So this place is strange and interesting in many ways, Politically, its been very hostile. linguistically, they are some of the most isolated people on earth, despite not being that at all in real life. Culturally, its all fucked and blended from Russia, Persia, Turkey and god knows what else and Historically, well... that's what I hope we can talk about today.
So what happened here. Who are these mountain people and how did they say so separate from the local giants that tend to pass through there?
Try not to say "Muh Mountains"
>>492671
>Muh Mountains
but that's exactly it.
>>492677
I know, but I would like to hear something more interesting.
Like Grand battles or political maneuvers.
Muh Mountains may be an accurate answer, but it sure as hell isn't satisfying
>>492680
Use this, I hear it's a great source for finding anything you want to find out about history.
https://www.wikipedia.org
basically the balkans with oil
>muh mountains
>between major powers
>no agriculture besides goats and some grain in the valleys
>>492682
/his/ has bitched and moaned about me using Wikipedia as a source more than any other website I've been to and you think you can just do this?
Nah man, I'm not falling for that.
![Queen_Tamara_of_Georgia[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/87MHMDK.jpg "Queen_Tamara_of_Georgia[1].jpg")
>>492680
Well I can tell you some political maneuvers of modern Georgia and fuck anyone who goes muh 25 year rule.
So yeah, why Georgia? Because it, along with Azerbaijan, is the pivotal point for the whole region, perhaps even more so. Georgia has the most important transport corridors for both North-South and East-West, so yeah. It's crucial. Just like Ukraine in a lot of ways, actually.
It also has a rich and pretty cool history but we're talking about more modern times. Georgia, being a country with extremely rich history, ended up basically sandwiched between Ottomans, Iranians and slowly rising to power Russkies, at lot like Ukraine, actually. In the end, Georgians, being heavily influenced by Byzantium and being Orthodox, decide to call for a Russian protectorate. Naturally, Russians don't give a shit about sovereignty and plain annex it, just like Ukraine at the time, actually.
Having a foothold in South Caucasus, Russians slowly move on and on. It's hard because mountain people are notoriously eager to protect their freedoms. Some, like Abkhazians, even decide to ally with Ottomans. For that alliance Russians basically give Abkhazia (which is a separate nation) to Georgia as a consolation prize to play with.
In 1918 as Russian Empire was seemingly crumbling, Georgia proclaimed its independence, just like Ukraine (and a lot of other countries, duh), actually. Then it got occupied by Russians again.
Nothing much happened there under USSR. Everyone's second favorite mass murderer was from Georgia and even everyone's third favorite mass murderer, Beria, was from Georgia too. However, Georgians themselves are a crafty trader bunch, you know the type, so gommunism didn't hit them THAT much (unlike Ukraine, actually).
Well, come 1991, tanks in Moscow, Belavezha Accords and all kinds of shit starts hitting the fan. Armenians and Azeris break into an all-out war because they fucking hate each other etc etc. That's where things become interesting.
>>493054
I'll let you cont. if you plan to, but
>For that alliance Russians basically give Abkhazia (which is a separate nation) to Georgia as a consolation prize to play with.
Well, that explains the revolts.
Is that still going on by the way?
Anyways, why is south ossetia revolting then?
![photo[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fgoeOB3.jpg "photo[1].jpg")
>>493054
Georgia signs Act of Restoration of Independence. It is crucial to stress the Restoration part. Some countries like Ukraine didn't do it because gommies were still too strong (though in Ukrainian case it's technically a successor for both UkrSSR and UPR but we're getting off topic here).
Of course, "Restoration of Independence" sounds powerful and nice in theory. However, there was one fucking huge problem taken with it, and that is Abkhazia. Georgia restored the Constitution of 1918 which DID NOT have Abkhazia as a part of Georgian state, and Abkhazians instantly used that as a pretext to proclaim independence. Independence of a separate nation is good and all, but that meant Russia had a perfect way to force Georgia to be a Russian puppet (just like Moldova or just like it was attempted in Crimea with the guy called Meshkov). In my opinion, actually, virtually all conflicts on Post-Soviet space are if not completely planned then definitely fueled from Moscow. You'll see it soon enough even in Georgian case.
