http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/Little-known-tale-of-generous-Turkish-aid-to-the-Irish-during-the-Great-Hunger.html
>The often told story of how Turkey was one of the only countries to come to the aid of Ireland during the Great Hunger will be the focus of a new movie, “Famine.”
>At a time when Ireland was enduring the terrible loss of a million dead and the mass exodus of a million more during the Great Hunger the story goes that the Ottoman Sultan, Khaleefah Abdul-Majid I, declared his intention to send £10,000 to aid Ireland's farmers. However, Queen Victoria intervened and requested that the Sultan send only £1,000, because she had sent only £2,000 herself.
>So the Sultan sent only the £1,000, but he also secretly sent five ships full of food. The English courts attempted to block the ships, but the food arrived in Drogheda harbor and was left there by Ottoman sailors. That £10,000 that the Sultan pledged to the Irish would be worth approximately £800,000 ($1.7m) today.
Thoughts on this?
>>50591
Interesting stuff. Do you think there was a reason other than humanitarianism for it?
>>50658
Many foreign people worked at Topkapi Palace. One of the physicians there was Irish. That could've been the reason, who knows
But if it was, it wouldn't be strong enough considering the empire itself was undergoing a terrible economic crisis
>>50591
And what did this guy do? Killed a shitload of his citizens by impalement and immolation and somehow became a national hero because of it.
>>50658
Dick waving in front of the British could be a factor, as with any other humanitarian aid thing.
The Irish Famine also was really unique because of it's ongoing nature, being peacetime, and being in the middle of Europe, and the time it happened, it was the first real Mass Media Humanitarian disaster.
>>51490
It's probably dick waving since:
>However, Queen Victoria intervened and requested that the Sultan send only £1,000, because she had sent only £2,000 herself.
>>51638
>£1,000
Is that a lot back then?
>>51716
>So the Sultan sent only the £1,000, but he also secretly sent five ships full of food. The English courts attempted to block the ships, but the food arrived in Drogheda harbor and was left there by Ottoman sailors. That £10,000 that the Sultan pledged to the Irish would be worth approximately £800,000 ($1.7m) today.
>>51716
170.000£.
Holy shit Victoria was such an asshole.
>>51904
Was this ever in question?
>>50591
>dat synopsis
True anecdote I learned recently
Britsh ambassador says to Turkish counterpart: "Why don't you just come up with a Scottish solution to the Kurdish problem"
Turkish guy says: "The Kurds aren't Scottish, they're Irish."
>>52627
What is that supposed to mean? The Kurds are the original people of Mesopotamia, the should be given all of Iraq and Eastern Turkey.
>>52685
>The Kurds are the original people of Mesopotamia
How could they be if they are an Iranian speaking (meaning Indo-European) people?
>>52627
Yeah, I don't get it. Explain pls.
>>52891
They are rebellious and kill people.
>>52685
What the fuck no they weren't. Kurds aren't the Mesopotamians, Assyrians, Persians, Armenians that have lived there for thousands of years, Kurds were nomadic people who mainly lived along the Zagros mountain range and then moved into Armenian, Assyrian etc land. They should not be given clay that was historically not theirs to begin with.
>>52951
Yeah, I got that part, whats a Scottish solution?
>>52293
its a thread about a historical event, you don't have to shoehorn an inference about a modern political issue into it.
>>52971
Political devolution of powers.
>>52969
So then why the fuck should the Turks remain in Anatolia? Send them back to Mongolia.
>>50591
white fuccbois no empathy
PoC have historically been kinder to underpriveleged nations
>>52881
>>52969
The Kurdish empire has destroyed all other minority groups in the area, everywhere you look is remnants of the Kurdish empire. They are the cradle of civilisation. There are no other living ancient ethnic groups in Iraq. Biji Kurdistan. Kurdish btw comes from Akkadian not Iranian whatever that is.
>>50591
>The English courts attempted to block the ships
Fucking anglos are a cancer, I can't wait until they die out.
>>53037
>The Kurdish empire
What? which Kurdish empire? There wasn't any Kurdish empire, are you Kurd?
muh gorta shoah
>>53038
/pol/ please go.
>>53024
Right of conquest, Turks fought and earned the land and no one could contest them out of it.
>>53101
Look at my picture for more information
>>53101
So what if I'm Kurd, at least I know my own history.
