>Roman law
>Catholic
>Democracies
Why is Latin America not considered part of Western Civilization? Is it because of economic and ethnic reasons? Is Industrialization as important to the "Western" status as the other pillars?
>>498957
The mudblood, mostly.
>>498957
Are they not? I always considered them part.
>>498957
Latin America is heavily influenced by native Americans. It's basically a hybrid of western civilizations and native civilizations. Calling Mexico western is like calling Obama white.
>>498957
Western has come to mean industrialized.
This is why South Korea and Japan are western more or less.
>>498957
In college, here in Chile, we always had 3 or 4 euro students at any time, usually spaniards, frenchies, germans or dutch. I distinctly remember that when asked that very same question to them, a dutch girl said that she didn't consider the whole of latin america as western save for the southern cone. The french on the other hand became quite passionate on this, defending the idea that the whole latin america was western as well. Then the argument got kinda heated and it was stopped by the teacher.
I never saw any dutchie hanging around with the french or spaniards. The latter usually integrated with us chileans quite well while the former were sorta clannish
>>499098
You don't know what you're talking about
Only Argentina and Uruguay are western because native cultures did not really influence them.
They are Western, and anybody who says otherwise is spouting completely baseless Stormfront-tier shit. The fact that they're regularly excluded from this category points to deep insecurities in the Western identity more than anything else.
>>499372
>Argentina and Uruguay are western because native cultures did not really influ
argentina es white!
>>499372
>because native cultures did not really influence them.
t. argentina es white
>>499372
This. I would consider Chile and (to a lesser extent) Brazil to be runner ups
The reasons are economic and political, not ethnic. Key problem here is
>democracies
They aren't democracies, for the most part they've been totalitarian military dictatorships up until only very recently at which point its no longer suitable /his/ discussion.
>>499417
>I don't know history and I'm 15 years old
Stop playing tropico and read a book.
>>499098
>Latin America is heavily influenced by native Americans
By this logic, New Zealand shouldn't be considered Western. Only Bolivia, Peru and Paraguay recognize native american languages as co official.
>>499417
Colombia and Costa Rica have been continuous democracies since their foundation. And in most countries in the region dictatorships haven't held office for more than 1/5th of the postcolonial existence. What could be argued is that democracy in the overall region has been constantly interrupted or threatened with interruption.
Economic reasons also hold some ground, though. Industrialization does play a huge role in culture and it is mostly absent in Latin America.
>>499392
Eh it depends.
some definitions maybe others no.
Modernized is a better term.
>>499432
1. Most New Zealanders are purely white or purely native, unlike in Latin America, there isn't significant mixing of the races and cultures
2. Language is not the only aspect of culture
>>499494
1. How's that relevant?
2. I'd assume that a population that amounts to 15% of their total one have more cultural contributions than just the language, in one way or another
>>498957
Samuel Huntington touched upon this point in his book Clash of Civilizations. Argentina and Chile consider themselves part of Western civilization, and a good argument could be made that they are. But as another anon has pointed out, many, if not most Latin American countries have cultures heavily influenced by the native populations. Then again, the native influence is often overstated, such as in Mexico, where a people speaking a European language, worshiping in a European religion, and otherwise adhering to European customs play up their native link for purposes of immigration politics.
>>499494
>1. Most New Zealanders are purely white or purely native, unlike in Latin America, there isn't significant mixing of the races and cultures
Lol a fuck ton of Whites have some native and many Maori have some white in them.
Not to mention the spillover of Pakeha and Maori culture into each other.
>>499539
>1. How's that relevant?
Because it means New Zealand is mostly western, unlike Latin America which is a mix of western and native.
>2. I'd assume that a population that amounts to 15% of their total one have more cultural contributions than just the language, in one way or another
Yes, but not to the amount seen in Latin America. In Latin America, the average person is half native and half European, and their culture reflects this.
>>499656
>Because it means New Zealand is mostly western, unlike Latin America which is a mix of western and native.