At the time the president of Georgia was Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a nationalist type politician with a lot of twists; one of the twists being the fact that he managed to get imprisoned for actually protesting FOR Stalin's cult of personality when Thaw happened.
Either way, president decides to launch a military operation with full Abkhazian-Russian border closure. It kinda works, then - SURPRISE - Russian "volunteers" join in. In Tbilisi itself a coup happens with Eduard Shevardnadze, a former Soviet foreign minister, becoming a new president. Gamsakhurdia gets thrown into exile and is later assassinated by Russians.
The situation in Abkhazia becomes dire, and a ceasefire agreement is issued, which - SURPRISE - Russia doesn't uphold. Georgian forces get stuck in Sukhumi with rifles and "Abkhazians" get tanks and artillery.
>>493076
All in due time, little Billy.
![Eduard-shevardnadz_2966559b[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WP2KbqQ.jpg "Eduard-shevardnadz_2966559b[1].jpg")
>>493085
Not only that, but - I forgot which year exactly it was - Abkhazians were all trigger happy for ethnic cleansing, winter was coming; and the only way back to the mainland with those conditions was by air. Georgia obviously was piss poor so Shevardnadze used the last resort: that is, calling Kravchuk in Kyiv. He instantly sent help via Ukrainian helicopters with Ukrainian fuel.
As for Abkhazia itself, it became your average unrecognized post-Soviet shithole. I actually had a change to visit it, it's not that it's dirty or anything. It's a fucking ghost town with ruins and emptiness everywhere, with locals trying to squeeze every penny from a tourist. The impression I got was something out of the silent movie era. It used to be one of the booming tourist destinations in USSR, for comparison, with excellent infrastructure.
So yeah, South Ossetia. This case is even more complicated. While Abkhazians actually live on their own land and have a history of statehood, Ossetians in Georgia are not indigenous. Georgian kings welcomed them as refugees back in the day. For us that means that South Ossetian territory is a clusterfuck of Georgian and Ossetian settlements. However, the conflict still arose because Russia.
Now, Ossetians are fucking cowards and can't fight for shit. They're almost like Arabs in that regard. Utterly useless. Still, with Russians backing them, they manage to squeeze a piece of Georgia too, albeit a way smaller one with a lot of Georgian enclaves.
Shevardnadze's coup, a bunch of disgruntled war vets turned criminals; particularly notorious Mkhedrioni (literally Lions) group did not help the situation at all. As a result, Georgia was as stereotypical corrupt piss poor post-Soviet state, as one could possibly get. Fuckall infrastructure, corruption everywhere, organized criminals having more power than actual government: it seemed that nothing could change at all. I'd compare Georgia then to Albania.
Georgian here,ask your answers
![Saakashvili76589[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6hRrgxL.jpg "Saakashvili76589[1].jpg")
>>493132
Then the ambitious golden boy comes. That is, of course, Mikheil Saakashvili. Pro-Western, with good education (first being Kyiv National University even), albeit still coming from Soviet nomenclatura family. Velvet revolution happens and reforms start.
I'm not too well-versed in economics, frankly, but as far as I know his policy was ultra-libertarian one. It worked really well, at least for a country so small (3 mil population or so).
Russia doesn't like Saakashvili one bit, obviously, especially since he actually starts DOING things, perhaps the first time on Post-Soviet space. All kinds of dirty tricks start. Smear campaigns, electricity cutoff, gas cutoff, full trade embargo, - you name it.
Unfortunately for Georgia, it also has another region with some separatist tendencies: Adjara. It's also the second most strategic region of Georgia after Abkhazia because it has an excellent harbor. Naturally, Russkies try to prepare an uprising there too.
Georgia has fuckall for an army still, so Saakashvili used the last resort: that is, calling Kuchma in Kyiv. He instantly sent help via tech and equipment which Georgia managed to pay off only way later.