>>52685
>are the original people of Mesopotamia
The original people of Mesopotamia are the Iraqis, people don't just vanish.
>>53282
>What is the Median Empire
>What is the Parthian Empire
The Choctaw also raised $170 in aid back in 1847 (bear in mind the Trail of Tears was 1831), which would be worth somewhere in the tens of thousands today. We still commemorate the act on a relatively regular basis. One of our presidents was made an honorary chief and this sculpture was recently commissioned in memory. Sound bunch of lads desu
>>53355
That's right, Iraq is rightfully ours, all other empires have ceased to exist.
>>52969
>not theirs to begin with
They are descended from Hurians son
>>52685
Bullshit, Kurds should be given the land they now inhabit.
"muh historical clay" is the stupidest argument, nobody gives a fuck if your great great great great great great great great great x10 grandpa lived in babylon, that's a mainly arabic, sunni area now. I fully support the Kurdish people's right to self-detemination, but they should be based on habitation, you've got a 1800's era 12 year old's understanding of social geography.
>>53422
So you're saying just because they were squatting the land that they should be given the land? so it's okay for every minority who lives in Europe or the US to suddenly get independence because they live there? They're only in those lands because they're permitted to be and aren't exiled or executed, they don't need to suddenly be given land to.
ITT: t*rks trolling t*rks
Eat a dick alllahu Akbar
>>53475
I'm saying that the large regions that are, by majority, one nationality, religion, ethic group, etc. which is what the majority of current Kurdish regions are, should be given the right to at least autonomy within the region, and at best self-government and sovreignity, as current regimes in the area wage constant social, economic, & literal warfare against them.
>>53496
You're either retarded or a shitty false-flag attempt.
>>52293
Yeah, sure.
>>53355
What the fuck. The Median connection with the Kurds is pure speculation (an in any case, the medians where an iranian speaking people, thus not native of Mesopotamia), and the Parthians (arsacids) where Dahae from Easter Iran, nowhere near current Kurdistan.
>>53397
Nice revisionism son. The Kurds are Iranians from the Zagros mountains, hurrians my balls
>>53577
And the Kurds did nothing wrong. No massacres or genocides on the natives like the Turks lead you to believe. When I say natives, I mean neighbours though, we are the natives of Iraq, once again.
>>53577
>kurdish population goes from 500,000 in WWI to 36 million in 100 years and now deserve autonomy simply because they bred like rats
this is ridiculous. They don't deserve land or autonomy just because their population grew ridiculously. North Iraqi Kurdistan exists already, it's enough..
>>53632
Are you serious? Kurds literally carried out all of the Assyrian genocide and killed most of the Armenian people.
>>53475
If they've lived there for over 1000 years, they are entitled to it.
>>53626
Medians were North-Western Iranians, they are the ancestors of Kurds
Parthians while being from Central Asia adopted the North-Western Iranian language which is the predecessor of the present-day Kurdish languages and their Empire was culturally North-Western Iranian (i.e. Kurdish)
>>53659
NO! It must grow! The Yazidis living are ethnic Kurds, the Arabs, Turkmen, Assyrians and Arameans who supposedly live there are all extinct or make up a small minority.
>>53719
NO PROOF, don't you think the UN would have acted now if that was true?
>>53738
That's right, no one else has lived there for that long :)
>>53738
no they did not, they took over the newly vacant land after they massacred Assyrians and Armenians
>>53773
Once again, that's just propaganda, Kurds currently look after these minority refugees in Kurdistan and they have positions in the government. They should be happy we let them in at all, maybe they should just kick them out for being ungrateful.
>>53854
That's not true, amnesty international is even pointing out that the Kurds are committing atrocities to other ethnic groups of the area, forcing them out of homes, demolishing their homes etc.
>>53773
They've been there since the Sassanids drove them there. Thats easily over a millenium.
The massacres were carried out by Kurds long after they settled there and at the behest of the Young Turks. Its like blaming the Holocaust on ALL Germans.
>>53566
That's Arabic, you fuckhead. As different from Turkish as Occitan from French.
Also, Allah is translated. It just means "god".
thats not little known unless youre in fucking kindergarden
goddamn, not only is /his/ full of reddit fags it's also pleb as fuck
>>54008
Kurds are always up for a genocide. they're so genocidal its crazy
>>53747
>Medians were North-Western Iranians, they are the ancestors of Kurds
Since the Median never self-identified as Kurds, that means jack shit. And still that doesn't make the Kurds the original inhabitants of Mesopotamia.
