![Scar-the-lion-king-30869919-834-1026[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XJTnIQQ.jpg "Scar-the-lion-king-30869919-834-1026[1].jpg")
Are there any instances of historical figures admitting that they were, in fact, evil instead of trying to rationalize themselves into good guys?
>>494524
Genghis Khan walked into a town his men were pillaging the fuck out of and declared himself the "Scourge of God" so I suppose he never bothered trying to pretend to be a good guy.
>>494790
>I suppose he never bothered trying to pretend to be a good guy.
what is good?
>>494790
Wasn't is Attila the Hun who was known as the Scourge of God?
>>494813
>what is good?
you know like, don't kill and shit, 10 commandments
>>494790
>I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, god would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.
>instrument of god
>evil
RETARD ALERT
>>494813
Well thats quite the grey area these days but I'd go with not pillaging, looting, burning and just generally shitting on and raping everything.
Though to be fair Shah Mohammed brought it upon himself.
>>494828
>Well thats quite the grey area these days but I'd go with not pillaging, looting, burning and just generally shitting on and raping everything.
but why shouldn't he? what is the reasoning for someone not to. Why isn't it good to pillage, rape and kill?
>>494828
If the peasants didn't want to get shit on, they should have tried being smarter and stronger.
Steppe up nigga.
>>494835
you just killed the thread
>>494524
Stalin was quoted as saying something along the lines of "Now the last glimmers of light in me are extinguished" after his mom died.
Didn't Cao Cao have a pretty realistic view of just how evil he was in the eyes of others? Although I suppose that's more literature than history.
Oda Nobunaga addressed himself as "The Demon King of the Sixth Heaven" in a letter to Takeda Shingen.
He was also well known for being brutally ruthless and not giving a fuck.
>>494815
I believe so. He also said where his horse treads no grass grows
>>494948
His wife, not mum. His first wife.
>>494948
Does this count?
>>494835
>but why shouldn't he? what is the reasoning for someone not to. Why isn't it good to pillage, rape and kill?
Doing so creates mourning and revenge. Mourning and revenge encourages the afflicted to do the same to the afflicter. This creates a cycle of feuding that doesn't end till both sides come to the realization of such a reality.
Also, too much of this feuding beings to create a culture thereof. Look at the steppes. Millenia of pillage, rape, and killing created cultures who readily accepted pillage, rape, and killing. These cultures also spread this to others, creating even more cyclic feuds.
TL;DR: It causes a waste of manpower and resources.
>>495183
Stalin was a realist who took his atheism seriously and knew he was accountable to no one and nothing. You gotta admire his shamelessness.
>>495183
I think he was being "edgy" rather than evil with this sentence. It would basically be one of those fedora quotes if it was said by some random neckbeard and not Stalin.
>>494827
Attila was fucking based.
>>495193
What is waste? Why is it bad to waste stuff?
>>495212
I swear to god there's been one faggot since /his/ was created that for the life of him cannot stop confusing attilla and Genghis with each other
Not saying you're him but yeah
>>495221
Well in his defense Dan Carlin attributed that quote to Genghis Khan.
>>494524
No. They were either insane, psychopathic and sadistic or acting as they believed to be just.
I very much doubt "I'm evil" is a paraphrased quote from any powerful leader in history
>>495215
>What is waste? Why is it bad to waste stuff?
Maybe you could learn if you weren't currently wasting your time shitposting on an African tribal committee forum.
>>494837
>Steppe up
>>495234
What is the appeal of Dan Carlin? I started listening to some of his shit and couldn't stand it. It was so contrived. Like I was listening wrestling or some shit.
>>495262
He's a good story teller.
>>494524
>admitting that they were, in fact, evil
Maybe on their death bed but most humans justify their actions, no matter how evil, by reasoning that they are doing it for the right/justified reasons, is the same for criminals all the way up to dictators.
>>494948
Was about his first wife, actually pretty poetic
>>495314
Stalin actually wrote poetry under an alias at some point in his life.
>>495314
I'm sure plenty of people doing evil things might have criticized themselves for being evil in private but those who hold power are always sure to keep a narrative going and give out justifications so all the people under them feel vindicated in their actions.
