How large could "Europe" have been?
In other words, would it have been possible, had things gone differently, for parts of North Africa or the Middle East to be considered European, culturally?
How do you know it won't enlarge in the future?
>>489466
Well considering how those regions were all owned by Europe at one point and still retained their own unique cultures and languages, no, European culture has spread as far as it ever will. However, Europe will continue to influence non European nations in ways that allow non European countries to retain their traditions.
>Implying there isn't a continuity between Europe and Asia
>Falling for imperialist memes this hard
>>489485
Hellenism and Romans were pretty successful in assimilating non-European lands.
>>489466
No. But european identity as we know it could be different or not even exist.
>>489466
Middle east+north africa are closer to Europe than asia and africa tbqh.
>>489466
If the Vandals stayed in North Africa and held off against Muslim conquests, North Africa would definitely be considered European. Same for Anatolia if the Byzantines held control.
Also, Caucasian culture should definitely be considered Eastern European.
>>489571
No, it wouldn't. They would be considered african and asian, respectively. We would just be using different terms for blacks and yellows since african and asian would not make them different enough.
>>489497
At a time when populations were much smaller and national and religious ties weren't as strong.
>>489466
>>489571
This thread is stupid. Just because an area gets absorbed into European culture it doesn't make them geographically part of Europe. Do you consider Canada, the USA, and Australia as part of Europe too? Do you consider the western part of Turkey to not be a part of Europe?
Remember that the Africa/Asia/Europe divide has existed since ancient times and has more or less stayed the same, the only difference being Europe extended slightly because Russians got butthurt that they weren't considered European.
>>489497
no they weren't.
>>489545
no they aren't.
>>489497
Romans sure but Alexander the cuck not so much. What I was saying is that European colonialism has been tried basically everywhere and nearly every once-European colony has returned to their traditional endemic culture
I assume the rise of Islam helped to stop it. The roman provinces in the Holy Land might slowly have been colonized and eventually brought into line with the rest of Europe, and the same for Northern Africa, but Islam pushed the Arab conquest back against the Europeans
>>489545
Middle East is in Asia you fucking mongrel.
All west of persia
>>489479
If it does it won't be "European" in any conventional sense of the word. It'll be mostly Arab and west asian
>>489466
Sure, if they had stayed Christian maybe. If you look at the caucasus, which is geographically non-european, people still consider them european to some extent, because of the prevalence of Christianity.
>>489620
>We would just be using different terms
I think this is the dumbest thing I've ever read.
It's just like we don't call these people asian, right?
The truth is, Europe's borders weren't reduced by outside forces - they were reduced by the people in Europe wanting to talk about who they could reasonably expect to deal with in a civilized fashion.
Europeans stopped talking about North Africa when they realized they didn't give a shit about anyone there, and the Barbary coast couldn't stand against any contemporaneous force. At that point, they weren't countries, they were colonies.
Eastern Europe is only considered part of Europe by grace of the Hapsburgs thinking it was their back yards. If not for that, and Gavrilo Princep's contribution to European politics, they would be considered a cradle region for Greecian thought, the same way Mesopotamia is considered a cradle region for city building and agriculture.
>>490453
>Romans sure but Alexander the cuck not so much.
are you a fucking imbecile, Romans got their culture from the Greeks, in particular hellenism that Alexander propagated and spread through his campaigns, and his generals continued.
In times of peace, rivers are highways. In times of war, rivers are moats.
The Mediterranean is no exception. Had Christians held onto North Africa, or had Muslims taken Mediterranean Europe, the two shores would be considered part of the same territory.
The biggest exception to this is China, but then most of their waterways were artificial, so they required a bureaucracy to maintain them. You don't need this to keep the Med navigable.
Europe is a subcontinent, like India. Agreed?
>>489479
Because it's shrinking right now.