>Parthians while being from Central Asia adopted the North-Western Iranian language which is the predecessor of the present-day Kurdish languages and their Empire was culturally North-Western Iranian (i.e. Kurdish)
"i.e. Kurdish" my ass, the Parthians where Hellenized Iranians, they where not kurds because they never self identified as such. The word "Kurd" first appears in arabic chronicles after the muslim conquest.
Fuck off with "muh clay" revisionism. I support the kurd struggle for autonomy and the fight against ISIS, but that "whe are the oldest of the oldest!" bullshit is completely unnecesary and false.
>>54066
>Hellenized Iranians
Like fuck they were. You're thinking Pontics. The Parthians were basically a steppe tribe settled in Persian land.
>>54066
I'm another poster... not the guy who claims Kurds are the oldest (and he's obviously a Turkish false flagger btw)
The ethnonym is irrelevant, they were North-Western Iranian peoples, both genetic and cultural ancestors of the Kurds which makes them Kurdish
>>54120
>>The world thinks Kurds are the only people living in northern Iraq so they can say whatever they want.
this. They're spreading such bullshit it's amazing how anyone even buys it.
>>54212
of course he is
he's obviously trolling
>>54066
45 Assyrian Villages Massacred by Kurdish forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simele_massacre
YPG kill leaders of the independent Khabour guards Assyrian milita, milita dissolves due to lack of leadership
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=256_1431537234&comments=1
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/3o9mfz/questions_to_kurds_from_a_prokurdish_american/cvyjlge
I love this quote from a Kurd
>The problem that Assyrians have is that Assyrians 1) don't breed like rabits so you have a demographical problem and 2) support Arabs too much.
>>54178
>The ethnonym is irrelevant, they were North-Western Iranian peoples, both genetic and cultural ancestors of the Kurds which makes them Kurdish
It doens't make them Kurdish at all, and ethnonyms are very important, since ethnic groups are first and foremost self-identifying groupings.
Calling the Medians or the Parthians "Kurdish" is completely irresponsible, akin to calling the Gauls from Caesar's time "French". Its useless, other than for "muh imagined ancestors" masturbation and revisionism.
>>54347
Also if you die, you don't have the rights to your land anymore. It's Kurdistan time baby.
>>54380
lol fuck off
Gauls were Celtic speakers
meanwhile the Medians and Parthians were North-Western Iranians just like the Kurds are now
they are their cultural and genetic ancestors
ethnonyms and identities evolve, greeks called themselves Romans just like 150 years ago, are you going to tell me they weren't Greek? Turks didn't call themselves Turks a century years ago, are you going to say that the Turkish speaking Muslims of the Ottoman Empire weren't Turks?
>>54576
And Kurds should keep their portion of of Iraq because it's not like there's any other minority groups there who claim it as their ancestral homeland. It's not like there's hundreds of thousands of angry people living in Iraq who lost their land to these inbred Kurds.
>>54734
I don't see how that has anything to do with my post
>>54576
>Turks didn't call themselves Turks a century years ago
yes they did. Ottoman empire was always called Turkey through history too btw.
>>54779
>Spelling and grammar fix
Well by considering Medians Kurds invaded Iran and Iraq, you sort of make it sound like it gives them the right to own that land and that everyone else living there has vanished. As if having ANY sort of ancient history there means it's your land. Unless of course you're just debating ethnonyms, in which case it is irrelevant.
>>54865
I'm just arguing about Medians and Parthians being the ancestors of the Kurds without any land claims...
>>54873
no they didn't...
>was always called Turkey through history too btw
yes, but only by the foreigners, Osmanlis never called it Turkey
>>54929
Is there an old ottoman map you can show me writing that?
>>54576
>Gauls were Celtic speakers
Yet genetically they are the ancestors of modern day french people, and they're language had an impact in french and other languages from the area
>meanwhile the Medians and Parthians were North-Western Iranians just like the Kurds are now
The median connection is already flimsy as fuck, the Kurds could come out of another Iranian group, and once again, the Parthians where Eastern Iranian, and the lingua franca of the administration were both Aramaic and Greek, not any proto-kurdish.
>they are their cultural and genetic ancestors
Just as the Gauls are the genetic and cultural ancestors of the french, yet nobody intelligent would call the gauls "french"
>greeks called themselves Romans just like 150 years ago, are you going to tell me they weren't Greek?
