![20090529_Great_Wall_8185[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YjBbdaE.jpg "20090529_Great_Wall_8185[1].jpg")
Roman """Empire""" lasted barely 500 years.
Chinese Empire 4000+.
>>490584
lol no, it didn't.
>>490600
Xia dynasty was founded 2000 years BC.
this is clearly not a bait thread
400bc-1400ad
chinese """""""""""""""""""""empire""""""""""""""""""""
is just fractured kingdoms with like 1000 kings at once
The Roman Empire lasted much longer.
The Western Roman Empire until 1806.
The Eastern Roman Empire (also known as Greek Empire) until 1453.
>le Byzantines is not Roman meme
>>490610
Rome fell in 476 ad my friend.
>>490621
>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""holy roman empire"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>>490605
Xia Dynasty is a myth.
China has an Empire didn't begin until Qin Shi Huangdi which was circa 226 BC.
Rome lasted from 509 BC to 1453 AD.
>>490669
>falling for 2200 year old propaganda
>>490669
>has
*as
the Great wall of China is probably the most stupid thing in history.
>>490669
Shang Dynasty isn't though.
We have writtern records from 1500 BC.
>China has an Empire didn't begin until Qin Shi Huangdi which was circa 226 BC.
It's bullshit no one cares how they titled themself it doesn't mean "emperor" anyway.
>>490674
What the fuck are you talking about?
Even Chinese historians which have been known to be bias as fuck do agree for now that the Xia Dynasty is a myth. The Shang and Zhou were just kingdoms.
>>490684
Even if that were true, which is isn't, there's still the Zhou dynasty.
>>490685
What isn't true?
Where's your proof that the Xia existed?
>>490676
Quin SHi Huang is an admirer of Donald Trump
>>490694
Britain technically had an emperor/empress, but your point is valid.
>Byzantine isn't Roman
Guys common, it's the current year.
>>490691
Holy shit, I didn't read your posts, like at all.
Yeah, the Xia may be mythical, although there's some evidence for a state existing at that time.
But saying "just kingdoms" is adding an artificial distinction to a fairly steady progression of civilization.
>>490666
city =/= empire
>>490712
>"Roman"
>>490720
and all of the people in the roman empire were totally full blooded romans from the city of rome amirite haha
>>490719
>Byzantine Empire especially after 1000 has barely any connections to original Roman Empire
except for the direct chain of events linking Augustus to Constantine XI
>>490719
If the USA conquered all of Eurasia but lost all of its American holdings to Africans, you'll end up with an American empire that doesn't own land in the Americas.
Replace America with Rome, Eurasia with Eastern Europe, and Africans with Germanic tribes and you end up with the Eastern Roman Empire.
>>490719
They had New Rome
>>490720
>Yuan
>Qing
>>490667
Voltaire pls
>>490764
both Manchurians and Mongols belonged to Sinosphere anyway
by "conquering" China they got their culture and societes conquered
>>490777
Something something USA Yurop American puppet something imperialism
>>490761
>Byzantine Empire was interrupted by Fourth Crusade. Contuinity is lost there.
not at all
the empire continued in Asia minor as the Empire of Nicaea
>no but after fall of Rome this empire clearly lost it's most important (atleast culturally and historically) part, it's core region
again not at all
the capital had been moved more than a hundred years before to Constantinople and that city quickly surpassed Rome
most emperors hardly ever visited Rome before the split and before it fell, while unified and before Constantine founded New Rome the Imperial residency shifted but tended to be Ravenna when in Italy
>>490792
not comparable
also we are talking about Rome and China
>>490797
>not at all
>the empire continued in Asia minor as the Empire of Nicaea
are you seriously retarded? how can someone ever consider this still a continuous Roman Empire
now not only this fucking "empire" lost it's core city, core region, but also lost it's replacement (constantinople)
that's pathetic, you can somehow argue that after 476 the Roman Empire continued, even despite soon it became definitely more Greek
but after Fourth Crusade it was internal Greek circlejerk not "Roman" at all and actually not any "Empire" at all
>>490806
>are you seriously retarded?
no u
>how can someone ever consider this still a continuous Roman Empire
because it was
>now not only this fucking "empire" lost it's core city, core region, but also lost it's replacement (constantinople)
empire
ˈɛmpʌJə/Submit
noun
1.
an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.