With Abkhazia a Transnistria kinda situation was unfolding: state not recognized by anyone an only used as a Russian military base. However, South Ossetia was way more successful for Georgia because the enclave and neighborhood situation allowed Saakashvili to pour money into Georgian settlements to show Ossetians just how much of a shitty choice they made. It actually kinda works. for a time.
Cue 2008 and Bucharest NATO summit. The ridiculously meek reaction of the West made Russkies think it is time to act, and first one would have been already quite strategically weak Georgia. Since the beginning of the year troops near Southern Russian border had started to be amassed.
![ce9dd5e09dcd1d0c08a23a65f41e0457[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tTsHr15.jpg "ce9dd5e09dcd1d0c08a23a65f41e0457[1].jpg")
>>493172
Russkies will tell you that it was all about muh minority protection or muh border correction or whatever card they draw when an aggressive war they start doesn't work out as planned.
Instead, the plan was reestablishment of Georgia as a puppet state. Originally there were three strikes planned:
1. Land, South Ossetia.
2. Land, Abkhazia.
3. Sea with foothold, Adjara.
However, even though Russia was clearly the aggressor, Georgians did manage to make a fuckload of mistakes there. For example, their best servicemen were actually in Iraq, but the biggest one was probably a preemptive strike in South Ossetia idea to stop Russian provocative shelling.
South Ossetia has only one road to Russia, and that is Roki Tunnel. Georgian forces attempted to get there first and seize the strategically important bridge. Didn't work.
As a result, Russia started to carry out its battleplan. First it was information coverage about muh six trillion dead Ossetian children, then it were attacks on three fronts with Georgian navy being completely destroyed and strategically important harbor of Poti being seized but some things did not go as planned.
Yeah, Ukraine again. Yuschenko called for Baltic Presidents who together flew to Tbilisi to act like a kind of human shield.
Also Russian air force suffered a humiliating defeat. Supposedly it was set up beforehand by Ukrainian AA specialists but word on the street is, "beforehand" means literally a day before the war. The operation was conducted in such a complete secrecy that Russian planes weren't even using any means of protection because they didn't expect anything to be there.
Also some international response followed, Medvedev-Sarkozy plan happened but of course Russia didn't actually fulfill it. In the end, war pretty much preserved the status quo, albeit with Russia and a bunch of irrelevant countries recognizing independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
![532948_1146644[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2JCDUQV.jpg "532948_1146644[1].jpg")
>>493206
Later on Russians did manage to have a pro-Russian Georgian president elected but he's basically a zero and nobody cares about him. Saakashvili, however, did manage to create strong state institutions so the country isn't going to collapse any time soon, and showing that fighting corruption is possible even among the people who had been considered one of the most corrupt ever before is quite an achievement.
I made a lot of comparisons to Ukraine here on purpose. In my opinion, Georgia is like Ukraine of Caucasus: a vitally important country which is slipping away from Russia, all while "post-Soviet space" as a term is finally drifting into obscurity, where it finally belongs. It is no surprise that Georgians are also helping Ukraine to reform now. What goes around comes around.
2016 is going to be a fun year to witness, my friends.
Oh, and Georgian women are pretty fucking hot.
>>493217
Thanks man. I think Azerbaijan is also a really interesting country to talk about but unfortunately I don't know much about it.
![CheshenGuerXL[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2GYjrRZ.jpg "CheshenGuerXL[1].jpg")
>>493233
P.S.: One of the prominent volunteers fighting for Abkhazian independence was none other than Shamil Salmanovich Basayev. What goes around comes around indeed.
>>493233
Ukraine is actually pretty similar but it's gonna be a lot harder for them to escape russian influence because they have a lot stronger cultural and linguistic ties along with a size able russian minority. No mass reformer a la saakashvili has emerged from two revolutions and although they brought mikhial over, it's unlikely that he'll be able to pull off so many reforms
>>493245
I'd argue they have already almost escaped Russian influence, cultural and linguistic ties notwithstanding: the fact that Ukraine doesn't even need to buy Russian gas, THE biggest leverage for Moscow over Ukraine, is already telling; but that requires another series of long posts. Just wait and see, 2016 is going to be fun, like I said.