This is a really broad statement as Latin America is huge, you're also implying native culture isn't blended together with a mostly predominant European one. How does native culture influence Uruguay, for instance? They're Catholic, love football, speak Spanish, have mostly adapted european cuisine and culture in general.
>>499585
While we could argue that the southern cone is more or less western, because of far less native influence on their core cultures (La Plata plains and chilean central valley), this case cannot be imposed on the rest of the region. I remember a french author that came with the concept of 'Far West' (as in Far East) to denote the extreme point of the western culture in latin america, as a sort of venn diagram in which countries like Bolivia are almost completely outside the western sphere, while uruguay is mostly inside of it.
Brazil is western and I would wager the whole continent. If you disagree you probably just haven't had the chance to 1.visit Latin America and 2.visit a place that is not western, like Asia.
This is a rich country bubble that disturbs your world view. If the Iberian peninsula hadn't fallen into oblivion people would see the similarities much more clearly
>>499656
>their culture reflects this
Not on 50-50 ratio. Sure there is some Native American influence in food, music, art, superstitions and maybe some festivals, but even in those fields the influence is small. Maybe 50% in food and superstition, 10% in music, and 30% in art and festivals.
Most Latin American natives and mestizos spent 300 years as serfs in what basically amounted to Spanish Feudalism implanted in the Americas, and then 150-180 in some loose continuation of said system. It is not like India where the British just bossed the local authorities into submission. The local religions, political entities and institutions were wiped out, and without those hardly any philosophy could sustain itself in an illiterate population. What you basically have left are a bunch of "ornamental" Native American dressings sticked on top of an overall Iberian core.
>Roman law
>Christian
>Democracies
That would also include many African and Asian countries.
The reason why we are not Western is because we are brown and poor.
>>499417
Latin American military dictatorships weren't totalitarian, only authoritarian.
Nobody is really saying what is necessary for some place to be considered part of the western world.
So far all we have are people telling what they feel about the topic, lets define what one place needs to have to be considered part of the west and then we have our answer.
I think number one is of course European language.
>>499432
Mexico recognize them as well.
>>499765
>whole continent
>including Bolivia and Suriname/Guyanas
>>498957
>Why is Latin America not considered part of Western Civilization?
Nobody who isn't retarded doesn't consider them a part of Western Civilization.
>>499392
No, by literally all definitions.
>>499487
>Industrialization does play a huge role in culture and it is mostly absent in Latin America.
United States of America, c. 1783: A Decidedly Non-Western Nation
>>499656
By the fact that the classification used is idiotic and incoherent. Nobody wants to talk, but it's because they are non-white and underdeveloped, despite having exactly the same culture, religion and language.
It is understandable to point the differences between the Anglo-Saxon and Latin/Mediterranean cultures. But, if Spain is Western, and, let's say, Honduras is not, we have a pretty retard standard.
>>500525
I guess you could say western civilization has evolved over time. And these areas that didn't quite evolve the same way are difficult to group into the same category.
It is the mindset, the south America is full of commies loving man childs like chavez, castro, Maduro ...etc and their tendency to abuse power and dictatorship, their brutal... savage behaviors ,their laziness....call South America a part of western civilization is embarrassing the civilization itself.
>>499102
that's because northern euros are conceited assholes, anon
t. euro
>>499765
we-we're still here anon
>>498957
>Why is Latin America not considered part of Western Civilization?
Since when has it not? It's clearly a part of Western Civilization, considering it exists as a direct product of Western imperialism.
What you are looking for I think, is why isn't Latin America 1st world in development, and that you can blame on several instances of American intervention and CIA mingling, but also the drug cartels and government corruption.
>>499988
Being poor has nothing to do with it. Brown does to a much greater extent. It's really the lasting taint of what people see as the natives and the native cultures. That said, remove the taint and they're all Western.
For a fair comparison, look at Russia and the reasons it is often not considered Western.
>>501495
This is true.
t. Norwegian.
>>501550
>look at Russia and the reasons it is often not considered Western
Because it's
>poor
>orthodox
>violent
>corrupt
>developing
Latin America fulfills all of that except for orthodox.
