more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfojRPDZ7nI
>>523147
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo
>like this
>>522287
Only the once, so he could say he'd had one.
>>523164
I'm calling your post utter bullshit.
>>523147
Gloves and a tight grip.
>>523147
Because you would likely be wearing gloves, swords are not comically sharp, and if the sword is violently sliding out of your hands you need to stop masturbating with Onatsuyu before battle.
>>522516
>implying they freemasons weren't behind this
>>521870
>MFW watching Prohibition
That was a good ass show. Prohibition seems so insane to us now, it was interesting to see how that movement came about.
Also, points for not going preachy and equating it to the legalize marijuana movement today.
>>526139
>Prohibition seems so insane to us now,
Tell that to the War on Drugs fellows.
>>519852
that fucking movie tho...
>>519852
Reminds me of Lindybeige
>>519852
Dude really had a chip on his shoulder.
>>522596
to be fair, the source material isn't any better. GRRM has people cutting through plate among other things
season 1 got actually had half decent choreography. They must have changed the dude doing it between seasons
>>526369
>cutting through plate
With fucking what, lasers n shit? Those books and that sow are low-tier War of the Roses/HRE fanfic anyway.
>>526225
>>526273
Ironclad is a fun action romp with lots of gore and fighting, James Purefoy hacking up vikings with a giant sword and Brian Cox losing a fight with a castle wall. It doesnt pretend to be anything else. I don't get why everyone apparently has a massive problem with it.
>>526383
This being the same setting that features zombies, dragons and magic swords. Just sit back, enjoy and everytime you see something that offends you, just assume a wizard did it.
>>523164
Wrong.
>>514299
They do when their going to war you half wit.
>Assuming your stances and techniques are right there should be little difference between wearing it and not wearing it.
What? Why would the armored knight need to use a half sword technique against an unarmored opponent? He could use the full range of his sword, gaining a reach advantage, and cut the peasant down by hitting him virtually anywhere.
>>523147
You would be wearing plate or mail gauntlets, it's not directly against your hands or yes it would just slice the fuck out of you. Swords were sharp for this reason, to keep your opponents from simply grabbing them even in swords which had very little to no cutting power.
On another note this technique was not used to improve accuracy you proles. The idea is to jam the sword into any gap in the armor, force it in, and then use it as a lever to knock down your opponent or muscle him around to get the blade in deeper. By holding the sword like that you sacrifice range for power and control.
> It should be self-evident though that a weapon that is meant to be somewhat robust cannot be all too sharp, since otherwise it would be too frail to be actually used
It can be very sharp, harder more brittle steel will HOLD and edge better but you can still sharpen softer steel to very sharp edges.
>>528029
maybe because the clip was a demonstration?
>>519821
It has happend countless times with aztecs/mayans/khmers and egyptians, or do you count those as white?
There might be a "libertarian" revisionism and selfflagellation is widespread among those people but I dont think history channel wants to appeal to those.
>>511231
change in owners probably, just like Konami has all its big fuck ups when they change CEO
>>517102
There are a few in exhibits in Turkey, a couple of animu level huge ones clearly to show off, but most were relativelysmall. I'd guess the double blade was to turn it when you lost the edge in one side.
>>518106
>and the katana wasn't useless for most of its lifetime.
I like the katana because it feels like the absolute underdog. Inferior material, design and very limited techniques for lack of exposure to other cultures. You'd really have to work it out to make it useful.
>>522384
Did you ever get both eyes completely pushed to the skull while you were trying to get up from the ground?
>>515369
WAS JESUS A BUDDHIST MONK?
>>526383
they hve supper dragon steel folded a few times
>>528423
Those comments are as bad as the katana best weapon ones. Japanese kenjutsu was well respected throughout east Asia. including among Europeans in the area
http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/05/07/european-vs-japanese-swordsmen-historical-encounters-in-the-16th-19th-centuries/
>>522384
you might be fucking retarded, son.
Reminder that most western swords were designed to kill using the pointy stabby end, not the long ass and rather dull blade.
>cause opponent to fall
>crush his face
is better than
>try to slice through armor
>>528106
>The idea is to jam the sword into any gap in the armor, force it in, and then use it as a lever to knock down your opponent or muscle him around to get the blade in deeper.
<citation needed>
>not to improve accuracy
>it's for more control
Isn't that the same thing?
>>529193
>everyone wore plate armour
>>508988
>once in a blue moon there's something on ww2
wasn't damn near every show about Nostradamus, nazis, hitler, and WW2 just a few years ago?
>>529405
I miss that show where they would demonstrate ancient battles using Rome Total War.
>>521872
Using the butt is a perfectly viable technique and saying it was due to untraindness is ignorant.
>>529800
How is it not
>>529870
Accuracy - precision or exactness
Control - to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command
You are not more precise or exact half handing than you would be otherwise but you do have greater control over the weapon, you can move it in ways and use tactics which are not possible otherwise.
>>530111
And one leads directly into the other. More control leads to a more precise shot.
>>508926
This is not originally history channel, its an old documentary called Medieval Fightbook, the guy in the red John Clement is generally considered the best medieval martial artist in the world.
Also the guy in the knights suit gets a concussion lol.
>>530407
Not necessarily, and their still not the same thing despite your assertion that one leads to another.
Just stop.
>>515240
>be wealthy noble
>cheap out on armour
That sounds dumb
>half swording
I didn't know that involved swinging the sword around by the tip and hitting the other guy with the pommel. It seems like you'd lose control of you sword pretty quickly like that.
Did they actually do all the swinging and shit?
>>530565
>John Clement is generally considered the best medieval martial artist in the world.
No.
>>530700
Halfswording means to grip the sword on the handle and at the middle of the blade, This seems to have been pretty 'common'. in the sense that there are many historical techniques described in several manuals. You still wouldn't do it against unarmored opponents, or at least only use it as a dirty special surprise trick, like closing in into a bind, half grip, stab to the neck.
Mordhau is the technique where you reverse the blade. This is one single technique, which is also described in several manuals, but in my opinion this is more of a last ditch effort when you have no other chances to inflict damage. You can do a lot of damage, but you are also very vulnerable.
>>530565
>John Clement is generally considered the best medieval martial artist in the world.
John Clements thinks that, pretty much everybody else thinks he is an idiot.
>>529193
Reminder that you are wrong and repeating stupid memes.
>>529809
never said that - just said that most untrained soldiers would use their muskets/rifles as clubs to hit their enemies much more often than they used the bayonets because they were not trained enough to know how to properly hit using bayonets.
>>523057
OK, but a sword point has a better recovery than a sword edge.
So again, it's all the important parts of the sword right there.