They spoke Greek, Medians and Parthians didnt spoke Kurdish
>>54929
>I'm just arguing about Medians and Parthians being the ancestors of the Kurds without any land claims...
Arguing that they may be part of their ancestry is one thing (and its pretty off mark still) but going from that to calling them "kurdish" is retarded. If you want famous ancestry you've got none other than Saladin
>>54974
it was mainly called Devlet-i Âliye-yi Osmâniyye (The Sublime Ottoman State)
>>50591
>Thoughts on this?
>be worth approximately £800,000 ($1.7m) today
wow its literally nothing
>>55040
>>54929
He's right, Kurds are fairly well mixed, and there haven't been any studies confirming that all Kurds are the product Medians.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/3qysf6/please_dont_be_like_this_guy/cwjluqv
>I'm not too knowledgeable in this area, but I believe the Hurrians were already 'Assyrified' by the time the first Iranics moved into West Asia. However, there was another native people near Urmia, the Mannaeans[1] , which were conquered and 'absorbed' by the Medians.
Basically, the Kurdish identity emerged long after the Medians had disappeared, but they can be seen as the first of subsequent waves of Iranic tribes settling in Mesopotamia. In Armenian medieval literature, Kurds were often called Medians, and, in one instance, there's a clear continuity of Kurds with Medians: the Nahr al-Akrad[2] .
I must mention that there were smaller tribes called the Mardians and the Matieni which may have been descendants of the Medians.
Kurds must have Median ancestry, but they certainly aren't the pure or the sole descendants of the Medians, for they had many settlements throughout Iran
>>55251
Mixed up my fucking meme arrows, everyone thing under and including the green line is a quote.
>>55251
reddit is not a source
>>55406
Is anything here linked to a source? lol go research what he wrote, it seems very plausible.
>>55040
>Yet genetically they are the ancestors of modern day french people
true, they only have one of the 3 traits though (genetics, language and religion) common with the French while the Kurds have two of those with all the peoples of the region changing their religion since the Median annd Parthian era (except for the Jews)
>and they're language had an impact in french and other languages from the area
not really that big of an impact and in the case of the Kurds we can speak about linguistic continuity
>The median connection is already flimsy as fuck, the Kurds could come out of another Iranian group
no they don't, they are both North-Western Iranians
>the Parthians where Eastern Iranian
like I said they completely merged with the local Median population and adopted their North-Western Iranian language and culture
>the lingua franca of the administration were both Aramaic and Greek, not any proto-kurdish
still their nobility and common people spoke a North-Western Iranian language had a huge deal of influence on the peoples of the region which is evident by the large number of North-Western Iranian loanwords in, say, Armenian or Georgian
>Just as the Gauls are the genetic and cultural ancestors of the french
Only genetic, not cultural
>They spoke Greek, Medians and Parthians didnt spoke Kurdish
They spoke an earlier form of it. It's like saying that the Greeks of Athen weren't Greek because they spoke a language different from the Modern Greek
>If you want famous ancestry you've got none other than Saladin
I'm not Kurdish though
>>55441
>I'm not too knowledgeable in this area, but I believe
this is enough to know that it's just speculative.
>>55406
>>55476
Also he lists his sources in his fairly interesting Kurdish history logs
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/34xgrs/kurdish_history_log_6_the_siege_of_irbil_12581259/
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/357kn6/kurdish_history_log_8_a_few_remarks_on_medians/
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/35e6c6/kurdish_history_log_9_early_cases_of_kurdish/
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/3myyp5/kurdish_history_log_15_further_research_into/
Speculative but at least sourced with quotes, unlike most of what is here.
>>55251
>In Armenian medieval literature, Kurds were often called Medians
While I believe that the Kurds are the descendants of the Medians and Parthians this particular argument in favor of that position isn't really convincing since it was most likely nothing but yet another example of "actualization" of ancient ethnonyms. For example, Medieval Armenian chroniclers called Timur "king of the Persians", "of the Persian tribe". They also called the Kara Koyunlu Turkmens "Scythians", "Scythian tribes".
>could have developed into a thread about historical instances of altruism and charity
>instead modern ethno-politics and hole-poking
>>55442
"North Western Iranian" is a linguistic subgroup of Iranian, "north western iranian doesn't automatically makes a "kurd".