>>499417
>They aren't democracies
Europe wasn't much of a democracy either until the 1920s and arguably the 1950s.
>>501588
Have you heard of our Lord and Savior, the European Union?
>>499098
I'm guessing China is western, too, then?
>>499098
The true west isn't industrialized anymore, this isn't 19th century. We're all running on IT and service sectors while outsourcing manufacturing industry to the 3rd world.
>>501622
I'm going to echo our Icelandic brethren and just show you pic related.
>>501672
GODAMMIT I WANT THAT OIL
>>498957
Western civilisation is a pretty arbitrary intellectual construct. Inasmuch as there is any sense in talking about it though, yeah, Latin America is a part of it due to institutional similarities.
>>501495
>butthurt southern european
come back when you aren't in debt to us :^)
If by that measure, the Philippines is a Western country as well.
>>502403
Thing is they don't speak a western language unlike Lat-Ams. Not to mention the large presence of Chinese and Muslims.
>>498957
because we are brown
Why does everything need to be "western"?
>>499432
venezuela recognizes them too
>>501595
Being corrupt doesn't mean you aren't Western.
South Africa isn't considered Western because of the blacks that took over and their large population there.
Colombian here.
It's a combination of all factors really. Being mostly brown or even black and different looking to White Europeans alienates us. We speak an European language and only small minorities know native languages but, for the most part Spain wants nothing to do with us except for economic investments. Also we have been historically isolated from most historical events so most of the time Europe + America forget we even exist.
>>499075
Actually only Bolivia, Peru and Guatemala are significantly culturally influenced by native culture
>>503319
Not so knowledgeable on Paraguay, but I guess the guarani were important to them, and the language is taught on schools. There's at least one paraguayan on /int/ that speaks Guarani
>>503426
Yeah, maybe Paraguay as well, but they're not like Peru or Bolivia
An Haiti and many small islands in the Caribbean if you want to take into account Black culture. Actually the entire Caribbean is probably too trirracial and mixed to be "Western"
>>499372
When that meme will stop? Tell us about something either Argentina or Uruguay are relevant outside their "muh southern cone" circlejerk
>>503448
It's true though
>>503299
Isolated just because we're not capable of inserting ourselves into those historical events
>>503451
Is it true just because you said so? Those two countries are irrelevant as fuck. It's like saying balt countries are hugely important.
>>503451
There are more than 1 million quechua speakers and 1 million guarani speakers. I don't think they have 2 million pre-columbian languages enthusiasts
>>498957
They have a different, separated "latino" identity themselves, at least the immigrants in european countries. Not even iberians enter in this identity. They will only get defensive if you call them not-western if they sense you're actually insulting them, they will accept it gladly if you sweeten it with different words that mean the same.
Western is a term used to the USA, Canada, Australia and the NZ can say they're european without looking stupid.
>>503458
They're irrelevant but still Western and not influenced by native culture
>>503482
To be western is to be relevant, m8.
>>503464
In Argentina an Uruguay? are you sure those speakers aren't people from Bolivia or Paraguay?
>>503483
What about Portugal, New Zealand, Denmark...
>>503487
Portugal and New Zealand are attached to the European Union and the UK respectively
Denmark is inmersed within the nordic circle and the germanic European Union.
Meanwhile, Mercosur is just a fapping club
>>503490
But those individual countries are irrelevant. Irrelevancy doesnt make them non-western
>>503484
Uruguay has barely this many people, and yeah, with Mercosul/Mercosur, many Bolivians and Paraguayans immigrated to Argentina, boliguayos like they call them. I sometimes see those Bolivian flute players in Rio's centre too
Uruguay is white as fuck, seriously.
>>503440
Haiti can't be Western because it had a revolution and murdered all of the whites on the island.
>>503534
Yes, Haiti is deff. not Western. The entire Caribbean as I said is too "exotic"
>>498957
It is to me because I'm into geography and I'm not a white supremacist.
>>503434
Mestizo nations still aren't white. Only majority white nations will do for white supremacists.
>>502295
I'm not
t. Andorra
>>503779
>irrelevant backwater shithole