"the Roman Empire"
synonyms: kingdom, realm, domain, territory, province; More
2.
an extensive sphere of activity controlled by one person or group.
>that's pathetic,
nice opinion but that doesn't really matter when we're talking about history
plus they took it back anyway
so how you see it is
>venetian crusade takes core urban area of empire
>empire pushed from mainland greece into asia minor
>stops existing
To say the Chinese had continuity is like saying Rome, Byzantium, and the Holy Roman Empire was all one continuous Empire.
China isn't monolithic, it has many languages and has had Nomadic and Chinese rulers many times, just as Europe did.
>>490828
t. former african colony
>>490608
kek
>>490832
Rome is a butcher, don't try to say it is anything but.
>>490818
>Empire of Nicaea
how many times this "Roman" Empire will change it's name? why it changed in name in the first place if it was only pushed back?
>>490838
they didn't change it at all, they always referred to themselves as Romans
"Byzantine Empire" and "Empire of Nicaea" are both later inventions by historians that stuck
Is Tibet culturally east asian or central asian?
>>490694
The definition of the word Empire has changed over the thousands of years it's existed you autist.
If you want to get that fucking speglordy about it there was never a Chinese Empire since the term Empire originally referred to Rome and only Rome.
>>490584
the chinese and latin cultural areas still exist.
romans would recognise the political and social environments of latin countries in the same way people from the 3 kingdoms would recognise modern chinese social and political mores.
>>490719
>Byzantine Empire especially after 1000 has barely any connections to original Roman Empire
So at some point a nation just stops being what it is and becomes something else?
What about England? Is it still England? Because the people there don't speak the same language as Alfred the Great nor is their culture the same?
When exactly do we just say "Okay this nation can no longer be called this now because it's too different"?
>>490806
>The Roman Empire ended at the Fourth Crusade because it's MY OPINION.
Really lad? You might want to start acting more objective if you're going to discuss history.
You can't just decide when a nation ends because you don't like it anymore, there has to be some actual event that conclusively ends it as a political entity.
Losing Constantinople was not that. Byzantium still existed and they retook the city. So how exactly did it end in 1203?
>>490859
English language and culture are still descended from Old English
Byzantines were just Greeks pretending to be Roman
First Emperor of Japan, Jimmu, was in power around 660 BC. There is still an Emperor of Japan and he is of the same dynasty as the first Emperor.
>>491220
"Roman" culture became heavily influenced by Greek culture as time went on anyway.
Greek and Latin were both Roman languages. The Greeks and the Latins were not two different alien species,they had a lot in common. They were both Roman in the same way both Welsh and English are British.
Greeks were even called Roman right up until they gained independence from the Ottomans. Their identity and culture was very much linked to Rome.
>>491244
>Greek and Latin were both Roman languages. The Greeks and the Latins were not two different alien species,they had a lot in common. They were both Roman in the same way both Welsh and English are British.
noice b8 m8 7/10
>>491241
>Japanese """""""Empire"""""""
>Do nothing for like 2000 years.
>Kill some Koreans and some Chinese
>Get nuked
wew nice empire.
>>491248
>Literally no argument so I'll say it's bait so I look like I know better.
>>490584
Saying that China is a continuous, long-lasting civilization is complete horseshit. Emperors got deposed and the country got conquered every 150 years or so. Not only that, but their territory was often broken up into smaller kingdoms.
At least the Roman Empire could keep the same government going for about a thousand years.
>>491249
ebin
>>490818
eastern roman empire was the bootlegged version of the original, a couple true romans and the rest non romans.
>>490822
Best post in this thread so far.
>>490836
What's wrong with being a butcher? More honest job than a politician.