Then you have dozens of instances in Byzantine history where former emperors lament their entire lives as having been wicked and try to apologize to everyone they wronged, even people they had blinded and tortured.
>>495332
Yep under the alias of Soselo, his early life would make a awesome movie, it's a shame that most history glosses over his early years.
From a guy who killed millions of people:
>The pinkish bud has opened,
>Rushing to the pale-blue violet
>And, stirred by a light breeze,
>The lily of the valley has bent over the grass
>>495359
It's like a cliche in fiction to have the worst murderers also being highly cultured in the arts and practice poetry or painting or listen to opera music. Doesn't surprise me to see it in reality.
>>495262
dan carlin is a guy who shills his youtube channel on /his/, nothing more.
People who realize they aren't good don't actively identify as evil, they just say they dgaf. See the Melian dialogue.
>>495476
>the Melian dialogue.
This was quite interesting to read, but what is the connection to this thread?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melian_Dialogue
>>495503
The Athenians are completely rejecting Greek morality. It's point (however historical it is) was to illustrate this, Thucydides has a negative attitude toward that, and Xenophon's treatment of the Athenians in his history portrays them as morally bankrupt compared to the righteous Spartans (notice how much better Sparta treated the defeated Athenians--which would bite Sparta in the butt). The Athenian baseness was often attributed to their democratic governance.
>>495240
Since when is Papua New Guinea in Africa?
>>494524
>Are there any instances of historical figures admitting that they were, in fact, evil
Not common
>instead of trying to rationalize themselves into good guys?
Also extremely uncommon.
Most historical figures just did what they felt needed to be done with a shrug.
>>495526
>(notice how much better Sparta treated the defeated Athenians--which would bite Sparta in the butt)
plz, Sparta only refrained from razing Athens to the ground because then the anti-Athens alliance they were in charge of would disintegrate.
>>495183
>THIS UGLY FUCKING POET IS GAINING UNLIMITED POWER THROUGH THIS ONE SIMPLE COMMUNIST TRICK AND BASICALLY YOU'RE JUST FUCKING STUPID
>Click here to find out how
>>494837
>steppe up nigga
Somebody, make this a meme
>>494835
Purge this whole faggot board
>>495698
>Most historical figures just did what they felt needed to be done with a shrug
this most people in power do what they think needs doing
they dont do it to be good or evil they do it because they belive its the best course of action for "insert random situation"
A leader has to find the way, show the way and go the way
>>494837
>Steppe up nigga.
mein sides
>>495725
Spartan pretty much never massacred the inhabitants of a city after taking it, throughout the entirety of the war.
>>495215
Waste
verb
1. To use, consume, spend, or expend thoughtlessly or carelessly.
2. To cause to lose energy, strength, or vigor; exhaust, tire, or enfeeble: Disease wasted his body.
3. To fail to take advantage of or use for profit; lose: waste an opportunity.
4.
a. To destroy completely: The invaders wasted the village.
b. Slang To kill; murder.
its literally negative in its use thats why its bad to waste
your question was basically
>why is it bad to do something destructive instead of something constructive
good job sounding deep btw
>>495373
>It's like a cliche in fiction to have the worst murderers also being highly cultured in the arts and practice poetry or painting or listen to opera music.
In Chinese history, both heroic figures and villainous figures are usually highly cultured in the arts and great poets.
Which usually ends in literal duel of painting and poetry between heroes and villains in Chinese folk tales.
>>496004
>how?
>just download the free horse archer army
link pls
>>494837
Kek
>>496028
>wait 2 hours for download
>oh hey its done
>horde.exe "double click"
>a entire horde of horse archers spawns in your room you are instantly crushed and your house explodes from the expanding mass of horses, men and armor
>a few mongolians survive and raid your neighbours
>gets killed by cops after a "highspeed chase" through the suburbs while doing the parthian shoot
I would say Vlad Tepes knew he was evil. But he may have felt his cruelty was justified.
>>494524
Merkel?
>>496390
No. Not even close, what a fucking meme answer.
>>494826
>you know like, don't kill and shit, 10 commandments
>Thou shalt not kill!
>Except the natives of Jericho, kill them all.
>Fuck the first-born Egyptians too
God's bipolar I think.
>>496494
>God's bipolar I think.
Well duh, he's a Jew.
