Why do Muslims (I see it in Turkish news all the time) appropriate the explicitly Christian term "martyr", which absolutely excludes people who die in combat, and apply it to people who die in combat? I'm not trying to shit on Islam or anything, but this really rustles my jimmies. You can't be a martyr if you die in the act of killing people, full stop.
Martyr is just the English translation, it's called Shaheed in arabic
>>469292
In Arabic, a martyr is termed Shahid. Shahid appears in the Quran in a variety of contexts, including witnessing to righteousness, witnessing a financial transaction and being killed, even in an accident as long as it doesn't happen with the intention to commit a sin, when they are believed to remain alive making them witnesses over worldly events without taking part in them anymore (Quran 3:140). The word also appears with these various meanings in the hadith, the sayings of Muhammad. The Greek origin of the word also means 'witness.'
>>469321
This. If you don't know Arabic, you need English translations. If you use English translations, you're gonna get some overlap of terminology.
>>469292
>He thinks that martyrdom belongs to Christianity.
The concept of martyrdom exists in Judaism, and it does include those who die in combat; those who died in the siege of Yodfat and Masada are considered to be martyrs. It's only natural that the idea was inherited by both Christianity and Islam. Actually, the idea of dying for a religion or ideology has probably existed for as long as humans had the ability to conceive of abstract concepts.
So, OP it looks like you're the one trying to appropriate the concept of martyrdom, aren't you? :^)
>>469360
If we start using the arabic word for every religious term, every news report you watch will demand at least a reasonable understanding of islamic theology. Too much to ask of the average watcher.
Yes, muslims oppose killing. Specifically the killing of innocents. The murder of a single innocent is equated to the murder of the entire human race. Saving a single innocent is equated to saving the entire human race.
>>469380
The word "Martyr" literally comes from Saint Justin Martyr
>>469384
News broadcasters in America don't call everyone who dies in combat a martyr, that's strictly something Muslims new sources do, and to be frank, using it that way makes Muslims sound like fanatics.
Are Muslims ethics consequentialist?
>>469402
>The word "Martyr" literally comes from Saint Justin Martyr
But that's entirely untrue.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=martyr
>>469402
Why don't you read about what Shaheed means and learn some things about Islam instead of just being a complete dipshit?
>>469402
I wouldn't call them necessarily consequentialist. The basis, ultimately, for islamic ethics is the Qur'an, which in and of itself is a holy text directly written by Allah. This makes it so that the commandments described therein(very in depth in classical arabic) are absolute. Whether we understand them or not, they are as they are.
That does not mean that we can't derive some understanding of system or reason behind them through careful study. I would say that some of the ethics have a consequentialist dimension, but I wouldn't say that's all there is to it.
>>469360
Dying while killing in the name of allah is the greatest good deed. You directly go to heaven without any arbitration if you die in combat.
t. ex religious muslim
>>469384
but isn't every non muslim guilty? making that point quite moot when you can accuse everyone of being a bad muslim at best.
>>470307
>isn't every non muslim guilty
No.
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: Oh you who turn away
I do not worship what you worship,
nor do you worship what I worship.
And I will not worship what you worship,
Nor will you worship what I worship.
Your way is yours, and my way is mine.
Surah 109, al kafirun
>>469384
But who is innocent by their terminology/definition/understanding/etc?
>>469360
>implying the media doesn't go out of its way to refer to Allah as God
>>470416
Depends on the group, groups like ISIS think everyone in the west are guilty for the middle east's problems.
>>470416
According to Quran, anyone who does not raise arms against you.
>>470470
Then how can you justify muslim conquest of all me+na?
>>470470
>does not raise arms against you
That is a very vague definition. Does not specify conditions/reasons at all. Just like most stuff in most religion.
>>470590
too rigid definitions wouldn't work IRL in various different situations, places, times etc.
>>470590
Its purposefully like that so the rulers can specify what is to be considered "raise arms against you". It could mean not adhering to the rule of Allah and his messengers, It could mean not giving tax to the muslims because of your religion, it could mean not converting to islam and etc. The arbitrary nature of the definition allows Islam to thrive in all situations with whatever matter they see reasonable.
The more "liberal" muslim could take a more liberal definition, the hardliners would see just about every non-muslims (or not following the hardliner's specific sect) as not-innocent and an insult to Allah.
Muslim religion is malleable enough that you can get technicality by saying its a "religion of peace"
>>470316
That really doesn't answer anything, it's just a general statement about people believe different things.
>>469384
>muh all mankind
Fuck off with that, 5:32 explicitly says that that line is for Jews, which is pretty obvious since it was lifted from the Torrah. But you know that, because you're a disingenuous apologist. There may be actually be lines in the Quran that condemn murder, but it sure as hell isn't that one.
>>470470
How ironic for barbarian inbred cowards who only attack when they outnumber people.
>>469292
>>469402
>Turks
Turkish guy studying Byzantine History. I think I understand what you mean.
In Turkey "Martyr" has a different meaning, It is almost exclusively people who die defending their country. You don't have to be religious (or even muslim as many atheist also use that term) or a soldier to earn the title. It has less to do with radical islam and more to do with nationalism.
>>470607
Well, apparently, there have to be relatively rigid definitions, otherwise bullshittery like this >>470620 happens.
Definitions and exclusions and exceptions have to be clearly defined, otherwise one can twist just about anything to whatever end one desires, usualy for worse for everyone but for one who does the twisitng.
>>470759
This. Even commies here call their dead "şehit" which is translated as matyr.
>>470759
>nationalism
more like militarist culture
>>470936
Like he said, nationalism
>>471570
"şehit" is a word used by and for everyone in Turkey. Nationalists, Islamists, communists, Kurds, liberals etc
It's a more of a cultural thing than ideological.
>>469292
why do Christian use the term "God" for their deity when it was originally used to describe pagan dirties?