>>491310
Not to mention that Mongols and Manchus ruled china for a good portion. Han, the real chinese, spent less than half the time of the imperial eras in charge.
If the Qing are the same as the Zhou then the Roman Emperor is still around because the Pope rules the Church
>>490719
>Byzantine Empire especially after 1000 has barely any connections to original Roman Empire
>>490761
>Byzantine Empire was interrupted by Fourth Crusade. Continuity is lost there.
>>490806
>are you seriously retarded?
>how can someone ever consider this still a continuous Roman Empire
>this fucking "empire" lost it is core city, core region, but also lost it is replacement (constantinople)
>that's pathetic
>after Fourth Crusade
>internal Greek circlejerk not "Roman" at all and actually not any "Empire" at all
All I've done is quote you and completely dismantled your argument. First, you move the goalpost from the supposed lack of continuity between the Roman and Byzantine empires to the idea that the state that emerged from the restoration of the Byzantine empire following its capture by the Catholics during the Fourth Crusade is, somehow, fundamentally different than the Byzantine empire that existed before the 13th century. After moving the goalpost and having your next goalpost deconstructed, you proceeded to use ad hominem and name-calling against the other person to connect the idea of a Byzantine continuation of the Roman empire to ignorance and a preconceived Greek-centric attitude.
If you actually take a look at the sticky, it says, "a high level of discourse is expected." There could be an easy case made to get you banned from /his/. Watch yourself, shitposter.
If you want to argue that Rome ended when they lost Constantinople in the 4th Crusade then you can't go and say China had an 'empire' that laster 4000+ years when it fragmented or got conquered by nomads every few centuries.
>>491476
Interestingly, the Russian empire claimed the title of Third Rome. According to them, the court of the Byzantines was moved by the successor of Palaiologos to Muscovy. The Finns claim that their government is the Fourth Rome because the bulk of the White Army moved to Finland and joined the Finnish government following the fall of the Russian empire.
>>491241
>falling for actual memes
>>491493
And the King of Spain owns the rights to the title of Emperor through some convoluted exchanges
>>490761
>Byzantine Empire was interrupted by Fourth Crusade. Contuinity is lost there.
>Contuinity is lost there.
>Chinese Empire 4000+.
>>491310
This, holy shit. The Roman Empire had continuity of government. The government instituted by Augustus lasted until the moment Constantine XI removed his armor and called it a day, and even a little longer.
The "Chinese Empire" outright ceased existing for huge periods of time. I don't mean "Crusaders showed up and everyone moved to Nicea". The entire Imperial structure just left the building. Rome, on the other hand, didn't give up the ghost until 1453, and that's the Imperial government. Local and devolved governments (not vassals - actual bits of the Empire itself) lasted until 1467, when Mistras finally ate it.
>>490822
Added to which even if you ignore that, China has spent more time divided into warring states than it has spent unified. One of the paradoxes of Chinese history. They consider unification to be the natural state, but it has been the exception.
>>490584
>Roman Empire ruled by Latins
>Gets conquered by Germans
>Continuity ends
>Song Empire ruled by Han
>Gets conquered by Mongols
>Continuity continues
>Gets conquered by Manchus
>Continuity continues
Well yeah, I guess you can say whatever you want when you treat different civilizations with different rules.
>>491761
>WRE continuity ends
fixed that for you
>>491493
>The Finns claim that their government is the Fourth Rome because the bulk of the White Army moved to Finland and joined the Finnish government following the fall of the Russian empire.
>>490621
Western lasted until 1918 you cuck.
>>490676
Why? I thought it was pretty effective most of the time. The Ming wall kept the hordes out for almost 300 years.
>>490584
>Chinese Empire
>>490584
I thought the Qing Dynasty was ruled by Manchurians who forced native Chinese to adopt Li Mu Bai's hairstyle.
>>491884
Is this real?
>>490584
Yeah and in those 500 years it managed to become the single most importante state to ever have existed in history.
What did the chinks accomplished? Gunpowder? Useless walls?
>>490667
John Green pls
>>490669
the roman kingdom was founded in 750 BC