Can you provide any proof that the Medians had any linguistic and cultural influence on the Kurds, other than nationalist reconstructions and revisionist? Saying that they where "north-western iranians" doesnt count as a proof.
>still their nobility and common people spoke a North-Western Iranian language had a huge deal of influence on the peoples of the region which is evident by the large number of North-Western Iranian loanwords in, say, Armenian or Georgian
The "nobility" of the Parthians wasnt Kurdish, stop with that retardedness. The "common people" could be anything, as the Arsacid state was formed by many semi-autonomous kingdoms of the Iranian plateau and beyond.
>Only genetic, not cultural
Still part of their ancestors, and as I've said they had and impact in their language, wether big or small doesnt matter. I still wouldn't call the Gauls French
>They spoke an earlier form of it. It's like saying that the Greeks of Athen weren't Greek because they spoke a language different from the Modern Greek
But at least both identifies as "Hellenes", something the Kurds doesnt have (neither the Medes nor the Parthians identified as "Kurds")
>>55848
I-It's not too late!
>>55829
That's a huge whole in his idea you're right. I'll stick to my parents definition, Kurds are gypsy mountain niggers.
>>55848
Do you think Turks were making a political statement or were being generous?
>>55885
lmao
they both (Medians and Parthians) speak a North-Western Iranian language juts like the kurds
they both lived in North-Western Iran and adjacent territories just like the Kurds
stop with this ethnonym bullshit, ethnonyms evolve especially when you consider the huge timespan we are talking about
all in all, we can consider Medians, Parthians and Kurds the same people who are just separated by time, they really have more things in common than the opposite
>But at least both identifies as "Hellenes"
Only cuz of the West being such Ancient Greece-boos
>>56133
So you have 0 proof then? Glad you conceded
>all in all, we can consider Medians, Parthians and Kurds the same people who are just separated by time, they really have more things in common than the opposite
>they really have more things in common than the opposite
Its hard to affirm that when you are not presenting any kind of proof. Good luck finding similarities between the Medians (which we know little) and the Kurds, other than same linguistic groups (which is also true of Gilaki and Mazandarani) and geographical location
>>50591
I have to admit I know nothing of this but it's pretty interesting
>>55848
>Could have developed into a thread about ethno-religious politics
>Instead it's about some entirely different intractable irregular warfare.
This is a very strange kind of feel.
>>56300
Idk what else do you need though? you can say Gilakis and Mazandaranis are pretty much Kurdish too, they don't identify themselves aas Kurds only because of Iran's government being anti-Kurdish
>you are not presenting any kind of proof
and you are?
>>55914
Pretty certain that the board's quality will improve once things have settled down. Don't know how long that'll take.
>>56010
Entirely plausible, I think, that it was a show of magnanimity meant to impress the European powers.
Though, the clandestine nature of the aid operation actually makes me wonder about that. If the point was to generate positive publicity, why bother with a 'secret shipment'? Unless it was calculated that the act should appear in the press afterward anyway.
>>56495
The discussion at hand regarding the Kurds and Turks isn't necessarily poor, just off topic.
>>56557
That's true. But the thread itself could be better.
>>56458
You're retarded beyond belief. Gilakis and Mazandaranis are not Kurds, it has nothing to do with iranian politics. You're equating "North-Western Iranian" with Kurd, wich is a pretty flawed methodology, its like equating Cornish with Brytonic, and calling Welsh "Cornish". It doesnt make any sense.
>and you are?
I dont need to present any proof, because I'm not making idiotic statements like the Parthians or Medians beign "Kurds". How could an ancient people become a "Kurd" backwards? Time travelling kurds?
>>56692
"Kurd" is just a common name for various extremely related North-Western Iranian populations? which are like a dialect continuum of sorts with some nuance to it due to geography of the region and its history
Said identity has been embraced by all of them (the Zaza, Kurmanjis, Soranis, Goranis etc) except for the ones who are present only in Iran. Gilakis and Mazandaranis can be considered sub-ethnic groups of the Kurds (i.e. North-Western Iranians).
>How could an ancient people become a "Kurd" backwards? Time travelling kurds?
I've said numerous times that the ethnonyms isn't important in this case. Medians, Parthians and Kurds can be considered one people separated by time who NOW choose to call themselves Kurds so we can say that Medians and Parthians were Kurdish in the sense that they were the Kurds in the Antiquity who hadn't yet choos to identify themselves as Kurds, capisce?