>>496494
Misunderstanding. It's not actually "you shall not kill", but "you shall not murder." Murder = unlawful killing. The killing of native Canaanite peoples was lawful, according to the Israelites and their scriptures at least.
>>495001
He was probably baiting Shingen (who had become a monk previously to avoid the wrath of Ikko Ikki) to attack him (though Shingen was too smart to get baited).
>>496087
No he pretty much certainly thought himself righteous Christian ruler. Defending Christendom and ruling with a spiked iron glove.
>>496542
It actually only applied to Jews. You could do whatever to Non-Jews.
>>494524
Is there anyone outside of actual lunatics who consider oneself evil? Your run of the mill "sane" evildoers almost invariably just act under a lawless mindset, but they don't consider themself evil.
>>495001
>Oda Nobunaga addressed himself as "The Demon King of the Sixth Heaven"
Except you're looking at this in western eyes.
Demons in Japanese/Chinese Buddhist heaven are mere guardians. Very powerful ones. Nips use them in their language to imply supreme power.
C A O
A
O
>>496610
Novel =/= History.
In History, Cao Cao is the last prime minister of the Han Dynasty trying to get its shit back together. Succeeding only in the North.
>>494835
Get out of here, you pseudo-intellectual.
>>495751
>UGLY FUCKING POET
Old Stalin maybe, but Young Stalin spouting love poems would have won any girl
>>496643
>manlet supreme
>>496643
he had a thing for young girls his whole life
From my point of view the younglings are evil.
>>496604
And the particular realm Nobunaga claimed was the realm of greed. And Oda was trying to conquer the entire Japan, as well as Korea and China later. He was basically flaunting his ambitions at everyone.
>>494835
>Why isn't it good to pillage, rape and kill?
Because Christ said so. If we go by nature, killing and raping then looting is natures way of progress, only the strongest are allowed to make children and the loot gives them the resources needed to thrive.
>>494835
>Why isn't it good to pillage, rape and kill?
It is good as long as you are not at receiving end
>>494524
This dude
>>496643
This was a fucking actor for propaganda. nt the actual Stalin
>>498172
[citation needed]
>>498165
Alt translation plox
>>498274
In order to not be screwed over you must be evil. Thus, still evil.
>>496076
Its scary to think how effective steppe tribes would still be in a modern setting. Any other historical group will shit themselves at the firepower. Horsefucker tactics would still be scary with a gun, ask the cowboys
>>498731
Horsefuckers would get mowed down by static guns, snipers, or any specialized shooter. Just like then, they'd only be good against people who aren't good at shooting and not on a horse.
>>496643
fake pic
at least the right one
>>498172
It's an edited photograph of Stalin.
>>495476
>See the Melian dialogue.
>using Thucydides as evidence for Athenian self-perception and imperialism
That's dangerous shit man.
>>494524
>Evil
>Existing
>>494524
No one thinks they're evil, only maybe some kind of badass.
If they thought they were evil they wouldn't be doing what they were doing.
>>494524
Do you really think anyone would follow figures of authority if they preached evil?
Adolf not even once wished for evil on his people, yet he's the most "evil" leader in today's media.
Americans on the other hand, "I am become death, destroyer of worlds" and then proceed dropping some nukes on dem ebul japs.
>>494524
Hitler called himself evil.
Paraphrasing: Hitler once told Albert in private, "If I die, I shall be the most hated man in history."
Hitler's favorite art was also riddled with evil. His favorite artist was Franz Von Stuck, with such classics as "Sin" and "The Bad Conscience", pic related
Hitler knew 100% he was evil
>>504709
Here's the picture
>>504638
Probably because he was genuinely evil.
>>495215
>Why is it bad to waste stuff?
Privileged sophist
>>494524
>Inb4 good and evil are subjective.
>>504709
"People hate me" != "I am evil" retard
>>498731
Fuel air bombs called, they said you're stupid
>>504823
I'm pretty sure the guy who wanted to start another Great War, kind of knew that the rest of the world would hate him
>le Hitler is a misunderstood genius meme
Stop this. You don't sound smart. You don't sound contrarian. You aren't a rouge maverick bringing a new philosophical twist on history to the table --- the only thing you sound is like an edgy fedora lord.
>>504832
>Stop this. You don't sound smart. You don't sound contrarian. You aren't a rouge maverick bringing a new philosophical twist on history to the table --- the only thing you sound is like an edgy fedora lord.
kek, stop projecting you paranoid cunt, I'm neither a stormfag nor a naziboo, just telling you what he likely meant by that
Anyway
>I'm pretty sure the guy who wanted to start another Great War, kind of knew that the rest of the world would hate him
Again, he thought that he was saving them from Bolshevism.
Plus, I think he was counting on France and GB pussying out yet again like they did in 1938
>>497082
From my point of view SAND is evil.
>>504838
>Again, he thought that he was saving them from Bolshevism.
So that makes it okay to start an even larger great war?
He was a delusional psychopath who should have never held office. His ascent to the top was pure luck; once at the top, he used his newfound power to completely fuck everything up for anyone that he disliked
He was counting on France and the UK not fighting. Once he invaded Poland, he literally already knew he was finished. Once he invaded Russia, he literally already knew he was finished. But, he kept the fight going on and caused millions of deaths, permanently and forever fucking up the European landscape, demographics, culture, ideas, philosophy, etc etc
>>498731
These are your modern horse archers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)
There are also guys like the Janjaweed but they're more of a raid/rape/pillage force than a fighting force.
>>504874
>So that makes it okay to start an even larger great war?
Again, the question in OP's pic was "whether he considered himself evil".
The act itself was evil, but he considered it good and saw himself good for doing it.
You seem to have lost control of your emotions while posting, which is a big no-no
>>504887
> but he considered it good and saw himself good for doing it.
It's kind of hard to see yourself as "good" when you are genocide people bro
He saw himself as "right". Is that the word you were trying to find?
You seem to have lost control of your brain while posting, which is a big no-no
>>504926
>It's kind of hard to see yourself as "good" when you are genocide people bro
So you're naive as well
>who is Mlatko Radic
>who is Slobodan Milosevic
>who is Saddam Hussein
>who is Pol Pot
>who are the Young Turks
>who is every other dictator that committed genocide
>>494813
Good is promotion of well being. People who think this is just Sam Harris have been unusually ignorant of the last 70 years of psychology as well as thousands of years of non spiritual philosophy
>>495526
Did an exercise based around this for a political consulting job once. The whole point was that the Melians are fucking idiots who were too prideful and threw away their lives instead of living to fight another day. Which I'd have to agree with.
>>494524
Charles Manson... If you can call him a historical figure.
Aside from a few psychos like that, the closest you get is, yeah, Atilla and a few of his ilk, referring to themselves as a terrible vengeance their victims brought upon themselves. More commonly, folks that acknowledge that some horrific act they committed was required for the greater good. (From Alexandria to Nagasaki.)
For the most part, however, even the most terrible of people believe they are good people. People rationalize their actions, and take actions for rational reasons. From their own perspective, as well as from the perspective of those that follow them, they are righteous men. (I could point to the obvious, but I want to avoid Godwin's law.) Generally speaking, if they win, it's a long time before anyone says otherwise. Many of our greatest historical heroes may one day be seen as evil tyrants and mad men, should a society with a conflicting narrative rise in our place, and even our own society has been known to rebrand a former saint into a demon.
Truth be told, for the most part, men are not broken down into camps of good and evil. Men are just men. Granted, slotting men into camps of good and evil, is also an act of men, and the core of the tribalism that makes civilization possible. In the end, however, most of the evil done in this world, is committed by those who believe they are combating it.
>>504638
>Americans on the other hand, "I am become death, destroyer of worlds" and then proceed dropping some nukes on dem ebul japs.
That was Oppenheimer, lamenting at what he had done, which is why it was quoted in the Franck report, urging Truman not to drop the bomb.
But Hitler believed he was doing god's work for the good of his people... And Truman believed much the same (though, in reality, Truman and his handlers were thinking more of the future after the war, of the Stalin and the Russians specifically, more than he was of the Japanese, when he dropped those bombs).
>>494835
Plz go and don't come back. Literally every question on this board you could ask some inane other question of. It's not deep to do that.
To have productive and interesting discussions, we start with a set of commonly held assumptions. One of them is that raping and pillaging is wrong, another is that OP is a faggot. So don't try to go beyond the question, please.
